THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby 82_28 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:58 am

The only thing 82_28 is insincerely imitating is his lack of flattery. I dig you and always have. You're just missing the point. I see Jack's. I see Willow's. I see yours. You guys are missing myriad points as well which 82_28 happens to think are more compelling. See how easy that was? I accidentally used the first person for a number of "sentences".

I don't give a fuck about OP ED any more than I do Hannah Montana. Names. Just names. Yet I can count very few who count OP ED as some person during formative years they call upon for wisdom and guidance in the interest of being free from Hannah Montana. No, it will go the other way and in a way the the not "progressive" or "liberal" OP ED probably wants to see. Why? Because I think at heart OP ED is more than likely a decent person. However this is with one glaring exception, and only OP ED knows the answer to that one. The answer is that there isn't one. But OP ED does not know anymore than 82_28 knows. 82_28 while not even remotely flattering OP ED with flattery is saying I DO NOT KNOW and this is why I feel we should be more careful where you say you do know.

The whole of planet Earth isn't just one Burning Man or Dead tour made for children unless we make it so. The VMAs are trying to be that which means nothing to me as I never went to or Dead show, nor have I or will I attend a Burning Man and nor will I ever tune into a "VMA". However, others do and they are not us. They are them. They are a target for media. God and baby Jesus, do the math.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby OP ED » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:15 am

i really just didn't understand very much of that. and i mean this in the grammatical sense not the philosophical.

maybe time for a nap.
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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby 82_28 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:57 am

OP ED » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:15 am wrote:i really just didn't understand very much of that. and i mean this in the grammatical sense not the philosophical.

maybe time for a nap.


Perhaps it's time for OP ED to think about getting into the industry and art of condescension and the ability for 82_28 to nap is 82_28's strong trait. 82_28 only has the powers of irony and using it for deep seriousness. OP ED seems to not understand what 82_28 said above which means 82_28 has done 82_28's job.

Any time condescension is resorted to to a post made by 82_28 it means 82_28's point was made. Incidentally this is because you're not getting my point and that's my point. I invite you to, as 82_28 recommends,

A: Not take this seriously

B: Take it seriously

This whole goddamn thread is about taking serious shit not seriously, yet serious enough to provoke 82_28 to detect something seriously wrong with our undergirding themes we hold dear as entities upon Earth. I will close in saying that you started it OP ED as far as this branch in line of thought. Perhaps it's time for OP ED to wake up as opposed to nap? Only a recommendation from someone wide awake.

All told. I couldn't give a fuck less about Cyrus. I do however give a fuck about the message it sends and as per the OP to many people who do not have a choice yet in how they conduct themselves insofar as controlling what others think in order to FIT IN. Also, don't condescend me. Thanks. It's not "not time for a nap". I know everyone is always better than everybody else. But no, they're not. Use your souls homies, not your egos. Just a recommendation from 82_28.

I sincerely hope I "got back" at you sufficiently in 82_28's defense of how 82_28 feels in this matter. Thanks, but you're wrong and 82_28 is not right.
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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby OP ED » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:02 pm

actually i was saying that OP ED needed a nap. recovering from a supremely irritating work week and a rather nasty infection that came with a lot of pain. also i'd been up for more than a day at that point.

on to the stuff:


do however give a fuck about the message it sends and as per the OP to many people who do not have a choice yet in how they conduct themselves insofar as controlling what others think in order to FIT IN.


what message does it send?

that sex is okay? that songs about sex are common? that adult females are (or at least should be) permitted to express their sexual feelings in any way they choose? that popstars with very little talent in voice or dance can increase their revenues by doing so in public?

who are these people that "do not have a choice yet in how they conduct themselves"..?

if children, why are they permitted to watch late nite cable television?

if this is unavoidable, what is the major concern about sex here?

some humans seem to be the only creatures greatly disturbed by sex and possessing of a desire to hide basic facts of human nature from their offspring. this cripples them in the long run and constitutes little better than delayed emotional abuse on the part of those attempting to "protect" them from information that chickens and rabbits consider common knowledge.

this is foreign to me. when i was young (i always thought i was 6, but last year my mother told the story to my wife and i was 5, and she's probably right) i was interested in sex. just for purely informational purposes. adults seemed obsessed with it, yet no one would tell me anything useful. so i looked it up in the encyclopedia. i got as far as the word "umbilicus" before i encountered something i couldn't pronounce or rationalize. [still my favorite word] it was only at this point that i received aid in my sexual education from my parents, who wrongly believed i wasn't ready for this information. this information, rather than harming me, allowed me to make much more sense of a plethora of human interactions which were previously foreign to my intellect. [they continued to be foreign to my experience for another dozen years or so] no distress resulted from this information. it was not inherently dangerous even considering that it had illustrations accompanying the text. if it had been, it would not have been contained in a book that every child my age would've had access to the next year when they began proper schooling.

whereas many of us are raised to be slightly naive enough to be severely damaged by the star-worship, american dreamish nonsense foisted happily upon children with the consent of their parents by horseshit like Hannah Montana.

the real guilt is with parents who didn't boycott this institutionalized lying and propagandizing of their children back before Miley Cyrus even had a music career. if they'd done this, our culture would have saved millions of dollars wasted on useless brands and never would need have witnessed nor discussed this poor, obviously inexperienced (sheltered like most rich kids, i'd imagine) young woman embarrassing herself onstage.
...


if teenagers or adults, why the concern over exposing them to secondhand vanilla sexual innuendoes?

[by the time i was Miley's age, i'd already done much dirtier things with, um, well, lots of girls (you wouldn't believe me if i told you) many of them somewhat younger than Cyrus]

why should controlling what others think in order to "FIT IN".... be a priority for any rational being?

[also, what exactly does that even mean?]
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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby brainpanhandler » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:17 pm

OP ED » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:15 am wrote:i really just didn't understand very much of that. and i mean this in the grammatical sense not the philosophical.


Absent the grammatical the philosophical is pretty hard to understand as well. This is a road that leads nowere (and everywhere!).

But it amuses me.

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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby nashvillebrook » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:55 pm

Haven't read every post in this 14-page thread...haven't spent any time on this "issue" -- but I'm kinda puzzled that so few people see this as a young woman's rebellion against sexuality imposed on her that she's rejecting. It seems fairly obvious to me, and it follows the path that many of my friends at that age followed. There's nothing "sexy" about it. It's the opposite of sex. It's a big FU to the whole culture that objectifies and expects a specific kind of sexuality.

I think it's a variety of "owning" sexuality, but it's not Madonna's "sex-positive" thing. It's like she's saying, "I don't like you. I'm not going to do what you say. And if you try to get all up in my shit, I've got a giant foam finger waiting for you."

It seems obvious to me.
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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby Laodicean » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:50 pm

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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:22 pm

nashvillebrook » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:55 pm wrote:Haven't read every post in this 14-page thread...haven't spent any time on this "issue" -- but I'm kinda puzzled that so few people see this as a young woman's rebellion against sexuality imposed on her that she's rejecting. It seems fairly obvious to me, and it follows the path that many of my friends at that age followed. There's nothing "sexy" about it. It's the opposite of sex. It's a big FU to the whole culture that objectifies and expects a specific kind of sexuality.

I think it's a variety of "owning" sexuality, but it's not Madonna's "sex-positive" thing. It's like she's saying, "I don't like you. I'm not going to do what you say. And if you try to get all up in my shit, I've got a giant foam finger waiting for you."

It seems obvious to me.


I thought something like this years ago when she was whatever age at the time and during contract negotiations with Disney there was suddenly a story about her instead considering an offer to advertise for a condom brand. Disney signed. That girl plays hardball.

This guy's thinking something similar, but, ahem, genius?


http://blog.sfmoma.org/2013/09/stop-hat ... ley-cyrus/

Stop Hating on the Genius of Miley Cyrus
September 2, 2013 | By Chris Cobb
Filed under: Essay, Projects/Series

Most people don’t realize just how much Miley Cyrus has been suffocating under the international brand built by the Disney Corporation. Remember – they portrayed her as an innocent, apple pie-loving, American wonder child that could do no wrong.

They invested millions upon millions of dollars in that wholesome purity, in the middle class fantasy – that you can go anywhere in this country if you just roll up your sleeves and work hard.

That’s a lot of pressure to be putting on a little girl. Yet under Disney’s big black boot she didn’t even have a real name, just the brand name Hannah Montana, which was chosen because it rhymes.

In 2008, her TV series had a global audience of 200 million viewers. According to the Daily Dispatch: by February 2008, the Hannah Montana franchise had become so important that Disney convened an “80-person, all-platform international meeting to discuss Hannah Montana’s future.” All Disney business segments were represented at the meeting.

For years they had her touring around the country with a band, playing music she didn’t even write (Miley Cyrus is no Taylor Swift!). All along the way she was fawned over and guided by her horrible-in-every-way country music star father, Billy Ray Cyrus. Then, like other young women who have been forced to sacrifice their childhoods for early fame, she faced an identity crisis.

And let’s face it, Disney didn’t want to sexualize their child star too much, since advertisers wouldn’t go for it and it would contaminate the image they’d created. Besides, did anybody really want to see a burned-out, drug addicted 35 year old Hannah Montana? O.K. maybe some people might have – but my point is that her fans were growing up too, and her very future depended on retaining those fans and hopefully finding a way to get more.

To rebrand meant she could potentially become a genuine crossover act. Yet frustratingly, everyone still was associating her with the old brand – the tween child star. So what could she do?

Obviously she had to erase that association in the minds of her fans, many of whom dared not to think carnal thoughts about the young girl she portrayed as Hannah Montana. And it’s exactly for that reason she almost had to do what she did at the MTV Video Music Awards. Her dirty dancing and portrayal of sex acts on stage gave her fans permission to see her as a woman.

But while Miley who gets all the humiliation and public shaming, Robin Thicke, her bump-and-grind dance partner, is a married man and hardly got any criticism at all. He can be a horn dog and dirty dance with 20 year old Miley but it’s her that should be ashamed of what God gave her? Can we say double standard?

Remember – no matter how desperate, coked-up and slutty she appeared to be on stage, people should recall that she is an actress and it was just a performance. And really – if her goal was to change how people thought of her, it worked.

So even as the media freaked out at how she stuck her face in the rear end of an oversized teddy bear and seemed to like it, she was getting some extreme twitter love. Forbes said :“Cyrus’ performance spurred a massive wave of 306,100 tweets per minute.” Which totally crushed the VMA’s from last year. By comparison the Presidential election night last year saw a peak of 327,452 tweets per minute.

So in marketing terms that dirty dance was a success.

Least we forget – Miley Cyrus is also worth $150 million, so there’s a lot of peoples’ jobs riding on her being freak of the month.

Who knows – maybe that American myth is true after all – if you roll up your sleeves (or strip down to flesh-colored vinyl bra and camel toe panties) and work hard (get sweaty with dancing bears under hot stage lights), then anything really is possible.
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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby OP ED » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:42 pm

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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby divideandconquer » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:49 pm

Oh please, you really think Miley Cyrus is behind any of this? Really? She's a pawn, that's all. Just like all the rest of the Hollywood sex kittens. Comparing Marilyn Manson and Miley Cyrus is like comparing walnuts to ball-nuts. Little girls are not watching Marilyn Manson.

You do know that Hollywood is the propaganda arm of the military industrial complex, right? So yeah, what comes out of Hollywood is very much connected to the agenda of the MIC/RMA/whateverthefuck. Every generation has been degraded a little bit more as the envelope is pushed, and a little bit more and a little bit more until anything goes. Yesterday, it was Elvis hips...today, it's a little girl's "idol" all grown up sniffing the but of a giant negro woman with a giant menstrual blood soaked foam finger...tomorrow, it's the little girl's idol not all grown up licking the ass of a giant negro woman with a real menstrual blood soaked finger . They want easily managed, degraded and perverted simpletons, and apparently they've succeeded.

If you read Bertrand Russell, Julian Huxley's contributions to UNESCO, you'll see how promoting promiscuity is very much a part of this control gird. Russell and Huxley were given permission to experiment with young children in schools, in ALL kinds of areas including the sexual The idea was to see if they could overstimulate them sexually before they were in puberty with the idea of breaking down the permanent bonding situation. When society is satiated with sexual imagery, it encourages taking it to the next level... how FAR can you go to get a thrill? Lady Gaga takes it a few steps beyond Madonna with her corpse concert' and her soaking in blood http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/ ... -z1u6.html

edit: And here's the thing. No one can stop this shit. I get that. But when intelligent people still believe there is no overall agenda, and that this stuff is just a natural progression of human nature, then it really is hopeless. Awareness of the agenda, and who is behind it, is the only hope. Sexual debauchery is only one part of the dehumanization/desenitization agenda. What's even worse is the escalating promotion of torture/ violence through TV, movies and video games like Call of Duty.

One example was a scene from Sons of Anarchy where a decapitated head is thrown into a pot of chile in order to hide it from the cops, and the chile served up to those same cops. It was supposed to be funny. Then we have serial killer heroes like Dexter, and movies like Law Abiding Citizen, which I found repulsive. People were cheering for the torturer during the torture scene.
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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby justdrew » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:59 pm

rightwing christianist repressive paranoid bullshit. again. as usual. Here's an example of the real deal... these folks were well outside the 'control matrix'...

Angry mob castrates Papua New Guinea’s cult leader ‘Black Jesus’
By Agence France-Presse | Monday, September 2, 2013 7:59 EDT

An infamous Papua New Guinea cult leader known as “Black Jesus” was castrated by an angry mob after being hacked to death for killing young girls as sacrifices, reports said Monday.

Steven Tari, a convicted rapist who was suspected of cannibalism, was killed in a remote PNG village last week, with gory details of his death emerging.

The National newspaper said he was hunted down by 80 men, killed, castrated and then dragged with a cane tied around his neck to a shallow pit where his body was dumped.

Tari had been on the run since escaping from a prison in Madang in the Pacific nation’s east during a mass break-out with 48 others in March.

His corpse was dug up by police, prison and health workers on Friday. Juith Gawi, a doctor at Modilion Hospital, said he had multiple knife wounds.

“He was chopped and slashed with bush knives on both arms and legs, chest and stomach which revealed his intestines. He was also castrated,” Gawi said.

Tari, a failed Lutheran pastor who was widely known as Black Jesus, was found guilty in 2010 of raping girls who belonged to his Christian-based sect and sentenced to up to 10 years.

At the time, he had thousands of village followers, including a core of armed warriors to protect him, in what is commonly referred to in PNG as a “cargo cult”.

As part of his “culture ministry”, he preached that young girls were to be “married” to him as it was God’s prophecy.

The National said villagers where he was hiding became fed up with cult beliefs and practices, which included “the killing of young girls as sacrifices”.

Local police official Ray Ban said Tari and his followers offered Rose Wagum, 15, last week as a “sacrifice”. She was found with stab wounds and reportedly died of blood loss.

The group also tried to offer another 14-year-old girl but were stopped by the mob which eventually killed Tari.

The National said Wagum’s aunt was the first known “flower girl” for Tari and found young virgins for him, and it was she who took her niece to his camp to be sacrificed.

Ban said at least one other girl was still missing.

“Tari is dead and this cult worship dies with him,” he said.

“Stop this worship now. If I hear any more cult worship here, I will return with my men.”

When he was captured in 2007, there were widespread allegations that Tari’s cult also practised cannibalism along with sacrificial blood rituals, but police only charged him with rape.

PNG is a sprawling nation where black magic, sorcery and cannibalism sometimes occur.

Last year police, also in the Madang region, arrested dozens of people linked to an alleged cannibal cult accused of killing at least seven people, eating their brains raw and making soup from their penises.

There have been several other recent cases linked to cults, witchcraft and cannibalism, with a man in 2011 reportedly found eating his screaming, newborn son during a sorcery initiation ceremony.

In 2009, a young woman was stripped naked, gagged and burnt alive at the stake in the Highlands town of Mount Hagen.

And two years earlier police clashed with members of a cult suspected of human sacrifices in the remote province of Morobe.

In that incident, police were investigating reports of several murders in which people were decapitated, with their heads impaled on stakes and paraded around.
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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby OP ED » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:23 pm

divideandconquer » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:49 pm wrote:Oh please, you really think Miley Cyrus is behind any of this? Really? She's a pawn, that's all. Just like all the rest of the Hollywood sex kittens. Comparing Marilyn Manson and Miley Cyrus is like comparing walnuts to ball-nuts. Little girls are not watching Marilyn Manson.


yes, i think Miley Cyrus is at least central to this. women can make decisions for themselves nowadays. they even had a name for it back when it happened. i'm sure google or wikipedia could teach you about it.

its almost too obvious of you to assume she's a "pawn" though. i took her "debauchery" as rather her way of demonstrating that she has become tired of being a pawn.

[also, you really need to stop saying "debauchery" all the time. it keeps making me laugh and i almost spilled my coffee that time]

and of course little girls don't watch Marilyn Manson anymore. he's old now.

but there were several girls, aged about 13-16 in the room with me when i watched that broadcast in the nineties when Manson was still cool, they're all 30ish today, mostly with children of their own, but they were jailbait at the time. they were OP ED's dreamgirls back then, jailbait yes, but so was OP ED, and they were ultracool postgoth witchy jailbait.

[i'd happily tell you about all the things that happened after the award show ended, but jesus would probably be mad at you for reading the lurid details]

You do know that Hollywood is the propaganda arm of the military industrial complex, right?



yes. i got along excellently with Hugh before he was banned.
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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:49 pm

divideandconquer, this gets tedious. You're diligent enough to link a boring tabloid story making fake outrage about Lady Gaga, but you omit to clarify or back up your fairly astounding insinuation that Huxley and Russell ran "sexual" experiments on children for the UN! You mention this unsubstantiated stuff, but what about the generations of Catholic priests who were actually caught committing hundreds of child rapes on a systematic basis with cover from the Church? The real history of child brides and molesting children stretches through most societies back to the earliest known people, and of course organized religions such as Christianity have been very big in justifying and protecting such behavior. It originates as a subset of patriarchy, not the modern "control matrix" of the Pentagon. Apparently that doesn't fit into your narrative of rejecting all modernity since at least the French Revolution. In the modern world it's usually fucked-up religionists and respectable conservatives who run pedophile rings, not liberals promoting what you call "promiscuity" on TV. And since (due to "liberal" ideas of individual rights) it is no longer acceptable as public behavior, it is done behind a facade of propriety and conservatism, and is enabled by the prudish refusal to allow sex as a public subject.

You say, "Every generation has been degraded a little bit more as the envelope is pushed, and a little bit more and a little bit more until anything goes." This statement is evidence of your sickness. It really is, because based on this thread, clearly what you mean has nothing to do with increased sadism or criminality since whatever halcyon days you're conjuring in your fantasy, but mainly with the increased display of sexuality in public. (Which I'm not even calling a good thing in itself.)

You do know that Hollywood is the propaganda arm of the military industrial complex, right? So yeah, what comes out of Hollywood is very much connected to the agenda of the MIC/RMA/whateverthefuck.


I know megatons more about this subject than you do. This is where the tedium is really kicking in with you. You don't indicate you know or have read shit about shinola, outside some sub-Alex Jones sites. RI is a place where several members present real scholarship, or (lets not exaggerate it) at least raw research in a scholarly mode, plus a lot of great cut-and-paste. It's not a bad place for you to look for superior material than whatever you're getting at JohnBirchSundaySchool.com.

Yesterday, it was Elvis hips...today, it's a little girl's "idol" all grown up sniffing the but of a giant negro woman with a giant menstrual blood soaked foam finger...tomorrow, it's the little girl's idol not all grown up licking the ass of a giant negro woman with a real menstrual blood soaked finger . They want easily managed, degraded and perverted simpletons, and apparently they've succeeded.


Such a small and dirty mind. You are disgusting. It's honest that you're now owning the hateful rhetoric you've so far endorsed implicitly.
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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby DrVolin » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:37 pm

Let's keep it to the arguments and leave the personal morals of the posters out of it.
all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

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Re: THE PSEUDO-SACRIFICIAL "SLUTTING" OF HANNAH MONTANA

Postby conniption » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:48 pm

Captain Kirk watches Miley Cyrus performance

1:31 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6Lb3kFwJRQ
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