Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:19 am

And there are no data that I know of that suggest that outdoor transmission amongst strangers is even occurring, especially amongst asymptomatic individuals.


In what places is this a reasonable concern? I keep seeing this brought up in this thread in various ways, this thing about how forcing folks to wear masks outdoors while social distancing is a step too far. Where is that happening? Maybe I'm not looking in the right place, but I have yet to see any actual recommendation from health officials that one needs wear a mask while outside with proper distance. In fact, the half-assed solution in places like NYC and LA has been to designate new areas to allow outdoor dining, and as far as the US goes, those cities are at the top of most restrictive measures in the country.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:36 pm

https://covid19.ca.gov/masks-and-ppe/

It’s now required that everyone in California must wear a mask or face covering when outside of their home, with limited exceptions.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:07 pm

From the above link. So no, you're not required to wear mask outside if social distancing.

Individuals are excepted from wearing a mask when:

...
Outdoors and maintaining at least 6 feet of social distance from others not in their household. You must have a face covering with you at all times and must put it on if you are within 6 feet of others who are not in your household.
...
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:08 pm

stickdog99 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:36 am wrote:https://covid19.ca.gov/masks-and-ppe/

It’s now required that everyone in California must wear a mask or face covering when outside of their home, with limited exceptions.


The exceptions are quite broad and practical. Perhaps one should read and understand what they post prior to making the post?

This is simple folks. :wink
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:16 pm

.

"Required to wear" will vary by State, but to me, it's just as concerning when the majority of people step outside in the elements and foolishly believe wearing a cloth mask outdoors, while keeping distance, or even when walking past a fellow pedestrian in close proximity, will help in any way.

That's NOT "science". That's falling prey to propaganda and misleading info.

Where do you live, mentalgungfu? Do you see many wearing masks outdoors where you live (assuming you regularly step outside)?

I'm in Portsmouth, NH this weekend, and am quite surprised to see the majority of folks wearing masks outdoors while walking around. Many of them may be visiting from cities with more overt control measures in place, like Boston, however, since it's a holiday weekend.

In NYC, most wear masks outside, even when jogging, absurd as it is. I can at least understand why one may opt to wear a mask in a more urban area.

I currently live about 25 miles north of NYC -- in NJ -- and very few wear masks when walking/jogging/biking outside, though it's generally less congested than in a city area.

When my brother/mother visited Denver a few months back, the majority wore masks outdoors at all times.

When I went to Wisconsin earlier this year on a business trip, fewer wore masks outdoors.

(As i've mentioned before, i never wear a mask outdoors, nor have any members of my family and some friends. I've no objection with others wearing masks if they opt to do so. I OBJECT strongly to mask mandates.

I also strongly object to the propagation of bad science, spreading false notions to the public Re: cloth mask efficacy, particularly when outdoors.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby dada » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:48 pm

But doesn't the argument - wearing a mask outside is falling prey to propaganda and misleading info - rest on the unspoken assertion that the outside mask-wearers are participating in some sort of cult ritual that they are unaware of? Tricked into a symbolic gesture of submission to Bill Gates?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:42 pm

Now tell me where is the scientific evidence that buttresses the following mandates?

https://sf.gov/information/masks-and-fa ... s-pandemic

Wear something to cover your face when you leave your home.

Keep your face covering on at all times, except when eating and drinking.

Face coverings are required when you are in a common area inside a building, even if you’re alone. This includes:

Elevators
Hallways
Stairways
Break rooms
Parking lots

Give yourself enough time to put on a face covering, like when you see someone 30 feet away (about the length of a Muni bus).

You should put on your face covering if you see someone within 30 feet of you (about the length of a Muni bus). That way, both of you will have enough time to put on your face coverings if you get close to each other.
Last edited by stickdog99 on Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby dada » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:54 am

Yes, but what do you think that proves? I mean, what does it say to you?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:22 am

dada » 18 Jan 2021 04:54 wrote:Yes, but what do you think that proves? I mean, what does it say to you?


The road to hell is paved with good intentions?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby dada » Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:21 am

So it's innocent. It isn't part of a psychological operation.

That's good to know. I was starting to think it was a trolling operation against the Donald Trump fan club. The liberal elites saying and doing things just to upset them.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:43 pm

dada » 18 Jan 2021 14:21 wrote:So it's innocent. It isn't part of a psychological operation.

That's good to know. I was starting to think it was a trolling operation against the Donald Trump fan club. The liberal elites saying and doing things just to upset them.


I think it's the "innocent" response of a professional managerial class that considers working from home, getting deliveries from Amazon and Grubhub, and proscriptions on visiting elderly parents and grandparents as much of a convenience as an inconvenience.

Wearing masks whenever they are outside their rental units working and staying home whenever they are not working is the least that gig workers can do to protect the professional managerial class from COVID-19.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby dada » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:36 pm

So is this professional managerial class response that you are seeing here, a collective action? Or like, once having set the agenda, must the liberal elite rely on the disdain for work and tacit liberal solidarity of the rest of the high class snobs.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:53 pm

Merely to talk of racial disparity or the treatment of immigrants or differential treatment by sex is often denigrated as introducing artificial divisiveness or "identitarianism" among "the people" or within the working class.

On the other hand, using "PMC" as an extremely loose blanket term covering practically everyone living in a city, holding a B.A., and working as a teacher, freelancer or "associate" is a-ok.

EDIT: The above is language critique. Please don't take it as an attack, stickdog. It's more a peeve-level complaint.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:06 pm

.

stickdog99 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:22 am wrote:
dada » 18 Jan 2021 04:54 wrote:Yes, but what do you think that proves? I mean, what does it say to you?


The road to hell is paved with good intentions?


Dada:
So it's innocent. It isn't part of a psychological operation.



I disagree. While it's never so simple as to apply a broad-brush assessment of intent for such a global phenomenon, I've no doubt that at certain levels, there is opportunistic and greed-based intention.

It may be that many, perhaps even most, involved in policy/guidance/implementations over the past ~year had variants of 'good intentions'. As with any pyramid power structure, those below the top won't be privy to details or primary drivers. It's also possible that whatever 'good intentions' were in place in the early weeks shifted over time to more opportunistic power/resource grabs.
(unprecedented average increase in revenue/profit for billionaires in 2020 while working/labor classes and small businesses are/continue to be devastated; politicians leveraging the crisis scenario to pass increasingly draconian laws, etc.; the latter is a recurring pattern throughout history, to be sure).

Whatever the 'true' drivers: whether this crisis was initiated as part of a long-term agenda, or as a recent, and hopefully temporary, opportunistic set of power moves laced with a measure of good intentions -- the results are the same. The People have been, and will continue to be, F#cked for years because of decisions made by those in power coupled with the (thus far) subservient acceptance by the majority (perhaps due in large part to their continued internal dialogue that it will soon pass... many refuse to contemplate the nefarious implications of any other scenario than "good intentions/temporary govt overreach").

If it turns out, in the next ~12 months, that current [egregiously excessive] measures are largely scaled back; that those in positions of power/authority acknowledge overreach, and that we revert to a more balanced approach, then my intuition/researched take on this will likely be [THANKFULLY] wrong, and y'all can berate me repeatedly, indefinitely.

Important caveat: if measures are indeed scaled-down in the coming ~year, only to be ramped back up (along with stricter, new restrictions) in the not-too-distant future due to a reported resurgence of this virus, or perhaps -- dare I ruminate -- a 'more lethal' version (real or exaggerated), then unfortunately it will only lend more credence to the notion that intentions are not good overall.

If I'm at least partially correct, the People will need to UNSUBSCRIBE to these measures and refuse en masse. Hopefully before too much more devastation.

While I'm here, may as well add a couple links.

First:

Scientists from Duke, Harvard, and Johns Hopkins released findings, titled, "The Long-Term Impact Of The Covid-19 Unemployment Shock On life Expectancy And Mortality Rates". Link here:
https://www.nber.org/system/files/worki ... w28304.pdf

A few excerpts:

...severe economic distress might also have important consequences on human well-being (Gordon and Sommers (2016) and Ruhm (2015)). This shortcoming is arguably explained by the fact that current macroeconomic models do not allow for the possibility that economic activity might affect mortality rates of the agents in the economy.

...

Between late March-early April, most U.S. states imposed stay-at-home orders and lockdowns, resulting in widespread shut down of business. Unemployment rate rose from 3.8% in February 2020 to 14.7% in April 2020 with 23.1 million unemployed Americans. Despite a decline to 6.7% in November 2020,the average unemployment rate over the year is comparable with the 10% unemployment rate at the peak of the 2007-2009 Great Recession and it is near the post-World War II historical maximum reached in the early 1980s (10.8%). Importantly, COVID-19 related job losses disproportionately affect women, particularly of Hispanic heritage; African Americans; foreign born individuals; less educated adults and individuals age 16-24. In fact, the unemployment rate underestimates the extent of the economic contraction as many potential workers have abandoned the workforce (especially women).

...

The long-term effects of the COVID-19 related unemployment surge on the US mortality rate have not been characterized in the literature. Thus, as a last step, we compute an estimate of the excess deaths associated with the COVID-19 unemployment shock. This corresponds to the difference between the number of deaths predicted by the model with and without the unemployment shock observed in 2020. For the overall population, the increase in the death rate following the COVID-19 pandemic implies a staggering 0.89 and 1.37 million excess deaths over the next 15 and 20 years, respectively.

These numbers correspond to 0.24% and 0.37%of the projected US population at the 15- and 20-year horizons, respectively. For African-Americans, we estimate 180 thousand and 270 thousand excess deaths over the next 15 and 20 years, respectively. These numbers correspond to 0.34% and 0.49% of the projected African-American population at the 15- and 20-year horizons, respectively. For Whites, we estimate 0.82 and 1.21 million excess deaths over the next 15 and 20 years, respectively. These numbers correspond to 0.30% and 0.44% of the projected White population at the 15- and 20-year horizons, respectively. These numbers are roughly equally split between men and women.

Overall, our results indicate that, based on the historical evidence, the COVID-19 pandemic might have long-lasting consequences on human health through its impact on economic activity. We interpret these results as a strong indication that policymakers should take into consideration the severe, long-run implications of such a large economic recession on people’s lives when deliberating on COVID-19 recovery and containment measures. ...Policy-makers should therefore consider combining lockdowns with policy interventions meant to reduce economic distress, guarantee access to health care, and facilitate effective economic reopening under health care policies to limit SARS-CoV-19 spread.


And an opinion piece:

https://off-guardian.org/2021/01/18/ant ... xtinction/

One of the most important aspects of aesthetics, of the study of art at all, is that it teaches the viewer or reader how to see and experience more deeply, with more sensitivity, and this in turn (among other things) leads to the ability to recognize the fraudulent. In other words you come to recognize propaganda. It is almost the cultivating of a sub clinical intuitive skill, a sense when a narrative or an image seem counterfeit.

Along with this comes the ability to, at least partly, resist marketing campaigns and advertisers’ manipulations. I have always felt the reading of the classics serve as a teflon shield for advertising.

Art and culture have more profound gifts than just a finely tuned ‘bullshit meter’. But given the events of this last week, and of the entire year, as well, the loss of cultural education keeps coming back to me. The least-enrolled post grad program at U.S. universities is the study of the classics. History is very low, too, for any era. Business management is the most popular.

I often have thought that the loss of such studies today has had a genuinely deleterious effect. Certainly most big search engines, if you google post graduate programs in the classics, will return a variety of links about how such a degree has nearly zero economic reward attached.

This is now about a year into the pandemic and there have still been no debates, no public roundtables and no referendums. Nothing. Just decrees by the government. I honestly have given up trying to make sense of statistics, really. But a couple of things have not changed; the fatality rate if you catch Covid 19 is under 1% (and yes, case fatality is different than infectious mortality and that in turn is different from mortality rate). And depending on how it is being counted, it is often a good deal less than that. And yet the entire planet has been subjected to severe restrictions on travel, and coerced to follow pseudoscientific behaviour like mask wearing and social distancing. Today in many places there is what amounts to martial law. Police or national guard patrol the streets after dark. Many countries have banned public events, closed restaurants and nightclubs, and limited any public gatherings. Many schools remain closed or only partially open.

The economic consequences of these non-debated government policies have been catastrophic. In the U.S. something like 60 million jobs have been lost, many never to return. A hundred and fifty thousand restaurants have gone bankrupt. Only one in three museums will ever reopen. In San Francisco they decided NOT to count the numbers of new homeless. No reason was given but one can guess. The homeless situation in the U.S., in big cities in particular, was critical even before the pandemic. Now the numbers are unprecedented. Not even during the ‘Great Depression’ was there anything like the current level of those without basic shelter.

Food insecurity is at a crisis level. Feeding America, the largest hunger relief organization in the US, estimates over 50 million people go hungry every night including something close to twenty million children.

Since mid-March 2020, numerous surveys have documented unprecedented levels of food insecurity that eclipse anything seen in recent decades in the United States, including during the Great Recession. Over the past five years, US Department of Agriculture (USDA) estimates of food insecurity in the United States have hovered around 11% to 12%.

As of March and April 2020, national estimates of food insecurity more than tripled to 38% In a national survey we fielded in March 2020 among adults with incomes less than 250% of the 2020 federal poverty level (based on thresholds from the US Census), 44% of all households were food insecure including 48% of Black households, 52% of Hispanic households, and 54% of households with children.
American Public Heath Association (Dec 2020)


And yet, congress just passed another defense budget increase. According to Defense News…

the final version of the 2020 defense appropriations bill, part of a broad $1.4 trillion spending deal to finalize federal spending for 2020 and avert a government shutdown. The defense bill would provide $738 billion.


Almost one in three households suffers hunger, regularly. Almost half of black and hispanic households. Households with children are most vulnerable to the government policies. So half of the kids in the U.S. have inadequate nutrition. Half will suffer long term developmental problems, almost guaranteed.


The [lengthy] piece continues at link.


A couple more breadcrumbs.

Image
https://twitter.com/brdlnrs/status/1350770568094769152

Image
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk- ... mic-began/

Quote from the Express & Star article:
Deaths in private homes have been consistently well above the five-year average since April 2020.

While deaths in other settings had fallen below average by summer 2020 – after the end of the first wave of the virus – those in private homes remained above average by between 700 and 900 a week.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby dada » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:42 am

"there is opportunistic and greed-based intention."

Yes, but the exchange was about whether the instructions from the sf government website are part of the grand conspiracy or not.

How far does the reach of my pyramid power structure extend? Is it bound by the law of cause and effect? A skillful manipulation of radiations, like wavelengths propagating in a medium. Or is it limitless now, like a shadow over everything.
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