Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby hiddenite » Fri May 10, 2013 2:23 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:Could be nothing more than a 'retired' cia station chief trying to get publicity for his book.
It could be that simple.


except he's not , as Burnt Hill just demonstrated

also see this , it is the link from the article I mentioned , all the links are on the Chechen thread

http://www.majorhistory.com/interview-brian-glyn-williams.php


Brian Glyn Williams is trying to carve out a niche for himself. As a historian of the War on Terrorism his work straddles the line between history and journalism. As he is quick to point out, history isn’t merely a study of the past, it’s a methodology that Williams adheres to deliberately. “Much of the War on Terror has been chronicled by journalists and political scientists. But historians have been reticent to produce a single narrative.” Williams is poised to give us that single narrative stretching from the years before 9/11 through the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and into the drone campaigns that mark today’s campaign.
Professor Brian Glyn Williams was born and raised in Wales. His interest in history came from what he saw around him, a Great Britain full of history but full of stories told through a foreign experience. “History is written by the victors and the English version of Welsh history predominated. We were the barbarians and they civilized us.” It was that unique perspective that made him look beyond Britain and to the history of the Huns, then Islam, and finally on the Turks. He received his PhD in Middle Eastern and Islamic Central Asian History from the University of Wisconsin. He’s currently a Professor of Islamic History at University of Massachusetts, Dartmouth.
His work has taken him to London to consult with Scotland Yard and to Afghanistan to work for the Central Intelligence Agency. Williams was tasked with helping law enforcement and intelligence agencies understand the motivations and behaviors of suicide bombers. He is of the mind that while Islam is a subtext for much of the violence and terrorism in the region, it’s not the sole explanation. His findings about suicide bombings in Afghanistan were informed by his understanding of tribal identities as much as fervor for the Jihadist movement. He came to these conclusions after being sent to Afghanistan by the CIA to perform firsthand research on these types of attacks. This type of fieldwork is unusual for most academics but especially for historians, who are content to let some time pass before trying to understand it’s role in the narrative.
But Williams is very aware of how different his work is. “It’s sexier to work on these kinds of topics, drones, terrorism. I spent years translating Russian documents in an archive. I said I’d never do that again.” When he began his professional life, very few people cared about Islamic history or the Middle East. But 9/11 changed all that and the job offers came quickly for historians willing to do it. Williams has been published and interviewed for numerous outlets and news agencies.
His work is cutting edge, forcing him to look at the histories of the transnational jihadist movement that caught the world’s attention on September 11, 2001. He follows news of jihadist movements from the Caucasus, Balkans, Central Asia, North Africa, and throughout the Middle East with a zealotry that allows him to discuss at length each region. His opinions are blunt but revealing and not formulated to appeal to those that like equivocations in their academic discourse. Pakistan is playing a double game. The Arab Spring is a disaster for groups like Al Qaeda. Drones are an effective tool in fighting the War on Terror. Williams doesn’t mince his words when discussing things he is clearly very knowledgeable about.
It’s the question of drones and targeted killings that has attracted his attention recently. His next book, Predators: The CIA’s Drone War on Al Qaeda, will focus on the entire history of the drone programs and where this technology is headed. Following that, Williams is working on a history of the entire War on Terror. It seems that the War on Terror and maelstroms in the Middle East will continue to serve as a useful research area for academics. But they’ll have to get in line; Williams is the first one there.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Fri May 10, 2013 2:56 pm

Yeah, it's uhhhh...possibly a red herring, I guess.
I'm possibly the direct descendant of Marcus Aurelius, lol.
But, every fiber of my intuitive being sees it as...

THEIR PANTS, DOWN.

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby hiddenite » Fri May 10, 2013 3:09 pm

So ,once again ,this is Mister Drone

"His work has taken him to London to consult with Scotland Yard and to Afghanistan to work for the Central Intelligence Agency. Williams was tasked with helping law enforcement and intelligence agencies understand the motivations and behaviors of suicide bombers. He is of the mind that while Islam is a subtext for much of the violence and terrorism in the region, it’s not the sole explanation. His findings about suicide bombings in Afghanistan were informed by his understanding of tribal identities as much as fervor for the Jihadist movement. He came to these conclusions after being sent to Afghanistan by the CIA to perform firsthand research on these types of attacks. This type of fieldwork is unusual for most academics but especially for historians, who are content to let some time pass before trying to understand it’s role in the narrative."


And this unusual cutting edge narrator , supporter of drone warfare and insistor in trials of the separation between AlQ and Chechen rebels , just happens to be the mentor for one of the alleged bombers 2 years ago.

At the very least you have to wonder what went through the brothers' heads, when they googled their great uncle and then this fellow . :sarcasm
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby slimmouse » Fri May 10, 2013 3:26 pm

I think Iamwhoiam was refferring to Fullers book. He was a former CIA chief who's also an author.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby hiddenite » Fri May 10, 2013 3:47 pm

slimmouse wrote:I think Iamwhoiam was refferring to Fullers book. He was a former CIA chief who's also an author.



It is not Fuller's book though it is Mister Drone's latest , about drones
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby hiddenite » Fri May 10, 2013 3:57 pm

Fuller's latest book Three truths and a lie or 2 truths whatever, is about his adopted Korean son who died a drug related death aged 21 or 22 and is about drugs, dislocation searching for roots, alienation and the perils of adoption etc etc

The cover has a young man in a grey and white hoodie walking to the horizon on a bleached out path
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Burnt Hill » Fri May 10, 2013 4:00 pm

iamwhomiam did say "retired" and "station chief". Even so I think he meant Williams, Fuller isnt involved otherwise, is he?
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Fri May 10, 2013 4:01 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:Beeline argues that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is guilty because (wait for it...you won't regret it ... .cue drumroll)... he acted so goddam innocent! And if that isn't suspicious, beeline doesn't know what is.


I thought his point was more that their having acted normal wasn't exculpatory.

But if you're saying it's also not probative, I agree.


Anyway, such routine reversal of the burden of proof is now apparently de rigeur for all good liberals on this board and off it,


Where precisely the fuck does that liberal-bashing find its justification?

I have no clue what Beeline's politics are. Or Burnt Hill's.

But fyi, I'm not a liberal.

So please don't take this as an endorsement of the rule of law, but rather as a value-free observation regarding an element of it that you appear to cherish with liberal though misguided fervor:

The burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is a standard that applies exclusively to the state. And not to anybody else. For the reasons I think I gave the last time I explained that..

So it can't be routinely reversed by liberals, pinkos, commies, radicals or -- in short -- any people of any conveniently disparagable political tendency you care to name if they're not charging and prosecuting anyone while acting in their capacities as officers of the court.

It's impossible. Can't be done. The obligation doesn't exist. Accusing people who think he did it of reversing the burden of proof is basically just a way of saying, "I disagree, so it's a shameful and injurious violation of a higher principle for you to speak." Or suggesting it, anyway. It doesn't mean anything else.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby hiddenite » Fri May 10, 2013 4:48 pm

Burnt Hill wrote:iamwhomiam did say "retired" and "station chief". Even so I think he meant Williams, Fuller isnt involved otherwise, is he?


I thought you inserted the link to Williams (mister drone)'s book, someone else transposed the book as having been written by Fuller then I reasserted the thing up above then you came back to clarify what the 2 other people meant . Am I following ? :zomg

When you say Fuller is not involved , is he : do you mean other than being the great uncle and the orchestra leader of the soft islam , sneak in Gulen, separate yourself from the Bush era neocons, but work for the Rand corp sort of a way ?

or do you mean ; someone said Fuller when they meant Williams (mister drone) sort of a way ?

Am confused now
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri May 10, 2013 5:00 pm

compared2what? wrote:
MacCruiskeen wrote:Beeline argues that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is guilty because (wait for it...you won't regret it ... .cue drumroll)... he acted so goddam innocent! And if that isn't suspicious, beeline doesn't know what is.


I thought his point was more that their having acted normal wasn't exculpatory.


Act normal, act abnormal, and they're like whatever, hey, c'mon, he musta had something to do with it, what are you a conspiracy nut or what. In fact nothing whatsoever counts as exculpatory once Mister Source and his Fourth Estate have got their greasy mitts on you. QED.

But if you're saying it's also not probative, I agree.


Jolly good. I am happy that you agree with me that acting normal is at least not proof of guilt.

c2w wrote:
MacCruiskeen wrote:Anyway, such routine reversal of the burden of proof is now apparently de rigeur for all good liberals on this board and off it,


Where precisely the fuck does that liberal-bashing find its justification?


From all over this thread, and from elsewhere, e.g. from the comments box at the ridiculous Huffington Post and [choose your liberal outlet at random]. In fact, in this particular instance, it comes from precisely the line of 8bit's I was quoting and replying to, which you chose (for some reason) to leave out:


MacCruiskeen wrote:
8bitagent wrote:I personally see no reason to think these brothers are "innocent"


No explanation of the scare quotes. Anyway, such routine reversal of the burden of proof is now apparently de rigeur for all good liberals on this board and off it, although any talk of rigour is clearly misplaced. Intuitions, by contrast, are still all the rage:

8bitagent wrote:I definitely believe they were proud in dropping off the bombs and the cambridge/waterton aftermath.


^^That is from where precisely the fuck. HTH.


c2w wrote:I have no clue what Beeline's politics are. Or Burnt Hill's.

But fyi, I'm not a liberal.

So please don't take this as an endorsement of the rule of law, but rather as a value-free observation regarding an element of it that you appear to cherish with liberal though misguided fervor:

The burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is a standard that applies exclusively to the state. And not to anybody else. For the reasons I think I gave the last time I explained that..

So it can't be routinely reversed by liberals, pinkos, commies, radicals or -- in short -- any people of any conveniently disparagable political tendency you care to name if they're not charging and prosecuting anyone while acting in their capacities as officers of the court.

It's impossible. Can't be done. The obligation doesn't exist. Accusing people who think he did it of reversing the burden of proof is basically just a way of saying, "I disagree, so it's a shameful and injurious violation of a higher principle for you to speak." Or suggesting it, anyway. It doesn't mean anything else.


MacCruiskeen wrote:
Christ!! I'm sorry! I thought this was a courtroom! I thought no one was entitled to his opinion!

Sheesh, what came over me? [Note to self: Cut down on the ketamine.]

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Or mom. Whatever. That spanking done me good. I now accept that everyone's opinion about any accused criminal is Totally Valid. Born again, I now wonder what that weirdo Zola was getting so worked up about. He must been some kinda conspiracy nut, or else he was hallucinating and thought he was in a courtroom.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Burnt Hill » Fri May 10, 2013 5:19 pm

hiddenite wrote:
Burnt Hill wrote:iamwhomiam did say "retired" and "station chief". Even so I think he meant Williams, Fuller isnt involved otherwise, is he?


I thought you inserted the link to Williams (mister drone)'s book, someone else transposed the book as having been written by Fuller then I reasserted the thing up above then you came back to clarify what the 2 other people meant . Am I following ? :zomg

When you say Fuller is not involved , is he : do you mean other than being the great uncle and the orchestra leader of the soft islam , sneak in Gulen, separate yourself from the Bush era neocons, but work for the Rand corp sort of a way ?

or do you mean ; someone said Fuller when they meant Williams (mister drone) sort of a way ?

Am confused now

Yes confusing. iamwhomiam mentioned "promoting his book" and I automatically thought of Williams new Drone book and posted it. When I reread iams post he mentioned "retired" and "station chief", so it might appear he meant Fuller.
iam will have to clarify that. As far as Fuller is concerned, I had not heard his name directly relating to the events in Boston, here or anywhere,(doesnt mean it wasnt) thereby questioning his involvement. I am sure that clears things right up! :basicsmile
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby hiddenite » Fri May 10, 2013 5:25 pm

Burnt Hill wrote:
hiddenite wrote:
Burnt Hill wrote:iamwhomiam did say "retired" and "station chief". Even so I think he meant Williams, Fuller isnt involved otherwise, is he?


I thought you inserted the link to Williams (mister drone)'s book, someone else transposed the book as having been written by Fuller then I reasserted the thing up above then you came back to clarify what the 2 other people meant . Am I following ? :zomg

When you say Fuller is not involved , is he : do you mean other than being the great uncle and the orchestra leader of the soft islam , sneak in Gulen, separate yourself from the Bush era neocons, but work for the Rand corp sort of a way ?

or do you mean ; someone said Fuller when they meant Williams (mister drone) sort of a way ?

Am confused now

Yes confusing. iamwhomiam mentioned "promoting his book" and I automatically thought of Williams new Drone book and posted it. When I reread iams post he mentioned "retired" and "station chief", so it might appear he meant Fuller.
iam will have to clarify that. As far as Fuller is concerned, I had not heard his name directly relating to the events in Boston, here or anywhere,(doesnt mean it wasnt) thereby questioning his involvement. I am sure that clears things right up! :basicsmile


Aha yes I am less confused, but about to confuse you, possibly ...Fuller has a daughter ,she used to be married to Uncle Tsarni ...you knew this though ?
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Burnt Hill » Fri May 10, 2013 5:29 pm

Burnt Hill wrote:
hiddenite wrote:
Burnt Hill wrote:iamwhomiam did say "retired" and "station chief". Even so I think he meant Williams, Fuller isnt involved otherwise, is he?


I thought you inserted the link to Williams (mister drone)'s book, someone else transposed the book as having been written by Fuller then I reasserted the thing up above then you came back to clarify what the 2 other people meant . Am I following ? :zomg

When you say Fuller is not involved , is he : do you mean other than being the great uncle and the orchestra leader of the soft islam , sneak in Gulen, separate yourself from the Bush era neocons, but work for the Rand corp sort of a way ?

or do you mean ; someone said Fuller when they meant Williams (mister drone) sort of a way ?

Am confused now

Yes confusing. iamwhomiam mentioned "promoting his book" and I automatically thought of Williams new Drone book and posted it. When I reread iams post he mentioned "retired" and "station chief", so it might appear he meant Fuller.
iam will have to clarify that. As far as Fuller is concerned, I had not heard his name directly relating to the events in Boston, here or anywhere,(doesnt mean it wasnt) thereby questioning his involvement. I am sure that clears things right up! :basicsmile

Yes, almost, I knew he was CIA, did not realize it was that Fuller, thank you!
Now that I understand things better I am really confused!
Had a hard enough time sorting out this post!
Last edited by Burnt Hill on Fri May 10, 2013 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby FourthBase » Fri May 10, 2013 5:37 pm

How could anyone here not yet know Uncle Tsarni was Fuller's live-in son-in-law? :lol:
Better late than never!

Just in case that seems trifling: Think of the epic vetting that would've initiated.
The CIA et. al. would've known every member of Tsarni's immediate family.
And would've kept knowing them. Indefinitely.

You don't just casually let a well-connected Chechen marry the daughter of and live with a man like Fuller who, no matter when he "quits" the CIA (lol, like that ever happens), would still possess in his mind vital national security secrets. Tsarni's family would've had a thick, thick file. When these brothers were mere children. The two brothers would've had their own files, maybe. If no files, at all, if no vetting, at all, then Fuller would've had to hide Tsarni from that necessary process, would likely be negligent to probably a criminal degree, if not traitorous degree. Or, Tsarni is a total security-cleared CIA asset himself. One inconvenient-for-the-perps thing or another. There is really no possible innocent explanation here. Hence, one of the reasons I think the whole bombing and aftermath did not turn out at all like the perps hoped.

Fuller is very, very much connected to the bombing. Very.
In case it's unclear: I personally suspect Fuller of being a perp, a mastermind maybe.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri May 10, 2013 5:39 pm

The LA Times has now reproduced the death certificate:

http://documents.latimes.com/tamerlan-t ... rtificate/

Glad I didn't splash out $45 on that. Anyway, apart from the sheer brevity and uninformativeness of this one-page document, two things stand out glaringly.

Firstly:

Coroner wrote:Place of Death (Check only one):

Hospital

Inpatient:

ER/Outpatient:

DOA:


It says DOA. Dead on arrival.

So what was all this about?

April 20, 2013
Beth Israel staff tried to save bombing suspect
By JORDAN GRAHAM | Page 5

Emergency room doctors at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center desperately tried to save the life of one of the Boston Marathon bombing suspects early yesterday after he was in a wild chase and shootout with police in Watertown.

Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, was brought into the ER about 1:20 yesterday morning with gunshot, shrapnel and blast wounds, said Dr. Richard Wolfe, head of the hospital’s Emergency Department.

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/lo ... ng_suspect


Either:

Dr. Richard Wolfe and the other emergency room doctors at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center are lying

or:

The coroner who produced Tamerlan Tsarnaev's death certificate is lying.

Which is it? (Third possibility, listed for the sake of completeness: The Boston Herald invented the whole interview with Dr. Richard Wolfe. But he has never suggested such a thing in the nearly three weeks since that interview was published)


Secondly:

Coroner wrote:35D: Describe how death occurred

SHOT BY POLICE AND THEN RUN OVER AND DRAGGED BY MOTOR VEHICLE


So what was all this about? (from the same Dr. Richard Wolfe, quoted later on in the same Boston Herald article, now pay-per-view)

Despite claims in the media which originated from law enforcement, Dr. Richard Wolfe, head of the hospital’s Emergency Department, could not see any evidence of this claim. The Boston Herald reported:

Boston Herald wrote:When asked about reports that Tsarnaev was run over by a vehicle driven by his fleeing brother, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, Wolfe said he did not see any obvious injuries that would back up that theory.

“I certainly did not see any tire marks or the usual things we see with someone run over by a car,” he said.


http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/04/19/g ... -tsarnaev/


Now the corpse has vanished without trace, having last been seen by Uncle Ruslan and His Three Friends after a "mix-up" (sic) in which it landed at the wrong funeral parlour.

What's going on here?
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Fri May 10, 2013 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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