shooting at DC Holocaust museum

[professorpan]

I suppose it's our nature here to throw out those "what ifs" ¿no?

I would rather appeal to the better part of our nature that resists speculation for the sake of speculation, particularly in the face of an abundance of evidence supporting the official story and the well-known tactic of blaming the victims.

[nathan28]

Jeff, You caution Starviego about paraphrasing Michael Hoffman. Is this in reference to Starviego's last post with his list of questions?

Are not those questions legitimate ones? Has this shooting been rigorously investigated?

From what I can fathom, yes, it seems pretty cut-and-dried. The killer was a well-known, big-mouthed neo-Nazi, he left a note, his relatives admit he was a hateful fucktard who they suspected might do something to go out in a blaze of racist glory, he apparently left a note, his vehicle was traced to him, and one can read his very own words about how the Holocaust was a hoax and the world would be better off without Jews and blacks.

The "what ifs" seem a bit contrived.

I'd say it seems contrived, too. He seems like a constipated old dude. Even that "Links To German Neo-Nazis" story is weak, not exactly a Fascist Int'l network so much as one email to a Nazi lawyer. Maybe Von Brunn was an activated agent or something, and maybe the letters etc. are faked, but until something comes forward this story is just some agit-crap floating around the newsphere.

Pan, who is blaming victims besides the flagrant st*rmtards (who I have set to "ignore") here? I haven't seen a single suggestion that Stephen Johns, African American Security Guard Formerly At Large, was running a communist conspiracy.

From the WSJ:

FBI Seeks to Target Lone Extremists

By GARY FIELDS and EVAN PEREZ

The recent killings of a U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum guard and a Kansas abortion doctor came a few months after the Federal Bureau of Investigation stepped up efforts to pre-empt violence committed by just such political extremists working alone.

"Lone-wolf offenders continue to be of great concern to law enforcement," the agency said in a February memo reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. The FBI is "trying to identify a potential lone wolf before he or she would act out violently," Michael Ward, the bureau's deputy assistant director for counterterrorism, said in an interview earlier this year.

The lone-wolf initiative is one element of a broader strategy to fight domestic terrorism, dubbed "Operation Vigilant Eagle," launched late last year in response to what the memo identified as "an increase in recruitment, threatening communications, and weapons procurement by white supremacy extremist and militia/sovereign citizen extremist groups."

If it weren't for B-Roc's DOJ's absurd claim that grounds for detention are state secrets or the proposal to offer execution without trial for guilty pleas, this would just be regular PR talk to me.

Speaking of bluster and retards (MAY TRIGGER DESPAIR ABOUT HUMANITY) (sorry, no link-juice for the Dallas News):

Jonah Goldberg: Painting the right as a single blob of evil

When an abortion provider in Wichita, Kan., was murdered, the predictable chorus pointed fingers at Fox News' Bill O'Reilly. After all, O'Reilly had said that George Tiller was a "baby killer" and had railed against the doctor's late-term abortion practice for years. He must be to blame! No one bothered to blah blah ponder whether a militant pro-life extremist really needed a talk-show host to tell him anything he didn't already know on this topic.

But, never mind [don't worry, J-Dawg, we won't].

Next came James von Brunn blah a dangerous nut even within the dangerous-nut community. He took his gun and shot up the Holocaust Museum and murdered a guard. blah blah revenge fantasies against the Jewish-neocon globalist cabal, which apparently outsources much of its work to the Bush family. He is the kind of fanatic the zombies who talk to themselves at the bus station would give a wide berth.

But, of course, we have Sarah Palin to thank for von Brunn. So says some genius at blah blah blah the entire media establishment is comfortable labeling von Brunn as a member of the "far right." blah blah blah journalistically responsible if the press would start calling Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Sean Hannity, et al., moderates and centrists....

[professorpan]

Hmmm -- Rense is pushing the idea that the guard was killed by another guard (the headline found below a prominent quote from the Protocols, naturally):

Eyewitness - One Guard Shot The Other At Holo Museum
(note "Holo" museum, because, well, using the word "Holocaust" legitimizes those who believe it really happened)
It's allegedly a CNN transcript, but it links to this neo-Nazi site and pimps von Brunn's "Kill All the Good Gentiles" manuscript:
http://www.rense.com/general86/eye.htm

However, I can find nothing supporting the existence of the alleged CNN live feed. It seems to be nothing but self-referential, circular bullshit.

Rense is getting really bold these days, not even hiding the really vicious and clearly anti-Semitic (not anti-Zionist) material, but featuring it even more prominently than before.

[SonOfKitty]

American Dream

Waiting for your reply.

So would I. But it is very real. A majority of Amricans still think that Israel was founded by Holocaust victims and don't have a clue of the history of Zionism. But you must know the reason for this since you claim to have a full understanding of its antithesis. There must be a source that you can point to.

[compared2what?]

I would argue that as much as Jewish people may express vocal disapproval for what Israel does (I do), in the backs of their minds, they are thankful that Israel exists. The Zionist gamble appears to have paid off and now their is a Jewish nation state that is not going anywhere anytime soon and which provides benefits to Jews.

You're a fool if you think that Israel (as a power) gives a flying fuck about the welfare of Jews or any other group of people qua a group of people. Also, it's a genocidal, war-mongering state. Please stop speaking for what people who use their minds have in the back of them.

The main reason that we have a big, showy holocaust museum in the nation's capital -- whereas we not only don't have a big, showy slavery museum anywhere, we blithely accept the numerous, beautifully historically preserved plantation estates that are open to the public all over the formerly confederate south as delightful tourist attractions -- is because big, showy holocaust museums help America feel good about getting involved in the kinds of wars in foreign lands that the military-industrial complex make lots and lots of money by waging. Exponentially more money by a factor of it's-not-calculable than even the enormous sums lavished on various influential figures in federal government by all the pro-Israeli lobbyists in DC put together.

I don't really how this can be a newsflash to anyone familiar with the culture, J-Lo: But please try to bear in mind that the United States, overall, doesn't adore the Jewish people any more than any other country in the Western world. Because a fairly large number of people everywhere tend not to like Jews. Period. Which doesn't mean that it logically follows that Jews are therefore automatically entitled to a nation-state on land that's already occupied. Or anything else of a similarly over-dramatic, absurd, and insidious nature.

In fact, the only reason I'm risking bringing it up is that while it would certainly be nice if you were implacably opposed to the slaughter, abuse, and devastation of the Palestinian people by the state of Israel just because you opposed slaughter, abuse and devastation, that's not apparently the case. So you might want to spend a little time meditating on whether it's possible that it's always been the policy of your little beneficial Jewish homeland to perpetuate a somewhat Jew-hostile status quo worldwise for self-interested reasons that have nothing to do with the Legendary and Historic Suffering of the Jewish People.

In short: Even if you have no heart, just as a practical matter, please don't kid yourself. You're only making things more dangerous for everybody.

[AlicetheKurious]

I've been to Washington D.C., though admittedly the last time was before Sept. 11, 2001. Even then, (Clinton was president) the police was ubiquitous and extremely alert, even paranoid. In the middle of the afternoon, most museums and 'places of interest' have long waiting lines in front of them.

Question: how does a man get out of a car carrying a "22 caliber rifle" and walk unmolested right into the Holocaust Museum with it?

[Jeff]

Question: how does a man get out of a car carrying a "22 caliber rifle" and walk unmolested right into the Holocaust Museum with it?

He was shot at the entrance by security, so he didn't get very far.

His advanced age was a contributing element of surprise. Wasn't his victim shot while holding the door for him?

[orz]

Eyewitness - One Guard Shot The Other At Holo Museum
(note "Holo" museum, because, well, using the word "Holocaust" legitimizes those who believe it really happened)

What no 'Jewseum'? They really missed a trick there.

[professorpan]

I would argue that as much as Jewish people may express vocal disapproval for what Israel does (I do), in the backs of their minds, they are thankful that Israel exists. The Zionist gamble appears to have paid off and now their is a Jewish nation state that is not going anywhere anytime soon and which provides benefits to Jews.

You're a fool if you think that Israel (as a power) gives a flying fuck about the welfare of Jews or any other group of people qua a group of people. Also, it's a genocidal, war-mongering state. Please stop speaking for what people who use their minds have in the back of them.

The main reason that we have a big, showy holocaust museum in the nation's capital -- whereas we not only don't have a big, showy slavery museum anywhere, we blithely accept the numerous, beautifully historically preserved plantation estates that are open to the public all over the formerly confederate south as delightful tourist attractions -- is because big, showy holocaust museums help America feel good about getting involved in the kinds of wars in foreign lands that the military-industrial complex make lots and lots of money by waging. Exponentially more money by a factor of it's-not-calculable than even the enormous sums lavished on various influential figures in federal government by all the pro-Israeli lobbyists in DC put together.

I don't really how this can be a newsflash to anyone familiar with the culture, J-Lo: But please try to bear in mind that the United States, overall, doesn't adore the Jewish people any more than any other country in the Western world. Because a fairly large number of people everywhere tend not to like Jews. Period. Which doesn't mean that it logically follows that Jews are therefore automatically entitled to a nation-state on land that's already occupied. Or anything else of a similarly over-dramatic, absurd, and insidious nature.

In fact, the only reason I'm risking bringing it up is that while it would certainly be nice if you were implacably opposed to the slaughter, abuse, and devastation of the Palestinian people by the state of Israel just because you opposed slaughter, abuse and devastation, that's not apparently the case. So you might want to spend a little time meditating on whether it's possible that it's always been the policy of your little beneficial Jewish homeland to perpetuate a somewhat Jew-hostile status quo worldwise for self-interested reasons that have nothing to do with the Legendary and Historic Suffering of the Jewish People.

In short: Even if you have no heart, just as a practical matter, please don't kid yourself. You're only making things more dangerous for everybody.

You're calling someone else heartless after that vicious, broad-brush, cynically absurd tirade? Funny.

Actually, not funny.

Yeah, the only reason there's a Holocaust museum is because of the military/industrial complex, not because of a human desire to honor the millions of humans killed by an militarized sociopathic cult bent on exterminating entire groups of undesirable people.

Why don't you go find a survivor of one of the camps and explain why the museum is such a farce?

[professorpan]

Question: how does a man get out of a car carrying a "22 caliber rifle" and walk unmolested right into the Holocaust Museum with it?

By doing it?

[nathan28]

You're calling someone else heartless after that vicious, broad-brush, cynically absurd tirade? Funny.

Actually, not funny.

Yeah, the only reason there's a Holocaust museum is because of the military/industrial complex, not because of a human desire to honor the millions of humans killed by an militarized sociopathic cult bent on exterminating entire groups of undesirable people.

Why don't you go find a survivor of one of the camps and explain why the museum is such a farce?

Why don't you go find a survivor of the Khmer Rogue camps, or the Soviet wheat policies, or Pinochet's "Commanding Heights" torture-for-capitalism policies, and tell any of them that Holocaust victims deserve a museum but they don't? Why not find one of those hundreds of thousands Del Monte workers who got cancer because of the company's liberal pesticide policy? Why not tell an Iraqi whose kids died after we bombed out the power and water that what he's been through is different? If the decision to kill in the extreme is made at the Wannsee Conference, it's somehow special in a way it wouldn't be if it was made in a board room or at the CFR? Why is that any less sociopathic? Or is it because our militarized death cult is somehow exceedingly different?


on edit, i can't believe I took the bait. clearly the existence of the Holocaust Museum has next to nothing to do with the circumstances, and is exactly the type of thing I'd expect to crop up in any discussion of anything newsworthy taking place there, save that this character felt it was a good fit for his An chose it as his site to go out in a blaze of "glory", to the extent shooting a guy holding a door open for you is glory. This is exactly the type of controlled-from-the-outset discourse that both the antisemites and the Israeli fascists benefit from and thrive within.

[Nordic]

The Unanswered Questions of the Holocaust Museum Shooting



--Where is the video evidence of this event?

--Initial reports said a third person was hurt. Who is this person? A second shooter who was wounded?

--If Von Brunn double parked his car in front of the museum, as police assert, why have no photos of this parked vehicle surfaced?

--Why are there no photos of the gun allegedly fired by the gunman?

--Where are the eyewitness statements of those who actually witnessed the shooting and could identify the alleged gunman? Why did no one see this man approach the museum with the rifle he was holding at his side? Some have claimed that guards are routinely posted outside the entrance of the museum as well. If so, what happened to them?

--What were the results of the autopsy done on the dead guard? What kind of bullet killed him? Where did the missile enter his body, the front or the back?

Thank you. I doubt anyone will bother to acknowledge these questions, but that is what brought me to this thread in the first place.

Normally we discuss such issues here in a forthright and honest manner, because that is why we come to this forum in the first place, but when something involves "the jews" suddenly you're an anti-semetic if you even bring up the funny smell arising from this weird weird act.

[jlaw172364]

There are plenty of museums that document various atrocities, however, not all of them are as recognized and discussed as the Holocaust museum.

Because various anti-Zionist, OR anti-semitic groups have been so busy spreading their literature, and this literature saturates non-mainstream political discourse, many individuals within said discourse have a distorted awareness, or focus on things like the Holocaust museum.

People asked "Why isn't there a Native American Holocaust musuem?" In fact, there was a museum dedicated to an individual massacre. No doubt, other such museums exist. But nobody talks about them because Native Americans, being beaten, semi-politically-helpless victims of the dominant culture on the edge of extermination, don't threaten anyone like the Jews as too-successful model minority do.

And I still love how people think that any existing nation is entitled, legally or otherwise, to its land, but not Israel. Is Germany entitled to any land? Maybe they should have put Israel where Germany is and let the Germans wander around the globe for a few millenia. Is Russia entitled to the vast swaths of territory it claims?

One could go on and on.

People also keep getting upset that I distinguish genocide from oppression that could lead to genocide. These people fail to understand that the default condition for most people in the world, those that live on scraps and struggle to feed themselves, is basically a state of oppression that could lead to genocide. These people are denied their fair share of resources that are withheld from them for reasons of greed intertwined the desire to control, both in terms of numbers and in terms of politics, the population. Yet, we only talk about the Palestinians, and when I raise this point, I'm accused of not caring about the Palestinians, which is not true, since I do, and in any case, if I really didn't care, I would not bother spending my time writing anything at all about them; in fact, I would probably not even be aware of their existence.

All I'm saying is that people focus on the Palestinians because there is a giant pile of literature written about their suffering, which in many cases, is cynically used by anti-semites to bolster their own "research." You can read tracts written by virulent eliminationist white supremacists who call for the extermination of persons of color, and then suddenly, a passage lamenting the plight of the Palestinians! Of course these are also the same people, who will assert conflicting points of view, like "Holocaust never happened, but if you don't buy that, then the Allies, not the Nazis, killed the Jews by bombing them to smithereens while they cheerfully worked to bolster the Nazi war effort, the Nazis weren't anti-Jew, but I'm a Nazi and I hate Jews, even though I don't really hate them because I'm not a racist, I just love my white race . . . . "

But this is hardly the stuff that I think the RigInters draw on. I think it more likely that people draw on stuff that has been laundered a couple of times, like something written by an intelligent, scholarly, individual that doesn't seem racist on its face, will then wind up being used as "indisputable" "scientific" "proof" of Jewish perfidy, like the Walt-Mearsheim paper, that "proved" what any student of politics has known of years, that "OMG, groups that are foreign can lobby and influence are domestic and foreign policy, holy shit!"

Depending on who you're afraid of, you can read any number of papers on this or that groups unwarranted, secretive influence. Anyone ever read Crichton's novel Rising Sun? The Japanese were the Jews in that novel. They had money, power, influence. They were secretive. They kept to themselves. They put their children in separate schools. They had superpowers (I love the line about how they don't have an MTV music video obsessed culture, when clearly they do.), they can distort reality through various manipulations of media, they own everything, etc.

[nathan28]

The Unanswered Questions of the Holocaust Museum Shooting



--Where is the video evidence of this event?

--Initial reports said a third person was hurt. Who is this person? A second shooter who was wounded?

--If Von Brunn double parked his car in front of the museum, as police assert, why have no photos of this parked vehicle surfaced?

--Why are there no photos of the gun allegedly fired by the gunman?

--Where are the eyewitness statements of those who actually witnessed the shooting and could identify the alleged gunman? Why did no one see this man approach the museum with the rifle he was holding at his side? Some have claimed that guards are routinely posted outside the entrance of the museum as well. If so, what happened to them?

--What were the results of the autopsy done on the dead guard? What kind of bullet killed him? Where did the missile enter his body, the front or the back?

Thank you. I doubt anyone will bother to acknowledge these questions, but that is what brought me to this thread in the first place.

Normally we discuss such issues here in a forthright and honest manner, because that is why we come to this forum in the first place, but when something involves "the jews" suddenly you're an anti-semetic if you even bring up the funny smell arising from this weird weird act.

Because there isn't any valid question there, unless THEY killed some security guard standing at the door and then dropped a ranting stooge with an old rifle at the door. Maybe someone will turn up with photographs of Michael Aquino holding electronic equipment across the street from Von Brunn's house, or this guy will have some Elohim City connections, but that hasn't happened yet.

[Nordic]

Also, there are some on this board who keep hounding me to answer their questions, with the suggestion that I'm deliberately avoiding them.

I'm not. If I ignore you, it's because I think your questions are not worth responding to, or that I'VE ALREADY ANSWERED THEM.

Why should I sit here and repeat myself?

But I will say this. I used to buy what I will call "the Israeli" position hook line and sinker. I, like most of the other people in this country, was a subject of the State and Media view on things. I viewed "The Palestinians" as dangerous, dirty terrorists, monsters, really, who were hell-bent on just indiscriminate killing. The word itself "Palestinian" would trigger a sort of programmed thing in me where I would think "ooh, those nasty scary people". Seriously.

I remember as a child, asking my Mom about some of this stuff and she told me that I really shouldn't pay attention to it, it was awful, it had gone on for thousands of years and always would. Not worth paying attention to.

Okay.

There's also the Christian view of "Israel" as some sort of promised land, and the Jews as the "chosen people". This is Old Testament stuff, and those of us who had your basic Sunday School stuff drilled into their heads, along with the Children's Illustrated Bible (nice pictures!) of all these stories, well you sort of get it into your head that Jews were the heroes of ancient times, and everybody else was awful and out to get them.

Then I remember reading, just for the hell of it, "Exodus" when I was a kid. The hero Jews, fearlessly starting their new nation. I remember the theme from Exodus, the movie, which really was an extremely moving piece of music to a 6 year old kid.

These views persisted until just fairly recently. I think it was Israel's attack on Lebanon that really opened my eyes.

So who attacked Lebanon and opened my eyes? Gosh, I'm sure it was a "we hate the Jews" plot to change the hears and minds of people like me.

No? Oh right, it was the State of Israel.

I saw the State of Israel be a war criminal of the worst kind.

So I started looking into that.

Now I don't really give a flying fuck who is abusing who, I just REALLY have a problem when people start abusing each other, and someone, ANYONE, starts being a bully. Especially a murderous, genocidal, war-criminal bully.

WHICH IS WHAT ISRAEL IS RIGHT NOW.

And to argue against that means that YOU are a goddamn apologist for a murderous, genocidal, war-criminal BULLY.

Which means YOU are part of the FUCKING PROBLEM.

Those of you who start pushing the "antisemitism" and "jew hating" charge when someone criticizes your pet murderous, genocidal, war-criminal bully of the state you (for some reason) love with a fervor usually reserved for "love it or leave it" redneck assholes, are acting like a bunch of psychotic idiots.

So there.

And you REALLY REALLY are doing a disservice, you in fact are fucking raping the true history of anti-semitism and REAL jew-hatred throughout history by suggesting that people like myself are somehow anti-semtic.

To someone like me, with my background, it is astounding. Simply astounding.

To me it's like watching a normally sane and commonsensical person vehemently defending the crimes of the Bush administration and saying I must "hate" white Christian men over 50.

It doesn't make any FUCKING SENSE.

And it means that it is YOU, and not ME, who has the problem.

The State of Israel, and I don't care if it's run by Jews, white guys, Indians, Africans, I don't give a SHIT who it is running it, is a fucking monster. Even mild-mannered Jimmy Carter has come out and said that Israel treats the Palestinians "like animals".

So STFU about your bullshit "antisemitism" charges. It makes people really dislike you, distrust you, and only feeds that which you THINK you are fighting.