is this board for the left-wing only?

[LilyPatToo]

I was really annoyed when I found out about trauma-based mind control and almost immediately discovered that just about the only people outside of this board who were aware of the programs and were supportive of survivors were Far-Right Wingers--! Of course, over the years since then, I've seen many indications that they're being exploited by spooks of various persuasions into spreading a ton of disinformation (think Cathy O'Brien/Mark Phillips). But at least those Conservatives were able to wrap their minds around the historical facts, unlike 99.999% of the Liberals I know

Still bugs the heck out of me, to be honest, that so many otherwise intelligent, well-informed people have such a violent allergy to any subject that has the slightest whiff of "conspiracy" about it. It's next to impossible to even get them to listen to the most basic facts about disinformation and MSM's kow-towing to the Men Behind The Curtain. About the only opening I ever get is when a popular movie alludes to mind control and my friends have had a couple glasses of wine...then I might get to talk about very limited aspects of the tactics used to shape public perception for a bit, before inevitably everyone gets really uncomfortable and changes the subject. it's maddening....

LilyPat

[Sweejak]

Do you mean they are just anti-government, have a conservative or traditionalist ideology, are Republicans or what?
I get eye-rolling about conspiracy theories, and fact, from both sides.

[Sweejak]

I've been thinking about Hugh's biological basis for political tendencies. I see what he means and I haven't studied it to the degree he has, but I don't think I agree. Sure, some people just tend to have authoritarian preferences and they often end up on the right political side because that side usually defends the traditional and the status quo. That's where you go to say stuff like "this is how it's always been done" or, " you must follow the law" which also happens to enforce status quo, obviously, since they are the authorities. So, I see it as more incidental than inbred. Also, there are so many exceptions that I don't think it's that useful. The same with empathy. And then, what are you going to do, eliminate populations based on biology to build a socialist state? Re-educate them? Transhumanize them.

On the other hand I think many, many leaders in business and politics are actual sociopaths and psychopaths and I would love to see people who are put in high positions get a mental health check. I'd bet we'd be shocked at what was found. I mean, you need a check in some places just to carry a mere pistol as opposed to running a nuclear equipped global military. If I were running for a public office I'd get one, publicize it, and challenge my opponent to do the same, but how you'd keep the test fair and unpoliticized? I don't know, well, unless it's in the blood, and there you are again.

[kool maudit]

hugh,

i am obviously aware that we have evolved to be social animals. the absolutism falls in declaring that only one political tendency addresses this.

[LilyPatToo]

Sweejack, sorry--I was unclear. My friends are just about all Liberals/Progressives. The level of denial that I see in them when it comes to absolutely anything even faintly conspiracy-tinged is appalling to me. It's the reason why I now accept that NPR has to have been involved in social engineering designed to sow aversion to "conspiracy thinking/subjects"--it's the outstanding common denominator among this group of people. All listen to it and several (my husband included) actually come across to being addicted to tuning in.

I believe that I also see an odd sort of insecurity in these very bright, well-educated people who I would have expected to be much more fearless in questioning Authority. In some ways (and particularly when we're talking conspiracy subject matter), they seem very leery of stepping out of the NPR-approved territory. This is a personal observation and I've not been aware of it long enough to test it out much, but damn they seem timid about being perceived as interested in things like mind control or the secret government. It bothers me.

LilyPat

[beeline]

Hey LilyPat-

I've been thinking a lot about what you wrote upthread, regarding fear. I totally agree with you with regard to fear being the underlying psychological control among conservatives, and obedience to father/authority figures.

I was raised in a household where my parents were both anti-nuke activists,and I got exposed to a lot of material at a very young age (9 or 10) that I probably shouldn't have, i.e. what exactly a nuclear bomb would do myself and my area if there was a direct hit from a 20-megaton bomb. Shit gave me nightmares. I would say a lot of my parents activities were fear-based in that they were genuinely afraid of nuclear conflict between the superpowers at the time. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that conservatives don't own fear exclusively.

I believe that I also see an odd sort of insecurity in these very bright, well-educated people who I would have expected to be much more fearless in questioning Authority. In some ways (and particularly when we're talking conspiracy subject matter), they seem very leery of stepping out of the NPR-approved territory. This is a personal observation and I've not been aware of it long enough to test it out much, but damn they seem timid about being perceived as interested in things like mind control or the secret government. It bothers me.

That exactly what I meant when I said 'some liberals are the most closed-minded people I know.' If a person is genuinely openminded, they will consider the merits of any argument, no matter how far-fetched. If they aren't, or are afraid of appearing the fool for doing so, they will not.

[Nordic]

. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that conservatives don't own fear exclusively.
.

Yeah, and the deliberately manufactured "fear of Sarah Palin" is what keeps Obama's approval ratings inflated artificially high.

Although he's doing a great job of deflating those as quickly as possible nowadays.

"Would you be happier if McCain/Palin was in charge?" "Well it would be worse if McCain Palin was in charge! Is that what you want?"

Assholes.

[Simulist]

. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that conservatives don't own fear exclusively.
.

Yeah, and the deliberately manufactured "fear of Sarah Palin" is what keeps Obama's approval ratings inflated artificially high.

Yep. If the Oval Office were occupied by Barack Obama, Sarah Palin, or an egg salad sandwich, the people who are really running this country would still be running it.

(The egg salad sandwich probably wouldn't last four years though. Hopefully.)

[Sweejak]

Sweejack, sorry--I was unclear. My friends are just about all Liberals/Progressives. The level of denial that I see in them when it comes to absolutely anything even faintly conspiracy-tinged is appalling to me. It's the reason why I now accept that NPR has to have been involved in social engineering designed to sow aversion to "conspiracy thinking/subjects"--it's the outstanding common denominator among this group of people. All listen to it and several (my husband included) actually come across to being addicted to tuning in.

I believe that I also see an odd sort of insecurity in these very bright, well-educated people who I would have expected to be much more fearless in questioning Authority. In some ways (and particularly when we're talking conspiracy subject matter), they seem very leery of stepping out of the NPR-approved territory. This is a personal observation and I've not been aware of it long enough to test it out much, but damn they seem timid about being perceived as interested in things like mind control or the secret government. It bothers me.

LilyPat

I've got friends across the spectrum, or maybe I should say I'm friendly with people from across the spectrum. I mean from American style Christian (I make distinctions here because I think US religion is a special class) militia types, to, well, the other end of the spectrum.

You're dead right. I think NPR news is toxic stuff, but you have to consider the years of higher education and the entitlement to arrogance that it gives you. Sometimes I hate NPR more than what I remember FOX was like. I don't listen to their news any more so I may be off on this, but I hate it more because it preens as the intellectuals choice, the clever people who would never vote against their interests, and then, they are just PC pussies too. Ugh!

I find that both sides will follow a conspiracy. It is more prevalent on the R side, but the L will do it too. I also think it depends on what party is in power, but if you strip that away it does seem to me that it corresponds to whether the conspiracy is against the government or the corporations. I really think that is a rule of thumb for almost all cases. I wonder if your liberal friends would believe that Blackwater has used mind control on Iraqis. See what I mean, or am I wrong?

[Elvis]

NPR-approved territory

That's a terrific phrase, and your entire comment on NPR and its doe-eyed listenership is really perceptive.

Yeah, I listen to NPR, quite a bit but I listen much more for how they cover things rather than for the news and discussions alone. (I don't have TV, and I figure if anything really important happens, someone will post it on RI, where it'll also get an honest examination. Yes...I get my news largely from RI.)

I don't know how many times I've heard an NPR panel moderator say at the end of a program, "Let's give Joe Blow from the Council on Foreign Relations the last word," or, "Let's give Bob Blob from the American Enterprise Institute the last word...." Augh!

The best thing on NPR is "Car Talk." But even then, listening today, it struck me that they never once encourage people to buy high-MPG cars, or suggest to people that if they don't really need a car, to get rid of it. (I quit keeping a car years ago.)

[LilyPatToo]

I listen to NPR occasionally too--LOVE Car Talk and laugh at Wait Wait Don't Tell Me--didn't mean to imply that there's nothing of value to be found there. But it remains the common denominator in the particular group I happen to interact with daily. And I pay respectful attention to HMW's posts about media dissemination of mass mind control memes, whether I agree 100% with them or not. Somehow, a whole bunch of clever people have become oddly nervous about any perception of their sounding as if they're aware of subjects like mind control or conspiracies among the powerful. Which is really odd to me. It sticks out like a sore thumb in their over-all Question Authority stance.

Sweejack, I'm not sure whether they'd be capable of hearing the Blackwater example or not. But you've given me something to think about. I should mention here that a large part of my discomfort with my friends' knee-jerk rejection of these subjects is colored by my own pain at having my tentative attempts to tell bits of my own personal history to them rebuffed and summarily rejected. Many years before I'd heard of the existence of mind control programs, if I brought up any of the bizarre incidents in my life in conversation, the subject was quickly changed. I was left with the impression that my very life was invalid or untrue or, at the very least, too strange to share.

Part of this was probably simple ignorance--if you exclude an entire category of information, then evidence of its existence is bound to be unsettling. But I feel that it was fear--programmed or naturally occurring--that originally drove the unconscious choice by the Left to exclude the information. It's a lot like trying to convince many New Agers that evil exists--it can shake their Disney-tinged positivist world views at a fundamental level. Is that what I do when I try to communicate to otherwise compassionate Liberals about horrifically unpleasant things that have actually happened to me? They've bought into the compassionate view that when human beings commit evil acts, they're sick or misguided, not evil. Most of them have never even interacted with a sociopath, let alone had one take control over their lives.

It hurts on multiple levels each time it happens, because I can't help but feel that these intellectually gifted individuals could make a difference if only they would turn their minds to subjects like mind control and the human trafficking that it enables. I've even corresponded with human trafficking activists--Progressives--who want nothing to do with a survivor who isn't 3rd world. Which is probably fear again, but this time it's a bit more defensible--if they include people like me, they risk attacks from the intelligence agencies who enabled the programs in the first place...and from the rabid Right-wingers who identify with and defend those agency thugs.

LilyPat

[Simulist]

It sounds to me like the entire culture is enthralled to authority in one way or another, and that this predisposition manifests in different ways depending upon preferred political tendencies.

The enthrallment to authority is the problem — and it's culture wide. This "neurosis" is neither left-wing nor right-wing, but affects the central nervous system of the whole beast.

[Sweejak]

It sounds to me like the entire culture is enthralled to authority in one way or another, and that this predisposition manifests in different ways depending upon preferred political tendencies.

The enthrallment to authority is the problem — and it's culture wide. This "neurosis" is neither left-wing nor right-wing, but affects the central nervous system of the whole beast.

Sure, people seek codes, codes for living or learning, and they will look for authorities and experts, but that is different than authoritarianism

I think it was this Lukacs read that resensitized me to the -ism twist.
viewtopic.php?p=335915#p335915

I have to say though that I often trust amateurs more than professionals, for one, they're not paid.

[82_28]

Yeah, I listen to NPR, quite a bit but I listen much more for how they cover things rather than for the news and discussions alone. (I don't have TV, and I figure if anything really important happens, someone will post it on RI, where it'll also get an honest examination. Yes...I get my news largely from RI.)

Yep. Me too. I only listen to it for trends in the psychology of mass control of "liberal" thought. KUOW here in Seattle has some good local shows, Car Talk is awesome as well. I was just driving around and Prairie Home Companion was on and I was wondering, yet again, what people see in Garrison Keillor. I mean, his voice is so grating at times and you always wonder where he's going with something. And then it hit me once the story he was telling was over -- THAT WAS A GOOD STORY! So I guess I still like Garrison Keillor and always have. It's just that little whisper he has midway through every tale he tells. It makes me go arghh! I understand it is his craft and he is obviously well known for his delivery and dead pan humor -- but it's no wonder people see NPR as boring, sniveling and leftist on the right and the "true" lefties see NPR as a mouthpiece for the oligarchy.

About NPR itself, I've heard and read somewhere that it is one hell of a cut-throat organization. Like even harder and expensive to be an affiliate for than say an NBC, CBS or ABC.

[Sweejak]

About NPR itself, I've heard and read somewhere that it is one hell of a cut-throat organization. Like even harder and expensive to be an affiliate for than say an NBC, CBS or ABC.

I have relatives that work and have worked for NPR for a long time, they would certainly confirm that, but I'm going to confirm what I said about NPR as well regarding a kind of entitled arrogance. The people who complain about East Coast elites or the liberal snobbishness are correct. It's a valid observation and a rationally held opinion. But again, this is not just R/L. If you want snobbish arrogance just look up the neo-cons, oh wait... are they right or left again?