Giffords shooting

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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Forgetting2 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:26 pm

sfnate wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:Kinda makes me wonder about the metaphysical contention that we all create this reality via a decoding of information through our consciousnesses...


I don't think it would be too controversial to suggest that we are embedded actors in an imagined landscape: this collective narrative is a participatory project, an occult language with a grammatical and syntactical structure that recapitulates the ontological themes which are the motivating mythologies of every tragedy and comedy.

We acquire a fluency in this language through our shared suffering with other actors, whose dialog interrupts our solipsistic reverie with insistent demands for the next lines in the drama. If the whole thing seems eerily and unsettlingly reminiscent of some vaguely remembered something just beyond conscious recollection, it's not a coincidence we're feeling the curious vertigo of deja vu. Synchronicity is the clever plot device used to signal the organization of the narrative around several recurring, archetypal motifs. The decoding of these themes is the principal occupation of those who have become conscious of their roles as actors in an imagined landscape. Other players have resorted to a rigorous form of method acting called amnesia. They require subtle techniques of assistance, as waking them up too suddenly often produces violent reactions of disorientation and fear.

We're seeing a lot of disorientation and fear these days.


Very interesting. Influences on this line of thought? (Sounds a little PKD like?)
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:02 pm

nathan28 wrote:@Sepka: The "Lee" and all-three-names things were just too easy to pick out. Also IDK WTF they'd mean except that for copy desk editors having a middle name is a sign of being a serial killer.

Canadian_watcher wrote:Kinda makes me wonder about the metaphysical contention that we all create this reality via a decoding of information through our consciousnesses - perhaps misinterpretation of the cosmic 'datastream' by groups of individuals leads there to being a whole bunch of "Dallas Green" references surrounding one event, or echoing past events, since that data was out there, but we had no instruction on how to use it.

know what I mean? don't blame you if you don't since that was a pretty piss-poor explanation of the garble in my head.



Okay, here's the thing I notice from those Daily News photos: Loughner's "altar"--that's what it is--has burnt candles and ashes at it. I'm just going to hazard to guess that Loughner was actively doing occult stuff. In case you didn't know, that shit gets really weird really fast. I.e., it's destabilizing. Someone quoted said he was in a "nihilistic rut" that wasn't typical for him (although his obsession with "grammar" seems to predate that)--lo and behold, there's a skull and prayer candles prominent in his back yard. Combined with this guy's fondness for Zeitgeistisms and Jordan Maxwell-like crap, I think what's going on is a sort of perfect storm of schizophrenia, occult/praeterhuman something and incoherent politics.

Put another way, this guy was throwing occult gas on a fire.

There's really something that isn't adding up here, and it might just be that press hasn't really sorted the details into a coherent story or found the central 'fact' that this revolves around. This guy shot a conservative Democrat, and wasn't/isn't the judge who was hit a Republican?

Joe Hillshoist wrote:Luther Blissett the night before this happened at my place, (maybe while it was happening, not sure) that Mad Mel film Conspiracy Theory was on.

To much coincidence about this as it is.


You mean like this precognitive KWH? What I don't see in the MSM is the suggestion that Zeitgeist IV or whatever set this guy off.



Honestly its a personal thing, seeing the movie conspiracy theory the night before, or more probably while it was actually happening, then having a 2 hour rave with the missus about it was something that really brought into focus all the other little things that seem coincidental that otherwise might not have been noteworthy.

I am talking about "my life" and me noticing these things in the paper, on the telly and in what people have said over the last few days. Plus little things like that kids birthdate, which is creepy.

And honestly annoying, cos its like turning someones death into a game of numbers, but then we do that all the time.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby nathan28 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:04 pm

brainpanhandler wrote:
I just can't figure out what sort of politics would lead someone to assassinate Giffords and strike


It's probably emblematic of the times that's it's not clear at all, but people, for purposes that say more about them than loughner, not least of which is a desire for simplicity, will try to cram him into some sort of pigeohole.


Yeah, the politics of this are fairly emblematic of America's confusion. And I've already pigeon-holed the guy as a poorly-educated dude who took pride in his high school reading list, who looks very much like he suffered from adult onset schizophrenia, exacerbated by an interest in truly unintelligible pabulum, further aggravated by some species of occult practice. To what and whose ends, well, I don't know, but I haven't ruled much out yet. Then again, I'm not a detective or a journalist, so don't hold your breath for me.

What is strange to me is that the linguistic dementia this guy subscribed to has a sort of "community" of followers, like someone already mentioned upthread. What's stranger is that they seem to have some vague politics to it (mostly right-populism of some sort), and act on it. It's like canned insanity. I'm indulging in some fantasy here, though, so don't take this suggestion too seriously.

Actually, on second thought, I'm speculating about someone in a lab somewhere, cooking up "culling songs" designed to initiate schizophrenic breakdowns among a certain percentage of the population for the sake of violence. But that means I postulated some malignant agency somewhere, and that doesn't make any sense, because the people who treat this word-salad as a science are charlatans and fabulists like Jordan Maxwell and this :David-Wynn: Miller character... which means it isn't malignancy, it's negligence. They don't care if the crap they spew to resembles the sort of paranoid ideation from which psychiatric careers are built. It's a self-satisfied cleverness for them, like a crossword puzzle they know all the answers to b/c they wrote it; and for people like Loughner, it's an obsession that rots the mind.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:10 pm

The Consul wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:
Wait a minute are you saying that the city of Tuscon derives from the shookson/Cuk Ṣon story cycle of the Pima people that involves a hero murdered by public consent?

I HAVE to see a link to that.


http://www.everyculture.com/North-America/Pima-Papago-Religion-and-Expressive-Culture.html


Cheers very much.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby vanlose kid » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:17 pm

Jared Loughner is a product of Sheriff Dupnik’s office
by James Kelley

This is the report that Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik has been dreading since the tragic event on Saturday January 8.

The sheriff has been editorializing and politicizing the event since he took the podium to report on the incident. His blaming of radio personalities and bloggers is a pre-emptive strike because Mr. Dupnik knows this tragedy lays at his feet and his office. Six people died on his watch and he could have prevented it. He needs to step up and start apologizing to the families of the victims instead of spinning this event to serve his own political agenda.

Jared Loughner, pronounced by the Sheriff as Lock-ner, saying it was the Polish pronunciation. Of course he meant Scott or Irish but that isn’t the point. The point is he and his office have had previous contact with the alleged assailant in the past and that is how he knows how to pronounce the name.

Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation. My sympathies and my heart goes out to her and the rest of Mr. Loughner’s family. This tragedy must be tearing them up inside wondering if they had done the right things in trying to manage Jared’s obvious mental instability.

Every victim of his threats previously must also be wondering if this tragedy could have been prevented if they had been more aggressive in pursuing charges against Mr. Loughner. Perhaps with a felony conviction he would never have been able to lawfully by the Glock 9mm Model 19 that he used to strike down the lives of six people and decimate 14 more.

This was not an act of politics. This was an act of a mentally disturbed young man hell bent on getting his 15 minutes of infamy. The Pima County Sheriff’s Department was aware of his violent nature and they failed to act appropriately. This tragedy leads right back to Sherriff Dupnik and all the spin in the world is not going to change that fact.

http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/201 ... ks-office/

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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby vanlose kid » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:19 pm

Image

Loughner Mug Shot Released
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 01/10/2011 17:19 -0500

From ABC15:

The suspect in a deadly Tucson shooting is being held without bail and has been assigned a lawyer who defended Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Timothy McVeigh.

Jared Loughner entered the courtroom Monday handcuffed and wearing a tan inmate uniform. His head is shaved and he has a cut on his right temple.

Loughner made his initial court appearance in federal court at 2 p.m. at the Sandra Day O’Connor U.S. Courthouse, while state charges have yet to be filed.

The court set Loughner’s preliminary hearing for Jan. 24.

ABC15’s Corey Rangel was at the courthouse this afternoon. Stay with ABC15 throughout the day for updates.

Loughner described as a social outcast with wild beliefs steeped in mistrust faces a federal court hearing on charges he tried to assassinate Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in the Tucson shooting rampage that left six people dead and wounded 14 others.

His expression was impassive as he walked in, looked straight at the crowd at the back of the room packed with reporters, then turned around to speak to his attorney, Judy Clarke. He responded "yes" when asked if he understood his rights.

Via ABC15.com

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/loughn ... t-released

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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Canadian_watcher » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:31 pm

.
so I'm a geek and have a thing for symmetry.

Loughner has one of the least symmetrical faces I've ever noticed. I did the Photoshop and wow.
I submit for your consideration the two faces of Jared:

Image

Image
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Simulist » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:40 pm

Holy shit. That second one literally gives me the chills.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:55 pm

Yeah, that freaks me the fuck out, scientifically speaking. That's incredibly weird.

Of course, the inherent threat of the 2nd face is enhanced greatly by having a neck about the width of a linebacker's thigh. He is clearly leaning to the left and the light source is off to his left, too.

But.

Just the same, a very creepy and worth use of photoshop.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Canadian_watcher » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:02 pm

makes me contemplate the schizophrenic thing and how it literally looks like two people reside in that one body.

yeah - I should have tried to compensate for the leaning regarding how wide it makes the neck look.. but that would have been a lot more work. ;)
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Simulist » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:25 pm

Loughner's Meltdown Began in Adulthood, Those Near Him Say

By Judson Berger

Published January 10, 2011

The cloudy image of the gunman in Saturday's horrific shooting in Tucson is starting to come into focus, as neighbors and acquaintances paint a picture of a troubled young man whose disturbing behavior started to flare up in just the last few years.

Alleged gunman Jared Lee Loughner, charged in the shooting that left six dead and 14 wounded including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, has a minor criminal record dating back to 2007. But his former high school principal, Richard Faidley, told FoxNews.com that he didn't have any major disciplinary problems in school before that.

"I don't recall anything of any significance with that individual," Faidley said, other than that he was involved in the school band program.

But Loughner's problems have now escalated to the point that his family has barricaded itself in their home, hounded by reporters and spectators who want to know how the 22-year-old could have gone on a killing spree on a sunny Saturday afternoon in Tucson.

The FBI was forced to wait outdoors Monday while the family removed the plywood it had used to blockade the door. After a few minutes of removing the wood, FBI began another search of the property that has been upended in the orderly and ongoing law enforcement investigation.

Speaking in her annual state of the state speech, Gov. Jan Brewer said the attack was an assault not merely on individuals, but on "on our republic, on our democracy." She said despite the impact, Arizona will not be brought down.

"In fact, we've been lifted up by America's thoughts and prayers and we're deeply grateful for them," she said.

As for Loughner's descent, his problems seem to have started to mount after he dropped out of Mountain View High School in 2006. It's unclear whether his behavior seriously startled anyone in the years immediately following, but after attending a local transitional school and then enrolling in Pima Community College, his classmates and his professors noticed something was wrong with Loughner.

Last year may have been a breaking point.


According to the college, campus police got involved on five separate occasions for "classroom and library disruptions" involving Loughner between February and September of last year. Things came to a head after campus police discovered a YouTube clip he filmed on campus that showed him saying the college is constitutionally illegal.

Loughner was suspended on Sept. 29 and withdrew a few days later. He was told that if he ever wanted to return he'd have to obtain a "mental health clearance" from a mental health professional saying he did not present a danger.

Loughner never presented such a document and never returned to school.

Ben McGahee, a math professor who pushed for Loughner to be removed, told Fox News he was scared for other students' safety.

Pima college students were equally concerned. Classmate Lynda Sorenson, 52, offered an eerily prescient warning in a personal e-mail to friends last summer.

"We have a mentally unstable person in the class that scares the living crap out of me. He is one of those whose picture you see on the news, after he has come into class with an automatic weapon," she said in an e-mail, published by The Washington Post. "Everyone interviewed would say, Yeah, he was in my math class and he was really weird. I sit by the door with my purse handy. If you see it on the news one night, know that I got out fast..."

Sorenson wrote that Loughner was "seriously disturbed," though she wasn't sure whether he was "on drugs."

Apparently, he was. Loughner was rejected from the Army in late 2008 when, during the application process, he admitted to using marijuana numerous times, according to a military source.

His 2007 arrest on record in Pima County was for possessing drug paraphernalia and other minor infractions.

A high school friend of Loughner, Caitie Parker, has given a detailed account of his personality and background on her Twitter page over the past few days. According to Parker, Loughner had "a lot of friends until he got alcohol poisoning in ‘06" and dropped out of high school.

She described him as "left wing" and "quite liberal" and "oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy." Parker described him as a "pot head" who was into rock music, though she hadn't seen him since 2007.

"I think he slowly descended in a psychotic break. Something in him snapped. He wasn't always like this," she wrote.

Loughner's neighbors described the young man as generally quiet and not talkative or friendly.

"It was almost as if he had blinders on," Stephen Woods, who lives next door, told Fox News on Monday. He said his son Anthony would try to wave to Loughner and he would just keep on walking. "No response, he wouldn't even look at him."


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01 ... -near-say/
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby SonicG » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:56 pm

Due to the time difference, I am not completely caught up...so a few random musings...
I hope when all the dust settles and the media gets past the far-right/radical connections, and the "occult" connection (no doubt, that "shrine" was a joke!), the focus will return to the mental health issue. Back when Geraldo Rivera was actually trying to be a legitimate reporter, he revealed some of the terrible conditions in a NY mental health facility- Carter-eara, I believe. Well, Reagan solved all that: he dumped the mentally ill on the street to provide tax breaks to the rich...And now we have over-medication of those who don't need it to the benefit of big pharma. and failure to provide for the truly mentally ill.

The attention to language is fairly common to schizophrenia isn't it? I mean besides the "voices in the head", they have a tendency to write voluminous insane tirades it seems. Korzybski anyone? Language and the construction of reality is an important subject and hopefully that too will survive a bit when the dust settles...
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Alice Doesn't Live Here Any More

Postby IanEye » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:15 pm

sfnate wrote:I don't think it would be too controversial to suggest that we are embedded actors in an imagined landscape: this collective narrative is a participatory project, an occult language with a grammatical and syntactical structure that recapitulates the ontological themes which are the motivating mythologies of every tragedy and comedy.


.
Image

when you're awake the things you think
come from the dreams you dream
thought has wings and lots of things are seldom what they seem
sometimes you think you've lived before - all that you live today
things you do come back to you as though they knew the way
oh, the tricks your mind can play...


nsfw

.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 82_28 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:37 pm

That symmetry thing is creeeepy. It's as if he's simultaneously nothing more than a little boy and a monster -- which, I suppose just about sums him up. From the middle of the nose up, he also looks like Terry Bradshaw. I hate Terry Bradshaw.

Image
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby IanEye » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:46 pm

Canadian_watcher wrote:so I'm a geek and have a thing for symmetry.



right back at 'cha...

IanEye wrote:Image
Image

09-19-08


it seems we've stood and talked like this before
we looked at each other in the same way then
but eye can't remember where or when...
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