Theophobia

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Re: Theophobia

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:08 pm

Here's a short extract from Stan Goff's brilliant Open Letter to Christian US Troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's worth a million times more than any amount of the vain and childish yahooism spouted by Dawkins & Harris & Hitchens and their state-worshipping, self-adoring, dumbly positivist ilk.

(...)

Pretensions of the devil

Scripture has been interpreted to suit plenty that is the very evil you renounced at your baptism. The subjugation of women. Slavery. War. Even the white supremacist sects have quoted Scripture. But in order to do so, literalism and decontextualizaton have been used to distort the essence and spirit of the Scriptures for the most impure of motives. In America, we hear much about a few references to sex in the Bible, but little about the many references to poverty, and less about Jesus’ provocations on peace.

When Jesus says his way will break the dominance of one generation over another within the family, between slave and master, between male and female, he does not confine this vision to heaven – where the upside-down “kingdom” without oppression lives in the dimension of Spirit. He says “on earth as it is in heaven.” Jesus was an earthy guy. He bathed in rivers, shat on the ground, and broke bread with fishmongers, tax-collectors, outcasts, prostitutes, Zealots… and he showed mercy to the child of a Roman soldier.

Even on the cross, in his final breaths as the Romans’ victim, he cries out to God on behalf of those who kill him: “When they came to the place that is called The Skull, they crucified Jesus there with the criminals, one on his right and one on his left. Then Jesus said, ‘Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.’” (Luke 23:33-34)

What do you think that means? Certainly the Roman soldiers (soldiers like you) knew they were participating in a crucifixion. The Roman troops had done this many times. What they did not understand was how their system led them to do this.

In Matthew 27:54, it was a Centurion who heard these words — “forgive them” — and experienced an earthquake, saying, “Truly, this is the Son of God.” (Do you see how the symbolic truth here is more powerful than the literal seismology?)

Forgiveness unmasks Satan, who is not the boogyman of popular culture, but the spirit in the culture — some would call it a zeitgeist — that acts as God’s jealous pretender, that promotes Self as God, that plays the accuser to stir up the mob (weapons of mass destruction?), that sets up idols… so that we will “know not what we do,” so we will not know who and whose we are.

You can hear the voice of Satan in every instance of boasting, humiliation of another, profaning of what we know to be sacred (like God’s Creation), every thought and word of aggression or revenge, every put-down of other people (all beloved of God). Where you are, you can see how the state of war and occupation — putting you at odds with an occupied population that does not want to be occupied — amplifies and focuses the malevolent spirit. Now ask yourself why?

Why do troops run down civilians with vehicles to avoid slowing down? Why do troops throw bottles and cans at pedestrians to entertain themselves? Why did the massacres like Haditha occur? Why did the utter destruction of Fallujah happen? Why are wedding parties bombed by US aircraft? Why did a whole squad participate in the premeditated half-hour-long rape and murder of a screaming 14-year-old girl? Why is it that approaching an invader’s roadblock can carry death sentence for a whole family? Why can children can be woken from their beds by soldiers kicking down the house doors? Why are thousands are held imprisoned without casue? Why are Iraqi and Afghan elders obliged to obey 20-year-old invaders who can’t even speak their language? Why do your peers (perhaps even you) refer to all Iraqis or Afghans with epithets? Why do your peers laugh when they retell stories of their own cruelties and their humiliations of the people whose nations they have invaded? Why are you there?

What is the spirit in our culture that spins out clever excuses for these evils? It is that same spirit that you renounced at your baptism, which I call on you to remember now.

Remember your baptism, where you renounced Satan.

(...)

http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index. ... ghanistan/
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Theophobia

Postby Saurian Tail » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:09 pm

Saurian Tail wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:
Pierre d'Achoppement wrote:I intuited it then googled theophobia myself and found http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblaw ... hobia.html as one of the topresults (top of page 2, most of page 1 are simply definitions)


what initiative! :)

yes, that's what I did. I'm not writing a thesis over here.


This is Extraverted Thinking in action ... finding a handy example to use as a discussion starter ... thinking is enhanced and logic unfolds through interaction with others. To the extraverted thinker, the introverted thinker is hiding information which he or she must uncover (through provocative means if necessary).

Whereas the introverted thinker presents a quintessential example in order to demonstrate a level of competence with the materials ... thoughts spring fully formed with defenses prepared. To the introverted thinker, the extraverted thinker's thoughts are scattered and they must be pinned down (through various challenges of logic).

-ST

And when in conflict, the extraverted thinker is accused of bing an "idiot" and the introverted thinker is accused of being a "prick".

-ST
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Re: Theophobia

Postby The Consul » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:10 pm

It's like George Carlin said....everyone who drives slower than you is an idiot and everyone who drives faster than you is a maniac.
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Re: Theophobia

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:18 pm

No, Consul, it's not like that at all.

PS I like Carlin, but I don't worship him. And it's further proof that any scripture, including Saint George's, can be cherrypicked to spread confusion.
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Theophobia

Postby Canadian_watcher » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:20 pm

Saurian Tail wrote:
Saurian Tail wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:
Pierre d'Achoppement wrote:I intuited it then googled theophobia myself and found http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblaw ... hobia.html as one of the topresults (top of page 2, most of page 1 are simply definitions)


what initiative! :)

yes, that's what I did. I'm not writing a thesis over here.


This is Extraverted Thinking in action ... finding a handy example to use as a discussion starter ... thinking is enhanced and logic unfolds through interaction with others. To the extraverted thinker, the introverted thinker is hiding information which he or she must uncover (through provocative means if necessary).

Whereas the introverted thinker presents a quintessential example in order to demonstrate a level of competence with the materials ... thoughts spring fully formed with defenses prepared. To the introverted thinker, the extraverted thinker's thoughts are scattered and they must be pinned down (through various challenges of logic).

-ST

And when in conflict, the extraverted thinker is accused of bing an "idiot" and the introverted thinker is accused of being a "prick".

-ST


what happens if you're accused of being both simultaneously?
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Theophobia

Postby Saurian Tail » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:46 pm

Canadian_watcher wrote:ST - that is really interesting theory. (I'm not being sarcastic .. I say so because I might have put myself in to a position with you where I am obliged to point that out.. sorry about that)

I consider myself to be an introvert. I test as such consistently as well. I can't really put myself into either of the boxes you've described above though.. so I wonder about the theories of introversion and extraversion in general. hrm....

We have four cognitive functions that govern how we interact with the world ... intuition, thinking, sensing and feeling. Each function is extraverted or introverted. My preferences from most preferred to least preferred as an INFJ are as follows:

INFJ

Conscious Functions

1. Introverted Intuition
2. Extraverted Feeling
3. Introverted Thinking
4. Extraverted Sensing

Unconscious Functions

5. Extraverted Intuition
6. Introverted Feeling
7. Extraverted Thinking
8. Introverted Sensing

I'm an introvert so my primary function is introverted. My introverted intuition is supported by extraverted feeling and introverted thinking. These three functions in that order make up who I am and how I perceive the world.

A person with a strong preference for extraverted thinking "triggers" me and I have to exercise restraint and understanding to avoid conflict because extraverted thinking immediately comes off as either bossy or illogical to me.

People get along when they communicate horizontally and fight when they communicate vertically. That is about as concisely as I can state it.

The basic references for types and type interaction are Jung's personality types, MBTI theory, Socionics, and Beebe's mapping of archetypes to cognitive functions.

-ST
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Re: Theophobia

Postby Canadian_watcher » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:58 pm

@ ST :tiphat:

fellow INFJ here. Or at least that's what the test said the one time I took it.

Perhaps it'd be different today. :shrug:
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: Theophobia

Postby The Consul » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:18 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:No, Consul, it's not like that at all.

PS I like Carlin, but I don't worship him. And it's further proof that any scripture, including Saint George's, can be cherrypicked to spread confusion.



Abashment, however it is coded, is only a two way mirror held by souls that spright themselves a secret station, only to be apprenticed to all who obviate their wiles.
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Re: Theophobia

Postby hanshan » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:21 pm

..

The Consul wrote:
MacCruiskeen wrote:No, Consul, it's not like that at all.

PS I like Carlin, but I don't worship him. And it's further proof that any scripture, including Saint George's, can be cherrypicked to spread confusion.



Abashment, however it is coded, is only a two way mirror held by souls that spright themselves a secret station, only to be apprenticed to all who obviate their wiles.



good call

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Re: Theophobia

Postby Canadian_watcher » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:24 pm

The particulate - not cold yet as it travails for a tomb - might flush us should we approach from the right angle, at the right time. It would like to be left to its devices which are, precisely, to land upon our ears still warm. It will never find its cold grave if it is successful in its work. As for us? We'd like to help it along if only we could resist our temptations and give it this day its bread.

:angelwings:
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

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Re: Theophobia

Postby vanlose kid » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:36 pm

Belligerent Savant wrote:...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1221782 ... %3Darticle

Because here's something else that's true. In the day-to-day trenches of adult life, there is actually no such thing as atheism. There is no such thing as not worshipping. Everybody worships. The only choice we get is what to worship. And an outstanding reason for choosing some sort of God or spiritual-type thing to worship -- be it J.C. or Allah, be it Yahweh or the Wiccan mother-goddess or the Four Noble Truths or some infrangible set of ethical principles -- is that pretty much anything else you worship will eat you alive. If you worship money and things -- if they are where you tap real meaning in life -- then you will never have enough. Never feel you have enough. It's the truth. Worship your own body and beauty and sexual allure and you will always feel ugly, and when time and age start showing, you will die a million deaths before they finally plant you. On one level, we all know this stuff already -- it's been codified as myths, proverbs, clichés, bromides, epigrams, parables: the skeleton of every great story. The trick is keeping the truth up-front in daily consciousness. Worship power -- you will feel weak and afraid, and you will need ever more power over others to keep the fear at bay. Worship your intellect, being seen as smart -- you will end up feeling stupid, a fraud, always on the verge of being found out. And so on.

Look, the insidious thing about these forms of worship is not that they're evil or sinful; it is that they are unconscious. They are default-settings. They're the kind of worship you just gradually slip into, day after day, getting more and more selective about what you see and how you measure value without ever being fully aware that that's what you're doing. And the world will not discourage you from operating on your default-settings, because the world of men and money and power hums along quite nicely on the fuel of fear and contempt and frustration and craving and the worship of self. Our own present culture has harnessed these forces in ways that have yielded extraordinary wealth and comfort and personal freedom. The freedom to be lords of our own tiny skull-sized kingdoms, alone at the center of all creation. This kind of freedom has much to recommend it. But of course there are all different kinds of freedom, and the kind that is most precious you will not hear much talked about in the great outside world of winning and achieving and displaying. The really important kind of freedom involves attention, and awareness, and discipline, and effort, and being able truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them, over and over, in myriad petty little unsexy ways, every day. That is real freedom. The alternative is unconsciousness, the default-setting, the "rat race" -- the constant gnawing sense of having had and lost some infinite thing.



Belligerent Savant quoted this yesterday. thought i'd post it in full. it gives a better description or presentation of the point of critical thinking and what it is than what's been given so far. it raises questions about choice, the will, conscience, awareness, discipline. it also hangs well with MacCruiskeen's Stan Goff post above, i.e. the "spirit" of these times, and the main question of this thread:

David Foster Wallace on Life and Work Adapted from a commencement speech given by David Foster Wallace to the 2005 graduating class at Kenyon College. Mr. Wallace, 46, died last Friday, after apparently committing suicide.. + More

There are these two young fish swimming along, and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says, "Morning, boys, how's the water?" And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes, "What the hell is water?"

If at this moment, you're worried that I plan to present myself here as the wise old fish explaining what water is to you younger fish, please don't be. I am not the wise old fish. The immediate point of the fish story is that the most obvious, ubiquitous, important realities are often the ones that are the hardest to see and talk about. Stated as an English sentence, of course, this is just a banal platitude -- but the fact is that, in the day-to-day trenches of adult existence, banal platitudes can have life-or-death importance. That may sound like hyperbole, or abstract nonsense.

A huge percentage of the stuff that I tend to be automatically certain of is, it turns out, totally wrong and deluded. Here's one example of the utter wrongness of something I tend to be automatically sure of: Everything in my own immediate experience supports my deep belief that I am the absolute center of the universe, the realest, most vivid and important person in existence. We rarely talk about this sort of natural, basic self-centeredness, because it's so socially repulsive, but it's pretty much the same for all of us, deep down. It is our default-setting, hard-wired into our boards at birth. Think about it: There is no experience you've had that you were not at the absolute center of. The world as you experience it is right there in front of you, or behind you, to the left or right of you, on your TV, or your monitor, or whatever. Other people's thoughts and feelings have to be communicated to you somehow, but your own are so immediate, urgent, real -- you get the idea. But please don't worry that I'm getting ready to preach to you about compassion or other-directedness or the so-called "virtues." This is not a matter of virtue -- it's a matter of my choosing to do the work of somehow altering or getting free of my natural, hard-wired default-setting, which is to be deeply and literally self-centered, and to see and interpret everything through this lens of self.

People who can adjust their natural default-setting this way are often described as being "well adjusted," which I suggest to you is not an accidental term.

Given the triumphal academic setting here, an obvious question is how much of this work of adjusting our default-setting involves actual knowledge or intellect. This question gets tricky. Probably the most dangerous thing about college education, at least in my own case, is that it enables my tendency to over-intellectualize stuff, to get lost in abstract arguments inside my head instead of simply paying attention to what's going on right in front of me. Paying attention to what's going on inside me. As I'm sure you guys know by now, it is extremely difficult to stay alert and attentive instead of getting hypnotized by the constant monologue inside your own head. Twenty years after my own graduation, I have come gradually to understand that the liberal-arts cliché about "teaching you how to think" is actually shorthand for a much deeper, more serious idea: "Learning how to think" really means learning how to exercise some control over how and what you think. It means being conscious and aware enough to choose what you pay attention to and to choose how you construct meaning from experience. Because if you cannot exercise this kind of choice in adult life, you will be totally hosed. Think of the old cliché about "the mind being an excellent servant but a terrible master." This, like many clichés, so lame and unexciting on the surface, actually expresses a great and terrible truth. It is not the least bit coincidental that adults who commit suicide with firearms almost always shoot themselves in the head. And the truth is that most of these suicides are actually dead long before they pull the trigger. And I submit that this is what the real, no-bull- value of your liberal-arts education is supposed to be about: How to keep from going through your comfortable, prosperous, respectable adult life dead, unconscious, a slave to your head and to your natural default-setting of being uniquely, completely, imperially alone, day in and day out.

That may sound like hyperbole, or abstract nonsense. So let's get concrete. The plain fact is that you graduating seniors do not yet have any clue what "day in, day out" really means. There happen to be whole large parts of adult American life that nobody talks about in commencement speeches. One such part involves boredom, routine, and petty frustration. The parents and older folks here will know all too well what I'm talking about.

“The really important kind of freedom involves attention, and awareness, and discipline, and effort, and being able truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them, over and over, in myriad petty little unsexy ways, every day.”

By way of example, let's say it's an average day, and you get up in the morning, go to your challenging job, and you work hard for nine or ten hours, and at the end of the day you're tired, and you're stressed out, and all you want is to go home and have a good supper and maybe unwind for a couple of hours and then hit the rack early because you have to get up the next day and do it all again. But then you remember there's no food at home -- you haven't had time to shop this week, because of your challenging job -- and so now after work you have to get in your car and drive to the supermarket. It's the end of the workday, and the traffic's very bad, so getting to the store takes way longer than it should, and when you finally get there the supermarket is very crowded, because of course it's the time of day when all the other people with jobs also try to squeeze in some grocery shopping, and the store's hideously, fluorescently lit, and infused with soul-killing Muzak or corporate pop, and it's pretty much the last place you want to be, but you can't just get in and quickly out: You have to wander all over the huge, overlit store's crowded aisles to find the stuff you want, and you have to maneuver your junky cart through all these other tired, hurried people with carts, and of course there are also the glacially slow old people and the spacey people and the ADHD kids who all block the aisle and you have to grit your teeth and try to be polite as you ask them to let you by, and eventually, finally, you get all your supper supplies, except now it turns out there aren't enough checkout lanes open even though it's the end-of-the-day-rush, so the checkout line is incredibly long, which is stupid and infuriating, but you can't take your fury out on the frantic lady working the register.

Anyway, you finally get to the checkout line's front, and pay for your food, and wait to get your check or card authenticated by a machine, and then get told to "Have a nice day" in a voice that is the absolute voice of death, and then you have to take your creepy flimsy plastic bags of groceries in your cart through the crowded, bumpy, littery parking lot, and try to load the bags in your car in such a way that everything doesn't fall out of the bags and roll around in the trunk on the way home, and then you have to drive all the way home through slow, heavy, SUV-intensive rush-hour traffic, etcetera, etcetera.

The point is that petty, frustrating crap like this is exactly where the work of choosing comes in. Because the traffic jams and crowded aisles and long checkout lines give me time to think, and if I don't make a conscious decision about how to think and what to pay attention to, I'm going to be pissed and miserable every time I have to food-shop, because my natural default-setting is the certainty that situations like this are really all about me, about my hungriness and my fatigue and my desire to just get home, and it's going to seem, for all the world, like everybody else is just in my way, and who are all these people in my way? And look at how repulsive most of them are and how stupid and cow-like and dead-eyed and nonhuman they seem here in the checkout line, or at how annoying and rude it is that people are talking loudly on cell phones in the middle of the line, and look at how deeply unfair this is: I've worked really hard all day and I'm starved and tired and I can't even get home to eat and unwind because of all these stupid g-d- people.

Or, of course, if I'm in a more socially conscious form of my default-setting, I can spend time in the end-of-the-day traffic jam being angry and disgusted at all the huge, stupid, lane-blocking SUV's and Hummers and V-12 pickup trucks burning their wasteful, selfish, forty-gallon tanks of gas, and I can dwell on the fact that the patriotic or religious bumper stickers always seem to be on the biggest, most disgustingly selfish vehicles driven by the ugliest, most inconsiderate and aggressive drivers, who are usually talking on cell phones as they cut people off in order to get just twenty stupid feet ahead in a traffic jam, and I can think about how our children's children will despise us for wasting all the future's fuel and probably screwing up the climate, and how spoiled and stupid and disgusting we all are, and how it all just sucks, and so on and so forth...

Look, if I choose to think this way, fine, lots of us do -- except that thinking this way tends to be so easy and automatic it doesn't have to be a choice. Thinking this way is my natural default-setting. It's the automatic, unconscious way that I experience the boring, frustrating, crowded parts of adult life when I'm operating on the automatic, unconscious belief that I am the center of the world and that my immediate needs and feelings are what should determine the world's priorities. The thing is that there are obviously different ways to think about these kinds of situations. In this traffic, all these vehicles stuck and idling in my way: It's not impossible that some of these people in SUV's have been in horrible auto accidents in the past and now find driving so traumatic that their therapist has all but ordered them to get a huge, heavy SUV so they can feel safe enough to drive; or that the Hummer that just cut me off is maybe being driven by a father whose little child is hurt or sick in the seat next to him, and he's trying to rush to the hospital, and he's in a way bigger, more legitimate hurry than I am -- it is actually I who am in his way. Or I can choose to force myself to consider the likelihood that everyone else in the supermarket's checkout line is just as bored and frustrated as I am, and that some of these people probably have much harder, more tedious or painful lives than I do, overall.

Again, please don't think that I'm giving you moral advice, or that I'm saying you're "supposed to" think this way, or that anyone expects you to just automatically do it, because it's hard, it takes will and mental effort, and if you're like me, some days you won't be able to do it, or you just flat-out won't want to. But most days, if you're aware enough to give yourself a choice, you can choose to look differently at this fat, dead-eyed, over-made-lady who just screamed at her little child in the checkout line -- maybe she's not usually like this; maybe she's been up three straight nights holding the hand of her husband who's dying of bone cancer, or maybe this very lady is the low-wage clerk at the Motor Vehicles Dept. who just yesterday helped your spouse resolve a nightmarish red-tape problem through some small act of bureaucratic kindness. Of course, none of this is likely, but it's also not impossible -- it just depends on what you want to consider. If you're automatically sure that you know what reality is and who and what is really important -- if you want to operate on your default-setting -- then you, like me, will not consider possibilities that aren't pointless and annoying. But if you've really learned how to think, how to pay attention, then you will know you have other options. It will actually be within your power to experience a crowded, loud, slow, consumer-hell-type situation as not only meaningful but sacred, on fire with the same force that lit the stars -- compassion, love, the sub-surface unity of all things. Not that that mystical stuff's necessarily true: The only thing that's capital-T True is that you get to decide how you're going to try to see it. You get to consciously decide what has meaning and what doesn't. You get to decide what to worship...


Because here's something else that's true. In the day-to-day trenches of adult life, there is actually no such thing as atheism. There is no such thing as not worshipping. Everybody worships. The only choice we get is what to worship. And an outstanding reason for choosing some sort of God or spiritual-type thing to worship -- be it J.C. or Allah, be it Yahweh or the Wiccan mother-goddess or the Four Noble Truths or some infrangible set of ethical principles -- is that pretty much anything else you worship will eat you alive. If you worship money and things -- if they are where you tap real meaning in life -- then you will never have enough. Never feel you have enough. It's the truth. Worship your own body and beauty and sexual allure and you will always feel ugly, and when time and age start showing, you will die a million deaths before they finally plant you. On one level, we all know this stuff already -- it's been codified as myths, proverbs, clichés, bromides, epigrams, parables: the skeleton of every great story. The trick is keeping the truth up-front in daily consciousness. Worship power -- you will feel weak and afraid, and you will need ever more power over others to keep the fear at bay. Worship your intellect, being seen as smart -- you will end up feeling stupid, a fraud, always on the verge of being found out. And so on.

Look, the insidious thing about these forms of worship is not that they're evil or sinful; it is that they are unconscious. They are default-settings. They're the kind of worship you just gradually slip into, day after day, getting more and more selective about what you see and how you measure value without ever being fully aware that that's what you're doing. And the world will not discourage you from operating on your default-settings, because the world of men and money and power hums along quite nicely on the fuel of fear and contempt and frustration and craving and the worship of self. Our own present culture has harnessed these forces in ways that have yielded extraordinary wealth and comfort and personal freedom. The freedom to be lords of our own tiny skull-sized kingdoms, alone at the center of all creation. This kind of freedom has much to recommend it. But of course there are all different kinds of freedom, and the kind that is most precious you will not hear much talked about in the great outside world of winning and achieving and displaying. The really important kind of freedom involves attention, and awareness, and discipline, and effort, and being able truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them, over and over, in myriad petty little unsexy ways, every day. That is real freedom. The alternative is unconsciousness, the default-setting, the "rat race" -- the constant gnawing sense of having had and lost some infinite thing.

I know that this stuff probably doesn't sound fun and breezy or grandly inspirational. What it is, so far as I can see, is the truth with a whole lot of rhetorical bullshit pared away. Obviously, you can think of it whatever you wish. But please don't dismiss it as some finger-wagging Dr. Laura sermon. None of this is about morality, or religion, or dogma, or big fancy questions of life after death. The capital-T Truth is about life before death. It is about making it to 30, or maybe 50, without wanting to shoot yourself in the head. It is about simple awareness -- awareness of what is so real and essential, so hidden in plain sight all around us, that we have to keep reminding ourselves, over and over: "This is water, this is water."

It is unimaginably hard to do this, to stay conscious and alive, day in and day out.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1221782 ... %3Darticle


it even addresses some of the more recent quips.

*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
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Re: Theophobia

Postby The Consul » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:07 pm

"People of god feed on people of earth..."

" Morals is the butter for those who have no bread."
— B. Traven
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Re: Theophobia

Postby barracuda » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:15 pm

Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
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Re: Theophobia

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:15 pm

hanshan wrote:..

The Consul wrote:
MacCruiskeen wrote:No, Consul, it's not like that at all.

PS I like Carlin, but I don't worship him. And it's further proof that any scripture, including Saint George's, can be cherrypicked to spread confusion.



Abashment, however it is coded, is only a two way mirror held by souls that spright themselves a secret station, only to be apprenticed to all who obviate their wiles.



good call

...


I'm going to call your bluff, hanshan, and then The Consul's:

Why "good call"? Exactly what did the Consul mean by that, if anything?

Because I submit that it is a smokescreen: a piece of pretentious, fraudulent and strictly meaningless verbiage, and of no relevance whatsoever to the post it purports to reply to or to the issue at hand.

Thank you.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
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Re: Theophobia

Postby Canadian_watcher » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:42 pm

barracuda wrote:
Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.


I don't know where you got that, but it could just as easily be from any religion as it is from any propaganda machine of State or corporation.

The salient point is this: no matter what its origin, that text was most probably written by a man funded and motivated by "rationalists." (for want of a better term).

EDIT: one history of the translations of the bible: http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/
Last edited by Canadian_watcher on Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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