What constitutes Misogyny?

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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Stephen Morgan » Sat May 28, 2011 11:41 am

The court decision is available here: http://scc.lexum.org/en/2011/2011scc28/2011scc28.html

Actually, what I said about the danger to S&M enthusiasts seem to be what happened here:

One evening, in the course of sexual relations, J.A. placed his hands around the throat of his long‑term partner K.D. and choked her until she was unconscious. At trial, K.D. estimated that she was unconscious for “less than three minutes”. She testified that she consented to J.A. choking her, and understood that she might lose consciousness. She stated that she and J.A. had experimented with erotic asphyxiation, and that she had lost consciousness before. When K.D. regained consciousness, her hands were tied behind her back, and J.A. was inserting a dildo into her anus. K.D. gave conflicting testimony about whether this was the first time J.A. had inserted a dildo in her anus. J.A. removed the dildo ten seconds after she regained consciousness. The two then had vaginal intercourse. When they finished, J.A. cut K.D.’s hands loose.

K.D. made a complaint to the police two months later and stated that while she consented to the choking, she had not consented to the sexual activity that had occurred. She later recanted her allegation, claiming that she made the complaint because J.A. threatened to seek sole custody of their young son. The trial judge convicted J.A. of sexual assault. A majority of the Court of Appeal allowed the appeal, set aside the conviction and dismissed the charges against J.A.


What, you don't have juries in Canada?

Anyway, the complaint, if true, was about the sexual activity that took place, the continuation of activity during the unconsciousness brought about by their perverted experimentation was merely a pretext to keep a man in prison when the actual complaint has been recanted.

From the minority judgement:

The provisions of the Criminal Code regarding consent to sexual contact and the case law were intended to protect women against abuse by others. They aim to safeguard and enhance the sexual autonomy of women, and not to make choices for them.

It is a well‑established principle that the complainant’s genuine consent precludes a finding of sexual assault. There is nothing in the Criminal Code that indicates that Parliament has considered or adopted a statutory exception to this principle which would vitiate consent to unconscious sexual activity. Indeed, the wording of s. 273.1(2)(e) of the Criminal Code suggests that the complainant’s consent can be given in advance, as it was in this case, and remains operative unless and until it is subsequently revoked. Upon regaining consciousness, K.D. did not revoke her prior consent to the sexual conduct in issue — which was then still ongoing. And it has not been suggested that she had earlier revoked her consent by words or conduct, or even in her own mind.

A person cannot, while unconscious, consent or revoke consent. However, it hardly follows, that consenting adults cannot, as a matter of law, willingly and consciously agree to engage in a sexual practice involving transitory unconsciousness — on the ground that, during the brief period of that consensually induced mental state, they will be unable to consent to doing what they have already consented to do. There is no factual or legal basis for holding that the complainant’s prior consent, otherwise operative throughout, was temporarily rendered inoperative during the few minutes of her voluntary unconsciousness. It was not suspended by the fact that she had rendered herself incapable of revoking the consent she had chosen, freely and consciously, not to revoke either immediately before or immediately after the brief interval of her unconsciousness. The complainant’s prior consent to the activity in question constituted a valid consent only to the contemplated activity. In the absence of any evidence that J.A.’s conduct exceeded the scope of the complainant’s consent, or caused her bodily harm that would vitiate her consent at common law, there is no basis in the provisions of the Criminal Code for concluding that the complainant’s consent in fact was not a valid consent in law.


Rape is sex without consent. What we have here is sex with consent. And a man in jail because he had sex with a fully consenting woman who was into kinky stuff and then sought custody of their child. After he had previously been convicted for throwing insults. If you're really interested in what might cause misogyny, I'd say this bloke has a few motives for misogyny right there.
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Canadian_watcher » Sat May 28, 2011 12:10 pm

Stephen Morgan wrote:What, you don't have juries in Canada?


One can elect to be tried by judge alone.

Stephen Morgan wrote:Anyway, the complaint, if true, was about the sexual activity that took place, the continuation of activity during the unconsciousness brought about by their perverted experimentation was merely a pretext to keep a man in prison when the actual complaint has been recanted.


She had been beaten by the man previously - prosecutors rightly continued the prosecution based on their belief that she recanted under duress or perceived threat. Besides, as if you know the MOTIVATION of this woman. Please. Go peddle your bullshit to your men's activist woman haters club friends.

From the minority judgement:

The provisions of the Criminal Code regarding consent to sexual contact and the case law were intended to protect women against abuse by others. They aim to safeguard and enhance the sexual autonomy of women, and not to make choices for them.

It is a well‑established principle that the complainant’s genuine consent precludes a finding of sexual assault. There is nothing in the Criminal Code that indicates that Parliament has considered or adopted a statutory exception to this principle which would vitiate consent to unconscious sexual activity.


maybe not in the criminal code - it's one of those things like how they dont spell out every possible method of killing someone but instead opt to say that Killing is illegal. RAPE is illegal, and if one cannot give consent (in this case she could not have unconsciously given consent to having her hands tied or to ANY activity, being that she had passed out.) then one has been raped.

Whoever these judges are need to pull their heads out of their asses. Or maybe they just need to be 'into consensual kinky sex' with a partner and pass out from playful asphyxiation only to come back to consciousness bound and gagged in the back of a van being screwed up the arse by a burly dude while their chosen partner masturbates to it in the corner, cameras rolling. Let's see how they would like their 'minority opinion' at that point. As they say:


Stephen Morgan wrote:A person cannot, while unconscious, consent or revoke consent. However, [b]it hardly follows, that consenting adults cannot, as a matter of law, willingly and consciously agree to engage in a sexual practice involving transitory unconsciousness — on the ground that, during the brief period of that consensually induced mental state, they will be unable to consent to doing what they have already consented to do.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Stephen Morgan » Sat May 28, 2011 12:40 pm

Canadian_watcher wrote:
Stephen Morgan wrote:What, you don't have juries in Canada?


One can elect to be tried by judge alone.


Judge-only trials have higher conviction rates. Very unwise decision.

Stephen Morgan wrote:Anyway, the complaint, if true, was about the sexual activity that took place, the continuation of activity during the unconsciousness brought about by their perverted experimentation was merely a pretext to keep a man in prison when the actual complaint has been recanted.


She had been beaten by the man previously - prosecutors rightly continued the prosecution based on their belief that she recanted under duress or perceived threat.


She had not been beaten, she'd had her door kicked down. Not a very nice thing to do, but let's not act like she was under constant threat of death and living a life of cowering terror.

Besides, as if you know the MOTIVATION of this woman. Please. Go peddle your bullshit to your men's activist woman haters club friends.


Well, I know what she specifically said in sworn testimony before the supreme court was her motivation. I know the only grounds not to believe her would be to assume that a couple of incidents of domestic violence, neither of which actually involved her being hit, intimidated her so much that she was more terrified of a man who was about to go to prison than she was of a court that could put her behind bars for years for perjury. I mean, she wasn't too scared to go to the police, she wasn't too scared to testify that he put a dildo in her while she was unconscious, which is the testimony that put him in prison, so what makes you think it's fear that has made her say the rest?

From the minority judgement:

The provisions of the Criminal Code regarding consent to sexual contact and the case law were intended to protect women against abuse by others. They aim to safeguard and enhance the sexual autonomy of women, and not to make choices for them.

It is a well‑established principle that the complainant’s genuine consent precludes a finding of sexual assault. There is nothing in the Criminal Code that indicates that Parliament has considered or adopted a statutory exception to this principle which would vitiate consent to unconscious sexual activity.


maybe not in the criminal code - it's one of those things like how they dont spell out every possible method of killing someone but instead opt to say that Killing is illegal. RAPE is illegal, and if one cannot give consent (in this case she could not have unconsciously given consent to having her hands tied or to ANY activity, being that she had passed out.) then one has been raped.


She gave consent to having sex while being throttled, explicitly taking into account the possibility of unconsciousness. As the judgement says, she didn't revoke consent either before or after the period of unconsciousness (the original claim was that she didn't consent to the sex they had after she woke up, that's what she recanted on, but not what he's going down for).

Whoever these judges are need to pull their heads out of their asses. Or maybe they just need to be 'into consensual kinky sex' with a partner and pass out from playful asphyxiation only to come back to consciousness bound and gagged in the back of a van being screwed up the arse by a burly dude while their chosen partner masturbates to it in the corner, cameras rolling.


There's nothing playful about asphyxiation. A significant reduction in blood supply to the brain is needed to produce the sought-after heightening of sensation, which is why so many people die as a result of it, with plastic bags taped over their heads. That was her choice, that the gain is worth the pain. Obviously a partner can stop where a plastic bag can't.

Let's see how they would like their 'minority opinion' at that point. As they say:
Stephen Morgan wrote:A person cannot, while unconscious, consent or revoke consent. However, [b]it hardly follows, that consenting adults cannot, as a matter of law, willingly and consciously agree to engage in a sexual practice involving transitory unconsciousness — on the ground that, during the brief period of that consensually induced mental state, they will be unable to consent to doing what they have already consented to do.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby JackRiddler » Sat May 28, 2011 10:38 pm


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ma ... -femicides

Honduran police turn a blind eye to soaring number of 'femicides'

Women are being murdered at the rate of one a day, yet a report by Oxfam accuses the police of 'systematic indifference'

Annie Kelly in Tegucigalpa
The Observer, Sunday 29 May 2011

According to those who loved her, Grace González was a hard-working, happy woman who liked to laugh too loudly and dress too brightly. Her enchiladas, she declared, were the best in the barrio. Last month, neighbours watched in silence as her bloodstained body was wheeled out of the front door of the small house she shared with her two daughters on the outskirts of the Honduran capital of Tegucigalpa.

Hours earlier, a man had come into her house and tried to rape her 15-year-old daughter, Rosa. When Grace tried to protect her child, he held her down and slit her throat. Almost a month after she buried her mother, Rosa says she doesn't expect justice. What she does expect is for her mother's murderer to come back and kill her too.

"I told the police that I knew the man and saw him kill my mother, but since then they have done nothing. There is no investigation. They tell me that he has left Honduras but I don't believe them," she says.

"Now this man knows I went to the police so he will come back and kill me too. There is nobody who will stop him. Women die here all the time and nobody does anything."

Women are being killed in Honduras at a rate of one a day in a wave of gender-based murders – or "femicide". Gender-based violence is now the second highest cause of death for women of reproductive age in this tiny Central American country. Human rights campaigners say that more than 2,000 women like Grace have been killed in the past five years.

A report launched by Oxfam Honduras and a Honduran NGO, the Tribunal of Women Against Femicide, says that women are dying because of a deadly mixture of gun crime, political instability and the "systematic indifference" of the police. Convictions for these crimes are rare – between 2008 and 2010, there were 1,110 reported cases of femicide, yet only 211 made it to court. Only 4.2% of these cases resulted in a conviction.

The report says the number of women being killed in Honduras has dramatically spiked since a rightwing military coup deposed President Manuel Zelaya in July 2009. Yesterday, Zelaya returned to the country after two years in exile, in a move that sparked nationwide celebration and hopes for a return to order.

But in the month after the coup, there was a 60% rise in the number of femicides, with the bodies of more than 50 women found in the two largest cities, Tegucigalpa and San Pedro Sula.

The report also accuses the new government of Porfirio "Pepe" Lobo, voted in three months after the coup, of inaction and complicity in the growing wave of murders.

"Since the coup in July 2009, we've seen a sharp rise in gender-based killings, with many of these crimes simply going unreported," says Maritza Gallardo of Oxfam Honduras. "We don't even really know just how many women are being killed because families of victims are afraid to report violence and murders because they realise the legal system gives impunity to those responsible for the killings."

A surge in violent crime is also claiming the lives of hundreds of Honduran women as Central America's notorious Mara gangs extend their power.

"In many cases the women who die are not directly involved in gangs, drug-dealing or commercial sex work. In most cases they are the victims of vengeance attacks, carried out to send a message to male family members," says Gallardo. "In other cases, family members have identified members of the police as the executors of these murders, killing women as retaliation for gang attacks on police officers. The lives of these women are simply seen as collateral damage as gang violence gets worse."

For many women the only chance of survival is to flee the country. Luisa Silva, 21, spoke to the Observer from an immigration lawyer's office in San Antonio, Texas. She says she was raped, beaten and threatened over a two-year period after she spurned the advances of an influential businessman.

"After he beat and raped me for the second time, I went to the police, who said they would do nothing and that I should do what the man wanted," she says. "After that the violence got worse. He threatened to kill my family. There was nobody to protect me or help me, so the only option I had was to run."

She was recently granted asylum by an American judge. "There are many women with the same story as me in Honduras, but most of them die," she says. "If I had stayed, I'd be dead too."

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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby blanc » Sun May 29, 2011 1:53 am

So, is the world becoming a more hostile place for women - are women more routinely seen as readily disposable victims who can't/won't cause any collateral damage by defending themselves or being defended, or does it just seem that way?
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby JackRiddler » Sun May 29, 2011 9:44 pm


http://story.irishsun.com/index.php/ct/ ... 89300/cs/1

Mexico women activists demand safe abortion

Irish Sun
Sunday 29th May, 2011
(IANS)


Activists from more than 40 civil organisations protested in Mexico City to demand that the federal government permit abortion nationwide as a woman's right to decide about her own body.

'Deciding is not a crime, it is a right...we're not reproduction machines, we're women with the right to decide' were some of the slogans chanted by the close to 100 women protesting outside the federal health ministry.

Federal law states that interrupting a pregnancy is legal only if the mother's life is in danger, if the foetus is deformed or if the pregnancy was caused by rape or an unauthorised artificial insemination.

If none of those conditions exist, abortion can bring penalties for the woman who authorises it and the doctor who performs it, except in the Mexican capital, governed by the left, where abortion is allowed up to the 12th week of gestation, a procedure that was legalized in 2007 and to which more than 54,000 women have had recourse since then.

Martha Juarez, spokeswoman for the National Pact for Life, Liberty and Women's Rights - made up of more than 40 organisations - said that 'thousands of Mexican women are denied their right to health as well as their sexual and reproductive rights, which should be theirs without exclusions or restrictions all their lives'.

According to the activist, the criminalisation of abortion has prevented trustworthy, up-to-date records from being kept on the number of interrupted pregnancies in this country and the frequency of complications and deaths from that cause.

A total of 15 state legislatures have anti-abortion laws, and all they have achieved 'is an increase in the number of women jailed for interruption of pregnancy', Juarez said.

'It's not fair that many are in jail because of a national strategy by parties of the right, working together with the Catholic Church, to ban this right of women at any cost,' she said.

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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby wintler2 » Mon May 30, 2011 6:35 pm

French minister resigns after being accused of sexual assault

..The two women, aged 34 and 36, have lodged complaints with the public prosecutor, claiming Tron assaulted them between 2007 and 2010 while they worked at the town hall in Draveil, south of Paris, where he is the mayor.

The women claim the assaults started after Tron, who says he is a qualified reflexologist, offered to give the women foot massages. They say it was the arrest of Strauss-Kahn that encouraged them to come forward. "When I see that a little chambermaid is capable of taking on Dominique Strauss-Kahn, I told myself I did not have the right to stay silent," one of them told a French newspaper.

"Other women have perhaps suffered what I have suffered. I have to help them. We have to smash this omerta."


The Strauss-Kahn affair has triggered soul-searching in France about sex and power. After the shock and disbelief of the arrest of the man nicknamed the Great Seducer, French pundits have been questioning whether strict privacy laws and alleged media complicity have enabled politicians and celebrities to get away with unacceptable behaviour. Sunday's edition of the Journal du Dimanche wrote of a "before and an after DSK" (as Strauss-Kahn is known in France).
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby vanlose kid » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:25 am

The Naipaul test: Can you tell an author's sex?

In an interview at the Royal Geographic Society this week, during which VS Naipaul provoked fury by suggesting that women writers are 'sentimental' and 'unequal to me', he also claimed that 'I read a piece of writing and within a paragraph or two I know whether it is by a woman or not.' Do you?

QUIZ


my score: 6/10. "sloppy thinking, you should read more books by males authors".

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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Stephen Morgan » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:44 am

I thought all of those seemed extremely girly, I got 3/10.
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Canadian_watcher » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:54 pm

I got 5/10.

It was a really stupid thing of VS to say. I mean .. come on. Even here on the BB people are continually surprised to discover a poster is female. It's like we all default to male.
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby wallflower » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:36 pm

I got 5 out of 10, exactly what I would expect because I don't think I can tell within a paragraph whether the writer is a woman or a man. On the other hand I do think, painting with a broad brush, that women commentators care more about education, children and other living things and tend to write more along these lines. Somewhere I read an observation something like men think that because there are two women in their blog feeds half of the blogs they read are written by women. While I've got more than 2 in my blog feeds I'm surprised how disproportionately male the blogs I read are. My impression, not rigorously tested, is that my Twitter stream is somewhat less skewed.
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:18 pm

.

Naipaul has made a career of pleasing conservatives by issuing "controversial" provocations to the imagined tyranny of the politically correct left, or by endorsing imperialism straight up. This sells with the conservatives, insofar as they go for high-lit at all; but it does even better with a species of self-flagellate convinced they are the politically correct left, even though they, too, are conservative.

This is a ridiculous exercise because above a certain level of writing skill there is no way you can tell. A good writer should always be able to do the opposite gender's typical voice. And of course the test-makers are going to pick misleading passages. I skimmed, answered at random, and got 2/10. I'm disappointed I didn't hit zero.

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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Stephen Morgan » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:07 pm

Canadian_watcher wrote:I got 5/10.

It was a really stupid thing of VS to say. I mean .. come on. Even here on the BB people are continually surprised to discover a poster is female. It's like we all default to male.

Maybe he can tell. I did initially think you were male. Barracuda, on the other hand, I assumed to be female. My less-than-pure-chance record on this test is not an incident in isolation.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible. -- Lawrence of Arabia
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby wintler2 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:33 pm

My first response is 'what a wanker (VSN is)', but he's more: getting everyone thinking about 'can you guess the gender' is unlikely to improve actual communication, it is tilling the ground so all sorts of divisive weeds can increase their hold.
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Re: What constitutes Misogyny?

Postby Stephen Morgan » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:12 pm

http://www.facebook.com/CBSNews/posts/1 ... noscript=1

Comments are always the most interesting bit.
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