What constitutes Misogyny?

[Canadian_watcher]

Well, you tell me which is evidence of the greater misogyny, a woman advocating some sort of sex slavery, a position so outre that it gets denounced even in Kuwait, or the tacit assumption that women playing away from home isn't a problem, based as it is on the belief that women are not full human beings subject to the same weaknesses and faults as the rest of us.

eh? Sure you didn't set off for Nottingham and end up in Lincoln there Stephen?

That happened once. Went to the wrong platform. But no, I'm just pointing out the unexamined misogyny inherent in complaining about some mad woman going on about concubinage while implicitly accepting the gender bias of the underlying assumptions, namely that women are magical passive beings rather than humans.

I do not believe anyone was accepting ANY gender bias associated with that story (and there are many).
Quite the opposite is the case.

Are you as troubled, I find myself asking against my better judgement, by the gender bias in that story which suggests that men must not be expected to be monogamous?

[Laodicean]

[wintler2]

eh? Sure you didn't set off for Nottingham and end up in Lincoln there Stephen?

Nothing new there.

The idea that adultery by either sex is something 'we' should stop is so last millenia, but thats christianity for you.
On edit: not just christianity of course, but i believe that is the control system most relevant to Stephen.

[Stephen Morgan]

Well, you tell me which is evidence of the greater misogyny, a woman advocating some sort of sex slavery, a position so outre that it gets denounced even in Kuwait, or the tacit assumption that women playing away from home isn't a problem, based as it is on the belief that women are not full human beings subject to the same weaknesses and faults as the rest of us.

eh? Sure you didn't set off for Nottingham and end up in Lincoln there Stephen?

That happened once. Went to the wrong platform. But no, I'm just pointing out the unexamined misogyny inherent in complaining about some mad woman going on about concubinage while implicitly accepting the gender bias of the underlying assumptions, namely that women are magical passive beings rather than humans.

I do not believe anyone was accepting ANY gender bias associated with that story (and there are many).
Quite the opposite is the case.

Are you as troubled, I find myself asking against my better judgement, by the gender bias in that story which suggests that men must not be expected to be monogamous?

I see it as a more active assumption that men won't be monogamous. She's not saying "men needn't be monogamous" but rather "men won't be monogamous anyway".

[Stephen Morgan]

http://www.slate.com/id/2152487/

"How the web prevents rape"

Couldn't think of another thread where it would be more relevant.

[Canadian_watcher]

Are you as troubled, I find myself asking against my better judgement, by the gender bias in that story which suggests that men must not be expected to be monogamous?

I see it as a more active assumption that men won't be monogamous. She's not saying "men needn't be monogamous" but rather "men won't be monogamous anyway".

So that doesn't bother you then?

[Stephen Morgan]

Are you as troubled, I find myself asking against my better judgement, by the gender bias in that story which suggests that men must not be expected to be monogamous?

I see it as a more active assumption that men won't be monogamous. She's not saying "men needn't be monogamous" but rather "men won't be monogamous anyway".

So that doesn't bother you then?

Of course that bothers me.

[Canadian_watcher]

^ excellent.

[Joe Hillshoist]

[Canadian_watcher]

I've been living in a construction zone since last spring. I work from home and it is HIGHLY disruptive. Not to mention that the streets are in terrible, dangerous repair and are not properly marked. This project was supposed to be completed in September of 2010. It's kind of a nightmare.

Anyway, today I walked about the zone with my camera and finally went and talked to the construction guys. The one dude told me who the foreman was, so I went over to him. Here's what happened:



I am not proud of how easily flustered I got with this guy.. I mean he completely managed to divert my train of thought. Anyway, this is just an example of how women are routinely treated, especially by old guys who think they are the shit. Ask yourself how this asshole might have reacted had it been my husband and not me asking the questions.

[norton ash]

Rude treatment. I assume I'd get the same as a man, though, and I've had similar, from both men and women... in powerful unions, shady enterprises, or in the 'skilled trades'.

These are construction people, C_W, they hate nimbys, greens, and people who ask questions about blown deadlines and how exactly they go about their jobs. It's authoritarian, closed and patriarchal*, and you'll always get the fuck-off-and-mind-your-own-business from 'em. And they'll know if you're 'one of them' or else they'll treat you as a hostile. (You'd be treated more warmly if you said 'If you lost a yard of fill behind 117 I could lose $40 in the mailbox.')

Like the old joke... how many Teamsters does it take to move a chair?

Three. You got a problem with that?

*bolded to agree that there's patriarchal sickness at the core, but a man would probably have been ignored and belittled just as badly, unless he led off by implying the fuckin' City or the fuckin' government is responsible for the delays, and asking when you boys think you might be finished.

I think if I tried a Michael Moore on these guys I'd be at risk of physical harm in my Canadian town. Because I do believe the foreman would have more friends, relatives and hockey pals on the force than I do. I know if I went to a City Councillor, he/she would hate me for it, and probably joke with their pals at the contractor's about the whiner.

So is this an example of misogyny, or evidence of the prevailing contempt for the gentle, concerned, aggrieved, and assertive citizen who makes trouble for those with power?

EDIT: Realize as well that bureaucracy symbiotically makes work and kickbacks for itself and its friends, while allowing the contractors to bleed the system white. There's yer delays. They'll usually blame it on Environmental Assessment and Impact studies, btw.

YET ANOTHER EDIT: Maybe it IS misogyny, as a man would be assessed as a hippie faggot not-man for bugging the real men at work.

[Canadian_watcher]

yeah well this is one of those things, I guess. We can't re-do the exact situation with a guy in my place, so it'll just remain a mystery.

I do find it pretty hard to believe that he would have called a big guy "lippy" right off the bat like that. But you never do know.

[norton ash]

I do find it pretty hard to believe that he would have called a big guy "lippy" right off the bat like that. But you never do know.

You're absolutely right. Those would be fighting words to a big guy, and the foreman would know it.

[Canadian_watcher]

off topic update just to get it off my chest:

I HATE being the squeaky wheel but I have to admit I willingly keep doing it. I do it because I like the end results. Time after time it works. This world is bananas.

Yesterday after that little incident on video, I went home and wrote a notice for all the neighbours and handed them out. I took lots of pictures of the dangers and filth at the site (which is open to the public and really, I think, should have been closed.) Anyway.. After having waited a full month for a response from the City to my previous call and email (just one of each) suddenly everything sprang into action.

After weeks of there only being two or three men on the site, there were many more last night and a whole crew this morning.

God damn though. Some of my neighbours saw fit to chastise me for being argumentative even though everyone I have casually spoken to over the past two years while walking my dog has been furious over the whole thing.

You'd really think I'd have a thicker skin by now but I still feel slightly ashamed when in some ways I should be proud.

Perhaps it is the social messaging women get when they stand up to be counted. Nice girls don't, you see.

[Project Willow]

Apparently the Westboro Baptist Church is going to attend our Slutwalk in Seattle this weekend.

http://slutwalkseattle.com/protesting