Mansplaining

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Re: Mansplaining

Postby Krysos » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:51 pm

Project Willow wrote:
As for you, Krysos, I just really can't get worked up to give a flying fig what you think, or any other openly misogynist derp bag at the moment. Yeah, that's an insult.

It's subtle, but I really think this was a personal attack directed at me, Dr. Violin

Not that I expect anything to happen of course. PW is a crusader for social justice and I'm just some random misogynist derp bag who's misguided and whining. Lovely place to have a discussion here, especially when you agree with what all the most prominent posters say. When you disagree? Not so much.
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby Krysos » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:21 pm

C2W, I'll try to get to compiling a list later. I do think it's important to say here that I think you're wrong in your assumption that personal insults are somehow part of adult discussions. Just look at the way Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and the like are able to poison discussions with personal insults and innuendo if you really need an example. Insults are NOT part of a reasonable discussion because they are not based on REASON, they are based on fear and loathing, and they deny the humanity that is present in all of us. While I realize that we are not always capable of living up to our most gleaming star child potentials, I still feel that once a discussion has devolved into personal attacks, progress is very much not likely. Of course, I share your loathing for the sort of politeness thru gritted teeth that you describe as well, so I suppose it's a difficult nut to crack.
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby compared2what? » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:23 pm

Krysos. You HAVE TO BE KIDDING.


You got called some names. And you don't like me. And that's the whole of the remaining case against mansplaining that hasn't yet been rebutted, evidently.

Win for the ladies, I'd say.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby barracuda » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:28 pm

Krysos wrote:
barracuda wrote:Take your inane perspective to a men's rights forum or start your own thread, you misguided individual. You don't even have the wherewithal to defend your own misguided statements, or apparently to even try to. You're disrupting the thread. Get lost, troll. Be gone.


Wherewithal and time are two separate things.


Not always. Wherewithal is simply the necessity of means required to accomplish a desired end. The needed means might be money, geographic location, common sense, ability, or any number of similar or dissimilar resources without which that end cannot be confidently approached or brought to resolution. Abundance of time could easily be included among such obligatories, such as you would seem to be insisting in this case to be have been previously lacking.

The fact that you've decided some full seven days since your reinstatement here (with an added two weeks before that since the event of my original comments to you, making it a grand total of nearly three full work weeks in between the impetus of my post above and your responding submission) to take up the task of clarification strikes me as conspicuously dilatory. I realize, though, that people are busy. And since you've now decided the time has ripened for a riposte, it would seem expedient to get on with it, and demonstrate just how you would reply to my earlier point-by-point dissection of your post which ended so yearningly with a request for redress, "Do I have this about right?"

I did my part, as I understood the question, and was unhappily rewarded in return with your supposition that I was

    "...probably just too busy patting yourself on the back for empowering women by telling them that have no power. Such chivalry."

So if you actually have, now, sufficient wherewithal, having finally buckled together the resources to make clear your stance on these things (which it certainly appears you have, judging by the number of your various postings over the last two days on other matters), and feel no barrier, apparently, to regressing back to those heady, younger days of thread repartee, then head freely on, and make your feelings known.

Because otherwise I'm at a loss as to why you decided to bump the thread, if not to answer my earlier answer within the luxury of your new-found time.

Krysos wrote:I don't react well to condescension and scorn, as I'm sure most people don't.


I'm a reasonable man. If I feel it proper to cast my scorn, it could only be due to encountering what I feel in perfect reason to be scornful ideas or behaviors. That's only fair and right, isn't it?

It may not always seem to be the case, but I rarely, if ever, act out of spitefulness in my dealings here. My desire was really a selfless one - to help you be a better and more valuable member of this community. If, in order that this eventuality might transpire, I should see the need to resort to a show of contempt, you can be assured that it is not from a stance of hurtfulness, but rather of deliverance. "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell," so says the old king, son of a king. And though I do not hold with corporal beating, in this context there may prove profit from the employment of such small stings. At least that has been my experience. Because when a man is wrong, and shows himself not liable to right such a wrong on his own because he feels no distress by the repetition of these errors, even to the cries of his fellows, he ought be helped in his journey by the smart of an occasional thistle in his freewheeling. It's only right and kind.

Krysos wrote:I'm not a troll.


That's all well and good that you should make that clear in your words, if not your actions, though I'm hard-pressed to find agreeing evidence in either at the moment.

Krysos wrote:I've been reading this forum since 2006 or so and the blog since around 2004 I think.


A fine chronology, but a confusing one in terms of your evident astonishment at being so ill met after the presentation of your resume of notions. It's not as if these topics are new here, after all. And surely if they really take your interest as much as they seem to, you must be aware that they are likely hard fought, even to the point of some rare, rare instances of scorn, condescension or even glad redemption.

Krysos wrote:I have no hidden agenda and I'm not some agent of misinformation.


Everyone hides agendas. There are no open books in anonymity. Regarding the veracity of the information you see fit to disseminate, the prick of chastisement that has you grumbling should be a clue that it may not ring true to some of your peers. But deliberate misinformation is certainly a different matter than simple misguidedness, though one may in fact be as dangerous as another in unfortunate circumstances.

Krysos wrote:I also don't appreciate being called misogynistic or otherwise pigeon-holed.


All the holes here are self-carved. If you find yourself thrust birdlike into a nest not of your liking, you are surely the master of your fate. The forum is your oyster! Creating your compartment anew is the easiest thing imaginable - it takes only to set your comportment to it.

Krysos wrote:I don't care if you think I'm misguided, but I think it's sad to see that one of the more open forums that I've found is so close minded about certain things as to excuse bullying and name calling.


If you mean to take the description of "troll" as name-calling, I would disagree. The word has a definite meaning and is by no means simply an aspersion. As to other, more pointedly caustic classifications, surely an element of frustration is to blame, a share of which you ought to be able to shoulder lightly.

Krysos wrote: I would much rather see ideas discussed rather than personal rivalries and unfounded accusations.


Um. In that case, I apologize for any discomfort I may have personally caused you which has interfered with your ability to openly discuss the subject at hand. Let us begin fresh! I am composed almost entirely of ears, and best of luck with that.
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby compared2what? » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:33 pm

Krysos wrote:C2W, I'll try to get to compiling a list later.


I can't wait. Because if there's one thing I really love, it's having someone who hasn't made a single on-topic post or justified complaint burst out of nowhere throwing around complaints about how personally victimized he is as a poster to this board, every one of which evaporates when you inquire about it, until the only thing he's got left is an unsupported personal attack on me that's been made on this board about a million times before without ever once being substantiated by anything or anybody.

I really feel for you, Krysos. It must be terrible to know that you're being personally persecuted, just for your opinions.

I do think it's important to say here that I think you're wrong in your assumption that personal insults are somehow part of adult discussions.


Yeah. I didn't exactly say that. As I think you know. If you can tell me how you've been silenced by being called a misogynist or a dick, get back to me.

Just look at the way Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and the like are able to poison discussions with personal insults and innuendo if you really need an example. Insults are NOT part of a reasonable discussion because they are not based on REASON, they are based on fear and loathing, and they deny the humanity that is present in all of us. While I realize that we are not always capable of living up to our most gleaming star child potentials, I still feel that once a discussion has devolved into personal attacks, progress is very much not likely. Of course, I share your loathing for the sort of politeness thru gritted teeth that you describe as well, so I suppose it's a difficult nut to crack.


I wouldn't say I loathe it. It has its place.

I'm out of things to say.

Cheers.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:38 pm

compared2what? wrote:
Krysos wrote:C2W, I'll try to get to compiling a list later.


I can't wait. Because if there's one thing I really love, it's having someone who hasn't made a single on-topic post or justified complaint burst out of nowhere throwing around complaints about how personally victimized he is as a poster to this board, every one of which evaporates when you inquire about it, until the only thing he's got left is an unsupported personal attack on me that's been made on this board about a million times before without ever once being substantiated by anything or anybody.


Can you really say a MILLION? More like 130, I'd estimate. This is the kind of rhetoric that makes you so evil!

And Krysos is one of the most victimized posters ever!
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby Krysos » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:47 pm

compared2what? wrote:Krysos. You HAVE TO BE KIDDING.


You got called some names. And you don't like me. And that's the whole of the remaining case against mansplaining that hasn't yet been rebutted, evidently.

Win for the ladies, I'd say.


I can't comprehend how you could even draw this conclusion unless you're seriously attempting to be willfully ignorant. I say that not as an insult but as the only remaining conclusion I can draw. I just don't understand what you could be possibly thinking. Sorry. It also seems to me that you miss my point as all I've never actually said that I'm against women, at all. So if by winning you mean defeating someone who's not against you or your gender, well, then ok...you win. Hi Cuda. Long post. Made me laugh. Got to go, I'm late.

Oh, and all this attention to my silly little posts does really feel like I'm being bullied. For all the talk about feminism being about equal rights there really isn't much openness that I've seen to the suggestion that men have it bad too. Cya.
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby barracuda » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:53 pm

Krysos wrote:Hi Cuda.


Hello.

Long post.


Was it?

Krysos wrote:Made me laugh.


As yours did me.

Krysos wrote:Got to go, I'm late.


Better hurry.

Krysos wrote:Cya.


Wouldn't wanna be ya.
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:38 pm

DrEvil wrote:Not that I pay much attention to these things, but last time I checked women didn't go on the subway to pick up men, so if you see a woman by herself, reading a book, listening to music and wearing a wedding ring, how about just leaving her the fuck alone?
Or better yet - If you see a woman on the subway in general - just leave her the fuck alone. Odds are she's not there to find Prince Charming.
Same thing goes for pretty much anywhere people don't go to date. Seriously - how hard can that be to understand?


So easy to get!
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby Feilan » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:04 pm

... so, it's 9 am-ish in south western China, and it's raining - again.

I read this whole thread last night in between the little chunks of a terrific movie I was trying to watch in sad little pieces because the dang undersea cable between here and there was having an off night/day ... anyway. I don't have too much to say on the OP other than, yep, that happens. Of course, plenty of folks do it as a matter of course - irrespective of their divergent body parts. However, there is - to be sure - a vast swathe of menfolk who autonomically kick into this gear in conversation with womenfolk, hence the gender specific nomenclature for that particular thing when its manifestation is rooted in the delusional notion of gender based superiority plenty of menfolk are propping themselves up with at cocktail parties and wherever else they happen to be. It's not the worst evidence one can produce by way of illustrating the low regard too many men persist in having for female persons in general, but it is evidently evidential - to me at least, and to others it would seem.

What I carried on pondering after the movie ended (Moonrise Kingdom - REALLY great btw) was the account of the woman on the train and a certain response to it. I'm quite sure this that I am about to relay won't help - as in bring anyone who might exert so much fevered energy into convincing themselves and anyone else along for the ride that she 'handled it wrong' around to another point of view, if only for a change of scenery and not a change of heart per se - nevertheless, I shall pour forth with it. I don't actually post much here, more of a shrinking but curious violet you might say, who more often than not hasn't much to add to the eruditions herein on account of being less competent in so many of these weighty matters. Having carried a vagina around for as long as I can remember though - that - and allllllllll that goes along with it whether one likes it or not, is something I'm an authority on.

I am one of those irrepressible out-in-public blurters. I smile at everyone when I'm out and about. :partyhat Okay, maybe not everyone. Sometimes, I've got the earbuds in and I'm in my own little movie with a Jethro Tull soundtrack ... :trippin: ... its a very groovy feeling, but a bit isolating and I guess a lot of the folks out there on the street or bus or train fade into the extra category, cuz, y'know - I'm the star in my movie. Very often though, I consciously pocket the earbuds and focus on being a person among other people. Here in the Middle Kingdom and back in Kanuckistan, I am frequently rewarded with the exchange of a warm smile or some friendly reply to an innocuous comment on the slowness of the line or the weatheriness of the day. When I stick my neck out and get nothing or worse, a stony face, I do feel a bit hurt - shunned somehow - rejected even. There are occasions when it feels downright rude, and I mutter something quietly in my head about it - something unkind even. Then I wag a finger at myself and remind me that sometimes folks are having a bad day or a bad decade, and smiling at clown people :clown who wander about bursting with unsolicited smiles and hellooos / nin haos is just not on their radar, however much good I think it might do them. Nothing personal. Then I shrug it off and smile at someone else, or pat a friendly dog, or summat. As a longtime unrepentant out-in-public blurter I can tell you that it does seem folks are incrementally less and less inclined to blurt first or return the blurt. I reckon folks do feel more and more alienated from random humans they don't already know by name or from some prior familiar context. Who can blame them, really?

When I am the blurt receiver and responder and the blurter is of the male persuasion, I ALWAYS have to exercise a tiny bit of internal caution with respect to the blurters possible aims and goals. That's not some received notion about threat levels at work either, that's EXPERIENCE talking. I have been known to utter a pleasant, "I'm sorry, I'm really into my book at the moment." along with a disarming smile, not unlike the utterance described by the lady on the train. I'm just grateful for the fact that I've never had this exchange with anyone remotely resembling the dangerously out of control bag of hammers she had to deal with. In Kanuckistan's largest metropolitan area, roughly half of all ttc riders on board at any given moment have their heads buried in reading material of some sort or other and are left entirely to themselves to get on with their reading. They are signalling a legitimate self-absorption with their own doings and a fellow fellow traveler who thinks that girl in the red coat is pretty tasty with her hair like that and her downcast book reading face can try leaving a note for her in the column of one of those free metro papers devoted to that sort of romanticism. It's a bit weird and clueless to barge in on someone reading in public if you ask me. If one needs to do it because one is lost in a strange town and the only person around is that girl on a bench reading her book, I suppose you could give it a try. She is perfectly within her rights and the bounds of polite discourse to say "I'm sorry, I really don't know, I'm new here." and go back to her book, or check her watch and look late for something and walk away - even if she DOES know where that pizza hut is and isn't late for anything. Its her inalienable right to curtail her interactions with others according to her own needs and wants and if she does it with a curt but pleasant, "Please excuse me, but I really don't want to talk right now.", that's perfectly acceptable and should be respected by all blurters everywhere, regardless of the innocence or chivalric nature of their entreaties to engage her in chit chat.

What I'm saying is - if I smile and say nin hao to someone and get one of those not very friendly "Who are you looking at laowai (foreigner)?" glares in return, and I in turn yell out a belligerent "Fuck you too, asshole.", who's the asshole? Right? I'M THE ASSHOLE. I'VE GOT IT COMING. That person is under no obligation to receive my friendliness in whatever way I want them to. If I can't accept that, I am the one with the problem. Public blurting is attended by the risk that your blurt is unwanted and will bounce back at you to land on your shoe, like a sad splork of wet street yuck. That's life.

Real men and women - also known as real people - know how to handle that shit in their stride. I do not live my life seeking to accommodate those who can't - I don't think anyone else should either.
Many people will sleep for a hundred years, but when they awake, it will be the artists who give them their spirit back. ~ Louis David Riel
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby compared2what? » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:17 am

Feilan wrote:
What I carried on pondering after the movie ended (Moonrise Kingdom - REALLY great btw)


Masterpiece. Saw it three times. Only gets better.
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby compared2what? » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:26 am

Krysos wrote:
compared2what? wrote:Krysos. You HAVE TO BE KIDDING.


You got called some names. And you don't like me. And that's the whole of the remaining case against mansplaining that hasn't yet been rebutted, evidently.

Win for the ladies, I'd say.


I can't comprehend how you could even draw this conclusion unless you're seriously attempting to be willfully ignorant. I say that not as an insult but as the only remaining conclusion I can draw.


I wasn't being terribly serious. I thought the use of the phrase "the ladies" made that clear. But those things don't always work.

I just don't understand what you could be possibly thinking.


Honestly? I was looking at your post, complaining about being called a misogynist. And I was thinking:

I know that none of these guys would want to be the way they're being if they knew what that was.

It made me sad.

Sorry. It also seems to me that you miss my point as all I've never actually said that I'm against women, at all. So if by winning you mean defeating someone who's not against you or your gender, well, then ok...you win.


It's not a men vs. women thing to me. Or a women vs. anybody thing. Or an anybody vs. anybody thing. I think I've made that pretty clear recently. So I'll let what I've already said about it speak for me.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby compared2what? » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:23 am

In case anybody cares:

If it were up to me to set guidelines, WHICH IT'S NOT, I would make only one suggestion, which is A SUGGESTION and not a rule.

You know how you don't blaspheme or otherwise trash great religions when you're talking in public, just out of consideration for the possibility that you might be talking with (or within earshot of) adherents? Religious belief being one of those things that people have the right to keep private if they wish, without sacrificing the right to be treated considerately?

Everybody still with me?

Good.

It would be nice if you tried to remain similarly mindful of the possibility that you're talking with (or within earshot of) women who have been subjected to sexual violence. Because you probably are. There are really no ideas that puts off the table, as far as I'm aware. It would be more a question of exercising just a little bit of courtesy about the terms in which you were making the argument that sex workers have no right to complain about being treated like sex objects than it would be anything else. I mean, even if you've never heard a word any woman on the board has said, I'm sure you've all read the same "My Story" articles that I have. So how difficult can it really be to remember to think about how speaking of the hard-wired biological impulses of men as if they were, in fact, hard-wired biological imperatives might sound to an incest survivor who's probably heard them in another context?

It can't be that difficult. It's just courtesy.

That's what I'd suggest.

__________

I'm not talking about myself, btw. Or anybody. If I read that language anywhere, I'd have kind of an "ouch!" sensation on behalf of any survivors of domestic/familial sexual violence who might also be reading it. So it's not forum-specific. And also not intended as an attack on jlaw. It's not his fault if he uses the same general standards as the rest of the world. They're just bad standards. That's all.
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby Krysos » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:41 am

barracuda wrote:
Krysos wrote:Hi Cuda.


Hello.

Long post.


Was it?

Krysos wrote:Made me laugh.


As yours did me.

Krysos wrote:Got to go, I'm late.


Better hurry.

Krysos wrote:Cya.


Wouldn't wanna be ya.


Jerk.
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Re: Mansplaining

Postby barracuda » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:31 am

Just some minor chit-chat, Krys. Nothing worth crimping your snood over.
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