TRUMP is seriously dangerous

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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby dada » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:04 am

kelley » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:24 am wrote:4chan should terrify the status quo, but not for the reasons often claimed. it doesn't mirror society (as if), but pictures the rejection of its norms in a largely rhetorical manner. it comprehends the machinery of persuasion in a way that defies all the traditional notions of agency, participation, permanence, and authority. this may be politics, but there were moments a few years ago when, if embraced at a purely syntactical level, i imagined /b/ as the most powerful artwork ever devised by humankind.


"Powerful artwork" in what sense? What is a powerful artwork. Is it something that brings about some sort of cathartic experience in the consumer/viewer, or the participant? Does it make the viewer/consumer or participant see the world in a different way? If 'art,' and the 'value of the artwork' are assumptions that it goes without saying we're all supposed to take for granted, I don't see any rejection of societies norms, I see a game played within societies norms. 'Message board participation as art' is as if I'm dressing up a big game of 'exquisite corpse' in flowery language.

And people dress up games in flowery language all the time, that's nothing new. People like to argue that videogames are art. They go to school for it, write very seriously about 'game culture studies.' It's like playing games about games, sublimated fandom. Some people can even make a living writing in that style.

People want their games to be 'important,' have 'real meaning.'

---

"I was joking. I never go to 4chan or Reddit (except the latter occasionally when someone links), and probably get enough of the fallout elsewhere to have a sense of what is going on in these echo chambers for a limited demographic. If I did, maybe I'd get the dubious idea that young people are turning to Trump, as opposed to (maybe) Stein or Johnson, or not caring in particular."

ha! I can't believe I fell for that. In my defense, I did have a sneaking suspicion you were kidding, Jack.

---

" It's easy to get caught up in any website's local culture where it colors your perception, leading you to project it onto the larger world. We live in a very fractured reality online."

I agree with that very much, Blue. I was going to add to it, but I'm out of time for now. Maybe later. It's perfect as it stands, anyway.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:01 am

seemslikeadream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:37 am wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9tzDRVEYxM

Trump, Grand Wizard of Birtherism
Charles M. Blow
Charles M. Blow SEPT. 17, 2016

So, on Friday the Grand Wizard of Birtherism against President Obama admitted that birtherism was bunk, not by apologizing for his prominent role in the racist campaign — no, that would have been too right — but by suggesting that he deserved credit for dousing the flames he’d fanned.

This man is so low that he’s subterranean.

Donald Trump said Friday: “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy.”

That was a lie. There is no evidence Hillary Clinton and her campaign either started or took part in the efforts to question the location of Barack Obama’s birth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/19/opini ... egion&_r=1


Is this true? I think there's some evidence posted to this board to support the idea that her campaign did start the oppositional research into Obama's birth, or at the very least fomenting shady propaganda about his past.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby semper occultus » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:08 am

Donald Trump has the simplest words. And they're overwhelming Hillary Clinton

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/20/donald-trump-has-the-simplest-words-and-theyre-overwhelming-hill/

Image

Donald Trump knows the power of words. They helped him forge his reputation as the personification of wealth, success and, he would like to think, the American dream. "I know words," he infamously boasted last year, "I have the best words." And this knowledge means that he's proving to be brutally effective in his bid for the White House.

Mr Trump's lexicon is undeniably simplistic. He bills himself as a "winner", his enemies are always "losers" or "disgusting", and he likes to end his Twitter slapdowns with the exclamation – "Sad!". He prefers short, punchy words – ideally of one syllable – to make his point. One analysis suggests he speaks at a level a 7 year old could understand, whereas his rival Hillary Clinton is understandable to those in their early teens. And that helps his message hit home.

The Republican Presidential contender knows the average voter doesn't pay much attention to politics, so a campaign message must be loud and clear in order to cut through the noise in that time.

So the more Mr Trump can ensure voters hear what he wants them to, the better. If a candidate controls the key issues in voters minds, they clearly have the upper hand, and that is how he hopes to win.

What do Americans actually hear & recall about Clinton & Trump? @Gallup tracking survey https://t.co/CD6NZvrvzX pic.twitter.com/dKhANsxHGg

— Paul Kirby (@paul1kirby) September 20, 2016

So "The Donald" will be delighted by Gallup's tracking poll, which has found that most of what Americans have read, seen, or heard about his rival Hillary Clinton has been been on the issue of how she handled her emails as secretary of state. This has not been the case on just two weeks, the first during the Democratic convention - when it was merely the second biggest issue in their minds - and the second last week, when they had her health scare to think about.

Such results suggest that Mr Trump's constant attacks on "crooked Hillary" (as he calls her) are hitting home, as she is struggling to get them to think about anything else except for her e-mails or her bout of pneumonia. The controversy surrounding her e-mails is particularly dangerous for Mrs Clinton as she cannot explain it away in one sentence. She may survive extended scrutiny, as shown during her 11-hour grilling over Benghazi, but who'll be paying attention?

By contrast, Americans have tended to hear about Mr Trump exactly what his campaign has been focusing on that week. Immigration, Mexico and Obama have been among his key messages, showing that voters are thinking about him exactly what he wants them to be.

Mr Trump is thriving in this Presidential race as he knows how to sell his message to voters. His simple language means even disengaged Americans know what his offer is in this campaign – toughness – whether it be against China, Mexico, or Isil.

The fact that his campaign slogan "Make America Great Again!" has spawned several parodies (like #MakeAmericaHateAgain) is a sign of how identifiable his campaign has become. On the other hand, cam you recall the slogan used by Mrs Clinton? Spoiler:(If you were wondering, it's "Stronger Together")

This image says it all. Let's end the politically correct agenda that doesn't put America first. #trump2016 pic.twitter.com/9fHwog7ssN

— Donald Trump Jr. (@DonaldJTrumpJr) September 19, 2016

This talent for eye-catching and clear messages seems to run in the Trump family, with Donald Jr using a bowl of Skittles to claim that admitting Syrian refugees poses a threat to the United States.

His tweet left pundits and politicos squeamish, but it will colourfully underline in voters’ minds what Donald Trump senior wants to do on such issues. Indeed, every time a liberal journalist or activist tweets or posts on Facebook about how unfair and disgusting they find the Skittles meme, they also help spread it, thereby cementing its prominence in the public mind.

That in turn hampers Hillary Clinton’s ability to get voters thinking about positive things she has to offer, which means negative issues like her e-mails fester in their minds instead.

In less than seven weeks, America will decide its next President. Donald Trump will be determined voters think of his campaign's big issues when their thoughts turn to him, and the most awkward ones when they consider his rival.

The TV debates will test how his brash rhetoric fares against Mrs Clinton. But one thing is clear in the meantime: Donald Trump has the simplest words, and they're proving to be lethal for his opponent.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:22 am

Luther Blissett » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:01 am wrote:
seemslikeadream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:37 am wrote:
Is this true? I think there's some evidence posted to this board to support the idea that her campaign did start the oppositional research into Obama's birth, or at the very least fomenting shady propaganda about his past.



it's bullshit..but if you want to believe Trump propaganda go ahead

5 fucking years he pushed this fucking crap ...sent "investigators" to Hawaii ...and they were "finding incredible" stuff....he is a fucking liar
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby PufPuf93 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:40 am

Luther Blissett » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:01 am wrote:
seemslikeadream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:37 am wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9tzDRVEYxM

Trump, Grand Wizard of Birtherism
Charles M. Blow
Charles M. Blow SEPT. 17, 2016

So, on Friday the Grand Wizard of Birtherism against President Obama admitted that birtherism was bunk, not by apologizing for his prominent role in the racist campaign — no, that would have been too right — but by suggesting that he deserved credit for dousing the flames he’d fanned.

This man is so low that he’s subterranean.

Donald Trump said Friday: “Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy.”

That was a lie. There is no evidence Hillary Clinton and her campaign either started or took part in the efforts to question the location of Barack Obama’s birth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/19/opini ... egion&_r=1


Is this true? I think there's some evidence posted to this board to support the idea that her campaign did start the oppositional research into Obama's birth, or at the very least fomenting shady propaganda about his past.


Clinton's 2008 campaign did not start the question of Obama's birthplace but did drop hints in passing that there may ne an issue. That there is "no evidence" of Clinton campaign involvement is untrue.

Note that I recall this as an Obama supporter in 2008.

This in no way excuses the train wreck that is Trump and Trump trumpeting birtherism for years.
Last edited by PufPuf93 on Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:41 am

one remark by Mark Penn does not a campaign involvement make

Trump pushed the fucking lie for 5 years non stop
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby PufPuf93 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:45 am

seemslikeadream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:41 am wrote:one remark by Mark Penn does not a campaign involvement make

Trump pushed the fucking lie for 5 years non stop


Note SLAD I made my edit without seeing your response realizing that I had best clarify. I agree with you about Trump. The Clinton campaign was more than one comment by Penn in that the "hint" cascaded and was not denied by the campaign nor Hillary Clinton herself.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:48 am

that's ok here's fact check.org

Was Hillary Clinton the Original ‘Birther’?
By Robert FarleyPosted on July 2, 2015


Two Republican presidential candidates claim the so-called “birther” movement originated with the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2008. While it’s true that some of her ardent supporters pushed the theory, there is no evidence that Clinton or her campaign had anything to do with it.
In an interview on June 29, Sen. Ted Cruz said “the whole birther thing was started by the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2008,” and earlier this year, Donald Trump claimed “Hillary Clinton wanted [Obama’s] birth certificate. Hillary is a birther.”
Neither Cruz nor Trump presented any evidence that Clinton or anyone on her campaign ever questioned Obama’s birthplace, demanded to see his birth certificate, or otherwise suggested that Obama was not a “natural born citizen” eligible to serve as president.
For those unfamiliar with the controversy over Obama’s birthplace, it refers to those who contend that Obama was born in Kenya and ineligible to be president.
At FactCheck.org, we have written about the issue of Obama’s birthplace on multiple occasions — indeed we were the first media organization to hold his birth certificate in our hot little hands and vouch for the authenticity of it. But facts have done little to squelch the conspiracy theories that continue to bounce around online.
The issue arose again this week in an interview with Cruz, who was born in Canada to an American mother and a Cuban father. Yahoo News’ Katie Couric asked Cruz if he thought that was going to be an issue for voters.
“It’s interesting, the whole birther thing was started by the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2008 against Barack Obama,” Cruz said (at about the 25:25 mark). Cruz then went on to say that he believes he clearly meets the constitutional requirement for a president to be a “natural born citizen.”
The claim about Clinton’s tie to “birthers” was made earlier by Donald Trump in February at the CPAC event (at 24:20 mark). Trump — who has a history of pushing bogus theories about Obama’s birth — said, “Hillary Clinton wanted [Obama’s] birth certificate. Hillary is a birther. She wanted … but she was unable to get it.”
We asked the Cruz campaign for backup, and it pointed us to two articles. The first ran in Politico on April 22, 2011, under the headline, “Birtherism: Where it all began.”
Politico, April 22, 2011: The answer lies in Democratic, not Republican politics, and in the bitter, exhausting spring of 2008. At the time, the Democratic presidential primary was slipping away from Hillary Clinton and some of her most passionate supporters grasped for something, anything that would deal a final reversal to Barack Obama.

According to the article, the theory that Obama was born in Kenya “first emerged in the spring of 2008, as Clinton supporters circulated an anonymous email questioning Obama’s citizenship.”
The second article, which ran several days after the Politico piece, was published by the Telegraph, a British paper, which stated: “An anonymous email circulated by supporters of Mrs Clinton, Mr Obama’s main rival for the party’s nomination, thrust a new allegation into the national spotlight — that he had not been born in Hawaii.”
Both of those stories comport with what we here at FactCheck.org wrote two-and-a-half years earlier, on Nov. 8, 2008: “This claim was first advanced by diehard Hillary Clinton supporters as her campaign for the party’s nomination faded, and has enjoyed a revival among John McCain’s partisans as he fell substantially behind Obama in public opinion polls.”
Claims about Obama’s birthplace appeared in chain emails bouncing around the Web, and one of the first lawsuits over Obama’s birth certificate was filed by Philip Berg, a former deputy Pennsylvania attorney general and a self-described “moderate to liberal” who supported Clinton.
But none of those stories suggests any link between the Clinton campaign, let alone Clinton herself, and the advocacy of theories questioning Obama’s birth in Hawaii.
One of the authors of the Politico story, Byron Tau, now a reporter for the Wall Street Journal, told FactCheck.org via email that “we never found any links between the Clinton campaign and the rumors in 2008.”
The other coauthor of the Politico story, Ben Smith, now the editor-in-chief of BuzzFeed, said in a May 2013 interview on MSNBC that the conspiracy theories traced back to “some of [Hillary Clinton’s] passionate supporters,” during the final throes of Clinton’s 2008 campaign. But he said they did not come from “Clinton herself or her staff.”
Josh Schwerin, a spokesman for the Clinton campaign, said Cruz’s claim is false. “The Clinton campaign never suggested that President Obama was not born here,” Schwerin wrote to us in an email.
It is certainly interesting, and perhaps historically and politically relevant, that “birther” advocacy may have originated with supporters of Hillary Clinton — especially since many view it as an exclusively right-wing movement. But whether those theories were advocated by Clinton and/or her campaign or simply by Clinton “supporters” is an important distinction. Candidates are expected to be held accountable for the actions of their campaigns. Neither Cruz nor Trump, whose campaign did not respond to our request for backup material, provides any compelling evidence that either Clinton or her campaign had anything to do with starting the so-called birther movement.
— Robert Farley
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hi ... l-birther/
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Searcher08 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:58 am

seemslikeadream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:22 pm wrote:
Luther Blissett » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:01 am wrote:
seemslikeadream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:37 am wrote:
Is this true? I think there's some evidence posted to this board to support the idea that her campaign did start the oppositional research into Obama's birth, or at the very least fomenting shady propaganda about his past.



it's bullshit..but if you want to believe Trump propaganda go ahead

5 fucking years he pushed this fucking crap ...sent "investigators" to Hawaii ...and they were "finding incredible" stuff....he is a fucking liar


I wonder what "incredible stuff" he found. Maybe they found that Obama was actually born in Indonesia at Gunung Padang, as a great Garuda bird was seen in the sky...
Obama, with Singing Rocks.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:13 pm

Trump technically owes Obama a $5 million donation now
September 16, 2016

MANDEL NGAN/AFP/Getty Images
Donald Trump was in large part responsible for spreading the conspiracy theory that President Barack Obama was born abroad (spoiler alert: Obama was born in Hawaii). After years of promoting the theory, Trump blurted Friday that he believes Obama was in fact born in the United States — and if Trump is true to his word, that admission will cost him $5 million:

In 2012, Trump offered to donate $5 million if Obama would produce records related to his citizenship. Long after others had stopped pressing the case, Trump continued.

"The president should come clean," Trump said on Irish television in 2014, a clip unearthed by BuzzFeed late Thursday, refusing to accept that Obama's Hawaii birth certificate was genuine proof. "A lot of people feel it wasn't a proper certificate." [The Los Angeles Times]
http://theweek.com/speedreads/649314/tr ... nation-now
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby Luther Blissett » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:02 pm

I seem to remember comments here around '09-'10 about Clintonite Philip Nolan and Stanley Associates employees getting caught snooping into Obama's life history. I appreciate factcheck but I don't imagine they would address the deep state very far.

Of course Trump amplified the birther nonsense, that much is clear, but Clinton's dirty and racist 2008 campaign might be clouding my memory.

Reading the threads from mid-2008 about the democratic debates shows just how much we took for granted and how much we forget: "this is why Clinton hates Obama," "Clinton says she wants to stay in the race in case Obama is assassinated," "why is Clinton attacking Obama over Reverend Wright?"

Also, how naive we all were for worrying about nuclear war in Iran.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby PufPuf93 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:14 pm

Luther Blissett » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:02 am wrote:I seem to remember comments here around '09-'10 about Clintonite Philip Nolan and Stanley Associates employees getting caught snooping into Obama's life history. I appreciate factcheck but I don't imagine they would address the deep state very far.

Of course Trump amplified the birther nonsense, that much is clear, but Clinton's dirty and racist 2008 campaign might be clouding my memory.

Reading the threads from mid-2008 about the democratic debates shows just how much we took for granted and how much we forget: "this is why Clinton hates Obama," "Clinton says she wants to stay in the race in case Obama is assassinated," "why is Clinton attacking Obama over Reverend Wright?"

Also, how naive we all were for worrying about nuclear war in Iran.


There are reports of Sidney Blumenthal as well seeding doubts about Obama's origins.

What doesn't get mentioned about Obama is what I consider a rather high likelihood that Obama was born into deep state / cia connections via his mother, father, stepfather, and university background.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby dada » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:11 pm




Did you agree with the article? Is it intended to sway our opinions one way or another. Should I think along the lines the article would like me to think? Are you just sharing an article you thought was interesting, thinking we'd find it interesting as well? Are you curious to know what we think about it?

I think the article shows the bankruptcy of Donald Trump's campaign in a nutshell. His strength is he 'speaks like a seven year old.' And even that is only a strength if we assume that American voters are stupid. Great campaigning.

My take is that American voters are not stupid. There are many stupid people that don't vote. There are a few very smart people who don't vote. Both of these groups are not going to become motivated to vote for any reason. If you are a journalist, and you think seven year old Donald-speak is going to get the apathetic American to the voting booth, you are a fool. Journalists can be fools, I don't know if you knew this, but it's true.

The majority of voters are not going to be swayed in any direction at this point, their minds are made up. We know who is voting for Donald. We know who is voting against him. The only people we aren't sure about are the conservatives. They'll probably be split. Although even George Herbert Bush said he's voting for Clinton. (You can read about that in the Telegraph today, too.)

So what do you think? Is Donald-speak going to win over the conservatives? Many at the top of the Republican food-chain have already broke the ice, making it clear that it's okay for Republicans to vote for Clinton.

It helps to get off the internet sometimes, see what people think. Average Republicans and Democrats. Maybe peripherally aware of the deep state, maybe not. Cynical, smart, down-to-earth people living their lives. If you do that, you get a much different picture of how this is all playing out in real time.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby tapitsbo » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:43 pm

During the Democratic campaign we saw that the votes people cast don't necessarily have a lot to do with who gets selected as the winner.

Why would the presidential election be any different?
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Re: TRUMP is seriously dangerous

Postby tapitsbo » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:47 pm

dada » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:08 am wrote:It's an internet meme thing, I get it. Frog is meme of the moment. Some internet memes catch on in the wider culture for a time, and some don't, for various reasons.

Subcultures have in-jokes and buzz words. They develop their own slang. Everysmurf is smurfy in a subculture.

Do I need to be concerned with the particulars of this one? eh, I'll pass. I think I get the idea.

You have to understand, I'm not a monitor, an outside observer of troll-culture. I'm at war with it.

Total war. I know it may seem like I'm a sweetheart, but really, deep down I am not a nice person. :partydance:



Total war with troll culture?

Jared Cohen's Jigsaw made an announcement about that recently, I think :lol:
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