Women of the world, take over

[populistindependent]

Well, shall we start with psychology, then? Starting with Freud, it was always men making theories about women, and women were, according to these mens' theories, "meek," prone to "hysteria," "emotional/illogical," in short, inferior to men.

Thanks. Freud was an ass. Not sure how much that tells us, however. "Psychology" turns us all into lab rats. Outside of pretty limited and aristocratic WASP circles, how much impact did Freud's ideas have? (Asking, not challenging you or arguing.)

[populistindependent]

Before that (pre-about 30 years ago) it was men talking about women.

Not sure what that means. Can you explain?

Sorry, here's the short answer:


Men talking about women instead of with them.

There is no shortage of records of men and women talking with each other throughout history.

[theeKultleeder]

As a reply to both indiepop and Stephen Morgan:

I see what you're both saying. Even as early as Wollstonecraft, the "Women's Lib" movement was basically for bourgeois, upper class women. I can get a picture of a strong working woman, a prole, going about her daily business, doing her work, dealing with her man, and totally unconcerned about deconstructing Freud.

There is also resentment and even a creeping wariness about the intellectual class here.

Still, there is much historical evidence of women as a whole treated as an underclass. A conservative Hindu woman might resent the meddling of Western influence on her daughter's ideas of freedom, to the point where the daughter refuses an arranged marriage. The conservative Hindu might blame a form of feminism, and so would I, except I would see it as a good thing.

The natural checks and balances of a spectrum of debate should temper the more radical and less realistic forms of any school of thought.

[populistindependent]

As a reply to both indiepop and Stephen Morgan:

I see what you're both saying. Even as early as Wollstonecraft, the "Women's Lib" movement was basically for bourgeois, upper class women. I can get a picture of a strong working woman, a prole, going about her daily business, doing her work, dealing with her man, and totally unconcerned about deconstructing Freud.

There is also resentment and even a creeping wariness about the intellectual class here.

Still, there is much historical evidence of women as a whole treated as an underclass. A conservative Hindu woman might resent the meddling of Western influence on her daughter's ideas of freedom, to the point where the daughter refuses an arranged marriage. The conservative Hindu might blame a form of feminism, and so would I, except I would see it as a good thing.

The natural checks and balances of a spectrum of debate should temper the more radical and less realistic forms of any school of thought.

I agree. Thanks.

We are living at the heart of possibly the greatest and most ruthless empire in history. We, as the thinkers, writers and speakers in the society, are "house Negroes" to a ruling class with unprecedented wealth and power - the power to destroy life on the planet. We are living through times of the wanton and total destruction of all traditional culture - everything that sustained and nurtured human societies since the beginning of time. We are the first humans to attempt flying without the wings of culture, the first humans to not know who we are, and the first to attempt making up who we are on our own. We are the first human beings ever to be this far removed from either agriculture or hunting and gathering.

How could it be even remotely possible that there would be such a thing as being too alert, too aware of the utterly extraordinary context within which we live and the inevitable corrupting influence that could have on all of our thoughts and ideas and actions?

[Stephen Morgan]

Still, there is much historical evidence of women as a whole treated as an underclass.

What you see as oppression I see as willing adoption of a dirrferent role for hte common good. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree about that.

[Username]

.
An excerpt from Democracy Now! radio program for September 4, 2006
http://www.archive.org/details/dn2006-0904_vid


AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk more about "Irene"?

PETE SEEGER: Well, it was the song, the theme song of the great black singer, Leadbelly. He died in '49, and if he'd only lived another 6 months, he would have seen his song all over America. It was an old, old song. He'd simply changed and adapted it, added some verses and changed the melody, what my father called the "folk process," but which happens all through all kinds of music. In fact, all culture, you might say. Lawyers adapt old laws to suit new citizens. Cooks adapt old recipes to fit new stomachs.

Anyway, I learned this 12-string guitar from Leadbelly. A high string and a low string together, but played together to give a new tone. And the song I really would like to sing to you is -- always have to do with it -- I don't sing it anymore. I give the words to the audience, and they sing it. I says, "You know this song. To everything, turn, turn, turn, there is a season. Sing it." And the whole audience sings, "Turn, turn, turn. There is a season. And a time. And a time for every purpose under heaven. A time to be born, a time to die. Sing it. A time to be born, a time to plant, to reap. A time to plant a time to kill, to heal. A time to kill, a time to laugh, to weep. A time to laugh, a time to" --

You know, those words are 2,256 years old. I didn't know that at the time, but Julius Lester, an old friend of mine, he's a -- I don't know if you know him -- he's a Black man who's officially a Jew. He became fascinated with the Bible. I asked him, "When was these words written?" He says, "Well, the man's name was Kohelet, meaning "convoker," somebody who calls people together to speak to them. In the Greek translation, they called him Ecclesiastes, and he's still in the King James Version as this. And it's a type of poetry, which is Greek. The Greeks have a word for it, anaphora, and it means you start off a line with a word or a phrase. You don't have rhyme at the end of the line, but you do have -- it becomes poetry by the way it's organized.

Well, I didn't realize I liked the words, but I realize now. Those are maybe some of the most fundamentally important words that anybody could learn. You see, you and I, we're all descended from killers, good killers. The ones who were not good killers didn't have descendants. But we're descended from good killers. For millions of years our ancestors were good killers. They say if they hadn't been, we wouldn't be here today. Now is a new period. In other words, it's a time, you might say, the human race needed to have good killers. Now, if we don't change our way of thinking, there will be no human race here, because science acts very irresponsibly -- oh, any information is good. Ha, ha, ha. They don't realize that some information is very important, some, frankly, forget about until we solve some other problems. Einstein was the first person who said it; everything has changed now, except our way of thinking. And we've got to find ways to change our way of thinking.

Sports can do it. Arts can do it. Cooking can do it. All sorts of good works can do it. Smiles can do it. And I'm of the opinion now that if the human race makes it -- I say we've got a 50-50 chance -- if the human race makes it, it'll be women working with children, these two very large oppressed classes in the human race. Children, doing what the grownups say they're supposed to do, and yet they're going to have to pay for our mistakes. They're going to have to clean up the environment, which had been filled with chemicals, the air being filled with chemicals, the water being filled with chemicals, the ocean being filled with chemicals. And they're going to have to clean it up. And I think it will be women working with kids that'll do this job. In millions of little ways, maybe done in your hometown. In my hometown we're starting a project to put in a floating swimming pool in the Hudson, because now the Hudson is clean enough to swim in. Let's swim in it. And if it works in our little town, maybe other towns will do it. In fact, if this swimming pool idea -- it's like a big netting in the water.

So, I confess I'm more optimistic now than I was 58 years ago, 59 years ago, when the atom bomb was dropped.

http://www.archive.org/details/dn2006-0904_vid

[chillin]

What you see as oppression I see as willing adoption of a dirrferent role for hte common good. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree about that.

Umm, women were considered "property" not too long ago in the western world. They still are in many parts of the world. How do you honestly consider that "willing adoption of a dirrferent role for hte common good"?

"I willingly accept this face full of sulfuric acid for the common good of my family's honor and the rest of society."

""I willingly accept being burned to death for the common good of my family's honor and the rest of society."

Seriously dude.. wtf?

[theeKultleeder]

What you see as oppression I see as willing adoption of a dirrferent role for hte common good. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree about that.

Umm, women were considered "property" not too long ago in the western world. They still are in many parts of the world. How do you honestly consider that "willing adoption of a dirrferent role for hte common good"?

"I willingly accept this face full of sulfuric acid for the common good of my family's honor and the rest of society."

""I willingly accept being burned to death for the common good of my family's honor and the rest of society."

Seriously dude.. wtf?

All you have to say is, "Fine, Stephen. Now YOU be the underclass, you know, for the common good."


In a technological world, women can sit in the office cubicles and men can go do all the other work: garbage pick up, janitorial work, laundry services and dry cleaning, food service, waiting tables...

Could you imagine Stephen Morgan as an airline steward-ess?




I'm just funnin' with you Stephen - no harm intended

[Stephen Morgan]

Umm, women were considered "property" not too long ago in the western world.

If not too long ago is Roman times, then maybe, maybe not. Otherwise just not. It's true there's record of an attempt by an Englishman to sell his wife as late as the 1880s, but that turned out to be illegal and he couldn't find a buyer anyway. Even that was with her consent, this being before readily available divorce.

"I willingly accept this face full of sulfuric acid for the common good of my family's honor and the rest of society."

""I willingly accept being burned to death for the common good of my family's honor and the rest of society."

This is a common feminist trick. There's always some woman in the not too distant past or a housewife in Ulan Bator than rich white women in the West can use for some sympathetic victimhood. Truth is white western women are the most privileged class on Earth.

[Stephen Morgan]

All you have to say is, "Fine, Stephen. Now YOU be the underclass, you know, for the common good."

I'm a poor man, I already am the underclass. It's not particularly good for the commonwealth, either.

In a technological world, women can sit in the office cubicles and men can go do all the other work: garbage pick up, janitorial work, laundry services and dry cleaning, food service, waiting tables...

Yeah, that's a fantasy world where most office jobs are held by women and all the dirty jobs are done by men and 90% of workplace deaths are men because women won't do dangerous or unpleasant work. Yeah, that's so bizarre it could never resemble reality, what was I thinking? How do I make that go green?

Could you imagine Stephen Morgan as an airline steward-ess?

I'm just funnin' with you Stephen - no harm intended

If you remember the first series of Star Trek the Next Generation (an Illuminati programming tool, according to Springmeier) the men, although not the main characters, wore dresses very similar to those.

[theeKultleeder]

Springmeier

Is a whack-job and a psychic hazard to everyone he touches.

[IanEye]

Mr. Morgan

are you familiar with either of these musical artists?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretta_Lynn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammy_Wynette

------
perhaps you would take the time to compare and contrast these two songs by Ms. Lynn and Ms. Wynette, respectively. Also, when pondering them, consider their popularity in the '60s, in heavy rotation on the AM band of Middle America, blaring from AM radios as various women in turn pondered their own role as housewives.

The Pill - Loretta Lynn
You wined me and dined me
When I was your girl
Promised if I'd be your wife
You'd show me the world
But all I've seen of this old world
Is a bed and a doctor bill
I'm tearin' down your brooder house
'Cause now I've got the pill
All these years I've stayed at home
While you had all your fun
And every year thats gone by
Another babys come
There's a gonna be some changes made
Right here on nursery hill
You've set this chicken your last time
'Cause now I've got the pill
This old maternity dress I've got
Is goin' in the garbage
The clothes I'm wearin' from now on
Won't take up so much yardage
Miniskirts, hot pants and a few little fancy frills
Yeah I'm makin' up for all those years
Since I've got the pill
I'm tired of all your crowin'
How you and your hens play
While holdin' a couple in my arms
Another's on the way
This chicken's done tore up her nest
And I'm ready to make a deal
And ya can't afford to turn it down
'Cause you know I've got the pill
This incubator is overused
Because you've kept it filled
The feelin' good comes easy now
Since I've got the pill
It's gettin' dark it's roostin' time
Tonight's too good to be real
Oh but daddy don't you worry none
'Cause mama's got the pill
Oh daddy don't you worry none
'Cause mama's got the pill

Tammy Wynette - D-I-V-O-R-C-E
Our little boy is four years old and quite a little man
So we spell out the words we don't want him to understand
Like T-O-Y or maybe S-U-R-P-R-I-S-E
But the words we're hiding from him now
Tear the heart right out of me.

Our D-I-V-O-R-C-E becomes final today
Me and little J-O-E will be goin' away
I love you both and it will be pure H-E double L for me
Oh, I wish that we could stop this D-I-V-O-R-C-E.

Watch him smile, he thinks it Christmas
Or his 5th Birthday
And he thinks C-U-S-T-O-D-Y spells fun or play
I spell out all the hurtin' words
And turn my head when I speak
'Cause I can't spell away this hurt
That's drippin' down my cheek.

Our D-I-V-O-R-C-E becomes final today
Me and little J-O-E will be goin' away
I love you both and it will be pure H-E double L for me
Oh, I wish that we could stop this D-I-V-O-R-C-E.

[FourthBase]

We are living at the heart of possibly the greatest and most ruthless empire in history. We, as the thinkers, writers and speakers in the society, are "house Negroes" to a ruling class with unprecedented wealth and power - the power to destroy life on the planet. We are living through times of the wanton and total destruction of all traditional culture - everything that sustained and nurtured human societies since the beginning of time. We are the first humans to attempt flying without the wings of culture, the first humans to not know who we are, and the first to attempt making up who we are on our own. We are the first human beings ever to be this far removed from either agriculture or hunting and gathering.

How could it be even remotely possible that there would be such a thing as being too alert, too aware of the utterly extraordinary context within which we live and the inevitable corrupting influence that could have on all of our thoughts and ideas and actions?

Wow. Quoted for TRUTH.

[FourthBase]

I love what Seeger says but I have some objections.

Many of today's humans descended from killers. But absolutely not ALL of us, and in my opinion not even most of us. Hell, it may not even be "many", it could be like, maybe, 10-15% or something, or even less. I saw the thread about humans evolving into separate species...do we not think that hasn't already occurred, that we haven't evolved into many separate "breeds" (if not outright species), indicated not by color or shape so much as by TYPE? In my ideal universe, the different types and their type-complements would be segregated. Again, I'm not talking about race or anything...I'm talking about, say, all the greedy people living together, all the selfless people living together, all the gullible people living together. That should be the new set of boundaries dividing nations and cities. Assholeburg. The Republic of Kind People. Dumbassville. Passiveaggressivestan.

Sports can do it. Arts can do it. Cooking can do it. All sorts of good works can do it.

Thank you Pete!!!

[Stephen Morgan]

Many of today's humans descended from killers. But absolutely not ALL of us, and in my opinion not even most of us.

I seem to recall reading that half of the population of Asia is descended from Genghis Khan. Still, most of us aren't killers ourselves. Even in world war two most troops fired high on purpose because they couldn't cope with taking a human life. Those who missed and killed someone generally ended up severely traumatised, except for the psychopaths.

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