9/11 Cult Watch

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Postby Hammer of Los » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:01 pm

Hmm.

Jeff wrote:But now in the 9/11 "community," the self-accredited demolition experts who know because they've watched it on video, are even suspicious of the motives of those who want an honest investigation. They already have the answers, and if you still have questions you're either a fool or a tool.


This is an unfair characterisation. It is exactly this sort of characterisation to which people object.

I think you are missing the point Jeff. People aren't criticised for lacking certainty about what happened to those three skyscrapers. Not at all. The only folk who express certainty seem to me to be the professional disinfo types, lasers from space, Judy Wood and Jim Fetzer.

People aren't suspicious of folk for wanting an honest investigation. That's not true either.

People are suspicious when researchers of physical evidence which contradicts the official 911 narrative, come under attack, especially when that attack uses the blunt but effective weapon of ridicule. It is one thing to assert that skyscraper collapse researchers and theorists are making a tactical error of focus, another thing entirely to heap scorn upon them as if their assertions or theories are risible. Dr Steven Jones, Prof David Ray Griffin, Richard Gage, Kevin Ryan and others are certainly not ludicrous. They are serious and competent professional people. The distinction of being ludicrous truly belongs to the NIST report compilers and other apologists for an official narrative that does not stand up to scrutiny.

When all is said and done, there is no "movement." And there are certainly no acknowledged "leaders," certainly not David Shayler, whose frailties, delusions or dubious loyalties could be used all too easily to tarnish the whole notion of 911 inside job. In fact, that is exactly the strategy we can expect apologists of the official 911 narrative to seek to adopt.

I have been told it is churlish to doubt your commitment to a belief in 911 inside job, and I am forced to concur. That being so, perhaps we can focus on those things on which we agree, and renew a commitment to speaking the truth about the overwhelming and conclusive evidence of 911 inside job, rather than seeking to disseminate the idea that belief in an inside job is to be equated with membership of a delusional and dogmatic cult.

I take your point about loyalty oaths. I accept that I was wrong to put such a question in such a way, and that it was wholly unacceptable. Your writings speak for themselves, especially the coincidence theorists guide, which I link to here for the benefit of any who may no have read it;

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2 ... o-911.html
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Postby FourthBase » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:06 pm

People are suspicious when researchers of physical evidence which contradicts the official 911 narrative, come under attack, especially when that attack uses the blunt but effective weapon of ridicule. It is one thing to assert that skyscraper collapse researchers and theorists are making a tactical error of focus, another thing entirely to heap scorn upon them as if their assertions or theories are risible. Dr Steven Jones, Prof David Ray Griffin, Richard Gage, Kevin Ryan and others are certainly not ludicrous. They are serious and competent professional people. The distinction of being ludicrous truly belongs to the NIST report compilers and other apologists for an official narrative that does not stand up to scrutiny.


I agree with all of that.
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Postby nomo » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:33 pm

Here's a simple question for orz and Nomo

Do you think the 911 attacks could be reasonably characterised, either in part or in whole, as an "inside job?"


But of course. For that we have plenty of evidence.


Just so we all know where we stand. Of course you are perfectly free to ignore these questions, rephrase them, assert them irrelevant or meaningless, or obfuscate, hedge or dissemble. You are also free to joke, quip, insult or deride. Take your pick.


How about ridicule?

You people fail to see that for the most part, I agree with you. Where I draw the line is this controlled demolition bullshit. There is no way, no how, that those towers were blown up. It is perfectly within the realm of physics that the jet impacts and the fires brought them down.

What I find completely off-putting is the emphasis on CD as some sort of litmus test. And since I've had these "discussions" for almost 6 years now, I've finally given up taking you guys seriously on this. There is zero evidence for any of the CD theories. It is a Trojan horse *designed* to take the steam out of any serious investigation of 9/11.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Postby Jeff » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:43 pm

nomo wrote:
What I find completely off-putting is the emphasis on CD as some sort of litmus test. And since I've had these "discussions" for almost 6 years now, I've finally given up taking you guys seriously on this. There is zero evidence for any of the CD theories. It is a Trojan horse *designed* to take the steam out of any serious investigation of 9/11.


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Postby AlanStrangis » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:56 pm

nomo wrote:
Here's a simple question for orz and Nomo

Do you think the 911 attacks could be reasonably characterised, either in part or in whole, as an "inside job?"


But of course. For that we have plenty of evidence.


Just so we all know where we stand. Of course you are perfectly free to ignore these questions, rephrase them, assert them irrelevant or meaningless, or obfuscate, hedge or dissemble. You are also free to joke, quip, insult or deride. Take your pick.


How about ridicule?

You people fail to see that for the most part, I agree with you. Where I draw the line is this controlled demolition bullshit. There is no way, no how, that those towers were blown up. It is perfectly within the realm of physics that the jet impacts and the fires brought them down.

What I find completely off-putting is the emphasis on CD as some sort of litmus test. And since I've had these "discussions" for almost 6 years now, I've finally given up taking you guys seriously on this. There is zero evidence for any of the CD theories. It is a Trojan horse *designed* to take the steam out of any serious investigation of 9/11.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Though a CD agnostic, I agree with eveything else you said. I find it surprising that some who profess great knowledge about negative meme association and PSYOPS in general CAN'T see that in the larger public arena CD has been lumped in with the more outrageous theories of HOW they fell, mainly promulgated by the mainstream press.

That fact alone should be enough to show that regardless of one's stance on CD, the CD well has been poisoned, and has probably convinced all the people it's going to.

It's also why I generally avoid CD threads like the plague.
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Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:40 pm

Jeff wrote:
nomo wrote:
What I find completely off-putting is the emphasis on CD as some sort of litmus test. And since I've had these "discussions" for almost 6 years now, I've finally given up taking you guys seriously on this. There is zero evidence for any of the CD theories. It is a Trojan horse *designed* to take the steam out of any serious investigation of 9/11.


Image



I have serious doubts about the reasoning skills of someone who has looked at Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth materials and evidence and still dismisses the physical proof(s) as a mere "Trojan Horse" diversion "based on grainy videos."

So, Jeff. What do you think of that site's evidence? The one I've posted umpteen times.
The one with-
300 architectural and engineering professionals
and 1151 other supporters

http://www.ae911truth.org/
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
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Postby 8bitagent » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:42 pm

See I always wondered...what does "Inside Job" mean?

The mainstream news media had all sorts of "was 9/11 an inside job?" and "9/11 was too complex to merely be the work of Osama and 19 guys"...

but of course, most were talking about "inside airport help" and "middle eastern state sponsorship help".

I LAUGH at not just blowback, incompetence, "let it happen", but also "Cheney and Bush did it, 9/11 was an exclusive US inside job" or "Israel did it". 9/11=an NWO job, al Qaeda=NWO proxy foils.

This is why Im kind of a rabble rouser in the 9/11 truth research community all these years. While a lot of truthers get a confused puppy dog, head splodey' look when theyre confronted with videos of some of the hijackers hanging with Osama in an obvious Afghani safehouse, talking about jihad against americans(Its um...computer generated! yeah, thats it!) I love it.

Im fascinated by what has post 9/11 been called as "al Qaeda", I feel with every fibre they lead right back to the powers that be...and its almost like the powers that be knows we know that. It's a little game

And then you have most of the FBI/CIA/military REALLY believing its a life and death struggle to fight this al Qaeda/Osama creature...when theres the tiny elite who know whats up.

Hardly ANYONE in truther world is on the same thinking as the Michel Chossodofsky-Paul Thompson-Nafeez Ahmed-Sander Hicks-Peter Dale Scott, etc mindframe

Discussing and acknowledging Islamic terrorism is the cooties, its taboo.
Nope! Lets focus on fake planes, missiles, mininukes, etc.

See I KNOW that while the new Osama videos may very well be fake, the original 2001 "confession" video is NOT fake, but a sting operation.

The rich woven contextual tapestry snaking through the world of post BCCI/Iran contra deep politics and Islamic terrorism leading to 9/11 is MUCH MORE fascinating and rivetting than this Loose Change unsubstantiated parroted red herring that truthgatekeepers like Griffin,
Fetzer, Barret, etc promote.
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Postby Jeff » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:01 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:
So, Jeff. What do you think of that site's evidence?


Image

Since nothing I type in these threads seems to matter, from now on I'll communicate solely through photographs. CDers love photographs.
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Postby nomo » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:02 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:I have serious doubts about the reasoning skills of someone who has looked at Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth materials and evidence and still dismisses the physical proof(s) as a mere "Trojan Horse" diversion "based on grainy videos."


What physical proof? Seriously. They have none.
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Postby FourthBase » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:06 pm

Well, to be fair, there is more than zero evidence for controlled demolition/collapse facilitation/whatever you want to call it. Shit, there might even be 50% of the evidence needed to qualify as proof...but of course, if you don't already believe 100% then you're a gatekeeping spook or whatever. THAT'S THE ISSUE, TRUTHERS.
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Postby 8bitagent » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:23 pm

I think the argument is just worded wrong

I 100% believe the towers collapse was guaranteed/facilitated to collapse,
but I dont ascribe to the "controlled demolition" hypothesis.

As if the PTB would be that stupid to have endless reams of wires and such just waiting for people in Fresh Kills landfill to stumble upon on the conveyor belts..."foot...hand fragment...wallet...computer part...oh hey, whats this, bomb parts and wires? Whoah!"

Come on people.

Just ask yourself, IF you believe non Muslim powers that be were behind 9/11 as I fully believe, do you REALLY think theyd leave 9/11 up to chance?

Thats one heck of a chance to take, to *hope* the towers collapse. To *hope* your brainwashed dupes make it on the planes and direct them smack into the towers at high enough positions(remember, if TOO many people died on 9/11, youd have a whollllle different dynamic at play)

And IF the PTB told the truth about Flight 93, it was the first blow not to Islamic terrorism...but the New World Order...that is, if the passengers had a hand in Flight 93's demise
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Postby DrVolin » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:32 pm

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Hugh,

To be fair, two of the points on that slide from that organization, the one you posted early in this thread, are mutually exclusive. If there is significant horizontal ejection of material, then clearly the collapse is not entirely along the (assumed) path of most resistance.

Peccavi.
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Postby FourthBase » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:33 pm

Thats one heck of a chance to take, to *hope* the towers collapse. To *hope* your brainwashed dupes make it on the planes and direct them smack into the towers at high enough positions(remember, if TOO many people died on 9/11, youd have a whollllle different dynamic at play)


But there still would have been wars waged if the towers hadn't collapsed.

What people assume is that the collapses were needed either to induce psychological trauma or to bury sensitive records or both. But in terms of providing an impetus for military invasions/occupations and the Patriot Act etc, the only thing needed was for the planes to hit the buildings. Right?

And what exactly would the "different dynamic" have been if, say, 40 thousand people had died? And how would that putative dynamic have been bad for the perps? Isn't the altitude of the impact zones a result of planes simply not being able to fly low enough through Manhattan to hit, say, the 20th or 30th floors?
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Postby Searcher08 » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:38 pm

Given the fact that each WTC was demolished by two thermobaric bombs, which were planted in the central liftshaft, one just above the plane impact site, the other in the basement, using nothing more than a single fork-lift truck, all of this is moot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh-l1mr2h98
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Postby FourthBase » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:52 pm

Searcher08 wrote:Given the fact that each WTC was demolished by two thermobaric bombs, which were planted in the central liftshaft, one just above the plane impact site, the other in the basement, using nothing more than a single fork-lift truck, all of this is moot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh-l1mr2h98


Where's the green font?
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