Gold.

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Gold.

Postby Elihu » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:44 pm

Well for all unicorn chasers out there, the corporations owners are giving you a free bet on the viability of their state. Unlike powerball the odds are in your favor. And exponentially more winners. Please don't turn me in!
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
Elihu
 
Posts: 1418
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Gold.

Postby Elihu » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:45 pm

The Bond Market is The Foundation for the Gold Rally
By Mike McGlone, Special Contributor to Kitco News
Friday June 10, 2016 08:02
(Kitco News) - What is different this time, as global sovereign debt yields continue to decline to record lows reducing the opportunity cost of investing in gold and silver?! It is unprecedented for US Treasury bond yields to decline before and after the commencement of a Federal Reserve (Fed) tightening cycle. Market participants might not always understand why treasury bond yields are moving in a particular direction, but generally have benefited by heeding the signals from the trend in increasing or declining yields – less so from rates. Short term interest rates are controlled by the Fed, bond yields by the market, except when the Fed is buying massive amounts of bonds with the intention of lowering yields, which is what they did with quantitative easing (QE). A recent historic signal that something was clearly different was in 2014, when the Fed ended QE3 and US Treasury bond yields declined, sharply. TLT, the widely traded US Treasury bond ETF, gained 27% in 2014. The most recent, potentially historic signal has been the sharp decline in US Treasury bond yields since the Fed tightening. TLT has tacked on another 12% since December 16th. Both were not supposed to happen according to the vast consensus of economists and market strategists. According to the US Treasury bond market, the next move from the Fed is more likely to be easing.

The best investment opportunities are often against consensus. The 2016 year so far has generally been against the consensus – gold, silver and US Treasury bonds have been among the best performers. Following an extended period of below historical average volatility, stock market volatility was way over due for some simple mean reversion - and still is. But, there are few more powerful forces to raise the tide for all assets than increasing US Treasury bond prices. So what then after US Treasury bond yields finally reach their new lower plateau? We are clearly still in the midst of that journey with the US Treasury 10yr currently near 1.65%, compared to 0.03% in Germany and negative 0.17% in Japan. That wide spread is a foundation of support for the US dollar, or has been. Despite the wide spread, the US Dollar index has declined about 5% in 2016. What potentially is a more powerful force is the trend in the spread. With much of the rest of the world’s sovereign debt yields near zero, declining US Treasury bond yields mean narrowing spreads and a weakening US dollar. Primary beneficiaries, should continue to be gold and silver. As gold awaits a catalyst to propel it above $1,300/oz. it may come simply from US Treasury bond yields to continue doing what they have been for the past few decades – Spoiler:declining. Note, this former treasury bond trader who started in the business trading T-bond futures at the Chicago Board of Trade in the 1980’s never dreamed of such low global bond yields, but the trend is your friend until proven otherwise.
Elihu
 
Posts: 1418
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Gold.

Postby Elihu » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:08 am

you heard it here first

relocated
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39391
don't know if this was THE reason rome fell apart, but this one will coincide. get in there and gamble and pull at least a little something for you and your loved ones out of the casino. but don't get caught
Elihu
 
Posts: 1418
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Gold.

Postby Elihu » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:27 pm

lucky » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:32 am wrote:The front of all paper notes in the Uk bear the legend "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of Five pounds", ten pounds etc My question is who is making the promise (the bank of England?) and what do i get when I exchange my Five pound note? In other words what "is" five pounds

Sandeep Jaitly ‏@Bullionbasis 9h9 hours ago
The Etruscans 'denominated' their gold coin in silver coin and their silver coin in copper coin. This was good but still a form of fiat...
0 retweets 0 likes
Reply Retweet
Like
More
Sandeep Jaitly ‏@Bullionbasis 9h9 hours ago
If you count with 'pounds' (gold) you also count with 'shillings' (silver) and 'pence' (copper) because there was a relationship.
0 retweets 0 likes
Reply Retweet
Like
More
Sandeep Jaitly ‏@Bullionbasis 9h9 hours ago
The unit 'of account' - that is the unit used to count - cannot be separated from what is used to count with; the unit gold/copper coin.
0 retweets 0 likes
Reply Retweet
Like
More
Sandeep Jaitly ‏@Bullionbasis 9h9 hours ago
We should all have the 'right to tax'...in this way, we can get what we want.
0 retweets 0 likes
Reply Retweet
Like
More
Sandeep Jaitly ‏@Bullionbasis 9h9 hours ago
The last maharajas were well known for their charity alone and not being ostentatious thieves with fleets of Rolls Royces...
0 retweets 1 like
Reply Retweet
Like 1
More
Sandeep Jaitly ‏@Bullionbasis 9h9 hours ago
'Raja' means 'custodian' as in 'custodian of the museum'...we all have to follow their little rules like 'don't smash the statues'...
Elihu
 
Posts: 1418
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Gold.

Postby Elihu » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:34 pm

" My question is who is making the promise



could it have been

the purchaser giving his order for goods
Elihu
 
Posts: 1418
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Gold.

Postby Elihu » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:43 pm

1970 Federal minimum wage ~ 1.1g gold/hour ~ $46/hour (current)...
Elihu
 
Posts: 1418
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Gold.

Postby Elihu » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:47 pm

The mercantile, god-awful Indian blabbing about their "care home portfolio" or "property empire"... we need to cancel the fiat.

If one gold bill doesn't get settled at the stipulated time, it jeopardises lots of other gold bills. This is called 'currency failure'...

Bach never did opera...wasn't tempted by the bourgeois penny. The worst he did was write music in the 'French' style...

Soooo...a minimum wage of $46/hour means $80,000/year minimum as a salary for all. There's a reason gold/silver is money...not '$'...

We need more morbidly obese northern cooks talking about Jaffa cakes with southern snobs on the BBC...much more.
Elihu
 
Posts: 1418
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Gold.

Postby Elihu » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:53 pm

Personal tax (v. corporation) doesn't make sense otherwise we'd end up with teachers paying tax to pay themselves...
Elihu
 
Posts: 1418
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Gold.

Postby vanlose kid » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:01 pm

Elihu » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:47 pm wrote:...

Bach never did opera...wasn't tempted by the bourgeois penny. The worst he did was write music in the 'French' style...

...



This, to me, back in the days of my youth, was all that had to be said.

Usura.

*
"Teach them to think. Work against the government." – Wittgenstein.
User avatar
vanlose kid
 
Posts: 3182
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Gold.

Postby Elvis » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:12 pm

I just re-read this thread, with the benefit of my last two years of studying MMT—about which Jack posted in this thread back in 2013!

See the current MMT thread: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41320

And see page 19 of that thread for a recent post about gold: Why Trump and Judy Shelton want the US back on the gold standard

I hope that by now we all understand that any return to a gold standard would be disastrous and in the short time it lasted would likely cause the biggest depression in U.S. history.

I searched up this classic thread to post this rather fascinating gold story:

https://www.newyorker.com/business/curr ... goldfinger
The Strange Secret History of Operation Goldfinger

By James Ledbetter

June 10, 2017

Image
In the sixties, the U.S. government ran a secret project to look for gold in the oddest places: seawater, meteorites, plants, even deer antlers. ILLUSTRATION BY CYNTHIA KITTLER

In September of 1965, Joe Barr, a Treasury Department official with a long history in government, agreed to meet with a group of members of Congress from Western states. He knew what to expect. Earlier that year, he had met with the same group, and endured its ire over the Treasury’s reluctance to help the American gold industry. After the Second World War, world leaders had met at Bretton Woods, in New Hampshire, and, as part of an agreement on an international monetary system, had fixed the price of gold at thirty-five dollars an ounce. This had, predictably, depressed the U.S. mining industry, even as the demand for private gold shot up. The more easily obtained sources of gold had been depleted over the years, while harder-to-reach sources became more difficult to mine profitably, given the static price. Foreign competition—chiefly from Canada and South Africa, where mines were less depleted and labor costs were lower—was far more intense by 1960 than it had been after the war, when the price of gold was set. The United States was a distant third in gold production. Rather than attempt to compete, many mines simply shut down.

Politicians from Western states, where most gold was mined in the U.S., considered this an economic crisis, and by 1965 they had lost their patience. Nineteen Senators—including influential Democrats like Frank Church, Henry (Scoop) Jackson, Warren Magnuson, and George McGovern—signed a blunt letter to President Lyndon Johnson accusing him of letting America’s gold industry die. Gold, they said, “is the only commodity held down to a price established 31 years ago and compelled to sell only to the imposer of this strangling restriction—the Federal government.” (Since the nineteen-thirties, Treasury was the only domestic entity that could legally buy investment gold.) Badly needed reform, they added, was being blocked by Treasury’s “negative attitude.” These words were just short of a threat that the senators would take action on gold with or without the Administration’s support. It was in this atmosphere, which Barr described as “more heated than usual,” that he trekked to Capitol Hill that September day. Barr later said that at the meeting he had “a stroke of inspiration.” Instead of maintaining the government’s hard line, he suggested that “possibly the Government could assist in this area by some sort of an R&D approach in the discovery of deposits and in the extraction processes.” It wasn’t the price increase the Western senators hoped for, but it pleased them nonetheless.

Barr and a colleague then went to see Donald Hornig, who was Johnson’s science and technology adviser and one of the most accomplished American scientists ever to occupy a position of political power. Hornig had worked on the Manhattan Project. He also worked on the space program and was an expert in ocean-desalination technology. Responding to Treasury’s inquiry about gold research, Hornig asked the Geological Survey and the Bureau of Mines for a study, and word came back that, yes, “there is indeed an opportunity to secure significant quantities of additional gold production in the United States within the $35 an ounce price limitation.” The solution seemed simple enough: deploy state-of-the-art technology to detect gold and then extract it.

Thus began a strange, untold episode in modern American history. In the mid-to-late nineteen-sixties, as gold’s role in the international monetary system was about to implode, a handful of top Johnson Administration officials, a few sympathetic members of Congress, and hundreds of government-paid scientists set off on a nuclear-age alchemical quest. Barr gave it the code name Operation Goldfinger. The government would end up looking for gold in the oddest places: seawater, meteorites, plants, even deer antlers. In an era during which people wanted badly to believe in the peaceful use of subatomic energy, plans were drawn up to use nuclear explosives to extract gold from deep inside the Earth, and even to use particle accelerators to try to change base metals into gold.

Operation Goldfinger represented the logical culmination of a government obsession with not having enough gold. The post-war global economy was expanding much faster than the gold supply that propped it up. Dollars freely convertible to gold were the underpinning of the world’s monetary system, and President John F. Kennedy—and many others—feared that if holders of dollars and other U.S. securities were to cash in their paper for gold, there wouldn’t be enough gold to exchange, and a global crisis could ensue. In a private 1962 conversation with the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Kennedy framed the shortage of monetary gold starkly: “My God, this is the time . . . if everyone wants gold, we’re all going to be ruined because there is not enough gold to go around.”

Against such fears, which continued through the Johnson Administration, Goldfinger’s promise was irresistible. If the predictions made by Hornig and Treasury officials in early 1966 were to come true, the initial investment of a few million dollars would, in just a few years, look like the bargain of the century. A sunny Hornig wrote to President Johnson in February, 1966, “It appears by spending from $10 million to $20 million per year we stand a good chance of adding several billion dollars to our gold reserves at the present price. With luck it might be much more.” Treasury’s general counsel asserted that “the President’s scientific advisers are confident of the success of the program [and] estimate that new gold reserves valued at up to $10 billion could be expected within five years.” That amount—ten billion dollars—was more than five times the volume of gold then produced annually worldwide. Goldfinger, to its enthusiastic backers, wasn’t like discovering some new gold mine—it was like discovering a new planet.

While the Johnson Administration sparred with Congress over seemingly basic issues like passing a tax bill, there was nonetheless consensus between the executive branch and a handful of congressmen to disguise Operation Goldfinger as a broad-based metal-mining program. There were several motivations for secrecy: no actual funds, for example, had been appropriated for government gold-hunting. A push for secrecy also came from the Federal Reserve chairman William McChesney Martin, who was concerned that “we simply do not know how foreign central banks would interpret this move.” As Barr wrote to his boss, the Treasury Secretary Henry Fowler, “There is general agreement among those I talked to that this program should be wrapped up in a search for all minerals. They advised us (the Treasury and the Administration) to deny or refuse to comment on any leaks . . . and to stick with the cover story of a search for minerals in short supply in the United States.”

Operation Goldfinger took the form of hundreds of research projects designed to find gold in places likely and very unlikely. The Roberts Mountains in north central Nevada had long seemed like a promising source of gold, and samples from dozens of areas were taken to search for surface minerals (such as limestone) known to be associated with gold deposits. Other studies were long shots. For decades, various scientists had found traces of gold in coal, and so the U.S. Geological Survey sifted through coal in dozens of locations in Appalachia and the Midwest. The government even took samples from coal ash and “coal-washing waste products received from various industrial plants.” These did not yield gold bonanzas. In the nineteen-forties in Czechoslovakia, scientists reported finding gold in the herb Equisetum palustre, or marsh horsetail. When government scientists collected twenty-two samples from across the United States, however, they found gold concentrations well below one part per million, and concluded, “Equisetum would not be useful in prospecting for gold.”

Much of the project’s early enthusiasm was turned loose on funding state-of-the-art gadgets. The U.S.G.S. developed truck-mounted neutron-activation systems, one for detecting silver and one for gold. “It is no longer necessary even to collect a sample, as long as a truck can be driven over the spot that one wants analyzed,” a government report boasted. The Bureau of Mines also worked on “a portable X-ray probe that can be lowered into small diameter drill holes” to find gold. James Bond would have been proud.

For Operation Goldfinger, no scientific plan was too obscure to consider: Is there gold in meteorites that hit the Earth? Is there gold in Colorado peat? Is there gold in plants and trees? Is there gold in deer antlers? In almost all cases, government scientists found that the answer was yes—but not at quantities that even approached commercial viability.

“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
User avatar
Elvis
 
Posts: 7562
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Gold

Postby lucky » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:52 am

Sorry to start a post that no doubt has been covered elsewhere but I couldn't find anything so please merge if appropriate...but the reason I wanted to post was because gold has gone from $1530 on March 30th to $1950 and climbing as from yesterday... some people have made a small fortune to add to their large one,
There's holes in the sky where rain gets in
the holes are small
that's why rain is thin.
User avatar
lucky
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:39 am
Location: Interzone
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Gold

Postby Harvey » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:14 am

And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
User avatar
Harvey
 
Posts: 4200
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:49 am
Blog: View Blog (20)

Re: Gold

Postby lucky » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:09 am

Thanks Harvey - i know not how to delete my post and put on to the linked one you sent - a little help mods?
There's holes in the sky where rain gets in
the holes are small
that's why rain is thin.
User avatar
lucky
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:39 am
Location: Interzone
Blog: View Blog (0)

Ha!

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:16 am

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33158

Should I merge all three and see which title comes out? (Believe it or not we don't get to choose and it doesn't allow you to change it afterward. Weird bug.)
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Gold

Postby Nordic » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:47 am

It was obvious a few months ago that this was gonna happen. As the petro dollar falls apart, the price of gold will continue to climb. Actually the gold price is provably holding its value while the fake fiat currencies shrink away.

Everybody should be buying it if they can.

I can’t, I have zero savings and too much debt on top of that.

In lieu of gold, guns and ammo will probably retain value as well, along with well-watered agricultural land. Of course those sent as liquid as gold. Or as easy to hide in your house.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 177 guests