The 2012 "Election" thread

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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby ninakat » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:25 pm

Norman Pollack wrote:Why Romney? Because his transparency as a Neanderthal may, just may, bring people into the streets, while under Obama passivity and false consciousness appear almost irreversible.


That's wishful thinking, as Pollack actually does understand, hence his "endorsement" of Romney being partially tongue-in-cheek. Because Pollack knows full well just how completely useless the Obamabots have become -- you know, those people who comprise the Democrat party that still somehow is supposed to come together to really fight for social justice, for ending the wars, for all the good things that most of us here actually DO agree on.

Obama and His Silent Base
by NORMAN POLLACK
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby compared2what? » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:02 pm

ninakat wrote:
Norman Pollack wrote:Because Pollack knows full well just how completely useless the Obamabots have become -- you know, those people who comprise the Democrat party that still somehow is supposed to come together to really fight for social justice, for ending the wars, for all the good things that most of us here actually DO agree on.


I'm not sure by whom that's supposed. But whoever they are, they must have stopped paying attention to politics shortly after they started reading chapter books if they suppose that the Democratic party is going to come together to fight for social justice, or for ending the wars, or for all the good things that most of us here agree we'd like to see -- or, ftm, to do any goddamn thing at all apart from whatever's necessary for the perpetuation of the Democratic party -- at any time or for any reason. All things being equal.

But I'm also not sure what bearing the non-existence of that prospect has on the question of whether or not to vote in an American presidential election. I mean, who expects their national political leaders to bring about social justice? How? And why?

_______________--

Also, it might be the same question, but fwiw: Where do you see, hear from or otherwise discern the existence of Obamabots? As far as I can tell, he's got practically no popular constituency as an individual at all.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby freemason9 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:12 pm

I think it is wrong to believe that the loudest and most politically visible members of our population represent the majority. That applies to both extremes.
The real issue is that there is extremely low likelihood that the speculations of the untrained, on a topic almost pathologically riddled by dynamic considerations and feedback effects, will offer anything new.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby compared2what? » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:00 am

I agree. Because....Well. There is no extreme left at the national level, for one thing. But besides that, surveys and personal experience both have always led me to believe that the majority of the American population doesn't actually waste much of its thought or time on political questions.

...

Yep. Just checked. As usual, the majority of Americans love God and family (in huge numbers); can't name the Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court or the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (in large-ish numbers); and think that Obama bailed out the banks (ditto).

In terms of party affiliation, I believe it's a pretty even numerical split, which -- also as usual -- favors the right, due to greater ideological unity among factions plus fewer of them.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Laodicean » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:34 am

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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:39 pm

compared2what? wrote:Also, it might be the same question, but fwiw: Where do you see, hear from or otherwise discern the existence of Obamabots? As far as I can tell, he's got practically no popular constituency as an individual at all.


I know. It's a low grade right-wing myth, like the "liberal media," but it's been adopted on the left for the smarm effect. To be fair, many Obama worshippers (they're not bots) congregate at certain online venues, and certain writers show signs of it. A lot of them are just party hacks, or pundit hacks who can turn on a dime and usually are just in it to sniff the testosterone. Others are the type who are still in denial about Coup 2000 and want to perpetually scapegoat Nader, more Democratic footsoldiers than "Obamabots."

So "practically no popular consitutency as an individual" is accurate, in my view. But what passes for politics around here is branded through individuals. We don't get to choose policies or even parties. In part this is because of the constitutional set-up. But the main thing is the way the media packages and delivers it as a one-on-one sport. The individualist ideology also plays a role. We don't pick leaders or representatives, we pick winners, damn it!

As a society we worship a great many "leaders" of the celebrity variety. Finally, you've doubtless seen how common it is for people to assume that your well-considered opinions are a product of individual attraction or repulsion: You're accused of saying something because you "hate Bush," or you "love Obama," or else something completely unrelated to one of these people is automatically pigeonholed as allegiance to a person.

(Standing at Ground Zero with a "Stop the 9/11 Cover-Up" sign in 2004, I got a number of non-sequiturs along these lines: "What about your friend, Clinton?!" Which is a crazy conclusion to draw. There is an assumption that everyone thinks whatever they think because of "partisanship," a two-team sport.)
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Postby Perelandra » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:10 pm

Supreme Court Refuses to Block Early Voting in Ohio

In a one-sentence decision reading: "The application for stay presented to Justice Kagan and by her referred to the Court is denied," the U.S. Supreme Court has extricated itself from a case that could decide the presidential election and increased the chances that President Obama wins Ohio and the election. Briefly recapping the situation, early voting has already started in Ohio. However, the Republican Secretary of State, Jon Husted, decided to close the polls on the Saturday, Sunday, and Monday before election day except for military families. They would be allowed to vote then but nobody else would.

The Obama campaign took the state to court on the grounds that there was no valid reason to allow one class of voters to get three extra days and not others. Husted knew very well, of course, that the majority of people who vote the weekend before the election are Democrats, many of them lower-income voters who can't take off from work on election day. The Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the state could not keep the polls open for some voters but not all. Then Husted appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court to prevent the Appeals Court's ruling from taking effect. The Supreme Court refused to grant the stay, so all Ohio Voters will be allowed to vote the weekend before the election.

This is probably the most important news of the day, even more than the presidential debate. An estimated 100,000 people will vote in the weekend before the election, the majority of them Democrats. If their votes help Obama carry Ohio, it would take a near miracle for Romney to get to 270 electoral votes. He would have to win Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, and Colorado and a few more swing states.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2012/Pres/Maps/Oct17.html#item-1
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby ninakat » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:58 pm

The Predictable Consequence of Lesser Evilism
On Wasting Your Vote

By M.G. Piety

October 16, 2012 "Information Clearing House"
- A disturbing number of Americans are going to end up wasting their votes in this next election. They’re unhappy with the status quo, but instead of changing it, they’re only going to reinforce it. I’m not talking about democrats who are so unhappy with Obama that they’re planning to vote third-party. I’m talking about democrats who are unhappy with Obama, but who are so afraid of Romney that they’re going to vote for Obama anyway and justify that vote by invoking “the lesser of the two evils” argument. It’s about time someone pointed out that it’s the invocation of that argument to defend otherwise indefensible political choices that has driven us relentlessly into our current position between a rock and a hard place.

Albert Einstein is reputed to have said that the greatest invention in human history was compound interest. I beg to differ. I think it’s the “lesser of two evils” argument. It’s brilliant. Give people two options, neither of which they find appealing, convince them that a third option, a genuinely attractive one, is just not practicable and that they must thus choose between the bad and the worse, and you’ll be able to get them to choose something they would never otherwise choose.

You can get people to do anything that way. You start by offering them a choice between something that is just marginally unpleasant and something that is really repellent. Once you’ve gotten them to choose the marginally unpleasant, you raise the bar (just a little mind you, you don’t want them to catch on to what you’re doing). Now you offer them a choice between something to which they have really strong objections and something that is deeply offensive. Most people, of course, will choose the former, if they think it’s either that or the latter. Now you offer people who’ve become inured to living under objectionable conditions a choice between even worse conditions and something that is truly unthinkable. It’s not mystery what they will choose.

There’s been a lot of angry posturing from Americans who think of themselves as progressive about how the purported political center in this country has been moving inexorably to the right, yet it’s these very people who are directly responsible for the shift. If you vote for a candidate whose farther right than you would prefer, well, then you’re shifting the political “center” to the right. Republicans aren’t responsible for the increasingly conservative face of the democratic party. Democrats are responsible for it. Democrats keep racing to the polls like lemmings being chased by the boogeyman.

“This is not the election to vote for real change” runs the democratic refrain. We’re in a crisis! We must do whatever it takes to ensure that the republicans don’t get in office even if that means voting for a democrat whose policies we don’t really like and which are only marginally distinguishable from those of the republican candidate. That “margin” is important, we’re reminded again and again. That little difference is going to make all the difference.

Even if that were true, which it ought to be clear by now it is not (see Bart Gruzalski’s “Jill Stein and the 99 Percent”), it would still offer a very poor justification for voting for a candidate one doesn’t really like. Why? Because it is an expression of short-term thinking. Thomas Hobbes argued that privileging short-term over long-term goals was irrational, and yet that’s what we’ve been doing in this country for as long as I can remember. Americans are notoriously short-term oriented. As Luc Sante noted in a piece in the New York Review of Books, America is “the country of the perpetual present tense.” Perhaps that’s part of the anti-intellectualism that Richard Hofstadter wrote about. “Just keep the republicans out of office for this election!” we’re always commanded. “We can worry about real change later!”

Of course anyone who stopped to think about it ought to realize that that mythical “later” is never going to come. Our choices are getting worse not better, and if we keep invoking the “lesser of the two evils” to justify them, we are in effect, digging our own graves.

God is not going to deliver to us from the clouds the candidate of our dreams, the candidate who despite his (or perhaps her) wildly populist views somehow manages to win over the corporate powers we have allowed, through our own incorrigible stupidity, to control the political process in this country. If we are ever going to see real political change of the sort progressives purport to want, then we are going to
have to be brave enough to risk losing an election. Which shouldn’t require all that much bravery when one thinks about it, because real progressives have been losing elections for as long as anyone can remember in that the democrats haven’t been genuinely progressive for as long as anyone can remember.

If you vote for a democrat because you think of yourself as progressive you are wasting your vote because what you are actually saying is that you are willing to support a candidate who is not really progressive, that the democrats can continue their relentless march to the right and that you will back them all the way. That is, if you vote for a democrat because you say you are progressive, you are saying one thing and doing another. But actions, as everyone knows, speak louder than words. You can go on posturing about how progressive you are, but if you vote for a democrat that posturing is empty.

If we are ever going to see real progressive political change in this country we have to brave enough to openly risk defeat, and we have to have faith that our fellow progressives will be similarly brave. William James makes this point very eloquently in his essay “The Will to Believe.” “A social organism,” he wrote,

of any sort whatever, large or small, is what it is because each member proceeds to his own duty with a trust that the other members will simultaneously do theirs. Wherever a desired result is achieved by the co-operation of many independent persons, its existence as a fact is a pure consequence of the precursive faith in one another of those immediately concerned. A government, an army, a commercial system, a ship, a college, an athletic team, all exist on this condition, without which not only is nothing achieved, but nothing is even attempted. A whole train of passengers (individually brave enough) will be looted by a few highwaymen, simply because the latter can count on one another, while each passenger fears that if he makes a movement of resistance, he will be shot before any one else backs him up. If we believed that the whole car-full would rise at once with us, we should each severally rise, and train-robbing would never even be attempted. There are, then, cases where a fact cannot come at all unless a preliminary faith exists in its coming.

Progressive political change will never be a fact unless we have faith in its coming, unless we have faith that others will back us up when we refuse to be forced to vote yet again for a candidate we do not like.

I, for one, abhor cowardice. I’m not going to be intimidated into voting for a candidate I don’t like by threats of the “greater evil.” I do not expect that my candidate will win the election. I expect, however, that my vote will count for something and not merely in the sense that it will allow me to preserve my self respect. I’m not afraid of being condemned as naively optimistic. Without such optimism we’d never have had democracy in the first place. Democracy, one of the crowning achievements of human history, is precisely the product of the courage to act on one’s conscience and that faith that others will do so as well. If we’ve lost those things, then we will get the president we deserve.

M.G. Piety teaches philosophy at Drexel University. She is the editor and translator of Soren Kierkegaard’s Repetition and Philosophical Crumbs. Her latest book is: Ways of Knowing: Kierkegaard’s Pluralist Epistemology. She can be reached at: mgpiety@drexel.edu
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby NeonLX » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:58 pm

Only thing is...for this election, I really do fear that we are very close to the end of the line. Obomb'em *might* buy us a little more time than Bombney would...it's coming down to just that for me.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Luther Blissett » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:06 pm

Ms. Piety is awesome. I wish my friends fought with me like that.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Project Willow » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:37 pm

:lol:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nation-tunes-in-to-see-which-sociopath-more-likabl,29946/

Nation Tunes In To See Which Sociopath More Likable This Time
OCTOBER 16, 2012 | ISSUE 48•42 | MORE NEWS

White House Slam Dunk Contest Results In No Slam Dunks
Marauding Gay Hordes Drag Thousands Of Helpless Citizens From Marriages After Obama Drops Defense Of Marriage Act
HEMPSTEAD, NY—According to reports, millions of viewers across the country are expected to tune in to tonight’s town-hall-style presidential debate at Hofstra University in order to determine which complete and utter sociopath they find more likable this time around.

“I’m very curious to see which one of these two clinically sociopathic individuals will present the most convincing and authentic approximation of an actual human conscience tonight,” said Cincinnati-area voter Miranda Harrick, 40, adding that both candidates, like all successful politicians, were undeniably skilled at such calculated artifice. “I think whoever is able to best manipulate me into thinking they experience normative emotional states such as empathy and regret will probably have my vote come November, so I’m excited to see what happens.”

The debate figures to be especially important for undecided voters, 91 percent of whom said in a pre-debate poll that they were still waiting for one sociopath to win them over with the perfect combination of superficial charm, deluded grandeur, and pathological lying.

According to polls, viewer consensus following the first debate suggested Mitt Romney had performed a far more convincing impersonation of someone with real feelings and a capacity for human compassion. Voters praised the former governor’s ability to conceal his complete social disconnection and underlying hostility behind a wall of colloquial rhetoric and an approximation of warmth they described as “much more realistic” than Obama’s.

“Last debate, Romney was a great sociopath,” said Florida voter Jeff Yu, 28, who remarked that the Republican candidate’s impressive ability to simulate the appearance of caring had improved markedly since the beginning of the campaign. “He looked very comfortable and confident up there, even against a seasoned sociopath like Obama. He really helped me ignore the reality that to him, as to any politician, social interaction is nothing but a never-ending game of deception and psychological subterfuge, the only object of which is personal gain.”

Following Obama’s noticeable hesitancy during the first debate, many of his supporters expressed worry that he was struggling to effect emotional normalcy with the same single-minded cunning and feigned humanity he exhibited in 2008. They agreed the pressure is now on the president to show that he has not forgotten how to callously manipulate the American public into thinking he is anything at all like them.

“I want to see that same beguiling sociopath who, four years ago, conned me into believing his psyche was somehow differently wired from every other charming, sociopathic politician who had ever lived,” said Obama supporter Phoebe Greenwald, 43. “What happened to all his seemingly earnest, though of course meticulously contrived, rhetoric about hope and change that made us all like him and think he was in some way psychologically healthy and well-adjusted, which of course no human being in the history of modern politics ever has been?”

“Obama just needs to do what [sociopathic Vice President] Joe Biden did last week,” Greenwald added. “I mean, he masterfully out-sociopathed Paul Ryan, which is no easy task, believe me."

No matter the outcome of tonight’s debate, sources agreed that the most talented sociopath will likely be elected in November and, depending on what kind of support he might receive from like-minded sociopaths in Congress, will then spend the next four years satisfying his malformed brain’s ceaseless thirst for power and glory.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Project Willow » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:13 pm

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-larry-king-third-party-debate-moderator-20121017,0,5390151.story

Larry King to moderate third-party presidential debate

...The debate, which will be held in Chicago, will feature Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson, Green Party candidate Jill Stein, Constitution Party candidate Virgil Goode, and Rocky Anderson of the newly formed Justice Party. The event will be broadcast live on Ora TV, the digital programming service where King launched his online talk show, “Larry King Now,” earlier this year. The Free and Equal Elections Foundation and, for unclear reasons, Russia Today will also stream the debate online.

“We are honored to have Larry King moderate this historic debate,” Christina Tobin, founder and chair of the foundation, said in a release. “The previous debates between President Obama and Gov. Romney have failed to address the issues that really concern everyday Americans. From foreign policy, to the economy, to taboo subjects like our diminishing civil liberties and the drug war, Americans deserve a real debate, real solutions, and real electoral options.”
...
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby freemason9 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:58 pm

NeonLX wrote:Only thing is...for this election, I really do fear that we are very close to the end of the line. Obomb'em *might* buy us a little more time than Bombney would...it's coming down to just that for me.


Yup, me too. Besides, I don't want that guy in the Magic Underwear and his eight Prozac wives messing around with the Oval Office.
The real issue is that there is extremely low likelihood that the speculations of the untrained, on a topic almost pathologically riddled by dynamic considerations and feedback effects, will offer anything new.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Project Willow » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:14 pm

Wow. This is RI folks, y'all know it's more complicated than that.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:16 pm

Project Willow wrote::lol:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nation-tunes-in-to-see-which-sociopath-more-likabl,29946/

Nation Tunes In To See Which Sociopath More Likable This Time
OCTOBER 16, 2012 | ISSUE 48•42 | MORE NEWS


Satire? I fail to see any way in which this doesn't qualify as a highly observant, empirically accurate analytic text for a college-level political science course.
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