'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby barracuda » Sat May 22, 2010 12:50 am

My understanding at this point is that it will continue spewing pollution into the gulf until BP can find a way to drill a second well, in which case there will be another potential spill waiting to happen, and the Deepwater hole will still continue leaking while the Keys, Miami, the Eastern American seaboard, and eventually Scandanavia will all be covered in a bunch of shit that we could have just as well used to burn in our cars and make plastic bags out of to carry the cottage cheese home from Piggly Wiggly. Months? Years?
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby chiggerbit » Sat May 22, 2010 12:55 am

And if the company (or companies) go bankrupt, then for how long?
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby chiggerbit » Sat May 22, 2010 12:58 am

Those three companies are going to find a way to make the government (taxpayers) fund the fix (pay them), aren't they?
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby barracuda » Sat May 22, 2010 1:10 am

Well, BP only made $13.96 billion last year, down from $25.59 billion in 2008, so the way things are these days, they're almost out of business now.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 2012 Countdown » Sat May 22, 2010 1:38 am

The plan as far as i can tell is the Kill Shot will happen Tues. If that fails, BP says it will be AUGUST before they can do anything else.

So...this is why I think the Parishes are waiting till next week to start freelancing on our own.
Talk from the rabble was, 'hey why wait, let do this now', but officials said they needed time to announce the meeting. I believe this is cover to give those who should be helping us with this a last chance.
It makes sense. Kill Shot Tues. -failing that, then Jefferson Parish has its meeting Wed., then Plaq. Parish on Thurs..
I heard the meeting announcements in early afternoon. I wondered why wait till Wed. in particular to have the first meeting? Surely Monday would be enough time. Then later I heard the Hail Mary was delayed (it was supposed to go on Sun). It all made sense then.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 82_28 » Sat May 22, 2010 1:59 am

OK. I ask again. Where is this US Govt that supposedly can do anything it puts its mind to? There should be a well delineated gameplan by now. Namely, BP is out of business as of now, all assets seized and no contractors are given any leeway whatsoever. Nobody gets any money. They fix it today -- or in August, whichever comes sooner. Man, wouldn't all that money used to "bail-out" virtually nothing look good about now. It's not looking good. This could be the final stake in the great USofA's heart.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby Jeff » Sat May 22, 2010 3:11 am

Louisiana Fishermen Contemplating Suicide, Need Mental Health Services

Desperation is setting in in Southeast Louisiana. "I spoke to a group of fishermen, mainly Vietnamese Americans and a group of them came up to me and said, they told me that they contemplated suicide because they're in such despair," says Congressman Joseph Cao. He says fishermen are feeling compounded stress on top of post-Katrina troubles. "For some people, this is almost a boiling point where they can no longer handle it and they're going to crack."

"These are grown men that broke down and cried this morning because they don't know what to do and we don't know how long it's going to be," says Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby justdrew » Sat May 22, 2010 3:17 am

Jeff wrote:Louisiana Fishermen Contemplating Suicide, Need Mental Health Services

Desperation is setting in in Southeast Louisiana. "I spoke to a group of fishermen, mainly Vietnamese Americans and a group of them came up to me and said, they told me that they contemplated suicide because they're in such despair," says Congressman Joseph Cao. He says fishermen are feeling compounded stress on top of post-Katrina troubles. "For some people, this is almost a boiling point where they can no longer handle it and they're going to crack."

"These are grown men that broke down and cried this morning because they don't know what to do and we don't know how long it's going to be," says Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser.


how long it's going to be is at least a decade.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby Nordic » Sat May 22, 2010 3:18 am

82_28 wrote:OK. I ask again. Where is this US Govt that supposedly can do anything it puts its mind to? There should be a well delineated gameplan by now. Namely, BP is out of business as of now, all assets seized and no contractors are given any leeway whatsoever. Nobody gets any money. They fix it today -- or in August, whichever comes sooner. Man, wouldn't all that money used to "bail-out" virtually nothing look good about now. It's not looking good. This could be the final stake in the great USofA's heart.


Yeah, I'm with you. Say a truck overturns on the highway and spills toxic chemicals. You don't wait around for the fucking trucking company to clean it up. Hell no, you send out the fire department, the hazmat teams, etc. etc. The trucking company has nothing to do with it, except to PAY THE FUCKING BILL if it turns out they're liable.

This is just outrageous, how the United States Government, to whom we pay trillions in taxes, and who spends our money to the tune of half a trillion dollars a year to "protect our borders" can't even get up off the lazy-boy to lift a finger to protect, well, our fucking BORDERS.

I'm so sick and tired of being angry. We should just get it over with and start cutting off heads. The words "There will be blood" occur to me.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 82_28 » Sat May 22, 2010 5:30 am

It's utterly tear inducing. But have faith, it's just simple marshland reeds and meaningless turtles and fish. The fucking companies and their politicians they bought are much, much, much more important and will see us through this. They are the experts and we must rely upon them.

This is it. This whole shebang is over. Fucking assclowns. I do hope riots begin soon. Yes, I actually do. A pacifist, like myself totally welcomes riots. And beer to chill out with. Beer will always be more important to me. Sorry.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby Peachtree Pam » Sat May 22, 2010 8:52 am

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/pet ... g-the-leak

Here's one man's take on BP's strategy:

Published on The Smirking Chimp (http://www.smirkingchimp.com)
BP's Priority Is Not Stopping The Leak
By Pete Muldoon
Created May 21 2010 - 12:59am

It's becoming pretty obvious that BP's top priority at the moment is not mitigating the damage from the gulf oil spill, but trying to find a way to keep from paying for what they've done.

The New York Times is reporting [1] that the EPA has ordered BP to find a new chemical dispersant to use on the gulf oil leak.

Citing worries about a fragile coastal environment, the federal Environmental Protection Agency [2] on Thursday gave [3] the giant energy company BP 24 hours to select a less toxic chemical than the one that it is now using to break up crude oil gushing from a ruined well in the Gulf of Mexico…

In seeking to break up the oil bubbling to the surface from the Deepwater Horizon well, BP has sprayed nearly 700,000 gallons of Corexit chemical dispersants on the surface of the gulf and directly onto the leaking well head, a mile underwater. It is by far the largest use of chemicals to break up an oil spill [4] in United States waters to date.

That's a lot of dispersant. Surely it's necessary?

The purpose of the dispersants is to break up the crude oil into tiny droplets that will sink into the water rather than float, and thus be more easily diluted by ocean currents, so that oil slicks do not hurt marine life on the surface or affect sensitive shoreline ecosystems.

But all dispersants are types of detergents and at best are mildly toxic, so applying them requires a careful calculation about whether the dispersant-oil mixture will cause more or fewer problems than untreated crude oil would.

Now, you may have heard that BP is refusing to allow scientists to use accurate, modern equipment to measure the flow rate at the wellhead, and is teaming up with the government to try to make its original much lower estimate stick, an estimate that has been widely discredited by independent observers. From an earlier story [5]:

BP has repeatedly said that its highest priority is stopping the leak, not measuring it. “There’s just no way to measure it,” Kent Wells, a BP senior vice president, said in a recent briefing.

This is PR bullshit. How can you possibly begin to know how to stop the leak if you don't even know how big it is? There are a whole host of reasons to figure this out, foremost among them being that it's essential to solving the engineering problem. But there are two other reasons that are almost as important. The first is so that we can accurately assess the damage when it comes time to make BP pay for what it's done. The second is so that we can have a much better understanding of the risks involved in drilling these wells, risks that the industry repeatedly lied about.

Yet for decades, specialists have used a technique that is almost tailor-made for the problem. With undersea gear that resembles the ultrasound machines in medical offices, they measure the flow rate from hot-water vents on the ocean floor. Scientists said that such equipment could be tuned to allow for accurate measurement of oil and gas flowing from the well.

Richard Camilli and Andy Bowen, of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts, who have routinely made such measurements, spoke extensively to BP last week, Mr. Bowen said. They were poised to fly to the gulf to conduct volume measurements.

But they were contacted late in the week and told not to come, at around the time BP decided to lower a large metal container to try to capture the leak. That maneuver failed. They have not been invited again.

Ok, so BP is using chemical dispersants that require "careful calculations" in order to determine whether or not their use causes more damage than doing nothing. And yet they refuse to allow independent scientists in to determine the actual rate of flow.

Now, you may wonder why BP wouldn't want an accurate flow rate. After all, it's obviously something they'll need in order to mitigate this disaster, right?

The answer is that BP has no interest in mitigating this disaster. BP is interested in mitigating how much this disaster is going to cost BP, and that's it.

From the first story [6]:

Many experts in the field wonder why dispersants are being used at all so far out in the gulf, and why the federal agencies whose approval was required to apply the chemicals signed off on the plan.

Dispersants are conventionally applied to move oil off the surface of the ocean to protect marine life there and to prevent large amounts of surface oil from coming ashore. Yet the well that was left leaking by the sinking of the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in April is 50 miles from shore, which could be too far for the dispersants to play a helpful role in protecting coastal ecosystems, some experts said.

Why would BP spend millions on dispersants that will have no net benefit to the environment?

Here's your answer:

Recent research shows that rather than degrading the oil so that it disappears — a natural process that occurs over time — the dispersants move it to a different part of the ocean where, in theory, it causes less trouble. As in a shaken bottle of vegetable oil-based salad dressing, “what goes down, eventually comes up” somewhere, Dr. Fingas said.

Huge underwater plumes of dispersed oil have been spotted drifting in the gulf over the last week — a predictable consequence of dispersant use, according to experts including Dr. Fingas, because the oil droplets sink and are carried by underwater currents.

Frederic Hauge, head of the international environment group Bellona, said that the use of dispersants can make it harder to track a spill and to measure the effect of the oil and chemicals, because “you don’t know where it will pop up next.”

So BP is refusing to allow anyone to take the critical measurements of the flow rate from this well, because they know damn well that it a hell of a lot more than 5000 barrels a day. In fact, McClatchy reported today [7] that a scientist testified to a House Energy subcommittee that his estimate of the flow rate was 95,000 barrels (4 millions gallons!) per day. And in order to make sure that no one can prove that this 5000 barrel number is wrong, they're using dangerous chemicals to disperse the oil across the world's seas so that no one will ever be able hold them liable for the true cost of the disaster.

Sure, all that dispersant will just make things worse, but who ever really believed that BP gave a damn about the environment anyway?



Links:
[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/scien ... se.html?hp
[2] http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference ... ne=nyt-org
[3] http://globalwarming.house.gov/spillcam
[4] http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference ... classifier
[5] http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/us/14oil.html
[6] http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/scien ... se.html?hp
[7] http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/m ... n-thought/
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby Jeff » Sat May 22, 2010 9:50 am

Obama's taking charge. He's now telling BP to provide the White House with daily updates.

(Good to see you posting again, Peachtree Pam. :wave: )
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby Peachtree Pam » Sat May 22, 2010 10:24 am

Thanks, Jeff. It is good to be back among friends who share similar views concerning the horrors that are everywhere - not just within the Gulf!
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby DoYouEverWonder » Sat May 22, 2010 10:40 am

chiggerbit wrote:And if the company (or companies) go bankrupt, then for how long?


Since when are BP and Transocean the only companies who can do this?

The WH can appoint a Task Force made up of other industry experts to oversee shutting down the well.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 2012 Countdown » Sat May 22, 2010 11:35 am

Pam- Thanks for the article, but a few corrections/additions.

1. BP has refused to switch dispersants even after being 'asked' to.
2. RATE OF FLOW is essential in determining a course of action. IT IS THE FIRST STEP. What I am trying to say is it is even in BPs OWN MANUALS! Olberman (MSNBC) exposed that fact on a story about just this subject on yesterday's program.

Everything in that article rings true, I just wanted to add those two additional facts.


I'm also going to repost the video ninakat posted. I hope this gets passed around. MUST SEE, imo.. Garland speaks for us.

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