The Syria Thread 2011 - Present

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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:02 pm

Louise Hulland ‏@MsHepburnley 12m

It begins MT @CharlieKayeCBS: BREAKING. CBS learns Pentagon making initial preparations for a Cruise missile attack on Syrian govt forces”
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Ben D » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:08 pm

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/US-military-reportedly-updates-list-of-potential-targets-in-Syria-as-pressure-mounts-on-Obama-324086

US military updates list of potential targets in Syria as pressure mounts on Obama

By JPOST.COM STAFF, MICHAEL WILNER, REUTERS08/24/2013 01:28

The Pentagon has updated its list of potential targets in Syria should US President Barack Obama decide to intervene militarily in the country, CNN reported on Friday, citing a US Defense Department official.

The report came as pressure is mounting on Obama to take action against the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad in the wake of allegations that he killed more than a 1,000 people in chemical weapons attacks on Wednesday.

The US defense official told CNN that target lists for air strikes in Syria had been updated, and plans for using cruise missiles capable of targeting Syria without entering the country's airspace had also been included.

The official stated that the US had made no decision to act in Syria, but rather the targets were updated "to give the president a current and comprehensive range of choices."

Assad's army continues to move forces and equipment making flexible planning a necessity, the official told CNN.

The updated list includes mobile targets that would disrupt Assad's ability to conduct further chemical weapons attacks.

Obama and his national security team had a four hour Oval Office meeting on military options Friday, focusing on cruise missile targets, but no decisions were taken.

A defense official said Friday that the US Navy will expand its presence in the Mediterranean with a fourth cruise-missile armed warship because of the escalating civil war in Syria.

The USS Mahan had finished its deployment and was due to head back to its home base in Norfolk, Virginia, but the commander of the US Sixth Fleet has decided to keep the ship in the region, the defense official said.

The official, who was not authorized to speak publicly, stressed that the Navy had received no orders to prepare for any military operations regarding Syria.

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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby justdrew » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:33 pm

The official, who was not authorized to speak publicly, stressed that the Navy had received no orders to prepare for any military operations regarding Syria.


get that LEAKER! put him up against the wall. :wallhead:
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby 8bitagent » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:11 pm

slimmouse » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:17 pm wrote:Heres another nice tidbit from James Corbett appearing on Jack Bloods show, Well worth listening to and seriously chewing on.




Edited to add that these are the same rebels that Egypts Mr Morsi was intending to assist in Syria, along with the host of usual Western suspects who have been funding this all along. Not even fukn covertly.


This is such a good point made. I had read that Assad's forces had regained quite a lot of towns and was winning the war on the insurgency. Why would he authorize his military to use chemical weapons, killing 1400+ people right near where UN inspectors were coming in?

I don't doubt these people died, or from some sort of gas, but who? Even if somehow it came from Assad, how we know there isn't a Western controlled cell within the military that could have been used to carry it out.
How do we know some of those al Qaeda linked militants beefed up by Western and Saudi money didnt do it? If ever there was an easy and clear false flag to carry out, it would be this.

Just on the practical side, since 2001: Iraq, Afghanistan, with strikes and drone action in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia as well as US military involvement in Libya. Now Syria? And let's not forget the French invasion of the Ivory Coast two years ago. Or US military in Uganda. Where does it end? With Iran? Naw, even that is small potatoes ultimately
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby KeenInsight » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:32 pm

8bitagent » 23 Aug 2013 20:11 wrote:
slimmouse » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:17 pm wrote:Heres another nice tidbit from James Corbett appearing on Jack Bloods show, Well worth listening to and seriously chewing on.




Edited to add that these are the same rebels that Egypts Mr Morsi was intending to assist in Syria, along with the host of usual Western suspects who have been funding this all along. Not even fukn covertly.


This is such a good point made. I had read that Assad's forces had regained quite a lot of towns and was winning the war on the insurgency. Why would he authorize his military to use chemical weapons, killing 1400+ people right near where UN inspectors were coming in?

I don't doubt these people died, or from some sort of gas, but who? Even if somehow it came from Assad, how we know there isn't a Western controlled cell within the military that could have been used to carry it out.
How do we know some of those al Qaeda linked militants beefed up by Western and Saudi money didnt do it? If ever there was an easy and clear false flag to carry out, it would be this.

Just on the practical side, since 2001: Iraq, Afghanistan, with strikes and drone action in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia as well as US military involvement in Libya. Now Syria? And let's not forget the French invasion of the Ivory Coast two years ago. Or US military in Uganda. Where does it end? With Iran? Naw, even that is small potatoes ultimately


I am surprised you haven't read that information 8bit.

Globalresearch.ca has all the goodies on who is releasing chemical attacks and massacring civilians. You guessed, U.S. Al-Qaeda Backed Proxy Forces. It doesn't matter if we the people suspect the truth - remember hard-core military crazies that love war and the profiteering from it are above the law.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/engineerin ... ia/5345503

“I don’t remember a time when there have been so many national-security issues on the front burner as there are today,” he said.

He calls Syria his top concern. “It’s probably the most important issue in the world today because of where it is currently heading.”

It’s infested with foreign fighters. They’re involved with Al Qaeda-affiliated groups. They’re in greater numbers than in Iraq during “the height of the war there.”

Regional spillover’s likely. It’s happening in Lebanon. Low-level conflict threatens to increase. Jordan’s at risk. So is Israel. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and other Gulf states may get a taste of their own medicine.

According to Executive Intelligence Review’s Lawrence Freeman:

Al Qaeda’s “virtually in control of (Libya), and we’ve created a monster that is out of control except if you recognize that that’s the intention.”



http://www.globalresearch.ca/russia-sug ... ls/5346604

In Al-Zoubi’s opinion, the goal of Wednesday’s “collateral” reports about the alleged chemical attack by government forces was to undermine the work of UN investigators who arrived in Syria after receiving a request from Damascus.

If the UN commission successfully completes its work, investigators will discover that chemical weapons were used in Khan al-Assal and that the Syrian army did not use such arms, the minister stated.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/bush-offic ... on/5333826

Col. Lawrence Wilkerson – the former chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell under President George W. Bush – said yesterday that the Syrian chemical weapons could be a “Israeli false flag operation”.


The Syrian Government does not benefit from attacking its own people, period. And of course, none of this is about apologizing for Assad, but it CLEAR what is going on and forces are at work that are purposely destabilizing the region just as was predicted with Iraq, Libya, and now Syria.

In the end Syria is a play-ground for multiple nations (America, U.K., NATO - ETC. vs Russia, China, and Iran).

Nations that oppose the Petro-Dollar or the World Bank are targets - That is after all what got Muammar Gaddafi killed like a dog with Hillary Clinton gleefully joyful of successful murder. They can wash their hands though of killing him directly, since they hired dogs to do the work for them, even though the U.S. bombed and killed kids.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/since-it-f ... ah/5345239
Since it Failed in Syria, America Now Targets Hezbollah
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:50 am

It's the ultimate head trip the elite know is too confusing for the average person. Virtually ALL of the evil, chaos and money spent by the Western MIC/corporate powers and company in the last decade has been predicated upon "gotta fight al Qaeda, the ultimate post WW2 evil".
Now we see the West (though the USUAL Saudi/ISI/CIA liason back channels) arming/funding/encouraging/supporting/stirring up foreign jihadists into Syria as they were doing in Libya. And shoot, even Hastings reported on the US secretly arming both sides of the Sunni/Shiite chaos in Iraq. Most of the Taliban and Haqqani networks who have attacked US and coalition forces in Afghanistan seem linked to Pakistani ISI, which gets heavy aid from the US.

So al Qaeda bad one day, good the next, oops bad again as it's near Ramadan and there's been "chatter". Notice the VERY convenient timing of the "al Qaeda embassy attack warning" cabled out.
Hell, these stupid braindead right wingers going ape about "Benghazi"...you people are the ones begging the US to start arming those groups one year prior! After praising Ghadafi a year before that!

Awwww....so freaking frustrating all the Chuck Todds, Richard Engles, and Sean Hannities out there, let alone the average trendoid idiot in America doesn't see this game.

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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby Ben D » Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:41 am

More evidence that the US/France/UK are making a serious play to get involved in Syria, lapdog Australia is doing their bit to support the propaganda...
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/rudd-halts-campaign-over-syria-20130824-2shzb.html

Rudd halts campaign over Syria

AAP August 24, 2013 - 5:06PM

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has called a temporary halt to his election campaign for urgent intelligence briefings about the worsening civil war in Syria. He has the full support of Opposition Leader Tony Abbott who dismissed a suggestion on Saturday that Mr Rudd's sudden return to Canberra might be a political stunt.

"No. It's entirely appropriate when a serious international issue is unfolding for the prime minister to seek a briefing," Mr Abbott told reporters in Adelaide.

"Obviously terrible things are happening in that country. "I hope the international community is able to do what it can to try to ensure that the bloodshed ceases and ordinary human rights are once more respected."

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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby parel » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:40 am

Published On: Sat, Aug 24th, 2013 news | By nsnbc
US prepares Kinetic Strikes against Syria


Christof Lehmann (nsnbc) , -On Saturday, the US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey, will present initial preparations for a cruise missile attack on Syria at a White House meeting. US Secretary of Defense, Chuck Hagel, has according to a CBS News report on Friday 23 August, asked Dempsey to present initial preparations.

Hagel implied, that the preparations for the missile strikes are related to the possible chemical weapons use by the Syrian Armed Forces on Wednesday. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff however, has already in July 2013 stated, that the Obama administration is preparing various scenarios for a possible U.S. Military intervention in Syria and is considering whether the USA should use “the brute of the U.S. Military, and kinetic strikes”.

On Wednesday, unsubstantiated reports about a large scale chemical weapons attack were disseminated on Al-Arabiya and Al-Jazeera, killing, according to different sources between dozens, hundreds, and up to 1.188 people.

USS MAHNOn Friday, the U.S.´s Secretary of Defense, Chuck Hagel, suggested that U.S. Naval Forces are moving into position closer to Syria in the case that the Obama administration chooses to take direct military action against Syria. Hagel said, that:

“The Defense Department has a responsibility to provide the President with options for contingencies, and that requires pointing our forces, positioning our assets, to be able to carry out different options – whatever options the President might choose.. .. There may be another (chemical weapons) attack”.

The Reuters news agency quotes an official from the Department of Defense as saying, that the U.S. Navy is expanding its presence in the Mediterranean with a fourth cruise missile ship, the USS Mahan. All four of the Navy´s cruise missile ships are capable of launching long-range, subsonic cruise missiles against targets on land.

The White House meeting today was arranged after reports about an alleged chemical weapons attack in Syria were disseminated via the strongly anti-Syria biased Al-Arabiya and Al-Jazeera TV Channels on Wednesday 21 August.

Simultaneously with the dissemination of the reports about the attack, which according to various sources is alleged to have killed dozens, hundreds, and according to Al-Arabiya 1.188, the “Opposition” began distributing “Handout Images” to the international media and unverified video footage began being disseminated via YouTube and social media.

The reports emerged while the forces of the Syrian Arab Army were carrying out operations against a stronghold of one the brigades of the foreign-backed opposition in the area. The General Command of Syria´s Armed forces and the Syrian government however, have rejected the claims that the Syrian Arab Army should have used chemical weapons. The reports about the alleged attack were disseminated on the same day, when UN inspectors arrived in Syria on invitation of the Syrian government.

The Swedish expert scientist for the United Nations, Ake Sellstrom, who arrived in Damascus on the day of the alleged attack, stated to the TT news agency that:

While he had seen TV footage, the large number of casualties, which is being reported, sounds suspicious. Sellstrom said: “It sounds like something that should be looked into. It will depend on whether any UN member state goes to the secretary general and says we should look at this event. We are in place”.

nsnbc international consulted with members of the Danish Civil Defense who are trained to conduct rescue operations during or after ABC (atomic, biological, chemical) attacks. Both of the experts were presented with the handout images which had been distributed by the opposition. On condition of anonymity, because they could not make official statements on behalf of the Danish Civil Defense Forces, both of the experts unanimously stated that the likelihood that the photos had been taken during or after a real chemical weapons attack was close to zero, if not zero.

One of the two experts went as far as to say, that it is not even a well-staged falsification. Both of the experts pointed out that the medical staff, shown in the images, does not wear gloves, does not wear protective suits, and does not protect their airways. Hospital images prompted one of the experts to expound:

“It is not even likely that this is a real medical team that is alleged to treat chemical weapons victims. Every nurse knows that you have to protect yourself in order not to become the next who will have to be hospitalized. Or maybe the images are real but presented within a false context”.

While the Obama administration and President Obama, at numerous occasions have warned against the USA being drawn into another costly, expensive and difficult war, cruise missile attacks could, as it was the case during the strikes against the Libyan military in 2011, give the foreign-backed opposition a significant strategic advantage while the USA, at least officially, does not have “boots on the ground”.

At least not officially, because the USA has, according to testimony nsnbc international received from an officer with the Special Forces at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina in August 2011, had special forces operating in Syria since 2011. In June 2012 the presence of Special Forces was corroborated when a ranking member of the UK´s Department of Defense stated to the British newspaper The Daily Star, that British and other allied Special Forces were operating in Syria.

A report, published on nsnbc international on 7 July forecast, that the foreign-backed Syrian political and military opposition was planning a renewed, major political and military campaign against Syria in August and September 2013. The campaign in August and September should lead to situations which would apparently justify renewed calls for humanitarian corridors, a no-fly-zone and a military intervention.

Earlier this month, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Dempsey visited Jordan for talks. On the agenda in Jordan was, among other the “Team Jordan”. The DoD informs, that “The team Jordan also includes liaison officers linking them to the services, special operation forces, the U.S. Embassy in Jordan, USAID, Britain, Canada and France. Its primary focus is planning for Syria”.

In the aforementioned report from 7 July, nsnbc international reported, that US Special Forces in Jordan are, according to a Palestinian intelligence source, training “rebels” to carry out joint operations with US troops.

Among others, the rebels are reportedly being trained in highlighting high profile political and military targets and otherwise assist in and cooperate with US military forces against high profile political and military targets in Syria.

The deployment of the fourth cruise missile ship, the USS Mahn, closer to Syria or within striking range is a considerable escalation of the United States military posture and increases the likelihood of US strikes against targets in Syria.

Prior to the news about the White House meeting today, in response to the alleged chemical weapons attack on Wednesday, the Chinese Foreign Ministry stressed the importance of an objective investigation into the alleged attack and requested that the UN Chemical Weapons Inspectors who are currently in Syria on invitation of the Syrian government fully cooperate with the Syrian authorities and maintain an objective stance.

One of the problems with an investigation into the alleged attack is, that the area where the attack is alleged to have happened is being held by opposition forces, who so far have not provided any guarantees for safe passage and the safety of the UN inspectors.

Subsequent to the alleged attack on Wednesday, during a phone call between Russia´s Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov and U.S. Secretary of State, John Kerry, both stressed the importance of an objective investigation into the alleged attack. The deployment of the USS Mahn and implicit threats of a US attack on Syria with cruise missiles significantly increases the risk for an escalation of the war in Syria. US cruise missile strikes against targets in Syria are likely to provoke a swift military response from Hezbollah and Iran, and could draw Russian troops into direct combat operations against US targets.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby DrVolin » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:06 pm

Well, one thing is for sure, there is a lot of USN hardware sitting around doing nothing in particular right now. Nimitz and Truman are in the middle east and nowhere near the end of their deployment, but Vinson, George Washington, Reagan and GHW seem to be ready for a cruise but are just hanging around. Just like late last summer, the USN seems to be keeping its options wide open for the fall.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby parel » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:14 pm

Experts Doubt Syrian Chemical Weapons Claims
Submitted by George Washington on 08/24/2013 02:30 -0400

CBS News reports that the U.S. is finalizing plans for war against Syria - and positioning ships to launch cruise missiles against the Syrian government - based on the claim that the Syrian government used chemical weapons against its people.


The last time the U.S. blamed the Syrian government for a chemical weapons attack, that claim was was debunked.

But is the claim that the Syrian government used chemical weapons against its people true this time?

It's not surprising that Syria's close ally - Russia - is expressing doubt. Agence France-Presse (AFP) notes:

Russia, which has previously said it has proof of chemical weapons use by the rebels, expressed deep scepticism about the opposition's claims.

The foreign ministry said the timing of the allegations as UN inspectors began their work "makes us think that we are once again dealing with a premeditated provocation."
But Russia isn't the only doubter.

AFP reports:

"At the moment, I am not totally convinced because the people that are helping them are without any protective clothing and without any respirators," said Paula Vanninen, director of Verifin, the Finnish Institute for Verification of the Chemical Weapons Convention.

"In a real case, they would also be contaminated and would also be having symptoms."

John Hart, head of the Chemical and Biological Security Project at Stockholm International Peace Research Institute said he had not seen the telltale evidence in the eyes of the victims that would be compelling evidence of chemical weapons use.

"Of the videos that I've seen for the last few hours, none of them show pinpoint pupils... this would indicate exposure to organophosphorus nerve agents," he said.

Gwyn Winfield, editor of CBRNe World magazine, which specialises in chemical weapons issues, said the evidence did not suggest that the chemicals used were of the weapons-grade that the Syrian army possesses in its stockpiles.

"We're not seeing reports that doctors and nurses... are becoming fatalities, so that would suggest that the toxicity of it isn't what we would consider military sarin. It may well be that it is a lower-grade," Winfield told AFP.
Haaretz reports:

Western experts on chemical warfare who have examined at least part of the footage are skeptical that weapons-grade chemical substances were used, although they all emphasize that serious conclusions cannot be reached without thorough on-site examination.

Dan Kaszeta, a former officer of the U.S. Army's Chemical Corps and a leading private consultant, pointed out a number of details absent from the footage so far: "None of the people treating the casualties or photographing them are wearing any sort of chemical-warfare protective gear," he says, "and despite that, none of them seem to be harmed." This would seem to rule out most types of military-grade chemical weapons, including the vast majority of nerve gases, since these substances would not evaporate immediately, especially if they were used in sufficient quantities to kill hundreds of people, but rather leave a level of contamination on clothes and bodies which would harm anyone coming in unprotected contact with them in the hours after an attack. In addition, he says that "there are none of the other signs you would expect to see in the aftermath of a chemical attack, such as intermediate levels of casualties, severe visual problems, vomiting and loss of bowel control."

Steve Johnson, a leading researcher on the effects of hazardous material exposure at England's Cranfield University who has worked with Britain's Ministry of Defense on chemical warfare issues, agrees that "from the details we have seen so far, a large number of casualties over a wide area would mean quite a pervasive dispersal. With that level of chemical agent, you would expect to see a lot of contamination on the casualties coming in, and it would affect those treating them who are not properly protected. We are not seeing that here."

Additional questions also remain unanswered, especially regarding the timing of the attack, being that it occurred on the exact same day that a team of UN inspectors was in Damascus to investigate earlier claims of chemical weapons use. It is also unclear what tactical goal the Syrian army would have been trying to achieve, when over the last few weeks it has managed to push back the rebels who were encroaching on central areas of the capital. But if this was not a chemical weapons attack, what then caused the deaths of so many people without any external signs of trauma?

***

The Syrian rebels (and perhaps other players in the region) have a clear interest in presenting this as the largest chemical attack by the army loyal to Syrian President Bashar Assad to date, even if the cause was otherwise, especially while the UN inspectors are in the country. It is also in their interest to do so whilst U.S. President Barack Obama remains reluctant to commit any military support to the rebels, when only the crossing of a "red line" could convince him to change his policy.

The rebels and the doctors on the scene may indeed believe that chemical weapons were used, since they fear such an attack, but they may not have the necessary knowledge and means to make such a diagnosis. The European Union demanded Wednesday that the UN inspectors be granted access to the new sites of alleged chemical attacks, but since this is not within the team's mandate, it is unlikely that the Syrian government will do so.
Stephen Johnson, an expert in weapons and chemical explosives at Cranfield Forensic Institute, said that the video footage looked suspect:

There are, within some of the videos, examples which seem a little hyper-real, and almost as if they’ve been set up. Which is not to say that they are fake but it does cause some concern. Some of the people with foaming, the foam seems to be too white, too pure, and not consistent with the sort of internal injury you might expect to see, which you’d expect to be bloodier or yellower.
Chemical and biological weapons researcher Jean Pascal Zanders said that the footage appears to show victims of asphyxiation, which is not consistent with the use of mustard gas or the nerve agents VX or sarin:

I’m deliberately not using the term chemical weapons here,” he said, adding that the use of “industrial toxicants” was a more likely explanation.
Michael Rivero asks:

1. Why would Syria's Assad invite United Nations chemical weapons inspectors to Syria, then launch a chemical weapons attack against women and children on the very day they arrive, just miles from where they are staying?

2. If Assad were going to use chemical weapons, wouldn't he use them against the hired mercenary army trying to oust him? What does he gain attacking women and children? Nothing! The gain is all on the side of the US Government desperate to get the war agenda going again.

As I type these words, US trained and equipped forces are already across the border into Syria, and US naval forces are sailing into position to launch a massive cruise missile attack into Syria that will surely kill more Syrians than were claimed to have died in the chemical attack.
Last time there was a chemical weapon attack in Syria, Bush administration office Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson said that he thought Israel might have given chemical weapons to the Syrian rebels to frame the government.

British MP George Galloway just floated the same theory in regards to the new chemical weapon attack.

Of course, we don't know who carried out the attack, or what weapon was used.

But given the well-documented fact that the U.S. has been planning regime change in Syria for 20 years straight - and planned to use false ploys for 50 years - it is worth being skeptical until all of the evidence is in.

Indeed, many are asking whether this is Iraq War 2.0. For example, the Independent writes:

Pictures showing that the Syrian army used chemical weapons against rebel-held Eastern Ghouta just east of Damascus are ... likely to be viewed sceptically because the claims so much resemble those made about Saddam Hussein’s possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) before the US and British invasion of Iraq in 2003.

***

Like the Iraqi opposition to Saddam, who provided most of the evidence of WMDs, the Syrian opposition has every incentive to show the Syrian government deploying chemical weapons in order to trigger foreign intervention.

***

But the obvious fact that for the Syrian government to use chemical weapons would be much against their own interests does not prove it did not happen. Governments and armies do stupid things. But it is difficult to imagine any compelling reason why they should do so since they have plenty of other means of killing people in Eastern Ghouta, such as heavy artillery or small arms, which they regularly use.

***

The evidence so far for the use of chemical weapons by the Syrian army is second-hand and comes from a biased source.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby slimmouse » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:43 pm

Quck summary of the current situation,

Rudd, Cameron, Hague, Obama, you name em theyre there. All lining up to back up a lie with evidence which they have already informed us that they and their proxies had themselves previously planned to concoct.

Whilst I admire their esoterically required acknowledgement of their crimes, I really wonder if these guys are truly representing humanity, since they clearly arent making the bigger decisions - such as blowing Syria into perpetual hell for the next umpteem years, or worse.

The answer is fucking obvious, Its actually so in yer face, that its no longer funny. It's also why I need to look beyond RI sometimes for some serious analysis. You see, it strikes me as pretty clear that all of these pseudo debates about politics and religion and all that jazz are clearly and ultimately artificial distractions.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby parel » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:28 pm

US considers air war in Kosovo as precedent for Syria strikes

Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:59PM

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In an effort to bypass the United Nations, national security aides to President Barack Obama are looking at the war in Kosovo in the late 1990s as a possible blueprint for military action against Syria.


Faced with the possibility of a Russian veto at the UN Security Council, President Obama is considering whether to order military strikes against Syria without a UN mandate, according to The New York Times.

In 1999, former president Bill Clinton used the endorsement of NATO and the pretext of protecting a vulnerable population to justify 78 days of airstrikes against Kosovo without seeking approval from the UN.

Obama indicated on Friday that doing so in Syria would require a robust international coalition.

“If the US goes in and attacks another country without a UN mandate and without clear evidence that can be presented, then there are questions in terms of whether international law supports it, do we have the coalition to make it work?” Obama said in an interview with CNN.

In ongoing White House meetings, President Obama and senior officials from the Pentagon and the State Department are discussing a range of options, including airstrikes, for Syria after allegations emerged that the Syrian government was behind a recent chemical attack in the Damascus suburbs.

The Syrian government and the army categorically denied any role in Wednesday’s alleged chemical attack.

A senior administration official told the Times on condition of anonymity that the Kosovo precedent was one of many options being discussed in White House meetings on Syria.

“It’s a step too far to say we’re drawing up legal justifications for an action, given that the president hasn’t made a decision,” said the official. “But Kosovo, of course, is a precedent of something that is perhaps similar.”

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Friday that Obama had asked the Pentagon to prepare military options for Syria and that naval forces were being positioned closer to Syria in anticipation of a possible order by the president.

Meanwhile, in a statement released on Friday, Russian Foreign Ministry said evidence was mounting that the chemical attack was "clearly provocative in nature" and that footage posted online seeking to incriminate the Syrian government had been posted before the chemical attack actually took place.

It also accused the insurgents of "directly impeding an objective investigation" of the incident.

UN Under-Secretary-General Angela Kane arrived in Damascus on Saturday for talks aimed at establishing an investigation into Wednesday’s attack.
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby solace » Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:02 pm

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/08/23/un_blocking_its_own_chemical_weapons_investigation_into_syria
U.N. Slowing Its Own Chemical Weapons Investigation In Syria


The world's governments are demanding that Syria immediately let United Nations inspectors onto the scene of alleged chemical attacks that killed as many as 1,800. But even if Bashar al-Assad's regime gave the inspectors permission to visit the disputed battlefields right now, they still couldn't leave. The U.N. is blocking its own inspectors, at least for the moment.

Kevin Kennedy, a retired U.S. Marine colonel who heads the U.N. Department of Safety and Security, told a small group of reporters at U.N. headquarters on Friday that he hasn't given the inspection team a green light to visit the site of the supposed attacks. His office is still carrying out a security assessment to see if it is safe enough to go.

"It's an active war zone in Damascus," said Kennedy, who has gained extensive experience managing U.N. humanitarian operations in the world's deadliest trouble spots over the past 20 years. "I was there a few months ago: you hear every day impacts, shells, there might be 10 in a day, you might hear 80 in a day. You can see airstrikes, you can see artillery. You get shot at, I was only there for 3 and ½ days as a visitor and my car was shot, we were shot at twice," including once by an unidentified sniper.

Britain and France issued strong statements in support of allowing the U.N. investigators to visit the Damascus suburb where locals say hundreds, and possibly thousands, were killed with nerve gas. "We do believe that this is a chemical attack by the Assad regime on a large scale," British Foreign Secretary William Hague said during an interview on Friday. Even the Assad regime's biggest ally, Russia, is now calling on "the Syrian government to cooperate with the U.N. chemical experts," as Moscow's Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

But Kennedy said it's not quite that simple. "There's places in Syria we've not gone to for months simply because it's just not safe to go and we can't mitigate the risk," he said.

On Thursday night, U.N. chief Ban Ki-Moon pleaded with the Syrian government to "extend its full cooperation so that the mission can swiftly investigate this most recent incident."

"This is a grave challenge to the entire international community," he added. "I can think of no good reason what any party-either government or opposition forces-would decline this opportunity to get to the truth of the matter."

Meanwhile, his inspectors wait -- as the world tries to figure out why either side in Syria's awful civil war would've launched a chemical attack with U.N. inspectors so close by. (Russia is hinting at rebel responsibility for the attack, while the U.S. and its allies are blaming Assad's forces.) "We're still trying to work out why the regime chose to do it on this scale with the U.N. in spitting distance, but there are a couple of working theories," an American intelligence official told The Cable. "One is that this was planned well in advance and no one called it off at the last minute. Another is that most of the regime military assets are off fighting in the north of the country, so they had to resort to using chemical weapons as a force multiplier" -- a way to fight off large numbers of rebels with a comparative handful of troops.

In recent weeks, some military analysts have noted the opposition gaining strength in and around the Damascus suburbs. Perhaps Assad noted it as well, the thinking goes, and decided to try to put an end to it.

The U.N. chemical weapons team, headed by Swedish scientist Ake Sellstrom, arrived in Damascus on Sunday to begin a two-week investigation into more than a dozen allegations of chemical weapons use. Sellstrom, who has received assurances from the Syrian government that he can visit three of those sites, has appealed to the Assad regime to let his team visit a cluster of towns in the suburbs of Damascus to test claims by opposition figures that more than 1,000 civilians were killed in a chemical weapons attack by the Syrian government. Syrian officials have dismissed the claims as "fabricated," noting that conducted a chemical weapons strike while U.N. weapons inspectors were in the county would defy logic.

But outside observers, reviewing YouTube videos of the attacks and the accounts of the doctors who treated the victims, are becoming increasingly convinced that chemical weapons were used. "All of this evidence does suggest some kind of chemical agent," Charles Duelfer, the former chief weapons inspector for the United States, told Al Jazeera America on Thursday night. "These are not the effect of conventional munitions. There are no external wounds. There are all the signature symptoms of nerve damage."

Now it's up to the U.N. inspectors to prove it. In a sign that Sellstrom has yet to prevail upon the Syrian government to visit the sites, Ban dispatched his top disarmament chief, Angela Kane, to Damascus to make the case for access. In the meantime, Reuters reporters, Assad opponents have managed to "smuggle tissue samples to U.N. inspectors from victims of Wednesday's reported mass poisoning."

Kennedy said his department "will do a security risk assessment based on what we know, what we can see....We will make a recommendation whether, and this goes for any mission, not so much the Syrian mission, if it is a go or a no go." Asked if it were possible the inspectors would not get a green light, he said "we'll see what the security assessment says about that when it comes out. It's a moveable feast."
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby 8bitagent » Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:11 pm

In the WTF category

Hezbollah and Al Qaeda Fighters Edging Closer to Full Scale Confrontation
May 10, 2015


http://abcnews.go.com/International/hez ... d=19144119

Please tell me it's still August 2013? Why does that say May 10th 2015? Anyways, the story here is that
"al qaeda" is planning some sort of full on war against Hezbollah and Iran/Syria in the wake of twin bombings
in Tripoli recently http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/ ... 3Y20130824
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Re: US troops surround Syria on the eve of invasion?

Postby cptmarginal » Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:46 am

Meanwhile, his inspectors wait -- as the world tries to figure out why either side in Syria's awful civil war would've launched a chemical attack with U.N. inspectors so close by. (Russia is hinting at rebel responsibility for the attack, while the U.S. and its allies are blaming Assad's forces.) "We're still trying to work out why the regime chose to do it on this scale with the U.N. in spitting distance, but there are a couple of working theories," an American intelligence official told The Cable.


The Assad-aligned forces decided to just give up on the whole ongoing bloody control for territory that they've been so actively involved in, and now are just inviting NATO or the American military in. Yeah, that's the ticket! What other reason could there be for utilizing chemical weapons in such a limited and non-attributed manner? It's not like one attack will end the whole complex war of attrition; the Assad forces denying responsibility for the attack means that it's probably not even effective as a scare tactic. So they must be committing strategic suicide on the international stage; it all makes perfect sense!

Sarcasm aside, I am well aware of my own ignorance regarding much of what is happening in Syria or even regarding the history of the region. But we're all in that boat to one extent or another. Looking at the news articles published on this conflict over the past couple of years, there would seem to be two sides: Assad and the rebels. Then, within the rebels, there emerged the secular and fundamentalist camps. We know that intelligence agencies are involved, including those based in Israel, Turkey, Jordan, & the United States - but there's really no way to know what kind of background machinations any of these varied players are engaging in. They seem to remain invisible for all intents and purposes, at least as far as the mainstream news reportage goes. It's acknowledged that weapons, training, and logistics are being provided (and it's only a short step from there to an eerily familiar repeat of the 1980s Afghan Arabs debacle) but you rarely if ever hear about specific involvement in battles or massacres or black market deals. I guess that's the point, though.

Wish I could find a link to this article from after the NATO intervention in Libya, where a mainstream news outlet looked back on the aftermath of relying on anonymous "activist" sources for claims about atrocities. The conclusion was that it constituted shoddy and unacceptable journalism. I'd like to find that link, not for confirmation of how irresponsible and horrible news outlets were regarding that conflict, but rather to check and see what those same people are publishing about Syria now. Because ever since this war started it's been one article and broadcast after another starting with "activists say"
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