The REAL Story of 9/11 That Most Truthers Miss

[8bitagent]

8bitagent wrote:

Because you say the towers exploded and there were no hijackers, how does that point to anyone or country in particular or show how it was done?


Nomo: Well, it doesn't.

Really? If the buildings were deliberately brought down by explosives, and if there were no hijackers on any of those 4 planes, this would provide you with NO CLUES at all concerning the perpetrators?

I guess denial is NOT just a river in Egypt...

Saying theres no hijackers is saying=the FAA recordings and cell calls were 1) fake
2) the evidence at the pentagon and shanksville, as well as towers=fake
3) the careful means rogue intelligence secretly coddled the hijackers
was for naught, as hey who needs hijackers!

[slimmouse]

8bitagent wrote:

Because you say the towers exploded and there were no hijackers, how does that point to anyone or country in particular or show how it was done?


Nomo: Well, it doesn't.

Really? If the buildings were deliberately brought down by explosives, and if there were no hijackers on any of those 4 planes, this would provide you with NO CLUES at all concerning the perpetrators?

I guess denial is NOT just a river in Egypt...

Saying theres no hijackers is saying=the FAA recordings and cell calls were 1) fake
2) the evidence at the pentagon and shanksville, as well as towers=fake
3) the careful means rogue intelligence secretly coddled the hijackers
was for naught, as hey who needs hijackers!

I have to say, that I respect both your own, and Jeffs ( and others) angle on this, I really do.

But what I saw with my own eyes still dont make sense to me WRT the official explanation of how the (3) towers came down, or what happened at the pentagon, not to mention flight 93.

Doesnt all the debunking of the physical evidence even stir the slightest bit of suspicion amongst the rigorous ?

Such as how convenient it was that those 3 towers came down due to the impact of 2 planes ?

Or that most of flight 93 fell down an abandoned mineshaft ?

et cetera et cetera.

Cos if it dont, that really is worrying !

Hell, if you can readily accept that kinda stuff, whatever next ? you might try and tell me next that it was holograms that hit the towers !

[8bitagent]

I have to say, that I respect both your own, and Jeffs ( and others) angle on this, I really do.

But what I saw with my own eyes still dont make sense to me WRT the official explanation of how the (3) towers came down, or what happened at the pentagon, not to mention flight 93.

Doesnt all the debunking of the physical evidence even stir the slightest bit of suspicion amongst the rigorous ?

Such as how convenient it was that those 3 towers came down due to the impact of 2 planes ?

Or that most of flight 93 fell down an abandoned mineshaft ?

et cetera et cetera.

Cos if it dont, that really is worrying !

Hell, if you can readily accept that kinda stuff, whatever next ? you might try and tell me next that it was holograms that hit the towers !

The black magicians(and in this sense, I mean that figuratively)
behind 9/11 played it out as a magic trick:
The Pledge, The Turn, The Prestiege.

Now, we *know* the towers are a magic trick. BUT...
if we focus ALL our time on that, as most truthers/debunkers do, we miss the provable. Did JFK ever get exposed and reopened with prosecutions? No, all the focus was on the "back and to the left" over the years, "grassy knoll", etc.

So this is why I wont speculate on how the "Prestiege" was done.

I CAN tell you: ISI officials involved in the op were assured as far back as 1999 that "those towers were coming down". So *someone* told em
they would fall no matter what

Osama ALSO was shocked the towers fell, as evidenced in the "confession tape"(AKA late Sept 2001 sting op by saudi intel)

If you think of 9/11 in terms of a sex magick ritual, the phallack shaft of 11 hit the 11 shaped towers...and the phallac shaft of 77 hit the 77 foot Pentagon.

Now, in this instance, while we KNOW something *aint quite right* with this "planes befell the towers" meme...we see the planes seer into the towers, the top halves collapse...and we dont question it.

Now hey, I dont believe in the space beam theory, but...clearly...something that cant be explained away as "thermate and controlled demolition" had to have been at play.

How else are most of the leading scientists believing it was the planes?

Because...it was done in a way to make it physically seen, upon inspection...as if nothing fishy befell the towers.

Heres something funny about Pentagon: Its not WHAT hit it(which I do believe was 77)...but...WHERE..and HOW.

Flight 93? I see it as a blow against the nwo by brave passengers.
I see it as possibly blown up by a bomb on board
But I also find it odd it slams down an abandoned mineshaft.

Im tempted to throw the "Fortean" card into 9/11, Princess Di, etc
to fill in the gaps where science and rational explanation cant...but thats for another day.

[slow_dazzle]

It is not necessary for us to focus exclusively on HOW the heist was pulled off. Admittedly, there might be some mileage in continuing to analyse what MIGHT have happened that day in case someone, somewhere finds evidence that would convince the majority of people. Don't waste too much brain power on it though. 9/11 HAPPENED and the OCT is unbelievable. Isn't that sufficient evidence to move on and ask WHY 9/11 happened?

9/11 had a RATIONALE and a PURPOSE both of which are now shaping the direction we are headed in. Unless we really analyse WHAT 9/11 MEANS in terms of what it has set off we won't get very far imho. As evidence for that contention I would cite the failure of the Dems to impeach, the increase in military spending, the "surge" (with its possible subliminal sexual metaphor) as events that have REASONS. Doesn't it strike people as somehow bizarre that the Dems have signally failed to do ANYTHING of substance?

Not many people are interested as far as I can see. Most researchers seem to be continuing the debate on thermate, blah blah blah. Wait until the round ups start.

We are headed down the road Elie Wiesel described in "Night". It is time to devote most of our energies to finding out WHERE we are headed and the MEANS being used to implement the totalitarian state (or world). These are issues we can engage with even though we might not win at the end of the day. At least there is a semi-comatose political system we can TRY to engage with and we can alert people to WHAT is going on NOW. We cannot engage with the physical evidence because it does not exist. It's gone. Vanished. Nowhere in sight.

Don't look over here...only boring stuff about tenuous links to drug trafficking, overlapping interests of apparently disparate groups such as neocons, Arabian Fundamentalists and the Muslim Brotherhood, no bid contracts and possible peaking of energy reserves over here...look over there...the conspiracy equivalent of the missing blonde child is over there in the form of a circular debate on thermate...now isn't that much more attractive? Of course it is...keep looking at the sexy stuff.

I agree that there is merit in analysing some of the ritualistic aspects that MIGHT interface with 9/11. Whilst I'm sceptical there are recurring themes that aren't easy to dismiss so we should spend time looking at those aspects of 9/11 too. Dismissing them without analysis is not rigourous thinking.

On this theme of ritual/occult aspects of 9/11 if I wanted to ensure they were rubbished from the start I would promote a neo-Christian/Libertarian/Gun rights/regular guy to trumpet about the NWO and the Illuminati... Even better if that same approach included a focus on the blind alley of CD through the same vehicle for disinformation. A good way to turn many people off the very idea that 9/11 was an inside job, one that provided the platform for totalitarianism.

A final point, one I've been wanting to get off my chest for ages. The use of the midnight oil lamp icon on one of the "serious" (ahem") troof sites makes me cringe. It is just so cheesy and utterly naff. No wonder we get laughed at.

[8bitagent]

Whoahhh.
Check out this never before seen 9/11 footage shot by some young college aged dudes on the streets of NYC on that awful day.

Ok, this is pretty creepy, and if this aint the most unsettling of 9/11 syncronicites. Go to the 9:15 minute mark here and just watch...

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 2&hl=en-GB

[8bitagent]

@AliceTheKurious:

I would now agree, after looking through your mainstream news reports linked, that there indeed may be prima facie evidence of doubles going on...the syncronicities of it being a coincidence is too odd. In fact,
this seems to be almost exactly how Oswald was intentionally breadcrumbed out.

Indeed, as if the CIA wanted to go out of there way to have Ziad proven to be in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

However, I still see no evidence that the 19 hijackers were not on the planes. Again, this would mean the powers that be would go out of their way to plant evidence at the crash scenes, fake calls, fake videos, etc.

[8bitagent]

It is not necessary for us to focus exclusively on HOW the heist was pulled off. Admittedly, there might be some mileage in continuing to analyse what MIGHT have happened that day in case someone, somewhere finds evidence that would convince the majority of people. Don't waste too much brain power on it though. 9/11 HAPPENED and the OCT is unbelievable. Isn't that sufficient evidence to move on and ask WHY 9/11 happened?

It's funny, my transformation.

9/11/2001-summer 2004 I was supporting the war. Became a Michael Moore type "man the government is messed up, Iraq is horrible...but Afghanistan was justified" liberal.

By early 2005 I had resumed the para politic research and awareness I sadly had not been privvy too since 2000. Hence, how poweful 9/11 was. It served to Etch a Sketch erase me from seeing what was going on.

But by summer 2005 I had become a "Bush and Cheney did it!" MIHOPer all the way, parroting the official truther meme of dubious "facts" and talking points.

Summer 2006 I went to the big 9/11 conference in LA, and was amazed how most the 9/11 truth people seemed like your average person.

But by late 2006 I started to have a rethink....was 9/11, with all its sickening implications and results, which killed tens of thousands of Afghanis and Iraqis and raped America of a trillion dollars...was it really all about war, oil and police states? Was it really by the US government?

Thats when I started thinking back to the research I had done from the words of Nafeez Ahmed, Peter Dale Scott, etc. The proxy networks leftover from the BCCI days. I started wondering if there was something to the dates these attacks kept occuring on.

So as people had done in the following days of the tragedy, I wondered allowed...what was the true meaning of 9/11? And are all these synconicities just random disconnected minutia?
11, 77, 93 and 175 straight out of the book of the law, Bush reading my pet goat upside down, shutted to Offut AFB after "Angel Is Next" frightens the pants off Bush? I began to see "11", the formation of America, and 2012 as ever the rosetta key as was the true origins of Atta, KSM and the hijackers. Could the Twin Towers, who were envisioned by David Rockefeller and Bin Laden Group aplumb have been set up from the start...as perhaps Bush and Osama, groomed and hand picked to play the puppets on opposite ends?

The Democrats...why I thought they were the guys in white hats, I have no idea. While I dont go with the "Kerry=evil" meme(I think hes an ok guy), I can see how the Dems are used to in effect be the complacent court jesters(Colbert comes to mind)
Funny, in 20th century america before the kissinger/nixon crew took over,
it was Democrats who were the war hawks, like LBJ

For right now, were not in anything near the 1984/totalitarian world *just yet* at least in North America. China? Oh yeah. But not yet in America.

I personally fear a tripply whammy economic collapse+Bush assassination+new 9/11. As we head toward the elite's obsession with 2012, I do fear what could be in store.

hehe, were you alluding to Alex Jones? I have to admit, it was Alex Jones and David Icke that got me full swing back into parapolitic research. I eagerly await Jone's "End Game" film, but yeah...he has his own definatel close minded meme and shaded view.

[AlicetheKurious]

8bitagent, I'm very interested in what you say about the symbolic and occult significance of 9-11, and I think it's a very important clue regarding the mentality of those responsible. But personally, I'm far more comfortable TALKING ABOUT the physical evidence and the logical/factual inconsistencies that "debunk" the Official Conspiracy Theory.

Believe me, I get far fewer rolled and/or glazed eyes at cocktail parties if I talk about controlled demolition than if I start about the twin towers representing the Masonic twin pillars Boaz and Joachim, or whatever they're called.

It's not a zero-sum game, you know. We all know there's an elephant in the living-room, but depending on where we stand, we can only perceive certain parts of it.

Even if some "truthers" declare that lizards were behind it, well, it's up to them to prove their point, and I'm only responsible for defending my own claims. Guilt by association is just a cheap trick to bully people into shutting up, and I for one am not intimidated by bullies. If you are, then that's your choice, but you should allow others to make their own choices.

I still see no evidence that the 19 hijackers were not on the planes.

The old "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" thing again.

The question should be: have you seen any credible evidence that they were?

[hanshan]

...



was always partial to this analysis:

"Does the WTC attack feel like a movie? ... Well of course it does! It has been specifically written as a movie script... Having studied for years how Americans react in movie theaters, the game planners have decided we are now ready for movie spectaculars in real life. You are witnessing a cathartic and intense psychological operation. It is designed to alter your perceptions and hence your politics. It's a classic PsyOp. It's a made-for-TV movie with all the cliché blockbuster elements. It has mayhem, evil warlords and subtle hints of a military coup. It has terrorists who wrestle for control of Flight 93 with Die Hard have-a-go Bruce Willis clones."

Wag the WTC - The Blockbuster


By now the amount of independent research and information that points to 9-11 as a charade played out on the stage of big media news to dramatically influence public opinion is staggering. There are the seismographic recordings which indicate that 2 larger explosions occurred before the final collapse of the towers. There are the pools of molten steel observed at sub-basement levels at Ground Zero which explain the efficient collapse of the towers: the structural beams had been melted at temperatures many times higher than what burning jet-fuel could produce. The collapse of the towers was in fact typical of a controlled demolition rather than a chaotic disaster.

Then there is the interesting aspect of major media collaboration. The American mass media are owned by a handful of military-industrial and infotainment corporations, who are no strangers to the oil company that runs things. What makes 9-11 such a brilliant media art event is the spectacular power of the images that were beamed around the world that day, and the profound effect they had on the collective psyche. Anyone who has seen Johan Grimonperez' DIALhistory video immediately recognizes the photogenic quality of airplane hijackings, which was brought to a stunning climax with the WTC attack. What was hijacked that day was terrorism itself: this is terrorism practiced on our collective imagination by the American government and the big media.

It can be hard to make the leap out of consensual reality into the paranoid universe of meaning and artifice that such "conspirative" theatre brings. The movement of consciousness required to bring one's thinking around from the commonly accepted to the spectacular is intense and disturbing. To understand a media artwork like 9-11 as the massive piece of theatrical manipulation it is, one needs to accept that the most important art of our time is happening 'outside the frame' - outside of art institutions and, better yet, without any label identifying an artwork. In the theatre of the real, where we live, the most ambitious art of our time is taking place, and its delicate subject is our perceptions. Whatever happens next - even if it leads to impeachment and scapegoating - the show will go on, and most Americans will be watching it on CNN.

To see 9-11 as an isolated event would be to misunderstand both the nature of the current information war and the process by which art develops. For every outstanding work of art there are dozens or hundreds of precedents, ranging from the well-known (e.g. the 1933 Reichstag fire) to the unnoticed. At certain points the available know-how is pushed to new limits to serve a particular intention. The intention in this case was articulated by a Washington think tank a year before, calling for "a catastrophic and catalyzing event... like a new Pearl Harbor". The World Trade Center - an icon of globalization and American prosperity, had stood like two fingers to the rest of the world. It was the perfect target - could a Hollywood villain have been so fiendish as to forever alter the geography of Manhattan, leaving a permanent scar, a grain of sand in the oyster?

The composer Karlheinz Stockhausen was the first to call 9-11 an artwork just days after the event, although in the ensuing public outrage he quickly attempted to retract his comments. Widespread recognition of 9-11 as a media art masterpiece is yet to come, and would run counter to the passivity engendered by the infotainment media. On the internet there is of course a lively exchange of information, and all one needs to do to begin tapping it is type a few words into a search engine. However compared with the massively effective dissemination of propaganda as top-priority news, all the information available on the web is just a drop in the bucket.

http://www.year01.com/forum/issue12/moritz.html


The use of doubles was a masterful stroke; not only does it
invoke The Other, but also evokes a Golem-like ambiance.

Although I have to wonder - who was flying the planes?
At some point they were likely on auto-pilot to pre-set destinations
but until that time - ?

[nomo]

Whoahhh.
Check out this never before seen 9/11 footage shot by some young college aged dudes on the streets of NYC on that awful day.

Ok, this is pretty creepy, and if this aint the most unsettling of 9/11 syncronicites. Go to the 9:15 minute mark here and just watch...

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 2&hl=en-GB

I take it they added the slo-mo for added effect? Not that it's at all unusual to see those trucks in Manhattan at any given time.

But it's truly captivating video, nonetheless. The jumpers (so many!) and the guy killed by a chunk of the airplane, terrifying stuff.

There must be lots more of this kind of amateur footage out there.

[8bitagent]

8bitagent, I'm very interested in what you say about the symbolic and occult significance of 9-11, and I think it's a very important clue regarding the mentality of those responsible. But personally, I'm far more comfortable TALKING ABOUT the physical evidence and the logical/factual inconsistencies that "debunk" the Official Conspiracy Theory.

Believe me, I get far fewer rolled and/or glazed eyes at cocktail parties if I talk about controlled demolition than if I start about the twin towers representing the Masonic twin pillars Boaz and Joachim, or whatever they're called.

It's not a zero-sum game, you know. We all know there's an elephant in the living-room, but depending on where we stand, we can only perceive certain parts of it.

Even if some "truthers" declare that lizards were behind it, well, it's up to them to prove their point, and I'm only responsible for defending my own claims. Guilt by association is just a cheap trick to bully people into shutting up, and I for one am not intimidated by bullies. If you are, then that's your choice, but you should allow others to make their own choices.

The old "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" thing again.

As Ive said, theres definately something rotten in Denmark in regards to the towers/WTC7, as well as the final flight path of AA77.

You do have a point: IF all the focus was on the boring detective work of the hijackers, people woulda fell asleep and said "I think I'll stick with the Osama story". So yes, I do think regardless if the WTC was an unintended consequence or part of the plan to fall...its a good way to get people to "wake up".

But what I see happening is countless people merely repeating what they hear, talking points of "molten steel', "melting points", "free fall", "no skyscraper in history has fallen before", etc. It feels like the argument is shaped, because this is exactly where the debunkers, government apologists and media spinmeisters keep the argument framed.

Truthers wanted the tower argument front and center, and now it seems to represent the whole story. "See, the towers were demolished, therefore Osama did 9/11".

As I said in my magic analogy of the pledge-turn-prestiege analogy, I wont say I know what caused the towers to fall...other that I know there was a guarantee factor that they would.

Now then, I have seen the 2004 released footage of the alleged blue shirt wearing hijackers(a few of the 19) raising their arms, being scanned, etc
This to me proves the weapons were preplanted, as this article says:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 53,00.html
with guns and bombs on board:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080840/

So Im just asking for your take on the Moussaoui trial evidence:

Was the passports, IDs, personal items of the hijackers, passengers, etc all planted at ground zero, pentagon and the hole in Shanksville?

And was the airphone/cell calls faked?

Because Im not sure what youre saying happened.

The planes were real, with no hijackers, but then they got remoted to the towers?

Or the planes never existed? Which would be wrong as Family Guy creator Seth Mcfarlane had tickets to be on board.

[8bitagent]

...



was always partial to this analysis:

"Does the WTC attack feel like a movie? ... Well of course it does! It has been specifically written as a movie script... Having studied for years how Americans react in movie theaters, the game planners have decided we are now ready for movie spectaculars in real life. You are witnessing a cathartic and intense psychological operation. It is designed to alter your perceptions and hence your politics. It's a classic PsyOp. It's a made-for-TV movie with all the cliché blockbuster elements. It has mayhem, evil warlords and subtle hints of a military coup. It has terrorists who wrestle for control of Flight 93 with Die Hard have-a-go Bruce Willis clones."

http://www.year01.com/forum/issue12/moritz.html


The use of doubles was a masterful stroke; not only does it
invoke The Other, but also evokes a Golem-like ambiance.

Although I have to wonder - who was flying the planes?
At some point they were likely on auto-pilot to pre-set destinations
but until that time - ?

1. Brilliant quote.

When you sit back, you do have to take in the majesty and dark beauty of 9/11. As Osama alludes to in the 2001 video, it was almost too perfect.
too easy.

It was tailor made for the Bruckheimer weary crowd.

People speculate about why didnt the hijackers hit power plants or other nonsense. Well, because 9/11 had to be big, and live on tv.

The elite love mass trauma mind control. JFK was one of em, even tho the Zapruder film wasnt shown for years, it didnt have to be. A solem "the president of the united states, is dead" was all it took coupled with headlines.

But by fall 2001, no..the public NEEDED Michael Bay.

We needed to be jarred by big explosions, fear(OMG, could there be more airliners hijacked?), an already made for tv bad guy, the story of heroes, etc.

I think this is proof that 9/11 was a well orchestrated setup.
And I dont just mean by rogue elements of the US gov, because the psyop was global.

My theory is that the hijackers got on the planes, did as they were told: used guns and knives as they were brainwashed. commandeered the planes. Then as they were trained, put the planes on auto pilot course to the corresponding beacons placed within Fuji bank and Marsh and Mclenanan and the Pentagon Navy office of accounting.

Flight 93 never made it to DC because either 1) it was planned to be the bruce willis as you said, story of heroes.
or 2) it was the first blow against the new world order's plans by genuine heroes.

Either way, 9/11=clear nwo psyop.

[8bitagent]

Whoahhh.
Check out this never before seen 9/11 footage shot by some young college aged dudes on the streets of NYC on that awful day.

Ok, this is pretty creepy, and if this aint the most unsettling of 9/11 syncronicites. Go to the 9:15 minute mark here and just watch...

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 2&hl=en-GB

I take it they added the slo-mo for added effect? Not that it's at all unusual to see those trucks in Manhattan at any given time.

But it's truly captivating video, nonetheless. The jumpers (so many!) and the guy killed by a chunk of the airplane, terrifying stuff.

There must be lots more of this kind of amateur footage out there.

Well Im just saying a truck with THIS image passing by right after you see the WTC 1/2/7 is kind of a rousing "carrot" for the 9/11 CDer crowd


But yeah, the death and carnage and plane parts on the streets(no planes my ass, heh) and just the young people experiencing 9/11 as its unfolding with that whole "holy shit, Im in a movie" feeling..is incredible and poignant.

[Iroquois]

From 8bitagent...
[quote]
A final point, one I've been wanting to get off my chest for ages. The use of the midnight oil lamp icon on one of the "serious" (ahem") troof sites makes me cringe. It is just so cheesy and utterly naff. No wonder we get laughed at.[\quote]

I've always been bothered by it too. I was certainly happier once Fetzer and his ilk finally got weird enough for Jones and Hoffman to take off.

My theory is that the Atta and at least some of the named hijackers were involved in the attacks, though their piloting skills were not critical. Their primary purpose, perhaps, was to install the hardware needed to remotely operate the planes.

See: http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=11090

It seems quite possible* to me that they did not realize the true nature of the operation, that they even believed it to be a component in a drill.

As opposed to why they didn't hit a more strategic, rather than theatrical target, like a power plant, I question the placement of the impacts in the towers and the timing of the attacks. Why, for instance, didn't they hit them lower so that more people would be trapped above the fires and, as some of the pro progressive collapse theorists would argue, there would be far more weight above the impact points thus hastening and helping to further ensure the collapses? (I am not actually arguing that the last bit is a solid theory, just that it would better fit the OCT for that reason.) And, why not wait until a few hours later when there would be far more people inside the Towers and surrounding buildings?

* Possible, that is, only if many things did not happen as reported, like the assassination of Daniel Lewin as well as the cell/air phone calls. It is also possible that they knew the attacks were not merely drills but did not know they were doomed to die.

[smiths]

the planes wouldnt need to be fitted with anything,
if you use the old switcheroo,
why did they all turn off the transponder and deviate,

i for one am very taken by the idea that two planes at different altitudes with no transponder signals appear as one plane on a radar screen

atta and his gang thought that the mission would end differently that day,
fuck, maybe they are all still alive and operational,

or maybe its like the gun maker in day of the jackel, you have to tie up the loose ends