Behind the Dalai Lama's Cloak

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Tibet, the 'great game' and the CIA

Postby American Dream » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:27 pm

http://atimes.com/atimes/China/JC26Ad02.html


Tibet, the 'great game' and the CIA
By Richard M Bennett



Given the historical context of the unrest in Tibet, there is reason to believe Beijing was caught on the hop with the recent demonstrations for the simple reason that their planning took place outside of Tibet and that the direction of the protesters is similarly in the hands of anti-Chinese organizers safely out of reach in Nepal and northern India.

Similarly, the funding and overall control of the unrest has also been linked to Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama, and by inference to the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) because of his close cooperation with US intelligence for over 50 years.

Indeed, with the CIA's deep involvement with the Free Tibet Movement and its funding of the suspiciously well-informed Radio Free Asia, it would seem somewhat unlikely that any revolt could



have been planned or occurred without the prior knowledge, and even perhaps the agreement, of the National Clandestine Service (formerly known as the Directorate of Operations) at CIA headquarters in Langley.

Respected columnist and former senior Indian Intelligence officer, B Raman, commented on March 21 that "on the basis of available evidence, it was possible to assess with a reasonable measure of conviction" that the initial uprising in Lhasa on March 14 "had been pre-planned and well orchestrated".

Could there be a factual basis to the suggestion that the main beneficiaries to the death and destruction sweeping Tibet are in Washington? History would suggest that this is a distinct possibility.

The CIA conducted a large scale covert action campaign against the communist Chinese in Tibet starting in 1956. This led to a disastrous bloody uprising in 1959, leaving tens of thousands of Tibetans dead, while the Dalai Lama and about 100,000 followers were forced to flee across the treacherous Himalayan passes to India and Nepal.

The CIA established a secret military training camp for the Dalai Lama's resistance fighters at Camp Hale near Leadville, Colorado, in the US. The Tibetan guerrillas were trained and equipped by the CIA for guerrilla warfare and sabotage operations against the communist Chinese.

The US-trained guerrillas regularly carried out raids into Tibet, on occasions led by CIA-contract mercenaries and supported by CIA planes. The initial training program ended in December 1961, though the camp in Colorado appears to have remained open until at least 1966.

The CIA Tibetan Task Force created by Roger E McCarthy, alongside the Tibetan guerrilla army, continued the operation codenamed "St Circus" to harass the Chinese occupation forces for another 15 years until 1974, when officially sanctioned involvement ceased.

McCarthy, who also served as head of the Tibet Task Force at the height of its activities from 1959 until 1961, later went on to run similar operations in Vietnam and Laos.

By the mid-1960s, the CIA had switched its strategy from parachuting guerrilla fighters and intelligence agents into Tibet to establishing the Chusi Gangdruk, a guerrilla army of some 2,000 ethnic Khamba fighters at bases such as Mustang in Nepal.

This base was only closed down in 1974 by the Nepalese government after being put under tremendous pressure by Beijing.
After the Indo-China War of 1962, the CIA developed a close relationship with the Indian intelligence services in both training and supplying agents in Tibet.

Kenneth Conboy and James Morrison in their book The CIA's Secret War in Tibet disclose that the CIA and the Indian intelligence services cooperated in the training and equipping of Tibetan agents and special forces troops and in forming joint aerial and intelligence units such as the Aviation Research Center and Special Center.

This collaboration continued well into the 1970s and some of the programs that it sponsored, especially the special forces unit of Tibetan refugees which would become an important part of the Indian Special Frontier Force, continue into the present.

Only the deterioration in relations with India which coincided with improvements in those with Beijing brought most of the joint CIA-Indian operations to an end.

Though Washington had been scaling back support for the Tibetan guerrillas since 1968, it is thought that the end of official US backing for the resistance only came during meetings between president Richard Nixon and the Chinese communist leadership in Beijing in February 1972.

Victor Marchetti, a former CIA officer has described the outrage many field agents felt when Washington finally pulled the plug, adding that a number even "[turned] for solace to the Tibetan prayers which they had learned during their years with the Dalai Lama".

The former CIA Tibetan Task Force chief from 1958 to 1965, John Kenneth Knaus, has been quoted as saying, "This was not some CIA black-bag operation." He added, "The initiative was coming from ... the entire US government."

In his book Orphans of the Cold War, Knaus writes of the obligation Americans feel toward the cause of Tibetan independence from China. Significantly, he adds that its realization "would validate the more worthy motives of we who tried to help them achieve this goal over 40 years ago. It would also alleviate the guilt some of us feel over our participation in these efforts, which cost others their lives, but which were the prime adventure of our own."

Despite the lack of official support it is still widely rumored that the CIA were involved, if only by proxy, in another failed revolt in October 1987, the unrest that followed and the consequent Chinese repression continuing till May 1993.

The timing for another serious attempt to destabilize Chinese rule in Tibet would appear to be right for the CIA and Langley will undoubtedly keep all its options open.

China is faced with significant problems, with the Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang province; the activities of the Falun Gong among many other dissident groups and of course growing concern over the security of the Summer Olympic Games in August.

China is viewed by Washington as a major threat, both economic and military, not just in Asia, but in Africa and Latin America as well.

The CIA also views China as being "unhelpful" in the "war on terror", with little or no cooperation being offered and nothing positive being done to stop the flow of arms and men from Muslim areas of western China to support Islamic extremist movements in Afghanistan and Central Asian states.

To many in Washington, this may seem the ideal opportunity to knock the Beijing government off balance as Tibet is still seen as China's potential weak spot.

The CIA will undoubtedly ensure that its fingerprints are not discovered all over this growing revolt. Cut-outs and proxies will be used among the Tibetan exiles in Nepal and India's northern border areas.

Indeed, the CIA can expect a significant level of support from a number of security organizations in both India and Nepal and will have no trouble in providing the resistance movement with advice, money and above all, publicity.

However, not until the unrest shows any genuine signs of becoming an open revolt by the great mass of ethnic Tibetans against the Han Chinese and Hui Muslims will any weapons be allowed to appear.

Large quantities of former Eastern bloc small arms and explosives have been reportedly smuggled into Tibet over the past 30 years, but these are likely to remain safely hidden until the right opportunity presents itself.

The weapons have been acquired on the world markets or from stocks captured by US or Israeli forces. They have been sanitized and are deniable, untraceable back to the CIA.

Weapons of this nature also have the advantage of being interchangeable with those used by the Chinese armed forces and of course use the same ammunition, easing the problem of resupply during any future conflict.

Though official support for the Tibetan resistance ended 30 years ago, the CIA has kept open its lines of communications and still funds much of the Tibetan Freedom movement.

So is the CIA once again playing the "great game" in Tibet?

It certainly has the capability, with a significant intelligence and paramilitary presence in the region. Major bases exist in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and several Central Asian states.

It cannot be doubted that it has an interest in undermining China, as well as the more obvious target of Iran.

So the probable answer is yes, and indeed it would be rather surprising if the CIA was not taking more than just a passing interest in Tibet. That is after all what it is paid to do.

Since September 11, 2001, there has been a sea-change in US Intelligence attitudes, requirements and capabilities. Old operational plans have been dusted off and updated. Previous assets re-activated. Tibet and the perceived weakness of China's position there will probably have been fully reassessed.

For Washington and the CIA, this may seem a heaven-sent opportunity to create a significant lever against Beijing, with little risk to American interests; simply a win-win situation.

The Chinese government would be on the receiving end of worldwide condemnation for its continuing repression and violation of human rights and it will be young Tibetans dying on the streets of Lhasa rather than yet more uniformed American kids.

The consequences of any open revolt against Beijing, however, are that once again the fear of arrest, torture and even execution will pervade every corner of both Tibet and those neighboring provinces where large Tibetan populations exist, such as Gansu, Qinghai and Sichuan.

And the Tibetan Freedom movement still has little likelihood of achieving any significant improvement in central Chinese policy in the long run and no chance whatever of removing its control of Lhasa and their homeland.

Once again it would appear that the Tibetan people will find themselves trapped between an oppressive Beijing and a manipulative Washington.

Beijing sends in the heavies
The fear that the United States, Britain and other Western states may try to portray Tibet as another Kosovo may be part of the reason why the Chinese authorities reacted as if faced with a genuine mass revolt rather than their official portrayal of a short-lived outbreak of unrest by malcontents supporting the Dalai Lama.

Indeed, so seriously did Beijing view the situation that a special security coordination unit, the 110 Command Center, has been established in Lhasa with the primary objective of suppressing the disturbances and restoring full central government control.

The center appears to be under the direct control of Zhang Qingli, first secretary of the Tibet Party and a President Hu Jintao loyalist. Zhang is also the former Xinjiang deputy party secretary with considerable experience in counter-terrorism operations in that region.

Others holding important positions in Lhasa are Zhang Xinfeng, vice minister of the Central Public Security Ministry and Zhen Yi, deputy commander of the People's Armed Police Headquarters in Beijing.

The seriousness with which Beijing is treating the present unrest is further illustrated by the deployment of a large number of important army units from the Chengdu Military Region, including brigades from the 149th Mechanized Infantry Division, which acts as the region's rapid reaction force.

According to a United Press International report, elite ground force units of the People's Liberation Army were involved in Lhasa, and the new T-90 armored personnel carrier and T-92 wheeled armored vehicles were deployed. According to the report, China has denied the participation of the army in the crackdown, saying it was carried out by units of the armed police. "Such equipment as mentioned above has never been deployed by China's armed police, however."

Air support is provided by the 2nd Army Aviation Regiment, based at Fenghuangshan, Chengdu, in Sichuan province. It operates a mix of helicopters and STOL transports from a frontline base near Lhasa. Combat air support could be quickly made available from fighter ground attack squadrons based within the Chengdu region.
The Xizang Military District forms the Tibet garrison, which has two mountain infantry units; the 52nd Brigade based at Linzhi and the 53rd Brigade at Yaoxian Shannxi. These are supported by the 8th Motorized Infantry Division and an artillery brigade at Shawan, Xinjiang.

Tibet is also no longer quite as remote or difficult to resupply for the Chinese army. The construction of the first railway between 2001 and 2007 has significantly eased the problems of the movement of large numbers of troops and equipment from Qinghai onto the rugged Tibetan plateau.

Other precautions against a resumption of the long-term Tibetan revolts of previous years has led to a considerable degree of self-sufficiency in logistics and vehicle repair by the Tibetan garrison and an increasing number of small airfields have been built to allow rapid-reaction units to gain access to even the most remote areas.

The Chinese Security Ministry and intelligence services had been thought to have a suffocating presence in the province and indeed the ability to detect any serious protest movement and suppress resistance.



Richard M Bennett, intelligence and security consultant, AFI Research.
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Postby AlicetheKurious » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:14 pm

Excellent article, American Dream. Thanks.

Searcher08 said:

To say that the Chinese have a model of foreign policy which is in anyway altruistic is IMHO deeply racist - in the "Oh Noooo they are not like THAT".


First, no state's foreign policy is "altruistic", nor should it be. But Western imperialist policy is not only not-altruistic, it is insane, and invariably bloodthirsty.

Long suffering Sudan has had more than its share of British, American and Israeli interference, which has brought that country nothing but grief and horror, that are then used to justify even more vicious interventions, under the banner of humanitarianism.

Collaboration between China and Sudan is a win-win strategy for both, and a blow to the hegemonic USRAELI global matrix. Now THAT's sane.

More power to them.

For an interesting look at the cynical provocation of mass slaughter to further Western interests, see Tactical Use of Genocide in Sudan and the Five Lakes Region
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Postby compared2what? » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:42 pm

Oh, hi --

Just thought I'd post because I do still have a simple question for 8bit in the queue that was honestly asked. And since hope springs eternal in the human heart, I'd like to reiterate it in the interest of increasing the likelihood of a response.

8bit, what's the basis for asserting that Gandhi was a Blavatsky adept? Inquiring minds really do want to know.

Please feel free to overlook the rest of the prior post. It did strike me that there was an element of anachronistic conflation in your representation of the bigger picture, but since you're not submitting a scholarly paper for peer review, how you reach your understanding of events and for what purpose is not, strictly speaking, anyone's business but yours, within reasonable parameters.

However, out of a pure interest in the quirks of history, I really would like to know from what you're adducing the Blavatsky-Gandhi connection. Because it's a mad interesting quirk.

What's up with that?

Dali Lama-ists, -- sorry to interrupt. As you were, and thank you for the stimulating discussion.
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Postby 8bitagent » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:00 pm

erosoplier wrote:
8bitagent wrote:Thats because the media is NOT anti China.

Its just like how AIPAC makes sure any criticism of Israel is censored in the American media.


Oh, I see, except nearly no negative opinions of Israel are to be seen on American TV, yet every other American political or military drama will use China as the bad guy, and every other US citizen has a "bad feeling" that one day there will be a "confrontation," a "reckoning" with China. How does that come about when it's "just like" with AIPAC?

How come we dont hear about China forcing abortions, ripping out organs out of people, the rounding up and execution of countless innocent people, etc? All just conspiracy theories?


In case you hadn't noticed, the abortion figures in the West are nothing to be proud of either. And in case you hadn't noticed, China has had to deal with the most outrageous population growth issues. It literally has been a choice between abortions now or famine later for China. They chose the former. Do you really have a problem with their choice in this matter?

And re. the rest - pot, kettle, black. At least they stay home and mistreat and murder their own, rather than lobbing in some foreign land to do the same. (And let's be aware that Americans are foremost among those who purchase organs which just happen to have been ripped out of desperate/unsuspecting poor people. All a beautiful capitalist success story of the market "facilitating the meeting of demand," hey?).

Oh my God, I actually call out both the US government AND China as evil. Oh noes!

The United States government, England, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Dubai, Sudan, European Union, China, Russia, North Korea, etc. These are all human rights abusing, power hungry, despotic gangsters within the new world order system. One look at what their corporate proxies do throughout Africa, and its clear what the agenda is.

Funny how people like you will go on about a 9/11 setup, yet fail to see how it aint just America into staging terror and putting a steel toed boot on the throat of humanity.


9/11 happened, and Europe has been choking on its corn flakes every morning since. It was called Project for a New AMERICAN Century, remember?


If you really wanna beleive some neocon stoogers were behind 9/11, be my guest.

Also you keep insinuating Im defending America because I lamblast China. WTF? The majority of the articles and polemics I've written have been about exposing the evil of the US government and their corporate interests. In my view both the US and China are bad guys, and no surprise the elite may someday manipulate all sides into a giant global conflict.

"Hey at least China murders their own, instead of going outside their borders to kill"...yeah, I wouldnt call Darfur region or Burma within the Chinese borders.

Once again, I dont disagree with you about America, Im just saying China isnt some innocent scapegoat
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Postby 8bitagent » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:06 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:
Now. Just as there are many things to admire about China (and I think it's impossible to be familiar with that country without admiring and respecting a great deal), there are many things that need to be opposed and denounced. However, China's policy in Sudan is not one of them.


Thats funny, because very few places do I see the "China/Sudan Darfur meme". I see a "China should exert some diplomacy to get Sudan to do something".

I think its hilarious...no, wait...unfortunate, that Alice goes off about American, British and Israeli deep politics of corruption and war mongering...which WE ALL agree on here.

But then Alice seems to white wash the crimes by Wahhabist corrupt states like Saudi Arabia, the human rights abuses going on in the middle east, and then putting some sort of scented rose smell to the China/Sudan/Darfur situation. Good grief.

In my view, both the US/British/Israeli junta, and the Saudis, Pakistanis, Sudan, China...theyre all part of the NWO. Just different factions, who come together for corporate interests.


Sounder wrote:I remember when the Chinese leader (Hu?) spoke to our congress. I was surprised that the speech was broadcast out to us peons.


Yeah I also remember in 2006 a woman Chinese doctor being hauled off by secret service after yelling in Chinese to Bush and Hu in DC about exposing the horror of the state sanctioned organ ripping going on from prisoners.
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Postby 8bitagent » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:09 pm

compared2what? wrote:
The Nazis had a STRONG interest in Tibet, because of their Thule/Theosophic like belief of Aryan super gods living in a portal above Tibet.

I mean, Gandhi was a well known adept of Blavatsky doctrine, someone(Blavatsky) I feel whose occult mastery descended into some pretty racist like ideas. That doesnt mean Gandhi was bad


I don't vigorously dispute the first point, as far as it goes, assuming you are asserting it as opinion. But I don't see that the prima facie case for arguing that Nazi interest in Tibet was strong because of their Thule/Theosophic-like beliefs is so strong that it can be assumed without any argument at all. They had a strong interest in Tibet and they had a significant interest in esoteric mysticism. But so did the guys running the show in Great Britain and the United States at that point in history. It's not like the Nazis invaded Poland as an opening maneuver in a grand plan the ultimate prize of which was to be the triumphant siege of Tibet.

Blavatsky was a woman of her time, which was the nineteenth century, during which there was a general surge of interest in the mystic east, for reasons that are more complex and compound than esoteric mysticism qua esoteric mysticism. Nor were her racial views very unusual for a person of her class, place and time, at least in degree. They were definitely remarkable in form, but even so, most of the science that makes them look so manifestly out-there in the present was either in its infancy (Darwinian evolutionary theory) or unknown (plate tectonics) at the time, and it was a time in which information traveled at a much slower pace than it does now. For most people, Lemuria probably sounded as reasonable (or unreasonable) as having an ancestor in common with a primate. It's also worth noting that every national and imperial power big enough to try to monopolize a major trade route in a very large market had a strong interest in Tibet between the turn of the century and the Second World War. As well as before and after. It was and is a geopolitical hot spot.


In my view, all sides of World War 2 were all puppets of occult secret societies and corporate interests profitting and manipulating both sides.
More "order out of chaos".

And no secret that the Social Darwinist(hell Darwinism in general), and sickening Eugenics ideologies came from 19th century America, Britian, etc.

You mix in Eugenics, racial superiority beliefs, corporatism, militarism, hegemony and the occult...and man, thats a powder keg from which many millions of people paid dearly for.

Anyways, so tell us...why is it the Nazis had such a strong spiritual interest in Tibet?
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Re: Dalai Lama says Afghanistan war 'mature'

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:12 pm

chlamor wrote:The Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, has said that the United States bombing campaign against Afghanistan represents a more mature approach than taken during previous wars.


If he said that about the US destruction of Afghanistan, than I find that deeply disturbing.

I am absolutely opposed to the US invasion of Afghanistan, and feel like Im in the minority that says Afghanistan is an immoral war based on lies.

Over 6000 innocents died at the hands of US bombs, many more ended up starving to death and being maimed. Theres no "moral" just in the US invading Afghanistan, its all about pipelines and "strategery"
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Postby 8bitagent » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:16 pm

Searcher08 wrote:As for the piece about Sudan, the way they treated the Dinka in Southern Sudan absolutely classes as a genocide. They would kill a whole village except for the male children and young teenagers, who would then have a life of daily rape and beatings awaiting them. The Sudanese governments attitude to the Christian blacks was that they were worth less than cattle, apart from the rape opportunities.

To say that the Chinese have a model of foreign policy which is in anyway altruistic is IMHO deeply racist - in the "Oh Noooo they are not like THAT".
Read about Chinese involvement with Mugabe or Equatorial Guinea or Angola.

China's economic progress has come with terrible problems - huge dislocations within the society, mass human migration to the cities, incredible corruption at local levels - where there have been pitched battles between local corrupt Party officials and the populace they are exploiting - ending up in total suppression by the PLA.



But...but, China and Sudan are innocent! theyre just being framed by the white anglo imperialists and Zionists! Its no true! Not true I tells ya!

Yeah it makes me sick how many people have been raped and murdered in Africa, even more sick when its usually acting as proxies for corporate and Western interests

Look how the government of France was found to have been behind the Rwandan genocide

Searcher08 wrote:When I spent my time in China, I was impressed with the ordinary Chinese person - relatively speaking I found them better listeners, more tactile, relatively freer from emotional baggage, and just plain smarter than similar Europeans or Americans I have met. I found that they were very different from the Western stereotypes - yet there were other stereotypes they fitted into.

When it comes to the calculus of balancing freedom of expression with security, freedom doesn't get a look-in. Just act Falun Gong about that.


Doesnt surprise me, a lot of people are much more intelligent, open minded, etc than many in the West...especially Americans who for the most part are so far in a box there's little hope of escaping their ethno/geo-centrism
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Postby OP ED » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:18 pm

This is the part where I "laugh out loud" at Alice's depiction of Chinese foreign policy. Or cry.

You'd think someone who was so good at seeing through American bullshit could see it coming from other directions as well. Oh well, no one is perfect.

BTW, "Socialism" is a "western imperialist" meme. In case you didn't know. It seems to have somehow become culturally equated with Chinese history or something.

I'm curious about the Gandhi/Blavatsky idea too, as it isn't one I've heard before, and I haven't detected an ounce of Theosophism in Gandhi, rather the opposite if anything. Of course some people seem to think the Nazis were Theosophists too. That's just sloppy thinking and lack of knowledge regarding the occult, IMO.

I tend to regard Chinese policy as perfect examples of how one should NOT act under any circumstances. They are at least AS imperialist/colonialist as the Anglo-American Axis and tend towards the same strategies [rule by proxy].

I find it laughable that you regard Chinese policy in Sudan as being "beneficial" for the country's inhabitants, Alice. And here we agree on so much. Aside from Usrael, that is, but I've always been able to see where that idea comes from at least. Where you get the idea that China is somehow well-behaved is lost on me. Perhaps you could explain it better. What's so funny about war, hate, and cultural intolerance?
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Postby 8bitagent » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:22 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:Collaboration between China and Sudan is a win-win strategy for both, and a blow to the hegemonic USRAELI global matrix. Now THAT's sane.

More power to them.

For an interesting look at the cynical provocation of mass slaughter to further Western interests, see Tactical Use of Genocide in Sudan and the Five Lakes Region


Murdering hundreds of thousands is a win-win strategy?, and somehow China and Sudan are seperate from "USrael"? Are you kidding me?

The CIA is IN BED with the government of Khartoum:
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0521,h ... 218,2.html

THIS IS WHY the Bush regime wont officially call Sudan or China bad.
This is WHY the CIA USED Sudan to help carry out the USS Cole and puppeteer Osama and Islamic terror forces.

These guys are all bad guys, there's no "well US and Israel are evil, these guys are good guys".

Perhaps that can be said about Venezuela...I definately think the US has ramped up an anti Venezulean, and anti Iran message.

Also just because I believe Sudan is an evil ran country, doesnt mean they need to be invaded. Theyre in bed with the war makers, thats why you wont see a US military intervention there
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Postby 8bitagent » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:25 pm

compared2what? wrote:Oh, hi --

Just thought I'd post because I do still have a simple question for 8bit in the queue that was honestly asked. And since hope springs eternal in the human heart, I'd like to reiterate it in the interest of increasing the likelihood of a response.

8bit, what's the basis for asserting that Gandhi was a Blavatsky adept? Inquiring minds really do want to know.

Please feel free to overlook the rest of the prior post. It did strike me that there was an element of anachronistic conflation in your representation of the bigger picture, but since you're not submitting a scholarly paper for peer review, how you reach your understanding of events and for what purpose is not, strictly speaking, anyone's business but yours, within reasonable parameters.

However, out of a pure interest in the quirks of history, I really would like to know from what you're adducing the Blavatsky-Gandhi connection. Because it's a mad interesting quirk.

What's up with that?

Dali Lama-ists, -- sorry to interrupt. As you were, and thank you for the stimulating discussion.


In 1891, Gandhi became obsessed with Blavatsky doctrine in London.
There's no conspiracy here, this is something theosophists and Gandhi researchers fully acknowledge. Here's a quick google index of thousands of articles on it all:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ga ... gle+Search
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Postby American Dream » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:26 pm

compared2what wrote:
what's the basis for asserting that Gandhi was a Blavatsky adept? Inquiring minds really do want to know.


Here's something I found on the matter:

http://www.gandhiserve.org/information/ ... /faq9.html

FAQ 9: Gandhi and Theosophy

Q What about Gandhi and theosophy ?

A My answer will apply to theosophy and theosophists as well as the Theosophical Society itself.


Gandhi had much interest in and much contact with theosophy. He studied books written by leading theosophists such as Madame Blavatsky and Annie Besant. He met many leading and ordinary theosophists. Some of his lifelong friends were theosophists. As a young man in South Africa, contact with theosophy contributed to the growth of his religious sense. Gandhi read different books with different groups of theosophist friends. He was in strong sympathy with theosophy's message of "universal brotherhood and consequent toleration", as he put it in 1926. Around the turn of the 20th century, theosophist friends in South Africa were pressing him to join the Theosophical Society. However, Gandhi did not wish to follow this path. What did not appeal to him about theosophy was its "secret side", as he described it, or its occultism. Gandhi always belonged to the masses. He believed secrecy hindered the spirit of democracy. Throughout his adult life he avoided virtually everything which could not be experienced by the masses. He agreed there might be much to be said in favor of occultism in religion. He conceded Hinduism was not free from it. But he felt he was under no obligation to subscribe to it.


Theosophy is an interesting subject to study from Gandhi's point of view because he wrote about it at the very end of his life, and with Gandhi, the most recent view is always the one to be given most credence. To close I will quote from Gandhi's journal "Harijan", from the issue published on the day he was assassinated, January 30, 1948:

"I have come to the conclusion that the Theosophy is Hinduism in theory, and that Hinduism is Theosophy in practice."
"There are many admirable works in Theosophical literature, which one may read with the greatest profit; but it appears to me that too much stress has been laid upon mental and intellectual studies: upon argument, upon the development of occult powers, and that the central idea of theosophy, the brotherhood of mankind and the moral growth of man has been lost sight of in these."

"Hindu sages have told us that to live the life, no matter how hampered it might be, no matter with what limitations, is infinitely superior to having a mental grasp of things Divine. They have taught us that until, one by one and step by step, we have woven these things into our lives, we would not be able to have a grasp of the whole of the Divine teaching; and so, if you want to live the real life, it is not to be lived in Theosophical libraries, but it is to be lived in the world around you, in the real practice of the little teaching that you might have been able to grasp."
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Postby OP ED » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:28 pm

I must point out that if there is any "china related propoganda" where I live [detroit] it is very much in the "pro" category. It seems they go to extra efforts to point out that China is our friend, especially when the motor companies move a factory [or ten] over there.

The only ones I know who regard "confrontation" with them as "inevitable" are the far-right types and/or neocons. Marginalized people, even among their own parties. I dunno, maybe y'all have different television/radio stations, but they seem to go out of their way here to paint China as the good guys, and anything china does that could be filed under "bad" as being a misunderstanding.
Giustizia mosse il mio alto fattore:
fecemi la divina podestate,
la somma sapienza e 'l primo amore.

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Postby compared2what? » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:05 pm

8bitagent wrote:
compared2what? wrote:Oh, hi --

Just thought I'd post because I do still have a simple question for 8bit in the queue that was honestly asked. And since hope springs eternal in the human heart, I'd like to reiterate it in the interest of increasing the likelihood of a response.

8bit, what's the basis for asserting that Gandhi was a Blavatsky adept? Inquiring minds really do want to know.

Please feel free to overlook the rest of the prior post. It did strike me that there was an element of anachronistic conflation in your representation of the bigger picture, but since you're not submitting a scholarly paper for peer review, how you reach your understanding of events and for what purpose is not, strictly speaking, anyone's business but yours, within reasonable parameters.

However, out of a pure interest in the quirks of history, I really would like to know from what you're adducing the Blavatsky-Gandhi connection. Because it's a mad interesting quirk.

What's up with that?

Dali Lama-ists, -- sorry to interrupt. As you were, and thank you for the stimulating discussion.


In 1891, Gandhi became obsessed with Blavatsky doctrine in London.
There's no conspiracy here, this is something theosophists and Gandhi researchers fully acknowledge. Here's a quick google index of thousands of articles on it all:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ga ... gle+Search


Much appreciated. I look forward to reading it. I see you have a question for me, and will return the favor....tomorrow? My work day happens to begin at 1 am today. Technically tomorrow. But you're making a movie, you know the same routine in another form, and probably also that any business that has a start hour of 1 am is inherently prone to unforeseeable delays. Which is an incredible drag, to which you can only say: Whee! and then proceed with as much cheery professional poise as possible.

Oops.Crankily OT, and in a way that obviously belies the wishful thinking, too. Oh well. Thanks.
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Postby chlamor » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:19 pm

THE CIA'S SECRET WAR IN TIBET

The first Americans Nawang Gayltsen ever saw had small, silver eagles
pinned on their caps. Nawang will never forget those eagles. They seemed
auspicious, like totems of victory or success. Today, his face wrinkles
into a sad smile remembering this. The Americans came, he said, in a big
turboprop plane, a gleaming machine that he and other awed Tibetans called
a "sky ship." They wore sunglasses and baggy flight suits. They packed
shiny automatic weapons on their hips. And speaking through an interpreter,
they asked Nawang if he wanted to kill Chinese. "I told them I would be
very happy to kill many Chinese," recalled the 63-year-old rug merchant,
one of thousands of exiled Tibetans living in this picturesque Himalayan
capital. "I was very young and strong then. Very patriotic. I told them I
would even be a suicide bomber." The strangers, Air Force pilots working
with the CIA, must have liked what they heard because on that hot day back
in 1963, at a secret air base in India, they took Nawang and 40 other
Tibetan recruits on the first airplane ride of their lives. It was a
journey that would stretch halfway around the world and into one of the
murkiest chapters of the CIA's long history of covert activity in Asia: a
secret war in Tibet. Between the late 1950s and the mid-1960s, say Tibetan
veterans such as Nawang and U.S. intelligence experts who corroborate their
stories, the American government flew hundreds of eager Tibetan exiles to
far-flung bases in Okinawa, Guam and even Colorado. There they were trained
as guerrillas against the Chinese troops that had invaded the remote
Buddhist kingdom in 1950. The Tibetans, many recruited from the warrior
Khamba tribe, were parachuted back into their homeland at night with
submachine guns and neck lockets with photos of the Dalai Lama, Tibet's
spiritual leader. Some CIA trainees ended up commanding a Kiplingesque army
of 2,000 resistance fighters dubbed the Chusi Gangdruk, or "Four Rivers,
Six Gorges."

Their specialty was ambushing the People's Liberation Army from bases high
in the cloud-colored mountains of Nepal. Others floated down through the
moonlit skies of central Asia never to be heard from again: At least 40
were presumed captured by the Chinese and executed by a pistol-shot in the
back of the head. Today, this obscure Cold War skirmish in a high, lonely
place many Americans associate with Shangri-La is a tale that both the CIA
and the Dalai Lama's pacifist government-in-exile would prefer to forget.
After all, China's grip on Tibet remains stronger than ever. Yet at a time
when the Dalai Lama's non-violent campaign for independence has captured
the attention of Hollywood--where Walt Disney and Tri-Star are producing
elegiac hymns to "lost Tibet" and Richard Gere and fellow actors champion
the mountain land's cause--the Tibetan foot soldiers of that quixotic war
are beginning to break their decades-old vow of silence to the CIA. Most of
the ex-guerrillas are grandfathers now. They run carpet factories in
Katmandu or tend dusty farms in the foothills of western Nepal.

They admit that going public about their American connections is as much a
sign of growing frustration with Tibet's languishing drive for freedom as
it is a reckoning with mortality. For many, speaking out seemed a final act
of resistance. "We are old, and we will be gone soon," explained Nawang,
who says he was taught to blow up bridges by CIA instructors at Camp Hale,
a now-abandoned Army base near Vail, Colo. "People should know that men
died for this. These things are no longer secrets. They stopped being
secrets when we lost." Truth be told, little about the CIA's skullduggery
in the Himalayas is a real secret anymore--except maybe to the U.S.
taxpayers who bankrolled it. Within the close-knit Tibetan exile
communities in Nepal and India, the exploits of the Khambas and their CIA
patrons have become a folk legend, albeit one retold grudgingly, with an
awkward mixture of pride and bitterness. In the U.S. meanwhile, the
insurgency has received at least fleeting treatment in books about the Cold
War. "The real mystery is why the conflict isn't more famous given all the
romance and fascination surrounding Tibet these days," said Warren Smith,
an author and scholar in Washington, who has written extensively on the
politics and history of Tibet. "In that sense at least, the CIA has good
reason to call Tibet a qualified success. It was a complete disaster
militarily, but few Americans have a clue." This much, though, can be
pieced together from a little-known war in the once-forbidden heart of
Asia, a war waged by tough Buddhist monks turned warriors and disillusioned
CIA agents turned Buddhists. The U.S. government, Tibetan sources say,
only began poking into their independence struggle following years of
inaction and indifference, long after the Dalai Lama called for United
Nations help when Mao Tse-tung annexed the country, claiming that it had
once been part of the ancient Han empire. The turning point in American
policy came in 1959, when Tibetan anger at China's communal farming drives
and the destruction of Buddhist monasteries boiled over into a popular
revolt.

That bloody uprising failed, forcing the Dalai Lama and 80,000 followers to
flee across icy Himalayan passes to India, where they remain to this day.
Another 15,000 fled to Nepal.

But the CIA, eager to stoke even a doomed anti-communist rebellion, saw its
chance. Using American pilots who would later carry out "black operations"
in Laos and Cambodia during the Vietnam War, the agency began flying
unmarked C-130 aircraft across the highest mountains in the world to
airdrop guns and ammunition to bands of pony-riding Tibetan guerrillas who
wanted to fight on. Nawang Gayltsen was one of them. "We had five guns and
fifty bullets to share among 80 men," Nawang said of his part in the
fruitless defense of Lhasa, Tibet's medieval capital. "The Chinese had
machine guns and artillery, and many, many of us died. We knew it was
hopeless, and we rode our horses south to India to escape and regroup."
And to retrain, courtesy of Uncle Sam. Tibetans working for the CIA quietly
began recruiting fighters in refugee camps in northern India, veterans say,
by handing out bus fare and directions to the Indian city of Darjeeling, a
sleepy colonial tea-growing center that the exile resistance had chosen as
its headquarters. At first, only a few dozen trainees were shipped in
trucks and freight trains across the border into what was then East
Pakistan where they were bundled onto American planes bound for Guam and
Okinawa.

But by late 1962, India was brought into the shell game, and an airfield
near New Delhi was made available to fly out Tibetans in batches of 40 or
50--this time all the way to Camp Hale, the Army base in the Rocky
Mountains and the former home of World War II's famed 10th Mountain
Division. "They gave us sleeping pills when we got into the plane," said
Nawang, a reserved, courtly man who was born on a rustic farm in eastern
Tibet and who had never seen an aircraft up close.

"They put curtains on the windows because they didn't want us to know where
we were going. But we all knew we were flying to America. We were all
laughing, all very happy." According to Tibetan sources, between 200 and
400 fighters were cycled through a six-month-long boot camp in a secluded
part of the sprawling, craggy base from 1959 to 1966.

The Tibetan training program lurched ahead even as the CIA endured the
worst military humiliation in its history: the Bay of Pigs fiasco in Cuba.
"None of us knew how to fight the Chinese the modern way," recalled Nawang.
"But the Americans taught us. We learned camouflage, spy photography, guns
and radio operation. We played Ping-Pong on Sundays." His guerrilla
education complete, Nawang says he was flown back to India "clean," without
a single scrap of identification in his pockets.

For the next year, he helped monitor struggling guerrilla cells in Tibet
from a joint CIA-Indian command center in New Delhi. He was given the
all-American code name "Bernie." Today, the CIA neither confirms nor denies
such detailed allegations about an operation that proceeded through the
Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson presidencies. "Regardless of how much time
has passed, we can't comment publicly on any of this," said Mark Mansfield,
an agency spokesman.

But a retired CIA agent identified by several Tibetan sources as a major
figure in the secret war corroborated much of Nawang's story. "The idea
was to make Tibet very expensive for China," said the former agent, who now
lives in the eastern U.S. "The Chinese had these long, vulnerable supply
lines. The guerrillas were supposed to harass them, tie up troops,
generally make life miserable. And for a while, they actually succeeded."
Yet from the very beginning, the agent said, planners at CIA headquarters
in Langley, Va., had few illusions about pushing well-equipped Chinese
divisions out of the kingdom. "Did we tell the Tibetans that? Of course
not," he said. "But if we used the Tibetans for our own ends, then they
also used the Cold War to get support for sovereignty. I feel no guilt
whatsoever over the operation, especially given what the Chinese have done
in Tibet since." Few issues are as sensitive for China as the
international crusade against Beijing's control of the vast, windswept
peaks and deserts of Tibet. Human rights groups long have condemned China
for jailing thousands of political prisoners there, many of them Buddhist
nuns and monks. More than two decades ago, during the fanatical height of
the Cultural Revolution, Red Guards blasted 90 percent of the nation's
exquisite monasteries into rubble. Beijing asserts that Tibet is an
indivisible part of China. Today the dwindling survivors of Tibet's secret
war complain that their country's martyrdom has effectively erased their
own sacrifices. "For years, the only way Tibetans could get a hearing in
the world's capitals was to emphasize our spirituality and helplessness,"
said Jamyang Norbu, a leading Tibetan intellectual who joined the
guerrillas briefly as a teenager. "Tibetans who pick up rifles don't fit
that romantic image we've built up in Westerners' heads. So these old guys
are ignored, have no pension, no medals, and are just fading away."
Rinchen Dharlo, the Dalai Lama's official representative in the U.S.,
disagrees, saying that the aging guerrillas are still honored "as heroes
even though the use of force has long since been abandoned." Maybe so. But
the old CIA links are still controversial enough that the Dalai Lama, who
won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989, traditionally has declined to talk about
American meddling in the Himalayas even though his elder brother, a
businessman named Gyalo Thondup, is widely known to have coordinated most
of the clandestine aid flowing through Darjeeling. "We were desperate, and
the Americans stepped in to help," said Lobsang Tsultrim, 55, a former
security chief for the Dalai Lama's government in Dharamsala, India, who
says he was recruited by the CIA in 1964. "I am not ashamed about that. I'm
just disappointed that it was too little too late." Lobsang, a melancholy,
crewcut-topped man who retired from his government post in 1989 to start a
carpet export business in Katmandu--the lucrative carpet trade is virtually
a Tibetan monopoly in Nepal--says he was instructed by the CIA to launch
the most delicate guerrilla operation of all: demobilization. By mid-1960s,
the CIA had switched its strategy from parachuting commandos into Tibet to
setting up the Chusi Gangdruk, a grizzled army of 2,000 ethnic Khamba
fighters, at secret bases across the border in pro-U.S. Nepal. From there,
the thinking went, the gung-ho Tibetans could strike across the
international boundary at will. Many of them were ex-monks who had taken up
arms to defend their faith against communism. "Aside from a few
intelligence coups the Khambas didn't accomplish much," Tibet expert Smith
said. "Their job was to cut the east-west highway running along the Tibetan
border, but the Chinese just moved the road farther north." In 1968, U.S.
sources say, the Johnson administration did some cutting of its own: It
stopped funding the pointless war. Victor Marchetti, a top CIA aide who
has written several books on the agency's activities in the 1970s,
described the outrage many U.S. field agents felt when Washington pulled
the plug, noting that several "(turned) for solace to the Tibetan prayers
which they had learned during their years with the Dalai Lama." The
Khambas--outfitted with World War II-era guns, tribal amulets and jackets
stitched from scraps of parachute silk--were less philosophical.

Despite growing protests from both Nepal and China, hundreds of warriors
held out with Indian and Taiwanese support until 1974, two years after
President Richard Nixon normalized U.S. relations with China. The death
knell, when it finally came, arrived via audiotape. "His Holiness urged
them to put down their weapons," Lobsang said of a recording of the Dalai
Lama that was hand-carried from camp to camp in the dusty, lunar mountains
of northwestern Nepal. "Most of them gave up and were relocated to small
farms. A few committed suicide. Some tried to escape to India and were
ambushed by the Chinese and the Nepalis, who were embarrassed by the
operation." The final shots of the secret war, fired by Nepalese Ghurka
soldiers, killed the last U.S.-trained guerrilla leader at a remote
18,000-foot pass near the Indian border.

The CIA quietly paid to resettle the survivors. The Tibetans have eschewed
organized violence ever since. "Now all we do is wait, and the Chinese will
beat us at this too," said Lobsang, who noted that his grown daughter,
raised in Nepal, visited Tibet for the first time last year and felt "like
an alien." Other aging veterans voice similar laments--less that their
past struggle, however brave, has sunk into oblivion, but that their future
is heading for the same fate. Nawang refuses to revisit his homeland
despite repeated Chinese offers of fence-mending. The capital he defended
on horseback 37 years ago now boasts more than 300 Chinese discos. "They
require us to register as `overseas Chinese,' to get in," said Nawang. He
said he is a Tibetan and will never be a Chinese. He said that he will
probably die in Katmandu.


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