Yahoo steers towards 'Buffy' conf. to upstage Media confer.

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Postby barracuda » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:10 am

orz wrote:...how can anyone even imagine that is manually updated on a daily or hourly basis by real humans operating to an insanely specific agenda exact to the last word, number and picture yet with no knowledge of what they are doing.

THIS IS SIMPLY NOT POSSIBLE AND SIMPLY NOT HOW A MASSIVE WEB PORTAL SITE IS RUN.

You do know that Yahoo is not a search engine? It is a web directory. Every site listed on a yahoo search has been picked by an employee to appear there after a review of the site and a slew of information required upon a submittal of an application to be listed there. The amount of handwork and human "touches" involved is insane, but that is how it works. That is one reason they employ 14,000 persons (and an unknown number of contractors) at the several HUGE buildings where this cataloguing occurs, a few miles from here in Sunnyvale, California. The popularity of the site as a search engine is somewhat a result of this culling process. The decisions which create the directory are not automated. A small city of idividuals are hammering away, night and day, like Santa's fucking elves, determining exactly what you see in response to every search you make through Yahoo.

AlanStrangis wrote:Buffy was an hour long show.

Yeah, like I said, I couldn't really hang with it. But now you've simply doubled the amount of commercials to sit through, which is the raison d'etre for virtually all television - manipulation. Like any TV show, this one existed to sell product. When the margin of profit no longer supported its existence, that existence was terminated. When you look at the reality of what television (or film) is created to do - sell product through viewer manipulation - why on earth would it be a stretch to assume the most highly-funded government intelligence agencies in the world would want control of it? And as much control as they could possibly get? It is a wonderful medium known world-wide for getting people to purchase items they have absolutely no use for. This characteristic would fit also as an essential attribute of modern and post-modern governments. As well as the vast majority of websites.
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Postby orz » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:31 am

You do know that Yahoo is not a search engine? It is a web directory.

Yes I know this and understand what you're saying but Hugh is still wrong. Unfortunate if I've failed to get my point across successfully but at this point who cares.
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Postby compared2what? » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:45 am

barracuda wrote:]Yeah, like I said, I couldn't really hang with it. But now you've simply doubled the amount of commercials to sit through, which is the raison d'etre for virtually all television - manipulation. Like any TV show, this one existed to sell product. When the margin of profit no longer supported its existence, that existence was terminated. When you look at the reality of what television (or film) is created to do - sell product through viewer manipulation - why on earth would it be a stretch to assume the most highly-funded government intelligence agencies in the world wouldl want control of it? And as much control as they could possibly get? It is a wonderful medium known world-wide for getting people to purchase items they have absolutely no use for. This characteristic would fit also as an essential attribute of modern and post-modern governments. As well as the vast majority of websites.


I mostly say: Right on. With one small exception. Which is that when it comes to commercial masscultural genres, while there may not often be a meaningful distinction between the moyen d'etre and the raison d'etre, there is nevertheless a distinction.

And sometimes it's meaningful. I know you agree with me. Which is my way of tenderly imploring and beseeching you to agree with me, or at least to be gentle about it if you don't. Also, I'm not sure moyen is the mot juste. I was going to say that there was a distinction between qu'est-ce que c'est and qu'est-ce que ce fait. But since I don't know French, I decided I'd be better off avoiding that minefield, and just taking a risk on moyen.

But maybe it should be "methode"? Or...I don't know. Some other word I know but don't know how to use? In all events, I apologize in advance to speakers of French for any offense I may have caused them.
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Postby brainpanhandler » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:07 am

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Re: Yahoo steers towards 'Buffy' conf. to upstage Media conf

Postby Telexx » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:13 am

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:
Telexx wrote:2- How did he (the coordinator) direct the content editors to embed the subliminal messages, keywords and images.


Uh, the way any other editor does in other CIA-influenced/controlled media.


That's not an answer, that's a fudge. C'mon Hugh, I can get my head into a space where spooks are routinely embedded into the media, so explain to me the mechanism by which the Buffy conference was given prominence, how it was done on an editorial level.

How did he direct the editorial team to choose the images... choose the words... How did he direct the workers to embed those messages?

HMW wrote:1) Do you see Yahoo every single day as I do?

No.

2) Have you been watching the editing and layout details of Yahoo as I have for subliminal article tie-ins to legislative themes, court cases, psyops movies, and safe news stories that occlude dangerous news stories and diversions away from scandals?

No. But shouldn't you, strictly speaking, add the word "perceived" throughout that sentence?

3) Do you know the longstanding relationship with CIA that AT&T has?

Yes (to an extent)

4) Do you think that CIA media would not gatekeep mainstream internet providers when the internet can take you straight to finding out about CIA media, for instance?


I can imagine no news media source to be completely free of government agency pressure.

However - what you are postulating with your comment "Uh, the way any other editor does in other CIA-influenced/controlled media" is not pressure, it is control. Micro-managed control. Unless you mean that the embedding of these keywords was not micro-managed?

In which case state how they were embedded without micro-managing? (and, no, this is not a straw-man - you said "CIA-influenced/controlled media") I would love you to explain how the embedding of subliminal messages could happen in a non-micro managed way.

Thanks,

Telexx
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Postby compared2what? » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:47 pm

Telexx wrote:I can imagine no news media source to be completely free of government agency pressure.

However - what you are postulating with your comment "Uh, the way any other editor does in other CIA-influenced/controlled media" is not pressure, it is control. Micro-managed control. Unless you mean that the embedding of these keywords was not micro-managed?

In which case state how they were embedded without micro-managing? (and, no, this is not a straw-man - you said "CIA-influenced/controlled media") I would love you to explain how the embedding of subliminal messages could happen in a non-micro managed way.


I can answer that one!

In reality, the production process whereby words and images end up in print or on a screen for the edification of the reader/viewer is, in fact, not only a process of serial micromanagement to begin with, but one in which there are multiple points of ingress through which putative agents of subliminal-messaging can enter and derail whatever project they don't care for under cover of any number of guises.

Let's postulate a top editor, whom, for the sake of convenience, we will call.....I don't know. How about "Meredith"? The needs, preferences and desires of Meredith are known to all staff members, through memos, weekly meetings, casual conversation, and various other communiques, as is the extent to which Meredith is in a position to buck the wishes of the person whose masthead title would usually be "publisher," though occasionally the top power on the business side is either called something else, or the power is functionally in the hands of someone with a different job title. But let's not quibble about it.

Everyone on the edit side must please Meredith in order to retain his or her job. And Meredith must please the publisher for the same reason. Meredith has personal favorites, at least one or two of whom are known to everyone on staff to act as double-dealing, self-serving rats and trouble-makers. As in any office, many of the parties to the process can't be relied upon to do what they're supposed to do, but owing to institutional apathy are not generally regarded by their colleagues with any real hostility, unless they're powerful. (Let's say, hypothetically, the deputy photo editor, a twenty-year employee of the parent company, is likable enough, and not spectacularly incompetent, but also happens to have numerous personal issues that make dealing with him or her so hellish that no one who could avoid it would dream of challenging him/her, rather than silently attempting to compensate for his or her well-known erratic availability or job functioning. You know what I mean. It doesn't have to be that template, but every office is full of people, and most people are quirky and neither very good or very bad at their jobs. That's just how people are.)

So. Let's now say that a story our putative agent of subliminal messaging wishes to influence one way or the other is pitched at a story meeting, or pops up on the Tuesday morning production schedule, or becomes publicly known by whatever means such things become publicly known at the operation in question. Putative Agent is as familiar with the office environment as everybody is, and, as all staff members do, gets regular updates on the status of the story as it is assigned, revised, formally enters the line-up, and so forth. At every stage subsequent to copy being filed, it makes at least one pass through every department, in any one of which it might be modified, or if necessary, eliminated, owing to a wide variety of both integral and extraneous pre-existing factors, including but not limited to: inter-office power-plays; manipulation of the known fears and desires of Meredith; the artificial introduction of some contingent element which, by frequent repetition, comes to be unthinkinglyl accepted by the group mind as the criterion by which it will or will not qualify for cover or front page exposure; etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

If Putative Agent is focused, alert, and trained in group dynamics, he or she would easily be able to insert a high-priority subliminal message at some point in the process at close to a 100 percent success rate, along with any number of lower-priority subliminal messages that would have about a fifty percent chance of ending up in the finished product just because the field was so heavily seeded with them. No one would ever notice, and it would not be something that was detectably or provably attributable to a single agent.

I'm not asserting that this does or does not happen. And I have no idea if it does. I am just explaining how the embedding of subliminal messages could happen in a non-micro-managed way. I hope coherently, but if not, please let me know, and I will try to clarify.
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Postby compared2what? » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:50 pm

PS -- BUFFY ROCKS!!!
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Postby Telexx » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:20 pm

compared2what? wrote:I can answer that one!

In reality, the production process whereby words and images end up in print or on a screen for the edification of the reader/viewer is, in fact, not only a process of serial micromanagement to begin with, but one in which there are multiple points of ingress through which putative agents of subliminal-messaging can enter and derail whatever project they don't care for under cover of any number of guises.


You just won my newly minted award for paragraph-requiring-multiple-readings-before-it-sinks-in-due-to-extreme-verbosity * - congratulations! ;-)

Seriously though, I was with you (slowly, and in an eyes frequently glazing over fashion) until this:

Compared2What wrote:At every stage subsequent to copy being filed, it makes at least one pass through every department, in any one of which it might be modified, or if necessary, eliminated, owing to a wide variety of both integral and extraneous pre-existing factors, including but not limited to: inter-office power-plays; manipulation of the known fears and desires of Meredith...


Simply not true. Or at least, not always. I have a friend who worked at thesun.co.uk. Their work often, but not always, had to go through a sub editor, who would make corrections sometimes to style, and spelling etc. However, that was that - they were even responsible for uploading their own articles, and populating them with pictures themselves (online staff not being considered real journalists...)

There was one unfortunate event where she populated a piece on UK's Big Brother with a really graphic shot of a 9/11 victim falling from a burning window... :/ It was an honest accident...

But, okay. Let's say you're right. The above in fact could even mean that some spook-journo could easily do his masters bidding and populate an online portal with as many subliminal keywords as he wished. But to do that, there would have to be teams of them for it to be effective throughout the whole media. And then teams controlling the teams... And then controllers controlling the teams of controllers controlling the journos... And you say that's not micro-managing?!

Thanks,

Telexx

*PS not an insult mind, I like verbosity I just never imagined somebody could be so good at it!
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Postby barracuda » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:50 pm

compared2what? wrote:In reality, the production process whereby words and images end up in print or on a screen for the edification of the reader/viewer is, in fact, not only a process of serial micromanagement to begin with, but one in which there are multiple points of ingress through which putative agents of subliminal-messaging can enter and derail whatever project they don't care for under cover of any number of guises.

Exactly. I have worked for years on site design and content generation, and, after a while, the known preferences of the upper layers of management are so pre-determined as to assert themselves, for all intents and purposes, automatically. The butt-sucking sychophants in the office, who run to and fro all day and night pleasing the "stakeholders" (euphemism for "plantation massa") with their groveling, assist this task without being at all aware of the ultimate intent. And content is directed through these forces, being selectively tweaked first hand when neccessary to achieve the desired politicized message. Complicity is deniable, but is in fact part and parcel of the "sign-off" process of final authorization for publication.
compared2what? wrote:PS -- BUFFY ROCKS!!!

Cue gratuitous hottie shot...

Image

Okay, this, or Bill Moyer... Buffy or Bill Moyer... hmmm.
Fuck Bill Moyer.
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Re: Yahoo steers towards 'Buffy' conf. to upstage Media conf

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:37 pm

Telexx wrote:
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:
Telexx wrote:2- How did he (the coordinator) direct the content editors to embed the subliminal messages, keywords and images.


Uh, the way any other editor does in other CIA-influenced/controlled media.


That's not an answer, that's a fudge. C'mon Hugh, I can get my head into a space where spooks are routinely embedded into the media, so explain to me the mechanism by which the Buffy conference was given prominence, how it was done on an editorial level.

How did he direct the editorial team to choose the images... choose the words... How did he direct the workers to embed those messages?


Answer spelled out (I didn't realize this is that difficult) :

1) Information that a spook deems 'hostile information' and therefore warrants a counterpropaganda device ( counterpropaganda = "Any action taken to minimize the effect of hostile information" per Pentagon lit.)...often is SCHEDULED and can be planned for many months ahead of time with a diversion, a Magician's Other Hand effort at just the right time.

2) This Media Reform Conference has been going on for several years and growing.
Every year now the keynote is by Bill Moyers and his speech is hyped by Amy Goodman and Truthout.org etc. SO it has a growing internet footprint that is totally predictable and a threat to spook/corporate mainstream media. This means it is a threat to profits AND social control at the same time. That makes for a strong motive to deploy counterpropaganda at just the right time.

3) Planners can look around for months before the dreaded Moyers speech to find some other conference to promote but not want to make it too obvious that they are doing this since they are already guilty of a blackout on covering the Media Reform Conference.

4) IF there is no spook hand in actually making sure that there's a sexy alternative conference, an easy possibility...

5) ...then just manipulating TWO Yahoo front page elements as binary mnemonic weapons to channel readers into safe harbors can be done-
- faking a Today's Top Searches listing - EASY to do
- making the lead of the Featured Four stories be all 'vampire' images and keywords.

6) I'm going to guess that ONE person has responsibility for choosing content for the Featured Four stories box and writing the few lines of copy.
They may be perps or just a dupe who takes orders from time to time from a perp.

7) And someone else can fake/hack the Today's Top Searches listing.
I know this is done just as best-selling book lists and movie awards are managed for political reasons. The illusion of 'popularity winners' in culture is as important as fake elections because SOCIAL AFFIRMATION is a near magical ingredient in propaganda science, very important to creating the illusion of consensus.

That's TWO PEOPLE carrying out the plan that maybe ONE or TWO probably planned.

That's THREE or FOUR people who can make one of the biggest portals to the internet with a readership of millions into a psyops weapon simply be deploying little tricks now and then.
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Postby orz » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:22 pm

But it's still totally absurd to make the specific connection you made. There's no real connection between the two things and no-one is going to be particularly effected by this totally trivial and tenuous combination of messages. It's nonsense even if you were right about how feasible it would be to do. Which you aren't.
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Postby compared2what? » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:56 pm

Telexx wrote:You just won my newly minted award for paragraph-requiring-multiple-readings-before-it-sinks-in-due-to-extreme-verbosity * - congratulations!


Being deeply sensible of the honor conferred by such formal recognition, I cannot in good faith accept it. To do so would be an insult to all of the dense, verbose, and syntactically byzantine paragraphs written by me that came before it; the giants, so to speak, on the shoulders of which it stands.

I was going to go on to address the more substantive part of your post. But suddenly, and as of this minute, I'm so thirsty that if I don't get some seltzer, oo, I'm gonna fade away. Therefore, I must now run down to the store. So please excuse me. I'll be right back.
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Psy-ops is humidity, not a flush.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:09 pm

orz, you are saying absolutely nothing but "no sir" here. So I will say something.

orz wrote:But it's still totally absurd to make the specific connection you made.

Um, no.

This seemingly trivial stuff is so widespread that it has an effect greater than the sum of the parts. OR, as I once wrote-
"Please remember that psy-ops is more like humidity than a flush. It is all-pervasive and makes the suggestable mind just soggy enough to prevent sparks of recognition."

Kids and teenagers can be steered towards mind candy quite easily.
'Buffy' is mind and eye candy. Girls like her. Men like her.

The study has been going on for ages of eye travel on a page and impulsive or habituated behavior in a high-density message environment.
MIT researches online behavior and so do lots of other institutions.

There's no real connection between the two things and no-one is going to be particularly effected by this totally trivial and tenuous combination of messages.


If someone can be coaxed into using the 45 seconds of 'news' time they spend after signing onto the internet before going to email or MySpace or porn or whatever...by looking at 'safe' consumer/entertainment decoy piffle, then power is protected.

It is at these initial decision paths that people are pointed the wrong way (to the wrong conference) on purpose.

This principle of offering path-of-least-resistance to Safe Harbors is what American mainstream media is just saturated with by spooks and corporateers working paw-in-glove.

It was someone's job - with career and benefits riding - to come up with something to counter the usual attention blurb Moyers creates at that Media Reform Conference.

This kind of perception management is S.O.P and done on principle, not because it is a stroke of genius or perfect or any such impressive thing.
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Postby compared2what? » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:10 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Kids and teenagers can be steered towards mind candy quite easily.


But they can't be made to like it, Hugh. They can't be made to understand it in a uniform way. And they certainly can't be made to buy or internalize it.

I will never stop strongly objecting to this part of your premise. With the exception of kids and teenagers who have never known anything other than the most extreme abuse, neglect, rejection, and isolation, kids and teenagers as a class are just not that easily defeated. They are smarter than you give them credit for, and they are very highly motivated to do whatever they have to do in order to fight their way into adulthood with some part of the core integrity of their identities intact. Human beings are very easily swayed, but not fundamentally so malleable that you can shape them via embedded messaging. You might be able to bend them, for a limited period of time, but that's about it.

This is and always has been the inherent and natural existential lot of kids and teenagers, however lonely and bereft of care and feeding they may be, however damaged, desperate, and lost they are, and however limited their options. Consciously or unconsciously, they will be attracted to stuff that they understand to be speaking a truth and/or addressing a need that they themselves would speak or address if they were consciously aware of it and empowered to do so. What they will do or be able to do with whatever degree of independence and power they attain in adulthood is dependent on so many internal and external factors, it's impossible to predict or meaningfully influence via media messaging during their formative years.

I'm not suggesting that it's not totally possible to form or deform the individual identities of both children and adults to predetermined specs. Because it oh so totally is. But it takes a much more concentrated, coordinated and controlled effort, as well as a much higher degree of emotional pressure than mass-media can command.

Countless applicable examples drawn from the last four decades of youth culture in support of the above statements are available on request Speaking strictly for myself, if it weren't for the unconditional love I received from crappy propagandistic pop media and quality pop media alike as a kid and teenager, by the simple expedient of unconsciously investing it with the power to give it to me, thus managing to give myself something I didn't think I deserved to get behind my own back, I wouldn't have gotten any at all. That's obviously not an ideal method of child-raising, but it wasn't an uncommon one forty years ago and it still isn't.

So I respectfully but strongly request that you stop telling kids and teenagers what shit means to them. They probably aren't at all affected by it. But I'm not the kid I used to be, so I am. Show some respect for my heritage!
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Postby IanEye » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:16 pm

compared2what? wrote:So I respectfully but strongly request that you stop telling kids and teenagers what shit means to them. They probably aren't at all affected by it. But I'm not the kid I used to be, so I am. Show some respect for my heritage!


compared to the way i'd put it, you're getting off lightly Hugh.
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