Seriously, How Many Damn People Filmed JFK's Death?

[AhabsOtherLeg]

If you have good photos of the moon and stars, I think everybody here would want to see them. I would, for sure.

I hear these guys have taken a few photos of those objects over the years:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/index.html

Thanks, Orz.

[Nordic]

That's a blemish on the actual film. Looks like some moisture got in there or something.

[Nordic]

Also, there was just a story about the Newman family. Here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081119/ap_ ... itnesses_1

DALLAS – It seems as if the gracious couple has told the story a thousand times — how the crack of an assassin's bullet struck the president just a few feet from where they stood.

Sometimes it's a reporter or author, but often it's a curious citizen who hopes Bill and Gayle Newman can uncover a sliver of evidence to buttress their own theory about the death of John F. Kennedy.

Who wouldn't want to hear from the couple who were so close to the assassination that is arguably the most scrutinized in American history — particularly as the tragic event marks its 45th anniversary on Saturday?

"At the time, we were both 23 years old and we didn't realize the part in history that we played, because we were the closest people to him when that third shot rang out," Gayle Newman said in a recent interview. "Now as we have grown older, we do realize that this is something that will be a part of all of our life."

The Newmans settled into a spot on the lawn at Dealey Plaza — just below the infamous grassy knoll — a few minutes before Kennedy's motorcade glided by on Nov. 22, 1963. Their two young sons, 4-year-old Billy and 2-year-old Clayton, were in tow.

Bill Newman said he had voted for Nixon in the 1960 election but wanted to get a glimpse of the popular president.

"It's not every day the president of the United States comes to your hometown," he said.

The presidential motorcade arrived in Dealey Plaza by turning right on Houston Street, then left on Elm where it passed by the Texas School Book Depository.

As the president's black convertible came into sight, Bill Newman said, he heard what he thought were fireworks.

"I didn't recognize it as a gunshot," he said, clapping his hands twice with a pause to simulate the sounds.

But as the limousine drew closer, Newman said he could see blood on Kennedy and Texas Gov. John Connally, who was in the car with the president.

"Ten, 12 feet in front of us, the third shot rang out, and that's when the side of his head flew off and I could remember seeing" the blood, Bill Newman said. "I turned to Gayle and I said, that's it, hit the ground."

An iconic picture of the Newmans shielding their two boys is on display the depository building, which has since been converted into a museum.

"It seems like everybody around us was running up the grassy knoll hill," Gayle Newman said. "The police officers had their guns drawn."

Do the couple feel a second gunman fired from the grassy knoll?

"I do tend to want to lean in the direction that it was a conspiracy, meaning more than one person was involved. But so far, no one's ever come forward with concrete evidence," Bill Newman said.

In the 45 years since that day, the Newmans have rarely rebuffed a curious questioner.

"I get calls and letters all the time," Bill Newman said.

But some witnesses to the assassination are not as accommodating as the Newmans and would rather forget the day they saw Kennedy killed.

"The witnesses, for the most part, have very mixed feelings about everything connected to the assassination, beyond the fact, obviously, that a president died in front of them," said Gary Mack, curator of The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza, which occupies the same space as the former book depository.

"This subject rarely goes away for most of them," Mack said.

The Warren Commission concluded in 1964 that Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots at Kennedy's motorcade from the sixth floor of the depository, which overlooked Dealey Plaza. Oswald was arrested as a suspect but was slain two days later by nightclub owner Jack Ruby.

So ... all those witnesses who heard the shots on the grassy knoll, who went running up there to confront the assassins, and who were later told a story that they KNEW was a lie ...? Yeah, that would give me some "mixed feelings", too.

[8bitagent]

I apologise for spreading the thread. If you want me to, I'll narrow the image size.

You forgot a few, 8bit.

The Malcolm Couch film.

The Towner film.

The Dorman film.

The Martin film.

Not to mention the thousands of still photos, of which the Altgens 1-6 photo (corresponding to around Z-252) is really like a one -frame movie, and may contain an image of Oswald in the doorway above JFK, as well as numerous other clues, like the open door of the LBJ's secret service follow up Mercury four door.



And let's not forget the Dictabelt sound recording, made by Dallas police. Here is a very complete synched version.

Holy crap!!!

Wow, thats what, 13 pieces of film that we know of? Geez. and that crystal clear photo, wow.

Do you really think thats oswald?

Heres my questions

1. What was that picture Hugh Manatee kept showing, that shows a known CIA operative as JFK's motorcase is passing?

2. Wasnt one of the last people JFK spoke with, a decorator who worked with oswald in the book despository?

3. Is it possible there was a second shooter in a window near oswald,
to make it look like any second shots came from oswald?

4. Is that really a photo of george hw bush at dealey plaza?

5. Is the E Howard Hunt deathbed confessional real, or is he just having one last fish story to tell?

6. Do any of the non Zapruder films give any clues to the official story not being true?

7. As I say, even if Oswald was the lone shooter, the standdown of the secret service, and the Oswald connections to the deep state as well as all the other shenanigans going on show what a conspiracy it was

[8bitagent]

If you have good photos of the moon and stars, I think everybody here would want to see them. I would, for sure.

I hear these guys have taken a few photos of those objects over the years:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/index.html

Good to see Im not the only one who thinks the "moon landing was a hoax" is itself a hoax.

Tho, Nasa has censored or airbrushed out anomalous objects/structures and UFOs from some of their photos and footage...but thats for another thread

[barracuda]

Man in TSBD doorway in the Altgen photo.


Oswald arrest photo.

[sunny]

Man in TSBD doorway in the Altgen photo.


Oswald arrest photo.

The Warren Commission states that Oswald changed his shirt when he went to his rooming house in order to throw doubt on the likeness. Myself, I don't think there is much doubt it is Oswald in the doorway. It is much more likely he made it to the 2nd floor lunchroom from the doorway in the 90 seconds in took an officer to run up and find him there, than if he had run down 4 flights of stairs to get there in time.

[barracuda]

Wow, thats what, 13 pieces of film that we know of? Geez. and that crystal clear photo, wow.

There's at least two other shadowy and mysterious non-films which may have been confiscated, those of Gordon Arnold, who claims to be seen here to the left of the so-called "Badge Man"in the Moorman photo:



and the Babushka lady's film, for it seems she is filming the event, especially in the images of her captured in the Muchmore and Zapruder films. Beverly Oliver, who claims to tbe the Babushka lady, says her film was taken by federal agents, as does Gordon Arnold.

Myself, I don't think there is much doubt it is Oswald in the doorway.

The FBI released this picture of Billy Lovelady to counter these claims when the Altgen photo was seen around the world:



This doesn't really look like the shirt of the man in the doorway, though.

[sunny]

Gordon Arnold or not, the figure is clearly filming. FWIW, in one of the later installments of The Men Who Killed Kennedy, Arnold described himself as dressed in Army khaki and filming in just this location, when a bullet whizzed past his head. He "hit the round".(he says after the shooting, Badgeman who ran up to him, crying, and demanded his film.) He was quite taken aback when the filmakers showed him this enhanced photo, which seemed to corroborate his story.

[Fat Lady Singing]

The FBI released this picture of Billy Lovelady to counter these claims when the Altgen photo was seen around the world:



This doesn't really look like the shirt of the man in the doorway, though.

No sir, it does not, especially since the guy in the doorway is wearing a jacket. I mean to tell ya... if it ain't Oswald in the doorway, then it was yet another one of his doubles...

[barracuda]

I am no longer a big fan of the badgeman theory - I feel it has been credibly debunked here, but my favorite analysis of it is this one:



Gives me a chuckle every time.

[sunny]

I am no longer a big fan of the badgeman theory - I feel it has been credibly debunked here, ~snipped~.

I get his point on the size of the figures, but on the one hand he says James Files had time to do this:

All these pictures of the grassy knoll were taken at least 30 seconds or more after the final shots. These pictures prove that James Files is right, that nobody reacted immediately, that nobody stormed towards the grassy knoll immediately, and that he had ample time to do the things he claims he did: Put the weapon back in the guncase, bite the shell casing, put it on top of the picket fence, reverse his jacket and walk away.

Yet Gordon Arnold did not have time to do this:

Moreover, his story that the policeman kicked and threathened him and took his film, should have been seen by at least some of the witnesses. This should at least have taken 15 seconds at a time that virtually everybody was looking at the knoll or running towards it. Therefore I dismiss Arnold's story completely.

I'm not ready yet to throw Badgeman over the fence.

BTW, I found this snippet of the Nix film over there, showing the puff of smoke I mentioned earlier:

[orz]

If you have good photos of the moon and stars, I think everybody here would want to see them. I would, for sure.

I hear these guys have taken a few photos of those objects over the years:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/index.html

Thanks, Orz.

Seriously, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING SUSPICIOUS about there being no stars in the moon photos. Anyone who's ever picked up a camera should be able to understand why.

[8bitagent]

So what are people's opinions on this?





Anyone seen the newer documentary that tries to debunk the theories, called "Oswald's Ghost" that aired on pbs? Theres been an AGGRESSIVE campaign by all of the media since 9/11 to try and pin JFK back to just Oswald.

The puff of smoke coming from the knoll in the Nix film, would a high caliber rifle produce something like that? It is an extrordinary piece if true.

And if Oswald is in the doorway when JFK passes by, does that mean he ran back up...as it does kind of look like that other guy

What about the three tramps? Is that really Sturgis and actor Woody Harrelson's dad?

That picture Hugh posted of the CIA guy near JFK's motorcade to me is the most chilling

[barracuda]

I'm not ready yet to throw Badgeman over the fence.

That's a funny way to put it, Sunshine.

For reference, though, here is the Moorman photo actual size (actually, it has been cropped and slightly enlarged from the original of 2.5 x 3.25 inches which includes the 0.375 inch white border that surrounds the entire photograph):



Let's face it, looking at photos is a shitty way to investigate crimes. (Don't get me wrong, it can be done. Poe solved (sort of) the murder of Mary Rogers from 2nd hand newspaper accounts of the police investigation of the crime. (See The Beautiful Cigar Girl)) But look at the size of that image above, and consider the quality of the photo taken via an early polaroid camera. I had a couple of these cameras. They are great cameras, but we are talking about identifying the actions of three discrete individuals within an area of the emulsion comprising roughly two square millimeters. The entire image of the the three persons extrapolated to become the Badgeman picture fits easily into the area of these three lowercase letters: non. And eight millimeter film frames are only eight millimeters, after all. So I think there is some awesome "interpretation of the blur" happening here.

And by and large, that's the conundrum in a nugget. We can't ID GHW Bush in 8bit's photo, but we can believe it's him. I feel positively that Frank Sturgis is one of the tramps. Am I right?

I go along with the general theory that Allen Dulles planned and oversaw the killing of JFK within the realm of the overall tactics of the crime. From there he was able to involve or implicate or blackmail everyone necessary to commit the crime to darkness, and in that darkness reward those who cooperated fully with the grand prize of public power. I believe that the particulars of the scene were managed by elements within the Texas political circles. Look at the witness list from the top down: LBJ was there. Nixon was there. GHW Bush was there. The key persons in the most visible power structure of the country for going on forty years.

I knew a guy who had worked as a political assassin in the Vietnam war. He was recruited into the Rangers out of high school by dint of his extraordinary skill in kendo, which his parents had encouraged him to learn as a child. He told me he killed seventeen minor asian politicians in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos, and that the army used him when they wanted to send a message via the sword hand, when they wanted everyone to know how close they could get, that they didn't have to kill you with a rifle from great distance. They wanted the enemy to know that they got bloody at the kill.