Obama staffer suggests conspiracy to combat "CT"ers

[brainpanhandler]

oh. ffs. There's three of these threads?

Where the hell are the mods? Sleeping on the job again I guess.

[barracuda]

If Nordic and brekin would like me to lock that other thread, I will. American Dream's has been locked already, I believe. But thanks, I was rather drifting off there.

[brekin]

barracuda wrote:

If Nordic and brekin would like me to lock that other thread, I will. American Dream's has been locked already, I believe. But thanks, I was rather drifting off there.

Cool with me.

[jingofever]

If Nordic and brekin would like me to lock that other thread, I will. American Dream's has been locked already, I believe. But thanks, I was rather drifting off there.

I think there is an option to merge threads.

[Hammer of Los]

Not all false conspiracy theories are harmful; consider the false
conspiracy theory, held by many of the younger members of our society, that a secret
group of elves, working in a remote location under the leadership of the mysterious
“Santa Claus,” make and distribute presents on Christmas Eve. This theory is false..

Santa Claus is no conspiracy theory. What the hell is he talking about? The elves are secret now? Santa Claus is mysterious? So, he doesnt appear in every store in the land talking about how busy his secret elves are then? Whoever heard of Santa, or the parents who seem to know so much about him, making any secret of his existence? No, the conspiracy theory is that the machinations of powerful people acting in secret together are responsible for the toys, and that Santa Claus is a phoney.

Besides which, of course, the guy is full of crap all round.

[Nordic]

That's so weird because I have always (possibly to the point of being tedious) compared the Big Realization that one experiences when one realizes 9/11 is a pack of lies, to when you figure out that Santa Claus doesn't exist.

This fool is saying the same things, only in reverse!

What a tool.

I would love to spit in this guy's face. Seriously. How dare he? Can you believe that shit?

(BTW thanks to whoever combined the threads. Very cool!)

[thatsmystory]

What about more transparency in government? Whoops. Stupid idea.

Classification Review Pending formerly Central Intelligence Agency 2003-09-04 9 2 P 18
Classification Review Pending Central Intelligence Agency 2004-05-12 4 3 P 18
Classification Review Pending Drug Enforcement Administration 2004-03-03 2 4 P 19
Classification Review Pending Defense Intelligence Agency 2003-11-10 7 2 P 01
Classification Review Pending Department of the Treasury 2004-02-12 7 4 P 01
Classification Review Pending Federal Bureau of Investigation 2004-01-07 8 6 P 01
Classification Review Pending Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) 2003-11-05 6 4 P 01
Classification Review Pending 2004-02-04 14 N/A P 01
Classification Review Pending Saudi Arabia 2004-05-05 1 1 P 01
Classification Review Pending Department of State 2003-10-20 9 1 P 01
Classification Review Pending National Security Council 2003-07-29; 2003-12-04 15 3 P 01
Classification Review Pending National Security Council 2004-01-14 27 N/A P 02
Classification Review Pending Central Intelligence Agency 2003-12-09 12 N/A P 02
Classification Review Pending National Security Agency 2004-01-21 8 2 P 02
Classification Review Pending Central Intelligence Agency 2003-12-11 14 N/A P 02
Classification Review Pending Department of State 2003-10-21 12 3 P 02
Classification Review Pending Federal Bureau of Investigation 2004-02-02 11 6 P 02

9/11 Commission Memoranda for the Record (MFRs)

[thatsmystory]

That's so weird because I have always (possibly to the point of being tedious) compared the Big Realization that one experiences when one realizes 9/11 is a pack of lies, to when you figure out that Santa Claus doesn't exist.

This fool is saying the same things, only in reverse!

What a tool.

I would love to spit in this guy's face. Seriously. How dare he? Can you believe that shit?

(BTW thanks to whoever combined the threads. Very cool!)

At what point is one justified in thinking that government officials may not be acting in good faith? Was Sunstein on a deserted island during the Bush years?

[Simulist]

(5) Government might engage in informal communication with such parties, encouraging them to help.

LOL That was exactly my reaction when I read that, too.

The research paper from Harvard that Brainpanhandler posted was interesting reading, even if I did snicker quite a bit throughout. The paper is a pretty comically failed effort on the part of its authors for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the proverbial "elephant in the living room" who makes quite a grandiose appearance throughout the paper — and, of course, its authors don't even seem to notice him. (Poor, sad, lonely elephant.)

The elephant is of course the vapid and common assumption (and blatant mistake) that because we are an allegedly "free" and "open" society, that "the press is free," "checks and balances are in force," and that "government cannot easily keep its conspiracies hidden for long."

Holy mackerel. And "conspiracy theorists" are said to be delusional?!? Where have these authors been? Oh, I forgot — Harvard. (And undoubtedly obsequious ninnies on the dean's list at Harvard or elsewhere, before that.)

[brainpanhandler]

Holy mackerel. And "conspiracy theorists" are said to be delusional?!? Where have these authors been? Oh, I forgot — Harvard. (And undoubtedly obsequious ninnies on the dean's list at Harvard or elsewhere, before that.)

I don't know, I think it's ususally a bad idea to figure your enemies are ninnies just because they're wrong or even because they seem like ninnies, especially when they are openly advocating deception. These fuckers know the implications of what they are saying and how it will be perceived and they wanted this paper to be widely disseminated and easily read by a broad cross section of people of varying reading and comprehension levels. The question is why?

It's not that "they don't care" as maddy suggests, it's that they intend a specific effect, one of which has to be that they want people to take away the implication that they really are being monitored.

I did some digging around to get a better idea of what the Social Science Research Network is and I didn't really come up with much worth mentioning, but I didn't spend a whole lot of time on it (sort of hoping someone else would, someone much better at that sort of thing, at least Compared to me.)

Where the hell is Hugh on this one? He ought to be all over this like, well, like... like Hugh on psyops. The authors even mention inoculation, although only in a generic metaphor sort of way, and not in the more specifically McGuirian way, which for those so inclined could constitute a sort of hijacking. I'm still pondering what tactics and techniques the paper itself represents.

The following stats are posted alongside the abstract page for the paper:

Paper statistics

Abstract Views: 13,741
Downloads: 5,166
Download Rank: 270

That dowload rank was in the 780's last night. The downloads were in the 4,000's. The ssrn site hosts literally ten of thousands of papers, some of which are availabe in their entirety free of charge, like the one in question, which might obviously partially account for it's popularity at the moment. The paper statistics do not say whether the rankings are subdivided among pay vs non-pay.

Dr. Volin is right when they say this paper is potentially dangerous, but I think one of those dangers might be getting bogged down in a point by point analysis. I mean the paper is filled with all sorts of assumptions and distortions and it would not be hard, although it would be laborious, to go through point by point and bring those sorts of things into question. But I think it has to be assumed that the authors understood that is what conspiracy theorists would be prone to do. I'm guessing that part of what is going on here is that the reaction to this paper will be carefully monitored. I think it is part of ongoing research.

My intuition tells me this is an important developement, although complicated, and as a communtiy we ought to be all over this, and not necessarily because we take it at face value. Let's put our fucking thinking caps on here guys.

One basic questions to ask is, what effect did the authors expect/intend for this paper to have? Who did they write it for?

[Hammer of Los]

You are so right BPH.

I really want to add more to this thread but at my back I always hear etc.

[elfismiles]

Yeah, so what is the intention of this essay?

More on the author:

A Cass Sunstein Primer

Joe Wäges
Infowars.com
January 15, 2010

Most Important Sunstein Papers:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273405/Why-Groups-Go-to-Extremes-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273351/The-Right-Wing-Assault-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273265/She-Said-WHAT-He-Did-THAT-Believing-False-Rumors-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273230/Racism-and-Race-Conscious-Remedies-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273213/Is-Violent-Speech-a-Right-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273204/Ideas-Yes-Assaults-No-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273184/Climate-Change-and-Discounting-the-Future-A-Guide-for-the-Perplexed-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273197/Does-the-Supreme-Court-Matter-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25271414/The-Rights-of-Animals-A-Very-Short-Primer-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273208/Is-Capital-Punishment-Morally-Required-Acts-Ommissons-and-Life-Life-Tradeoffs-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

Some other publications By Cass R. Sunstein:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25271412/The-Paralyzing-Principle-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25271410/On-Discounting-Regulatory-Benefits-Risk-Money-and-Inter-Generational-Equity-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273188/Constitutional-Politics-and-the-Conservative-Court

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273193/Disclosure-is-the-Best-Kind-of-Credit-Regulation-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273199/Economic-Security-A-Human-Right-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273222/Lives-Years-And-Willingness-to-Pay-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273242/Remaking-Regulation-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273249/Rescuing-Politics-From-Money-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273283/The-Military-Tribunal-Debate-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273296/The-Problem-With-Predictability-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273303/The-Promise-of-Prediction-Markets-by-Cass-R-Sunsteint

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273319/The-Real-Judicial-Activists-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273337/The-Return-of-States-Right-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273368/The-Warrior-s-Tale-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25273387/Trial-Heat-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

All Published books by Cass R. Sunstein:

* Law and Happiness (The University of Chicago Press 2010) ISBN 9780226676005

* On Rumors: How Falsehoods Spread, Why We Believe Them, What Can Be Done (Macmillan Publishers 2009)

* Going to Extremes: How Like Minds Unite and Divide (Oxford University Press, 2009)

* Nudge: Improving Decisions about Health, Wealth, and Happiness with Richard Thaler (Yale University Press, 2008)

* Worst-Case Scenarios, (Harvard University Press 2007)

* Republic.com 2.0 (Princeton University Press 2007)

* Are Judges Political? An Empirical Investigation of the Federal Judiciary with David Schkade, Lisa Ellman, and Andres Sawicki, (Brookings Institution Press 2006)

* Infotopia: How Many Minds Produce Knowledge, (Oxford University Press 2006)

* The Second Bill of Rights: Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More Than Ever, (Basic Books 2006)

* Radicals in Robes: Why Extreme Right-Wing Courts Are Wrong for America (Basic Books 2005)

* Constitutional Law 5th ed. with G. Stone, L.M. Seidman, P. Karlan, and M. Tushnet, (Aspen 2005)

* The Laws of Fear: Beyond the Precautionary Principle (based on the Seeley Lectures 2004 at Cambridge University), (Cambridge University Press 2005)(Trad. esp.: Leyes de miedo, Buenos Aires/Madrid, Katz editores S.A, 2009, ISBN 9788496859616)

* The Second Bill of Rights: Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More Than Ever (Basic Books 2004)

* Why Societies Need Dissent, (Harvard University Press 2003).

* Animal Rights: Current Controversies and New Directions edited with Martha Nussbaum, (Oxford University Press 2004)

* Risk and Reason, (Cambridge University Press 2002) (Trad. esp.: Riesgo y razón, Buenos Aires/Madrid, Katz editores S.A, 2006, ISBN 8460983501)

* The Cost-Benefit State, (American Bar Association 2002)

* Punitive Damages: How Juries Decide with Reid Hastie, John Payne and David Schkade, (University of Chicago Press 2002)

* Republic.com, (Princeton University Press 2002)

* Administrative Law and Regulatory Policy with Stephen Breyer, Richard B. Stewart, and Matthew Spitzer, (1999; new edition 2002)

* Free Markets and Social Justice, (2002)

* Designing Democracy: What Constitutions Do (Oxford University Press 2001)

* The Vote: Bush, Gore & the Supreme Court with Richard Epstein, (University of Chicago Press 2001)

* Constitutional Law 4th ed. with Stone, Seidman, and Tushnet, (2001)

* Behavioral Law and Economics, (editor, Cambridge University Press 2000)

* One Case At A Time: Judicial Minimalism on the Supreme Court (Harvard University Press 1999)

* The Cost of Rights with Stephen Holmes, (1999, W.W. Norton paperback 2000)

* Clones and Clones: Facts and Fantasies About Human Cloning with Martha Nussbaum, (W.W. Norton 1998)

* Legal Reasoning and Political Conflict, (Oxford University Press 1996)

* Free Markets and Social Justice, (Oxford University Press 1997)

* Democracy and the Problem of Free Speech, (The Free Press 1993)

* The Partial Constitution, (Harvard University Press 1993)

* After the Rights Revolution: Reconceiving the Regulatory State, (Harvard University Press 1990)

* Constitutional Law, (Little, Brown & Co. 1st edition 1986; 2d edition 1991; 3d edition 1995)

* The Bill of Rights and the Modern State co-editor with Geoffey R. Stone and Richard A. Epstein, (University of Chicago Press 1992)

* Feminism and Political Theory, (editor, University of Chicago Press 1990)

http://www.infowars.com/a-cass-sunstein-primer/

Obama’s Favorite For Supreme Court Justice Sunstein Wants To Ban Guns, Free Speech

Steve Watson
Prisonplanet.com
Friday, Jan 15, 2010

Cass Sunstein, president Obama’s appointee to head the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, and the man who outlined a plan for the government to infiltrate “conspiracy groups” in order to undermine them, is in direct line for a promotion to Supreme Court Justice.

Sunstein, already in an advanced position of power in the White House as Regulatory czar, has already called for strict restrictions on gun ownership, an internet “Fairness Doctrine”, and an effective ban on free speech where dissenting opinions to those of the government are expressed.

Suntein’s name was on various shortlists to replace Justice David Souter last year following his retirement, and prior to the appointment of Sonia Sotomayor. Sunstein’s name was also touted for the Supreme Court before Obama even took office in November 2008.

His close personal relationship with Obama should set alarm bells ringing for anyone who values the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, particularly as Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, now aged 75, is likely to take retirement soon following illness, and with Justice John Paul Stevens now aged 90.

Sunstein and Obama go way back from their faculty days at the University of Chicago law school and are firm friends. Sunstein worked as an advisor to Obama during his presidential campaign and was drafted into the White House soon after Obama won the election.

As Obama’s “Information Czar”, Sunstein effectively interprets the law for the Executive. Sunstein operates in a similar, but much more elevated, role to that of former Justice Department lawyer John Yoo, who infamously re-interpreted the law to legally sanction torture under the Bush Administration.

As we highlighted in our article yesterday, Sunstein has outlined plans for the government to infiltrate “conspiracy groups”, including the 9/11 Truth Movement, in order to undermine them via postings on chat rooms and social networks, as well as real meetings.

Sunstein has effectively penned the blueprint for a Cointelpro “provocateur” style program to silence what have become the government’s most vociferous and influential critics.

The specifics of the plans must be read in full in order to gauge their extreme nature and the threat Sunstein poses to the freedom in America.

On page 14 of Sunstein’s January 2008 white paper entitled “Conspiracy Theories,” he proposed that “under imaginable conditions” the government “might ban conspiracy theorizing” and could “impose some kind of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories.”

In effect, Obama’s information czar wants to tax or ban outright, as in make illegal, opinions and ideas that the government doesn’t approve of.

Sunstein’s definition of a “conspiracy theorist” encompasses those who question manmade global warming and, most bizarrely, anyone who believes that sunlight is healthy for their bodies.

Presumably if Sunstein had been in power in the latter middle ages he would have attempted to tax and then ban the work of Galileo Galilei for subscribing to the theory that the Earth was not the centre of the universe and that it actually revolved around the Sun.

When he’s not going after those evil sunlight lovers, Sunstein advocates Internet censorship via enforced and regulated links in news pieces to opposing opinions.

Sunstein himself later retracted that proposal, explaining that it would be “too difficult to regulate [the Internet] in a way that would respond to those concerns”, and admitting that it was “almost certainly unconstitutional.”

Sunstein has also called for the re-writing of the First Amendment, and has even proposed a mandatory celebration of tax day in America.

His views on the Second Amendment have also raised serious concerns. In his book “Radicals in Robes,” he wrote: “[A]lmost all gun control legislation is constitutionally fine.”

Sunstein is on record attacking the Second Amendment. Watch in the following clip as he says “The Supreme Court has never suggested that the Second Amendment protects the individual right to have guns.”

Given his extreme actions and stated intentions, Cass Sunstein should be forced out of office and barred from practicing law with immediate effect. If president Obama has his way, however, we may very soon see his good buddy Sunstein elevated to the highest judicial position in the country.

Watch Alex Jones and Prisonplanet.com editor Paul Joseph Watson break down the threat posed by Obama’s possible next Supreme Court nominee:

VIDS AT THE LINK
http://www.infowars.com/obamas-favorite ... ee-speech/

[DoYouEverWonder]

That's so weird because I have always (possibly to the point of being tedious) compared the Big Realization that one experiences when one realizes 9/11 is a pack of lies, to when you figure out that Santa Claus doesn't exist.

This fool is saying the same things, only in reverse!

What a tool.

I would love to spit in this guy's face. Seriously. How dare he? Can you believe that shit?

(BTW thanks to whoever combined the threads. Very cool!)

At what point is one justified in thinking that government officials may not be acting in good faith? Was Sunstein on a deserted island during the Bush years?

No, he was writing legal briefs defending Bush's shredding of the Constitution.

[DrVolin]

One basic questions to ask is, what effect did the authors expect/intend for this paper to have? Who did they write it for?

Excellent questions. I don't have an answer at the moment.

[brainpanhandler]

I really want to add more to this thread but at my back I always hear etc.

I hear ya.


I'm working my way through the linked articles smiles. I want to give this sunstein a fair shake.

I found the following fairly sensible and I think it sheds light on why he used the reasoning he did to arrive at the notion of cognitive infiltration.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25271412/The-Paralyzing-Principle-by-Cass-R-Sunstein

Whether there were intended effects is entirely speculative, but there must have been at least predicted effects. A google search for the terms " conspiracy theories sunstein" returns a lot of results. A brief sampling suggests to me the libertarians and the right are positively foaming at the mouth over this guy. They've got out their torches and Ak's and are ready to go to war. The left seems underrepresented in the outrage shit storm. Those are just some cursory observations.

I'll keep thinking about this.

He can't possibly be as naive as he seems. I needed to know that he's a serious candidate for the supreme court. That informs my reading of him.

edited to fix link