No evidence of a project named "Project Monarch"

[alwyn]

not trying to side-track, but does anyone know if experiments were carried out on children at Fort Hood, TX in the early 60's?

[The Consul]

I just want to know what this means in regards to Miley Cyrus.

Miley Cyrus is a creature of CIA-Disney.
Her role is to glamorize dual identity to girls and thus make being a spook seem fun.
See 'honeypot.'

There's been heavy spook recruiting of women over the last ten years to take advantage of their more sophisticated brains and co-opt the gender gap on militarism.

A neighbor a couple of years ago his daughter came for the holidays. She had a limp and drove a beamer M6... talking with dad (who works for a milk plant) I asked what does she do? well, she works for the government, sorta. I mean its a company that is not really a company kind of thing. And we joked about a local pizza place that we had previously decided was a front for laundering money by Albanian gangsters. He said, well yeah, something like that only it's whole governments and something happened to her in Oman and she hasn't yet regained all the feeling below her left knee yet. Heh heh heh. But she's moving up in the company. Yeah, I said, sounds like she's made her bones. A Valerie Plame in the making, perhaps. Elegant, sleek, world wise...pistol in her purse playing in The Great Game. Travel, intrigue, romance, torture, murder, mayhem and massacres...

[nathan28]

nathan, I can hardly believe that you're serious, but I'll give a serious reply anyways.

If the pieces of evidence make the picture that they seem to, then past and ongoing mind control experiments by both governmental and corporate agencies are a horrific black op with few peers. These operations seem to target the most innocent and blameless amongst us, and violate the most fundamental rights a sentient being possesses.

I'm not sure what a "witting Manchurian candidate" would be. The whole point of such a process is that the subject is unwitting.

I am asking you why it is wrong. It is very clear to me that it is. It is exactly what you said, unwitting. I called that a species of torture, because I refused to believe in science fiction scenarios, and because I believe the same ethos that permits someone to engage in "Black psychiatry" (Like Fanon? seriously) has manifested indisputably with the the Bush "Interrogation" policy--which is now the apparent springboard of every fascistic policy of assassination and secret war Obama signs off on. I was told that pointing to this connection was not acceptable, because, somehow, MC is "more" than torture, as if torture isn't the issue. As far as I can gather it doesn't matter if the victim is "innocent" or not, but rather that the choice of innocent 'subjects' only shows the depravity involved.

[Project Willow]

I see you've posted again, but I'm going to go ahead and respond to your earlier post because I need to say what I was going to say there.

Are you calling for moderation because you believe my argument is unacceptable?

No one denied it existed. But I see no reason to validate something reliant from the start on torture. "Trauma-based mind control". "Enhanced interrogation." "Ticking time bomb." To claim it is "science" is to mystify the actual forces, intentions and results involved and to validate the narrative of the torturers.

I thought we were discussing the technological aspects of mind control until you shifted the sands there in applying your own private meta-belief as some sort of universal absolute. No, Nathan, my knowledge and experience of mind control does not conform to your personal philosophy as to science, or naming or, more than likely, torture. Surprisingly, I define for myself my own experience.

Science is a tool that to me carries no inherent value, it can be used for good, ill, all things in between, and probably up and down. In exact opposition to your beliefs, to deny its role in perfecting the level of control and the extreme limits and effectiveness of torture techniques is to deny a central part of the victim's experience and the methodical sadism of the perpetrators. I would use the term validation for the opposite purpose, understanding how it works validates the survivor's experience.

Now maybe I'll look to your more recent points, although it appears you're arguing with a phantom again, though this topic engenders that sort of thing.

[operator kos]

To be very, very clear, I do not believe in the existence of some black magic charismatic secret animal magnetism hypnosis power that will let anyone at any time so much as walk up to someone, destroy their will and implant some hidden command with a trigger instantly, or something similar.

I don't believe anyone here has made such a suggestion. There is, however, a possibility that someone who has been extensively conditioned could respond instantaneously in a variety of ways to a predetermined trigger.

But specific psychiatric techniques that are not centered on pain or isolation, either physical or otherwise and including without doubt sexual violence, are not inherently evil. If you think that there is something generically wrong with, say, attempting to change memory, you should start lobbying against any treatment of PTSD.

That is pure sophistry. Treatment for PTSD involves coping with the emotional content of a memory, not trying to blot it out.

Of course these things can be abused. But they are not intrinsically evil. I've used a number of the things that I've seen condemned as the vehicles of mind control on myself and will inform you the devil himself did not show up and the local Satanists' Dog-Sacrificers' Exchange did not mail me a membership card.

Who do you think you're talking to on this board? We aren't a bunch of Christian Fundies. Many people here, including myself, have experimented with various forms of mysticism/meditation/self-exploration. These things can be quite useful or, as you point out, they can be used to alter others' minds against their will. But many aspects of mind control ARE intrinsically evil. In no context is the sexual abuse of a child a good thing.

3. This leads me to say that the grounds for looking into the persistence of any mind control program are not survivor narratives, but first the widely-accepted reality of the events at Gitmo, Bagram and elsewhere, which ape the Artichoke/MK Ultra projects, *then* the glut of survivor narratives, which would suggest that there has been either renewed interest in more esoteric mind control, or that it never in fact ended.

I don't follow your reasoning. Focusing on the abuse of GWOT detainees, horrible and unacceptable as it is, seems like a limited hangout with something which has already been made public. I myself appear in public on a regular basis, dressed in an orange jumpsuit with a black bag over my head, to remind people that this is going on. But the widespread ongoing experimentation with mind control is a bigger problem by orders of magnitude, and delegating further research into it to second place doesn't make sense.

In conclusion, I apologize if this post seems crabby or nitpicky. I am tired. I appreciate your clarifications, even though I continue to look at the situation differently.

[Project Willow]

2. There is, however, very salient manifestation of a program, or policy umbrella or both, involving torture and the use of psychiatrists. As far as I am concerned subjecting someone to thirty hours of sensory deprivation, to disorienting drugs or to razor blades as part of GWOT serves to do nothing more than cause pain, restrict their world to that pain. Even if some advanced psychiatric theory informs this, the intent and ends are the same as tying someone to a chair and beating them.

That is simply not true. Sensory deprivation produces different psychological and physical impacts than drugging or physical beatings.

3. I'm going to suggest that you would need someone to compile narratives and find elements that remain constant and can't be traced to specific works of fiction--like "Monarch," WHICH MARK PHILLIPS ADMITTED HE MADE UP.

I want to correct the record here and state that the source alluded to in the OP is NOT Phillips. As far as I can make out, Phillips tried to own it after the other source had published. The other source, whom I won't name because I am following Albarelli's lead, expressed regret. It appears that it was a mistake, from what anyone can tell it was not initially intended as deliberate disinfo. Who knows, maybe Phillips was the other source's source?

..........

Nathan after reading the rest of what you wrote, I can only conclude that either you haven't actually read any survivor accounts, which your referencing of the radiation hearing testimony belies, or something else entirely is going on. Your rhetoric displays a profound lack of understanding of mind control. I don't want to offend you, but it's like you literally cannot imagine it, and you're too smart for that.



Mind control is the application of operant conditioning onto dissociative reactions that feature amnesia. The role of torture in that process is to aid in the creation of dissociative reactions and as a form of punishment in the reward/punishment system. If we go to Albarelli's article:

"We need to also explore the 'subtle' means of making an individual say or do things he would normally not consider through the use of covertly administered drugs, 'Black Psychiatry'*, hypnosis, and brain damaging processes.

Brain damaging processes, the effect of amnesia after a blow to the head. Although hypnosis, drugs, and every other mind altering method was studied for its possible uses, dissociation, a naturally occurring response to overwhelming experiences fit the bill for creating amnesia quite well. Because of the amnesia, the conditioning operates on a subconscious level, what might feel like a spontaneous impulse can in fact be conditioned behavior.

Ten years ago we'd be discussing Estabrooks who bragged about using hypnosis to create a split personality during WWII. Regardless of all efforts to keep it under cover, the evidence, apparently, continues to mount.

Interesting research side note.. Estabrooks worked with Morton Prince at Harvard doing research on telepathy. Morton Prince was an innovator in the study of dissociation who published one the earliest case studies of DID.

[The Consul]

Torture is a component of mind control, but it is not the whole.

The evidence of this seems crystal clear, so I wholeheartedly agree.

Torture is one component of trauma-based mind control; it is certainly not the whole of the multifaceted subject of mind control.

Then someone is going to have to explain to me beyond the use of coerced or forced experimental subjects, and the military milieu aimed at assassination, what is so pernicious about "mind control" and why it warrants my condemnation. Because without torture or broader lack of consent, and without the aim to create "Manchurian Candidates"--all I see is a fetishistic witchcraft accusation aimed at drugs, psychotronics and 'manual' techniques like hypnosis. At present what I know about the mind control program is that the use of forced or unwitting subjects and the use of torture have always been present in it. It is no longer "mind control" if it leaves those behind--then it is psychiatric research into memory.

I'm willing to permit that there may be some black-magic military complex that taps the secrets of the human psyche in order to control people. But the only present-day events that seem to line up with the mind control research are the torture sites. I cannot think of any recent prominent assassinations. I am not able to think of what other purposes a witting Manchurian candidate might serve.

Well Mohamed/Malvo is a quick spring to mind. Have to remember that part of what MK-Ultra was about was born of a paranoid race with the Russians who were "light years" ahead of us in terms of psychic realms. The CIA envied Russian ability to have total vertical control of information and stifle dissent. They admired Stalin. Remember these guys used to go to the little farms ubran dwellers took their kids to during christmas and spiked the fresh milk with acid just so they could observe what the effects of LSD-25 would be on an unsuspecting family. I mean, these fuckers wanted to weaponize the Frisbee for chrissakes! They are capable of anything! Most of what we know about MK-Ultra was because of the way that Colby used the "slippery slope" argument to legitimize the unthinkable. Initially he was scorned by his peer spooks but he had a grand strategy. Unlike the Soviets he knew the secret was not the total control of what can or can't be known, in a "free society" you need something more. The ability to keep stuff secret while it is happening and the ability to muddy the waters as the truth leaks out. It was inevitable that MK-Ultra would leak but the fact that Colby engaged in it suggests that strategically MK-Ultra could have been used as a diversion in the Church Committee. It was a roll of the die. He knew congress did not have the balls to do more than tie the cia down with red tape.
The US intelligence agencies are in the business of exploring the unthinkable. Mind control is not all about assasination. It is about experimentation and weilding mass population control without religion in some areas and with it in others. With the press in some facets and without it in others. Pretty soon the controllers themselves are perfectly programmed like they are now. In other words, Allen Dulles does not have to take acid twice a month now because of his Rasputin complex. The kool aid is everywhere and everyone is drinking it.

[Simulist]

What is "so pernicious about mind control" is that skillful-enough people are able to cause other people to do things they would not normally do, things that are sometimes inconsistent with their better judgment and best interests, and some of these things are potentially harmful to those people and/or destructive to others.

Although torture has been used as one means of shaping a psyche for this, it is by no means the only means available. Hypnosis also appears to be a far more able tool than most people have been led to believe, or realize. What follows is a declassified CIA document, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act; I have taken the liberty of transcribing it verbatim, and attaching a facsimile of it to this post.

A/B, 3, 2/18

To: File

Subject: Hypnotic Experimentation and Research, 10 February 1954


On Wednesday, 10 February 1954, hypnotic experimentation and research work was continued in Building 13 by Mr. [blacked out] using the following subjects: Misses [blacked out] and [blacked out].

The group of five subjects appeared on schedule. The operator expecting only three subjects, namely Misses [blacked out] and [blacked out] was forced to alter his plans somewhat due to the unexpected arrival of two more subjects.

Plans were originally made to conduct experiments in color blindness, blindness and intoxication. These plans were altered to permit first, the subjects to present questions and discussions. (This was to permit the operator to spot any subjects who were critically analyzing their progress.) Several questions were presented and promptly clarified to the satisfaction of the subjects. In this discussion it was obvious that Misses [blacked out] and [blacked out] were beginning to lose confidence in themselves. From this point on the work proceeded as follows:

1. A posthypnotic of the night before (pointed finger, you will sleep) was enacted. Misses [blacked out] and [blacked out] immediately progressed to a deep hypnotic state with no further suggestion. This was to test whether the mere carrying out of the posthypnotic would produce the state of hypnosis desired. Needless to say, it did.

2. Miss [blacked out] was then instructed (having previously expressed a fear of firearms in any fashion) that she would use every method at her disposal to awaken Miss [blacked out] (now in a deep hypnotic sleep) and failing this, she would pick up a pistol nearby and fire it at Miss [blacked out]. She was instructed that her rage would be so great that she would not hesitate to “kill” [blacked out] for failing to awaken. Miss [blacked out] carried out these suggestions to the letter including firing the (unloaded pneumatic pistol) gun at [blacked out] and then proceeding to fall into a deep sleep. After proper suggestions were made, both were awakened and expressed complete amnesia for the entire sequence. Miss [blacked out] was again handed the gun, which she refused (in an awakened state) to pick up or accept from the operator. She expressed absolute denial that the foregoing sequence had happened.

If it turns out that there are people who do not find the implications of this declassified document troubling, then they are of course entitled to their opinions. I absolutely do find the implications of this troubling, pernicious, and potentially deadly.

How frequently have these abilities to alter memory and to control minds been used in the past, and how often and in what ways are they utilized today?

It also occurs to me that this document is dated February 10, 1954. If this sort of thing were possible in those days, then just what is possible now?

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Re: "Project Monarch" as turning children into 'Manchurian Candidates.'

After studying decades of covert project names and their skewed relation to the actual projects, I suspect that
the real name for this brutal process of trauma/dissociation/desensitization is...a homonym of "Monarch" and does not conjure up that almost romantic caterpillar-to-butterfly transformation image.

Try instead - "Project Menarche."
As in...first blood.



Two other decoys of this CIA project referring to Little Nemo, the old comic strip about a little boy who goes on fantasy adventures at night, distributed just before the 8/1977 Senate hearings on MKULTRA:

6/25/76


5/1/77


Ron Goulart's 1977 CIA-commissioned decoy novel, 'Nemo' about being programmed as a child to be a government assassin... became a historic liability and itself got decoyed by CIA-Disney in 2003. Note the graphics
for the title, "Nemo":

This animation featured a female with terrible memory loss, a protagonist with a "bad fin," centered on "Sydney," and included a holding tank. All elements of MKULTRA electro-shock and Sydney Gottlieb.

I could list quite a few CIA media decoys of this program going back to the 1950s when CIA contaminated the medical literature on schizophrenia with a decoy book because they were testing mind control on schizophrenics.

[Nordic]

Gosh, Hugh, you're right, this has been going on for generations!

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

Gee, Nordic, word association works after all! Your point?

Get a copy of Ron Goulart's 'Nemo.' Like other spook-requisitioned lit, it's full of decoy materials. There's stuff on the 1964 CIA coup in Brazil, too. Some docs had just come out in 12/76.
Oh! That coup was against a guy named...Goulart. Just like the author, Ron Goulart! Such a coincidence.
I know more about the author than I'll post here.

That 'alien abduction' crap is really cover for breaking into bedrooms to use gas, drugs, hypnosis, etc.
for experiments and getting control of victim's minds/lives.

That's why the early-1900s image of 'Little Nemo in Slumberland' was evoked as a sci-fi allusion just a few months before the Senate hearings on MKULTRA. Just in case the child-brainwashing thing came out. But it didn't.



Plot of 'The Omen' with US government references and some negative framing of JFK, too-

".....the childhood of Damien Thorn who was switched at birth in Rome with the stillborn child of a wealthy United States Ambassador to the United Kingdom who had the ambition of being the President of the United States.
.....
The last scene is of Damien holding the hand of the U.S. President. Damien turns around and gives an ominous smile."

[Peregrine]

This animation featured a female with terrible memory loss, a protagonist with a "bad fin," centered on "Sydney," and included a holding tank. All elements of MKULTRA electro-shock and Sydney Gottlieb.

Now that, Mr. Hugh, is interesting. I've seen that kid's movie countless times, as I have a little one, plus neices & nephews, who enjoy this flick. I can see that.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

This animation featured a female with terrible memory loss, a protagonist with a "bad fin," centered on "Sydney," and included a holding tank. All elements of MKULTRA electro-shock and Sydney Gottlieb.

Now that, Mr. Hugh, is interesting. I've seen that kid's movie countless times, as I have a little one, plus neices & nephews, who enjoy this flick. I can see that.

Count how many times females are portrayed as dangerous to survival.
Count how many times males are portrayed as child protector.

Exactly the opposite of real life. And the reason for this ubiquitous National Insecurity State propaganda theme mean to bolster cohesion around male military culture.

I forgot to mention the non-child-friendly repetition of an acronym for East Australian Current that sounds very much like "CIA." The "EAC."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Australian_Current

.....
In the 2003 animated Pixar / Disney film Finding Nemo, the EAC is portrayed as a super highway that fish and sea turtles use to travel down the east coast of East Australia. The characters Marlin and Dory join a group of sea turtles, including Crush and his son Squirt in using the EAC to help them travel to Sydney Harbour so they can rescue Marlin's son, Nemo.
.....

[Joe Hillshoist]

This animation featured a female with terrible memory loss, a protagonist with a "bad fin," centered on "Sydney," and included a holding tank. All elements of MKULTRA electro-shock and Sydney Gottlieb.

Now that, Mr. Hugh, is interesting. I've seen that kid's movie countless times, as I have a little one, plus neices & nephews, who enjoy this flick. I can see that.

Count how many times females are portrayed as dangerous to survival.
Count how many times males are portrayed as child protector.

Exactly the opposite of real life. And the reason for this ubiquitous National Insecurity State propaganda theme mean to bolster cohesion around male military culture.

I forgot to mention the non-child-friendly repetition of an acronym for East Australian Current that sounds very much like "CIA." The "EAC."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Australian_Current

.....
In the 2003 animated Pixar / Disney film Finding Nemo, the EAC is portrayed as a super highway that fish and sea turtles use to travel down the east coast of East Australia. The characters Marlin and Dory join a group of sea turtles, including Crush and his son Squirt in using the EAC to help them travel to Sydney Harbour so they can rescue Marlin's son, Nemo.
.....

I think I should make you clean the coffee out of my nostrils and off my keyboard.

[Peregrine]

The EAC sounding like CIA is a bit of a stretch... but the other stuff is interesting.