MinM wrote:Speaking of linking to provocative thread titles.
82_28 wrote:Oh come on C2W. I know what MinM meant -- I am a huge ass NBA fan and Artest's statement was fucking weird. Artest is fucking weird. The fact that the fucking Lakers win the championship year in year out is also weird. The amount of his/her archived contributions here show that all he/she is showing you something. I found it interesting. We're talking WEIRDNESS here, not racism. Mind Control!!! That's the topic and I think MinM did nothing out of any racial bias whatsoever...
Thanks 82_28

there certainly was no malicious intent on my part. Given the history of this board, with the Stormfront crowd and their ilk, I probably should have been more sensitive to that. But I usually lump matters of Race and Religion together, as issues used cynically to achieve other goals, so a red flag pops up in my mind when someone tries to break things down in those terms. My prejudices tend to be of a more personal and visceral nature.
Perhaps I misunderstand you, but I don't really know how to read that as meaning anything other than that you feel visceral personal animosity towards individuals whom you perceive as your opponents.
Which doesn't exactly come across as reassuringly high-minded to me, in context, to be honest with you. So please know that if you've got a problem with me, you should tell me. If it's even a little bit legitimate, I'll go all out to correct it. As I believe my long history on the board makes plain, I'd rather be told what my faults are so that I can try to amend them than continue to err against others unknowingly.
Though of course, if you actually
do mean simply to let me and the forum know that while you're no racist, you do enjoy nurturing and pursuing visceral personal prejudices against other individuals....Well. Forewarned is forearmed, I guess.
And....I'm at least half-kidding about the second part of the above, as I hope you know. My main point is: If I've done wrong by you, please tell me. Because I'd like to make it up to you if I can.
Ron Artest and the other 2 guys pictured in my previous post, that caused some consternation, are good examples of my personal prejudices. By all accounts Ron Artest and the late Dock Ellis are/were for the most part good guys who have both struggled with personal demons. I tend to be a sucker for those stories. And even Tiger Woods, who really does not appear to be a good guy, inevitably I'll find myself rooting for him too.
On the other hand, at some gut level, I can't stand Phil Jackson...
Because Phil Jackson is the devil incarnate. I'm totally with you on that one. When he was coaching the Knicks, I used to shudder every time the camera turned to him. He always looks like he's on the point of metamorphosing into some kind of giant white slug or larval-stage insect or something else mildly repulsive (in appearance!) along those general pale and slimy lines.
And again! I
know, right?????
BTW to all concerned, I have stopped beating my wife and kids, which was made easier by the fact that I never started...
Although I did allow my daughters to take Dance Lessons.

Please believe me when I say sincerely and from the heart that if I had seriously thought you were posting racist material with racist intentions -- or if I'd even had any reason to think so -- I would have said exactly that, straight out and without disguise.
But I didn't think so. No personal accusations of prejudice on your part were intended by me, nor -- at least as far as I could see -- expressed or implied by me. I thought your post looked very offensively racist. I didn't think you were at all likely to be aware of that precisely because I didn't think you were at all likely to have intended to give that appearance. I therefore spoke up on the subject, somewhat sharply but without personal rancor, as one who was more or less saying: "Check yourself, dude. Because it looks to me like you were more carelesss than it's okay to be on that one."
As I'll now go on to say for the third time, one reason that seemed acceptable to me is that I personally wouldn't have been offended had such a remark been addressed to me. On the contrary, I would have appreciated it. However, maybe I'm the exception rather than the rule that way, in addition to being excessively hyper-sensitive to the appearance of racism. Just to be on the safe side, I guess that from now on, I'll do my best to rigorously self-monitor my posts on both of those scores in order to err on the side of caution in future rather than risk re-offending in the event that all the fault is entirely and one hundred percent on my side.
I'm very sorry that you felt accused of racism. I completely and totally and emphatically agree with you that such an accusation would have been (and would be) both unjust and unmerited.
I thought (and while not sure, believe that I still think) that I was pretty clearly not making one. But what do I know? It is -- as I think we all agree -- a very sensitive issue and therefore one that inevitably comes with quite a bit of room for miscommunication fully
en suite. So maybe what I wrote wasn't as plainly confined to the issue of appearances as I thought it was. Whatever the case, I truly regret your having been hurt by what I wrote, and fully accept 100 per cent of the blame for all ills and woes caused by the fifty per cent of any two-way communication on this thread for which I rightly own all responsibility.
I hope it is now totally clear that I was not calling you a racist. but rather -- and quite possibly wrongly -- stating that in my opinion and to my eyes your post had an inadvertent but nevertheless very unfortunate and very troubling racist appearance. However, from my perspective -- and I'm pretty sure objectively speaking -- that's just my opinion. And it doesn't implicate you personally in anything. IOW: I was expressing my view of something, rather than attributing that or any other view to you.
It's nice to hear you speak up. Here's hoping visceral personal prejudices haven't already been activated or, failing that, if they have that they've now been forestalled.
I mean, it's not like we have no common ground at all here. You and I can get together and dislike Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant. You and 82_28 can hang out and not beat your wives together. It's like a beautiful dream, really, what with all the good will and openness. So let's not squander it. That's what I say.
Also, once again: If you feel that I was out of line, please say so in the frankest and nastiest term you feel justified in using. As long as you say it straightforwardly and honestly, I won't fault you for it. I'm here to listen, not just to speak. And I'm wrong about things all the time. So I welcome any and all riot acts that anybody feels like reading me.
I mean, I'm definitely not a big fan of ambiguous, vague and ominous subtextual shot-taking, personally. But for all I know, there hasn't been any. Because obviously, that's kind of permanently true by definition in light of the vague, ambiguous, and subtextual nature of such things. Which is why I'm not a big fan of them.
Anyway. Since I can't tell if you have a problem with me or not unless you say so, please consider this my best attempt to apologize for whatever problems with me you might have to the best of my ability to imagine them from your point of view without knowing you.
Because I really am sincerely sorry to have done [whatever out-of-line thing it is I may have done but am in no position to identify without the assistance of third parties such as yourself]. And if I have done those things, I very much hope to learn of them from you so that I can apologize to you more meaningfully and more feelingly.
Okay? I hope so.
Now please carry on.