Tiger Woods : Mind control subject ?

[Belligerent Savant]

For chrissakes, please stop being so thin-skinned, unclutch your pearls and get off the fainting couch, you all.

It was not an attack or an accusation. It was an observation.

It seems from your statements below it was YOU that was being thin-skinned and making bold presumptions about the intent of a poster [MinM], who, as 82_28 alluded, has shown no prior history of racist-tinged commentary:

please allow me to clue you in:

It's very grossly and offensively racist in appearance. Vilely so, one might even say.

And personally, if that were applicable to one of my posts, I'd want to know it. So I'm telling you.

"grossly and offensively racist in appearance"? "vilely so", no less... quite egregious, I'd say.

Of course, we were then subjected to yet another lengthy and self-indulgent retort, further clarifying your intent, etc etc.

So all is good now in the world of RI...

[mentalgongfu2]

The video from which the OP clip is taken makes a lot of wild claims, but provides no evidence or attribution to back them up. My conclusion upon viewing it is there is zero credibility.

[compared2what?]

Speaking of linking to provocative thread titles.

Oh come on C2W. I know what MinM meant -- I am a huge ass NBA fan and Artest's statement was fucking weird. Artest is fucking weird. The fact that the fucking Lakers win the championship year in year out is also weird. The amount of his/her archived contributions here show that all he/she is showing you something. I found it interesting. We're talking WEIRDNESS here, not racism. Mind Control!!! That's the topic and I think MinM did nothing out of any racial bias whatsoever...

Thanks 82_28 there certainly was no malicious intent on my part. Given the history of this board, with the Stormfront crowd and their ilk, I probably should have been more sensitive to that. But I usually lump matters of Race and Religion together, as issues used cynically to achieve other goals, so a red flag pops up in my mind when someone tries to break things down in those terms. My prejudices tend to be of a more personal and visceral nature.

Perhaps I misunderstand you, but I don't really know how to read that as meaning anything other than that you feel visceral personal animosity towards individuals whom you perceive as your opponents.

Which doesn't exactly come across as reassuringly high-minded to me, in context, to be honest with you. So please know that if you've got a problem with me, you should tell me. If it's even a little bit legitimate, I'll go all out to correct it. As I believe my long history on the board makes plain, I'd rather be told what my faults are so that I can try to amend them than continue to err against others unknowingly.

Though of course, if you actually do mean simply to let me and the forum know that while you're no racist, you do enjoy nurturing and pursuing visceral personal prejudices against other individuals....Well. Forewarned is forearmed, I guess.

And....I'm at least half-kidding about the second part of the above, as I hope you know. My main point is: If I've done wrong by you, please tell me. Because I'd like to make it up to you if I can.

Ron Artest and the other 2 guys pictured in my previous post, that caused some consternation, are good examples of my personal prejudices. By all accounts Ron Artest and the late Dock Ellis are/were for the most part good guys who have both struggled with personal demons. I tend to be a sucker for those stories. And even Tiger Woods, who really does not appear to be a good guy, inevitably I'll find myself rooting for him too.

On the other hand, at some gut level, I can't stand Phil Jackson...

Because Phil Jackson is the devil incarnate. I'm totally with you on that one. When he was coaching the Knicks, I used to shudder every time the camera turned to him. He always looks like he's on the point of metamorphosing into some kind of giant white slug or larval-stage insect or something else mildly repulsive (in appearance!) along those general pale and slimy lines.

Dave Zirin: Boycott Phil Jackson: Why Lakers Fans Should Root for Los Suns

or Kobe Bryant, for that matter.

And again! I know, right?????

BTW to all concerned, I have stopped beating my wife and kids, which was made easier by the fact that I never started...

Although I did allow my daughters to take Dance Lessons.

Please believe me when I say sincerely and from the heart that if I had seriously thought you were posting racist material with racist intentions -- or if I'd even had any reason to think so -- I would have said exactly that, straight out and without disguise.

But I didn't think so. No personal accusations of prejudice on your part were intended by me, nor -- at least as far as I could see -- expressed or implied by me. I thought your post looked very offensively racist. I didn't think you were at all likely to be aware of that precisely because I didn't think you were at all likely to have intended to give that appearance. I therefore spoke up on the subject, somewhat sharply but without personal rancor, as one who was more or less saying: "Check yourself, dude. Because it looks to me like you were more carelesss than it's okay to be on that one."

As I'll now go on to say for the third time, one reason that seemed acceptable to me is that I personally wouldn't have been offended had such a remark been addressed to me. On the contrary, I would have appreciated it. However, maybe I'm the exception rather than the rule that way, in addition to being excessively hyper-sensitive to the appearance of racism. Just to be on the safe side, I guess that from now on, I'll do my best to rigorously self-monitor my posts on both of those scores in order to err on the side of caution in future rather than risk re-offending in the event that all the fault is entirely and one hundred percent on my side.

I'm very sorry that you felt accused of racism. I completely and totally and emphatically agree with you that such an accusation would have been (and would be) both unjust and unmerited.

I thought (and while not sure, believe that I still think) that I was pretty clearly not making one. But what do I know? It is -- as I think we all agree -- a very sensitive issue and therefore one that inevitably comes with quite a bit of room for miscommunication fully en suite. So maybe what I wrote wasn't as plainly confined to the issue of appearances as I thought it was. Whatever the case, I truly regret your having been hurt by what I wrote, and fully accept 100 per cent of the blame for all ills and woes caused by the fifty per cent of any two-way communication on this thread for which I rightly own all responsibility.

I hope it is now totally clear that I was not calling you a racist. but rather -- and quite possibly wrongly -- stating that in my opinion and to my eyes your post had an inadvertent but nevertheless very unfortunate and very troubling racist appearance. However, from my perspective -- and I'm pretty sure objectively speaking -- that's just my opinion. And it doesn't implicate you personally in anything. IOW: I was expressing my view of something, rather than attributing that or any other view to you.

It's nice to hear you speak up. Here's hoping visceral personal prejudices haven't already been activated or, failing that, if they have that they've now been forestalled.

I mean, it's not like we have no common ground at all here. You and I can get together and dislike Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant. You and 82_28 can hang out and not beat your wives together. It's like a beautiful dream, really, what with all the good will and openness. So let's not squander it. That's what I say.

Also, once again: If you feel that I was out of line, please say so in the frankest and nastiest term you feel justified in using. As long as you say it straightforwardly and honestly, I won't fault you for it. I'm here to listen, not just to speak. And I'm wrong about things all the time. So I welcome any and all riot acts that anybody feels like reading me.

I mean, I'm definitely not a big fan of ambiguous, vague and ominous subtextual shot-taking, personally. But for all I know, there hasn't been any. Because obviously, that's kind of permanently true by definition in light of the vague, ambiguous, and subtextual nature of such things. Which is why I'm not a big fan of them.

Anyway. Since I can't tell if you have a problem with me or not unless you say so, please consider this my best attempt to apologize for whatever problems with me you might have to the best of my ability to imagine them from your point of view without knowing you.

Because I really am sincerely sorry to have done [whatever out-of-line thing it is I may have done but am in no position to identify without the assistance of third parties such as yourself]. And if I have done those things, I very much hope to learn of them from you so that I can apologize to you more meaningfully and more feelingly.

Okay? I hope so.

Now please carry on.

[82_28]

I happen to really, really like Phil Jackson's voice. (J/K) Other than that I hate him as well as I do the "Lake Show".

Don't even get me started on my own personal conspiracy theory as to how the Celtics and Lakers got matched up again this year. The Lakers being perpetually "good" beggars belief, in a supposedly "competitive" league. I've been saying to Laker fans and friends I know: "Aren't you fucking sick of the Lakers yet?"

But, hint: The theory hinges on LeBron James going to the Knicks or Bulls next season (Big, big markets need big, big advertising -- LeBron's the man if there ever was one). Perhaps we can all go into that later.

[compared2what?]

For chrissakes, please stop being so thin-skinned, unclutch your pearls and get off the fainting couch, you all.

It was not an attack or an accusation. It was an observation.

It seems from your statements below it was YOU that was being thin-skinned and making bold presumptions about the intent of a poster [MinM], who, as 82_28 alluded, has shown no prior history of racist-tinged commentary:

please allow me to clue you in:

It's very grossly and offensively racist in appearance. Vilely so, one might even say.

And personally, if that were applicable to one of my posts, I'd want to know it. So I'm telling you.

"grossly and offensively racist in appearance"? "vilely so", no less... quite egregious, I'd say.

Of course, we were then subjected to yet another lengthy and self-indulgent retort, further clarifying your intent, etc etc.

So all is good now in the world of RI...

What part of my commenting on the appearance of something in terms that do not attribute intent to the poster one way or the other, accompanied by the plain acknowledgment ("allow me to clue you in") that I believe that poster to be unaware of those appearances strikes you as a "bold presumption" on my part about that poster's intent?

Also: Self-indulgent? I was fucking clarifying the same misunderstanding that you've now been the fourth or fifth poster to insist on clinging to, in the interests of making it clear that I was not attacking others, in order that they not be unnecessarily hurt or distressed by my remarks.

In my world, that's known as consideration for others and the taking of personal responsibility. I'm sorry to have subjected you to what your world evidently regards as self-indulgence, but I honestly had no idea I was doing that. I guess I'm just not too familiar with the customs there.

Finally: Don't read my posts if they're too tryingly lengthy for you. I write them to do justice to what I'm trying to say by my standards and to the best of my ability in good faith. I don't plan on doing otherwise, and wouldn't want to even if I could.

Incidentally, not only would I very much appreciate it if any future posters who want to take a shot at me that's already been taken by several others and for which I've already answered several times would be kind enough to accommodate my preference for being accused of doing stuff that I've actually done, but insofar as it would greatly reduce the lengthiness of my responses and the extent to which they drag the thread off-topic, it would be a service to the community that way, too.

Other than that: Thanks for your feedback, BS. The debate may not have been at all enhanced or expanded in any way by your contribution to it, but at least it was pithy.

And yes, I'm being bitchy. But you're fucking personally attacking me on very little basis, apparently for the sheer sport of the thing, as far as I can understand what you're saying. However, if I'm overlooking something you intended to say that didn't quite make it into the words you posted or the literal plain meaning conveyed by them, please do let me know.

Thanks.

[82_28]

And yeah, getting back to the subject. What was up with that "Rise and Fall of Tiger Woods" video? I watched it last night. I found it compelling, but phony on a number of too convenient levels. It was presented like some kind of Adam Curtis documentary, only bankrolled by a Rupert Murdoch owned entity. Was that aired on SkyNews? That's Murdoch right?

My tell was that they interviewed that one Vegas girl while wearing her lingerie -- like she had just gotten off work and was willing to give a little time to the reporter. The credibility of the presentation was knocked down at least 50% for me once I realized that. It was too contrived by half.

[Belligerent Savant]

.

And yes, I'm being bitchy. But you're fucking personally attacking me on very little basis, apparently for the sheer sport of the thing, as far as I can understand what you're saying. However, if I'm overlooking something you intended to say that didn't quite make it into the words you posted or the literal plain meaning conveyed by them, please do let me know.

Thanks.

You're correct: I should have refrained from commenting as it was already apparently addressed by the time I chimed in, so for that, I slap myself on the wrist.

...your dramatics tend to be a bit heavy-handed at times, but who am I to criticize? I don't commit nearly as much time/energy to this forum and would be better off going back to merely observing...

[Nordic]

Why would anybody hate Phil Jackson? I'm only a Lakers fan because of him, really (and I live in Los Angeles I suppose ...). The guy is a Buddhist. He has an incredible gift for managing unruly groups of huge-ego, highly paid narcissistic celebrities. The guy's got a magic touch. Who else could have tamed Dennis Rodman those last couple of seasons with the Bulls?

As someone who has to manage people (when I work, which hasn't been much lately), I am astounded at his abilities. He almost never loses his shit, and when things are looking godawful he sits there totally calm. Then he'll do some outrageous stuff sometimes, like pull all his starters out of the game, even when they're losing, just to shake things up. The guy's fearless.

That being said, the Lakers do have, I think, the most talent and size of any team in the NBA and the only reason I'm surprised they won this year is because they seem pretty lackadaisical about it all. They blew so many leads this year it was ridiculous. Their desire leaves something to be desired.

And Ron Artest won that game for them. It would most definitely be Celtics 2010 champs if it weren't for Artest in that last game.

[Laodicean]

What Nordic said.

And to question how the Lakers and Celtics could be so good year after year... The answer should be pretty obvious. All you have to do is count the championship banners that hang from the rafters. The Lakers and Celtics are the NBA's elite teams, always has been.

[compared2what?]

...your dramatics tend to be a bit heavy-handed at times, but who am I to criticize? I don't commit nearly as much time/energy to this forum and would be better off going back to merely observing...

I'm sorry to say that's just my personality. Especially since I have to live with it all the time.

But no worries, and please do not feel that you should not have spoken. I seek to encourage more speaking, not more self-censorship.

Also, absent anyone having a problem they need to bring up to me, I will now toss my feather boa over one shoulder, pick up my soapbox and exit (silently but as ostentatiously as possible) from the thread, leaving it free to proceed on-topic without further boring fighting by and about FABULOUS me.

[Simulist]

That Tiger Woods can't remember significant portions of some tournaments is very disturbing; hearing him say that in his own words was actually riveting.

Here's what Wikipedia says about Tiger's father, Earl:

Woods served two combat tours during the Vietnam War, the second with the elite United States Army Special Forces.[2] A Defense Information School graduate, Lieutenant Colonel Woods was assigned as an instructor of Military Science & Tactics, (Army ROTC) at the City College of New York for several years. He retired from the military in 1974.[6] He then moved to southern California, and resumed working in a new career path, as an agent for corporations involved in defense industry contracting.

There may actually be something to this.

(And if so, then I'll feel a lot more compassion for Tiger Woods than I was able to muster before.)

[semper occultus]

agree it was sort of tabloid Adam Curtis ( although nothing to do with Murdoch BTW ) but zero credibilty is over-doing it a bit surely

McCormack's IMG corporation really creeped me out & seemed just as sinister & malign a presence in Wood's story as any programmer from his youth - its like they just took him over - even assigning some personal "handler" character to keep the golf-programme running bug-free

regardless of the MC angle ( which - sadly - I don't find at all incredible ) I don't see how anyone can feel anything other than that there was something deeply wrong about the nature of Woods up-bringing - a tragic re-run of Michael Jackson except involving sports & strippers instead of music & kids

[Simulist]

regardless of the MC angle ( which - sadly - I don't find at all incredible ) I don't see how anyone can feel anything other than that there was something deeply wrong about the nature of Woods up-bringing - a tragic re-run of Michael Jackson except involving sports & strippers instead of music & kids

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Cordelia]

Right, that's a very interesting site...

I'll say!

Controversial and un RI-PC as it may be, I agree, it's a very interesting site.

I confess I still haven't seen the documentary (I forgot to wake up to download it without going over my allotted megabytes, thereby being punished with no high-speed for 24 hours) and should probably shut up until I do. But, I think if I were still unconscious, or didn't understand something about lost time and outside forces controlling ones life, I might think, if this is true, what's the big deal? I mean, Tiger Woods has generated millions, billions, of dollars and lived in the lap of luxury amongst the most privileged elite...as a puppet. And, if the documentary is credible, flawed as it is, or if it's not credible, but the manipulation of Tiger is true anyway, it's just a tiny bit heart breaking, isn't it, someone robbed of self-determination and autonomy and wound up to perform (even if it's as someone to worship), as a superior athlete? Because, ultimately, he's still somebody's marionette.

I also have to wonder if acting out his sexual addictions was something also manufactured to manipulate & control him.

I'll try to interupt tonight's

[82_28]

I can't stand Phil Jackson. Last I heard, he wasn't a Buddhist, but a "Zen Christian". Cool. Good enough.

Anyhow, no. The preeminence of both Boston and LA, to me signals the absolute corruption of the NBA. While a fan, A Denver Nuggets fan at that. A team who has met no success ever. I'm sick of LA and I am sick of Boston. I'm tired of the big markets. I'm tired of the superstars. The only thing that brings me back to basketball are players, teams and coaches who have heart. Coaching and officiating now in this league no longer allows for heart -- it's superstar only. I only love NBA basketball because of these three images:







Those were the days!

I have more images too that I could post concerning my rare, deep and abiding love for my Nuggs. But those are the top three. You should see the lambasting I get on the NBA and Nuggets forums concerning my way of viewing things through my conspiratorial lens! Some dig it, but most don't.