Mars apparently to be colonized not just visited

[Hammer of Los]

...

I ever bow to Ben D.

...

[82_28]

Who knows if they're just blowing smoke up our collective asses, but there's this today that I found on slashdot:

Sentinel Exclusive: NASA wants to send astronauts beyond the moon

WASHINGTON — Top NASA officials have picked a leading candidate for the agency's next major mission: construction of a new outpost that would send astronauts farther from Earth than at any time in history.

The so-called "gateway spacecraft" would hover in orbit on the far side of the moon, support a small astronaut crew and function as a staging area for future missions to the moon and Mars.

At 277,000 miles from Earth, the outpost would be far more remote than the current space station, which orbits a little more than 200 miles above Earth. The distance raises complex questions of how to protect astronauts from the radiation of deep space — and rescue them if something goes wrong.

NASA Chief Charlie Bolden briefed the White House earlier this month on details of the proposal, but it's unclear whether it has the administration's support. Of critical importance is the price tag, which would certainly run into the billions of dollars.

Documents obtained by the Orlando Sentinel show that NASA wants to build a small outpost — likely with parts left over from the $100 billion International Space Station — at what's known as the Earth-Moon Lagrange Point 2, a spot about 38,000 miles from the moon and 277,000 miles from Earth.

At that location, the combined gravities of the Earth and moon reach equilibrium, making it possible to "stick" an outpost there with minimal power required to keep it in place.

To get there, NASA would use the massive rocket and space capsule that it is developing as a successor to the retired space shuttle. A first flight of that rocket is planned for 2017, and construction of the outpost would begin two years later, according to NASA planning documents.

Potential missions include the study of nearby asteroids or dispatching robotic trips to the moon that would gather moon rocks and bring them back to astronauts at the outpost. The outpost also would lay the groundwork for more-ambitious trips to Mars' moons and even Mars itself, about 140 million miles away on average.

Placing a "spacecraft at the Earth-Moon Lagrange point beyond the moon as a test area for human access to deep space is the best near-term option to develop required flight experience and mitigate risk," concluded the NASA report.

From NASA's perspective, the outpost solves several problems.

It gives purpose to the Orion space capsule and the Space Launch System rocket, which are being developed at a cost of about $3 billion annually. It involves NASA's international partners, as blueprints for the outpost suggest using a Russian-built module and components from Italy. And the outpost would represent a baby step toward NASA's ultimate goal: human footprints on Mars.

But how the idea — and cost — play with President Barack Obama, Congress and the public remains a major question. The price tag is never mentioned in the NASA report.

Spending is being slashed across the federal government in the name of deficit reduction; it's unlikely that NASA in coming years can get more than its current budget of $17.7 billion — if that.

The planning documents indicate the outpost is possible only with "modest increases" to the current budget — and that presumes none of the cost overruns that have characterized recent NASA projects. Indeed, the first construction flight in 2019 is labeled "unfunded" in briefing charts, as is a robotic "sample return" moon mission in 2022.

One NASA supporter in Congress — U.S. Rep. Bill Posey, R-Rockledge — said he liked the idea. But he said it would require strong White House backing to convince Congress to finance it.

NASA funding "always has been very precarious," Posey said. "And money is going to get tighter."

The White House did not respond to a request for comment, and a NASA statement was noncommittal about the outpost.

"There are many options — and many routes — being discussed on our way to the Red Planet," said spokesman David Weaver. "In addition to the moon and an asteroid, other options may be considered as we look for ways to buy down risk — and make it easier — to get to Mars.

A second major concern is astronaut safety. It will take days to get to the outpost — the farthest NASA has flown humans since the moon missions of 40 years ago — making rescue and supply missions difficult. The planning documents are unclear on whether astronauts would be permanently stationed at the outpost or there part time.

Another concern is how NASA intends to address the dangers of deep space, especially radiation.

The outpost would be more vulnerable to space radiation because it would be largely beyond the protective shield of Earth's magnetic field, said scientists with the National Space Biomedical Research Institute.

"It is significantly more difficult to shield and protect their [astronauts'] health" at that location, said Jeff Chancellor, an NSBRI scientist.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... lie-bolden

[Iamwhomiam]

It has been estimated that each launch from the new rocket we'll be using will cost $500 million.

As much as I enjoy our space adventures, NASA's programs should be suspended and it's budget allocation redirected. Never ever thought I'd say sumpin like that.

Misspelling of 'from' corrected

[General Patton]

It has been estimated that each launch form the new rocket we'll be using will cost $500 million.

As much as I enjoy our space adventures, NASA's programs should be suspended and it's budget allocation redirected. Never ever thought I'd say sumpin like that.

I'll just leave this here:
http://spinoff.nasa.gov/
http://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2008/pdf/timeline_08.pdf

[Ben D]

Concerning my reference on page one of this thread to the existence of an Integrated Space Plan, thanks to justdrew making it available, here it is.

[General Patton]

Concerning my reference on page one of this thread to the existence of an Integrated Space Plan, thanks to justdrew making it available, here it is.

Most of the older models assume homogeneity and a fixed landscape. There was nothing that would balance exploration versus exploitation within a model. It assumed an equal level of risk aversion in consumer marketplaces, or assumed there wasn't a wide difference in adoption of technologies depending on social structure. The key is all of the implicit and explicit assumptions built into the model. You might expect that a prediction would have degrees of probability and also be focused as much on preventing you from being surprised about new developments.

While I'm recycling links, there is also an agency involved in generation after next space defense:
http://www.ndia.org/Divisions/Divisions ... elease.pdf

Right now NASA is looking at synthetic biology e.g. Craig Venter, along with 3d printing to make the trip doable.



Nanotech is coming along, but needs more time to grow (they will all three slowly merge into one along with other technologies):
http://www.nanowerk.com/products/products.php

[Nordic]

Shit is fucked up and bullshit.

[freemason9]

Shit is fucked up and bullshit.

yup, yup.

[Ben D]

Year on ISS planned ahead of manned Mars mission

by Staff Writers
Moscow (RIA Novosti) Oct 09, 2012

NASA and the Russian space agency plan to send an international crew to the ISS for a year. The extended mission, if it succeeds, may bring scientists a step closer to manned flights to Mars and beyond. ­The plan envisages an international crew, made up of an American astronaut and Russian cosmonaut, blasting off on a Russian Soyuz spacecraft in March 2015.


So far, only four people have spent a year or longer in orbit during a single mission. All four are Russian cosmonauts who served aboard the Mir space station that operated in low Earth orbit for 15 years, before it was scrapped in 2001.

"A one-year increment on the ISS would be a natural progression as part of preparations for missions beyond low-Earth orbit," NASA spokesman Rob Navias said on Friday.

The extended expedition aims to gather the scientific data needed to send humans to destinations much farther away from Earth. The mission hopes to prove whether or not missions lasting longer than six months are possible.

NASA says the results will add more understanding to existing assumptions about crew performance and health and will be will helpful in reducing the risks associated with future exploration. Manned missions to an asteroid or Mars are already in the pipeline, being penned for 2025 and 2035 respectively.
'

[geogeo]

What we will have is solar capitalism, nothing else. There will be a losing battle fought by the 'socialists' to preserve a pristine' space commons, but they will be attacked, slandered, undermined, and ultimately pushed aside as the standards of living of the oligarchy are boosted by the influx of the rare resources on Earth that will be mined by prison colonies throughout the solar system. There is no apolitical outer space, and this should be evident from the better science fiction. If the last decade has taught us anything, it is that 'entrepreneurship' is regarded as the only way to benefit oneself, one's society, and the planet. This is doomed to failure, but since Neoliberal capitalism, and capitalism in general, is cancerous and ultimately suicidal, getting out of earth orbit will not help us at all.

I hold out hope for some sort of mystical destiny for humanity--the Hermetic vision of (some) people becoming gods; perhaps it has already happened. Perhaps capitalism is the vehicle whereby the funding can exist to create the technology that will help us form a super-mind, or become god, achieve the Noosphere, what have you. I'm not opposed. Perhaps the real work begins after physical death.

Not to say I wouldn't like to see some space colonization efforts. I'm fascinated by the evil movement of 'colonization' and this idea that it was so cool how white people and their slaves opened up 'virgin lands' and achieved hegemony by wiping out hundreds of ethnic groups that were there prior (some who had done exactly the same thing; not limited to white males).

[Hammer of Los]

...

I hold out hope for some sort of mystical destiny for humanity--the Hermetic vision of (some) people becoming gods; perhaps it has already happened.

Every day I recite my ode to Thoth-Hermanubis.

No, this isnt it;

...
Whose Means Unfold Like Origami?
Who Might be a One Man Army?

Whose Meditative Point; Who am I?
Who Spoke Magic Word Shazam? I!

You say orig army and I say orig am I.
...

...

[tazmic]

Documents obtained by the Orlando Sentinel show that NASA wants to build a small outpost — likely with parts left over from the $100 billion International Space Station — at what's known as the Earth-Moon Lagrange Point 2, a spot about 38,000 miles from the moon and 277,000 miles from Earth.

At that location, the combined gravities of the Earth and moon reach equilibrium, making it possible to "stick" an outpost there with minimal power required to keep it in place.

Except Earth-Moon L2 is a point of unstable equilibrium, and not nearly as groovy as L5



http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/mechanics/lagpt.html

And,

"The first issue of the L5 News was published in September, 1975. Consisting of just four pages, it included a letter of support from Udall. The newsletter also said that "our clearly stated long range goal will be to disband the Society in a mass meeting at L5."

The L5 Society

However,

"Earth–Moon L2 would be a good location for a communications satellite covering the Moon's far side. Earth–Moon L2 would be "an ideal location" for a propellant depot as part of the proposed depot-based space transportation architecture."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_point

Still, wouldn't it make more sense to 'do' L1 first?

[Ben D]

Just posting todays news item on the Chinese spacecraft at L2 due to the coincidental timing with tazmic's post concerning L2...

ChangE-2 Mission To Lagrange L2 Point

by Launchspace Staff Bethesda, MD (SPX) Oct 10, 2012

Last week, the 63rd International Astronautical Congress was held in Naples, Italy. One of the more interesting papers addresses the recent Chinese Chang'e-2 mission to the Earth-Sun L2 Lagrange point, located along the extended line of the two bodies, but lying in the shadow of the Earth.

Chang'e-2 was launched two years ago, on Oct 1st 2010. It primary mission was to maintain a lunar orbit for several months, which was successful.

That mission was completed by April 2011 and an additional mission to L2 was initiated in June 2011. Thus, Chang'e-2 escaped from its lunar orbit and made the transfer to the Lagrange point. Again, the Chinese spacecraft succeeded, this time to establish a Lissajous orbit in August of last year.

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/ChangE_2_Mission_To_Lagrange_L2_Point_999.html