Nuclear Meltdown Watch

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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby 82_28 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:58 am

Exclusion zone has now been officially widened to 20km. However some are reporting that it is as large as 60km on BBC TV.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:03 am

this is an alpha_mode failure. total fuckup. the pressure vessel must be breached. the news is full of soft-peddling bullshit. explosion always reported as it was heard, we don't know what happen, etc, etc... look at the video, the whole outer containment building blew to fuck. That hydrogren get's generated by heat from the corium (the metal mix of melted control-rods and fuel and other metal) getting into the water.

"we will take concrete measures as soon as possible"

I bet they're going to take CONCRETE measures.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby 82_28 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:12 am

#
1110: An attempt to explain the risk to the Fukushima nuclear plants following the earthquake: The plants are designed to shut down automatically, which halts the main nuclear fission reaction, but there is a residual amount of intense heat within the system. Back-up generators should kick in to power the cooling mechanisms needed to dissipate that heat - but if they fail, as appears to have happened here, temperatures rise. If this isn't stopped, the reactor vessel itself could eventually melt and leak.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:19 am

82_28 wrote:#
1110: An attempt to explain the risk to the Fukushima nuclear plants following the earthquake: The plants are designed to shut down automatically, which halts the main nuclear fission reaction, but there is a residual amount of intense heat within the system. Back-up generators should kick in to power the cooling mechanisms needed to dissipate that heat - but if they fail, as appears to have happened here, temperatures rise. If this isn't stopped, the reactor vessel itself could eventually melt and leak.


FYI the wiki page I posted explains exactly what can happen, and by looking at what has been said, it's clear this must be very very serious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown#Light_water_reactors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_%28nuclear_reactor%29
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:45 am

BREAKING: EXPLOSION ROCKS NUCLEAR PLANT AT FUKUSHIMA | INJURIES, PLUMES OF SMOKE, WALLS COLLAPSED
LATEST: EXPERTS COMPARE TO CHERNOBYL; QUESTIONS OF WHETHER CONTAINMENT DAMAGED, RADIATION LEAKING
Officials warn citizens to cover mouth, stay indoors...
Opening this as a new article, picking up from the much UPDATED last one, as of the explosion at the Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan.

For previous reports on how we got here, as we collected them throughout the entire day yesterday and late tonight, as officials had shut down the two nuclear plants and five reactors where they'd issued "nuclear emergencies" and widened local evacuations, please see our previous article...

Latest UPDATES, beginning with the EXPLOSION, now posted at bottom of this article...
Image

UPDATE 3/12/11 12:07am: "EXPLOSION HEARD". Okay. Never mind standing down for now. This could be very bad...These all from Reuters via Twitter:

"Explosion heard at quake-hit Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan - AFP via Sky News"

"FLASH: Several people appear to have been injured after reported Fukushima plant explosion - media"

"Japan nuclear plant update: Several workers injured following explosion at quake-hit site - NHK"

3/12 12:22am PT: Most detailed report on explosion at moment. From Lisa Twaronite at MarketWatch...


TOKYO (MarketWatch) --- Smoke or steam was seen around Tokyo Electric Power Co.'s Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant Saturday, according to Japanese broadcaster NHK. Several worders were reported injured at the plant, NHK said, adding that the exact cause of the emission was unknown. NHK reported an explosion was heard about 10 minutes before the white cloud appeared around the plant. Japanese media earlier Saturday warned that a meltdown was possible or may be already occurring at plant, after Friday's 8.9-magnitude earthquake and tsunami struck Japan's northeast coast and damaged the reactor's cooling system.

3/12 12:37am PT: NBC: "Explosion rocks quake-hit Japanese nuke plant"

"Japan nuclear plant update: Walls and roof of a building at site destroyed by blast - NHK via Sky News"

Reuters: Tokyo Electric Power Co. "(TEPCO) says four people taken to hospital after reported explosion, no word on condition: report"

3/12 12:53am PT: From Washington Post East Asia reporter Chico Harlan: "People in Fukushima area are being asked to close doors, shut windows, cover mouths with masks, wet towels"

3/12 12:53am PT: Good god. See the explosion AT APPX :47 mark in video...


3/12 1:54am PT: Via @BreakingNews: "Japan nuclear plant update: Hourly radiation leaking from Fukushima is equal to amount permitted in one year, official tells Kyodo"

And here's a before and after explosion shot via @Jadath. Note the skeletal structure in the "after" shot...


3/12 2:05am PT: Better video and commentary now from BBC here, but it doesn't seem to be embeddable, so you'll have to go to the link to look at it.
Image
During the video, the BBC nuclear expert Malcolm Grimston says: "I still very strongly suspect that's not an actual nuclear explosion. ... The issue is if that's damage to the containment, the nuclear materials may be able to escape. ... If that did include nuclear materials, we'll be seeing very high levels of contamination very quickly."

The hope is that because the nuclear process had been shut down --- even as officials have been unable to properly cool the plant --- the nuclear process is unlikely to have restarted.

3/12 2:12am PT: VOA's Steve Herman, on the ground in Fukushima, says the evacuation radius around the plant has been expanded to 20km. It had originally been 3km, before being widened to 10km. And now 20km.

3/12 2:20am PT: Three latest updates from BBC's live online coverage...

1016: The BBC's environment correspondent Roger Harrabin says he understands the blast at the nuclear plant may have been caused by a hydrogen explosion - also one of the possibilities laid out by Walt Patterson of Chatham House. "If nuclear fuel rods overheat and then come into contact with water, this produces a large amount of highly-flammable hydrogen gas which can then ignite," our correspondent says.
1011: More from Walt Patterson of Chatham House. He says the presence of the radioactive caesium in the surrounding area does not pose a huge threat to public health in the immediate aftermath of the explosion. "What would be serious is if there was an explosion or fire that lifted this stuff high in the air, meaning it could get carried over a wide area."

1009: "This is starting to look a lot like Chernobyl" Walt Patterson, an associate fellow with Chatham House, has told the BBC after seeing pictures of the explosion at the Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear plant. "The nuclear agency says that they have detected caesium and iodine outside the unit, which certainly indicates fuel melting at the very least," he says. "Once you have melting fuel coming into contact with water, that would almost certainly be the cause of the explosion."


3/12 2:30am: Stratfor analysis describes the situation as "Red Alert", but notes while a meltdown may have occurred, it does "not necessarily mean a nuclear disaster" --- before then going on, as the BBC expert noted above did, to compare the situation to Chernobyl...

A meltdown occurs when the control rods fail to contain the neutron emission and the heat levels inside the reactor thus rise to a point that the fuel itself melts, generally temperatures in excess of 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, causing uncontrolled radiation-generating reactions and making approaching the reactor incredibly hazardous. A meltdown does not necessarily mean a nuclear disaster. As long as the reactor core, which is specifically designed to contain high levels of heat, pressure and radiation, remains intact, the melted fuel can be dealt with. If the core breaches but the containment facility built around the core remains intact, the melted fuel can still be dealt with — typically entombed within specialized concrete — but the cost and difficulty of such containment increases exponentially.
However, the earthquake in Japan, in addition to damaging the ability of the control rods to regulate the fuel — and the reactor’s coolant system — appears to have damaged the containment facility, and the explosion almost certainly did.

At this point, events in Japan bear many similarities to the 1986 Chernobyl disaster. Reports indicate that up to 1.5 meters (4.9 feet) of the reactor fuel was exposed. The reactor fuel appears to have at least partially melted, and the subsequent explosion has shattered the walls and roof of the containment vessel — and likely the remaining useful parts of the control and coolant systems.

And so now the question is simple: Did the floor of the containment vessel crack? If not, the situation can still be salvaged by somehow re-containing the nuclear core. But if the floor has cracked, it is highly likely that the melting fuel will burn through the floor of the containment system and enter the ground. This has never happened before but has always been the nightmare scenario for a nuclear power event — in this scenario, containment goes from being merely dangerous, time consuming and expensive to nearly impossible.


They also note the --- seemingly obvious --- political angle...

The explosion at the reactor is certain to rattle confidence in nuclear power in Japan, victim of the only nuclear weapon explosions and where people have long been sensitized to the dangers of radioactive releases. In the United States, it will deal a severe blow to advocates of a nuclear power renaissance.
Of course, didn't they also say the BP oil spill would "deal a severe blow to advocates" of off-shore drilling?

3/12 3:21am PT: Russia Today's video of the explosion. Appears to be same as BBC's (as linked in the 2:05am PT update above), though embeddable and without the BBC commentary, unfortunately...


3/12 3:28am PT: Expert on Fox "News", Joe Cirincione of Ploughshares Fund, when asked what makes this the "second worst nuclear disaster in history", answers: "Three Miles Island never got to this phase. We're much closer to meltdown than we were at Three Mile Island." Goes on to compare to Chernobyl, like so many others late tonight.

Cirincione continues: "If there's no meltdown, well then, we've dodged a nuclear bullet and there won't be anything for Japan or the U.S. to have to worry about."
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:03 am

reporters are saying they have been stopped 60km away from the plant


I hope you all have your helmets ready to go
Image
Elementary school children wear fire proof hoods before they being evacuate from their classroom as part of a nationwide earthquake drill at a Tokyo elementary school on September 1, 2010


Japan's nuclear power operator has chequered past
Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:11am GMT
SINGAPORE, March 12 (Reuters) - The company at the centre of a nuclear reactor crisis following the biggest earthquake in Japan's recorded history has had a rocky past in an industry plagued by scandal.

The Japanese government said on Saturday that there had been radiation leakage at Tokyo Electric Power's (TEPCO) Fukushima Daiichi plant following an explosion there.

The blast came as TEPCO was working desperately to reduce pressures in the core of a reactor at the 40-year-old plant, which lies 240 km (150 miles) north of Tokyo.

In 2002, the president of the country's largest power utility was forced to resign along with four other senior executives, taking responsibility for suspected falsification of nuclear plant safety records.

The company was suspected of 29 cases involving falsified repair records at nuclear reactors. It had to stop operations at five reactors, including the two damaged in the latest tremor, for safety inspections.

A few years later it ran into trouble again over accusations of falsifying data.

In late 2006, the government ordered TEPCO to check past data after it reported that it had found falsification of coolant water temperatures at its Fukushima Daiichi plant in 1985 and 1988, and that the tweaked data was used in mandatory inspections at the plant, which were completed in October 2005.

And in 2007, TEPCO reported that it had found more past data falsifications, though this time it did not have to close any of its plants. (Writing by Jonathan Thatcher; Editing by John Chalmers; jonathan.thatcher@thomsonreuters.com
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:31 am

Sometimes I feel like I'm falling

And soon we will all find our lives swept away



Sometimes I feel like I'm falling
Fall back again, fall back again,
Fall back again, fall back again

Oh, life it seems a struggle between
what we see and what we do
Well I'm not going to change my ways
just to please you or appease you
Inside a crowd, five billion proud
willing to punch it out
Right, wrong, weak, strong
ashes to ashes all fall down
Look around about this round about
this merry-go-round and around
Well If at all God's gaze upon us falls
it's with a mischievous grin, look at him

Forget about the reasons and
the treasons we are seeking
Forget about the notion that
our emotions can be swept away
Forget about being guilty
we are innocent instead
For soon we will all find our lives swept away

Late at night with TV's hungry child
his belly swells
Well, for the price of a coke or a smoke
I could keep alive those hungry eyes
Man, take a look again, take a look again
Eveyday things change
Basically they stay the same


Forget about the reasons and
the treasons we are seeking
Forget about the notion that
our emotions can be kept at bay
Forget about being guilty
we are innocent instead
For soon we will all find our lives swept away

You seek up an emotion
and your cup is overflowing
You seek up on emotion,
sometimes your well is dry
You seek up a big monster
for him to fight your wars for you
But when he finds his way to you, the devil's not
going, "Ha ha, ha ha"

(Say, oh say)

Oh look at me in my fancy car
and my bank account
Oh, how I wish I could take it all down
into my grave, God knows I'd save and save
Man, take a look again, take a look again
things you have collected, well in the end piles up
to one big nothing, one big nothing at all


Forget about the reasons and
the treasons we are seeking
Forget about the notion that
our emotions can be swept away
Intentions are not wicked, don't be tricked into thinking so
And soon we will all find our lives swept away

You seek up an emotion
and your cup is overflowing
You seek up an emotion,
sometimes your well is dry
You seek up a big monster
for him to fight your wars for you
But when he finds his way to you, the devil's not
going, "Ha ha, ha ha"

Fall back again, fall back again
Fall back again, fall back again
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:36 am

Red Alert: Nuclear Meltdown at Quake-Damaged Japanese Plant
March 12, 2011 | 0827 GMT

Image

A March 12 explosion at the earthquake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in Okuma, Japan, appears to have caused a reactor meltdown.

The key piece of technology in a nuclear reactor is the control rods. Nuclear fuel generates neutrons; controlling the flow and production rate of these neutrons is what generates heat, and from the heat, electricity. Control rods absorb neutrons — the rods slide in and out of the fuel mass to regulate neutron emission, and with it, heat and electricity generation.

A meltdown occurs when the control rods fail to contain the neutron emission and the heat levels inside the reactor thus rise to a point that the fuel itself melts, generally temperatures in excess of 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, causing uncontrolled radiation-generating reactions and making approaching the reactor incredibly hazardous. A meltdown does not necessarily mean a nuclear disaster. As long as the reactor core, which is specifically designed to contain high levels of heat, pressure and radiation, remains intact, the melted fuel can be dealt with. If the core breaches but the containment facility built around the core remains intact, the melted fuel can still be dealt with — typically entombed within specialized concrete — but the cost and difficulty of such containment increases exponentially.



Image
However, the earthquake in Japan, in addition to damaging the ability of the control rods to regulate the fuel — and the reactor’s coolant system — appears to have damaged the containment facility, and the explosion almost certainly did. There have been reports of “white smoke,” perhaps burning concrete, coming from the scene of the explosion, indicating a containment breach and the almost certain escape of significant amounts of radiation.

At this point, events in Japan bear many similarities to the 1986 Chernobyl disaster. Reports indicate that up to 1.5 meters (4.9 feet) of the reactor fuel was exposed. The reactor fuel appears to have at least partially melted, and the subsequent explosion has shattered the walls and roof of the containment vessel — and likely the remaining useful parts of the control and coolant systems.

Image


And so now the question is simple: Did the floor of the containment vessel crack? If not, the situation can still be salvaged by somehow re-containing the nuclear core. But if the floor has cracked, it is highly likely that the melting fuel will burn through the floor of the containment system and enter the ground. This has never happened before but has always been the nightmare scenario for a nuclear power event — in this scenario, containment goes from being merely dangerous, time consuming and expensive to nearly impossible.

Radiation exposure for the average individual is 620 millirems per year, split about evenly between manmade and natural sources. The firefighters who served at the Chernobyl plant were exposed to between 80,000 and 1.6 million millirems. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission estimates that exposure to 375,000 to 500,000 millirems would be sufficient to cause death within three months for half of those exposed. A 30-kilometer-radius (19 miles) no-go zone remains at Chernobyl to this day. Japan’s troubled reactor site is about 300 kilometers from Tokyo.

The latest report from the damaged power plant indicated that exposure rates outside the plant were at about 620 millirems per hour, though it is not clear whether that report came before or after the reactor’s containment structure exploded.



Read more: Red Alert: Nuclear Meltdown at Quake-Damaged Japanese Plant | STRATFOR
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:13 pm

Do ya believe it?

Japan earthquake: Officials say nuclear catastrophe averted
Fears of a nuclear meltdown in Japan have subsided after a reactor that was damaged in Friday’s devastating earthquake reportedly emerged intact from an explosion.
Image

Officials in protective gear check for signs of radiation on children who are from the evacuation area near the Fukushima Daini nuclear plant in Koriyama, Saturday March 12. Fears of a nuclear meltdown subsided after a reactor that was damaged in Friday’s devastating earthquake reportedly emerged intact from an explosion.

Kim Kyung-Hoon/Reuters
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby norton ash » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:18 pm

seemslikeadream wrote:Do ya believe it?

Japan earthquake: Officials say nuclear catastrophe averted
Fears of a nuclear meltdown in Japan have subsided after a reactor that was damaged in Friday’s devastating earthquake reportedly emerged intact from an explosion.
Image

Officials in protective gear check for signs of radiation on children who are from the evacuation area near the Fukushima Daini nuclear plant in Koriyama, Saturday March 12. Fears of a nuclear meltdown subsided after a reactor that was damaged in Friday’s devastating earthquake reportedly emerged intact from an explosion.

Kim Kyung-Hoon/Reuters


I WANT to believe it. I hope it's true.

I wish I could believe it. :|
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:39 pm

.

Of course you want to believe it. What kind of monster wouldn't?

In this case a cover-up is impossible and furthermore would be in no one's interest no matter how evil they may be. (If it's a meltdown, the chance of a panic is better for the government than the certain riots if they try covering it up. Besides, if there's a place where the evacuation will be orderly it's Japan, although the aftermath will be ugly and hear-braking no matter what.)

So pending that we'll know for sure in another day (and can't do anything about it from here), I'm actually inclined to believe Reuters over Stratfor (no! really?). The crux-sentence in the Stratfor piece is:

And so now the question is simple: Did the floor of the containment vessel crack? If not, the situation can still be salvaged by somehow re-containing the nuclear core. But if the floor has cracked, it is highly likely that the melting fuel will burn through the floor of the containment system and enter the ground.


Which also translates into: Fuck if we know. Because it is often in the interest of some to milk panic out of ignorance for as long as it lasts.

.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby justdrew » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:43 pm

well, like Jack says, this wouldn't be 'cover-up-able' if there had been a major release. I guess the core's pressure vessel did remain largely intact. a very good thing indeed.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby Peachtree Pam » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:10 pm

This is from the Guardian's continuing coverage of the earthquake in Japan.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ma ... rmath-live

4:28 p.m.:
The incident at the Fukushima No 1 nuclear plant is less serious than both the Three Mile Island accident in 1979 and the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear disaster, according to Japan's nuclear safety agency.

An official at the agency said it has given the incident a rating of 4 on the International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale (INES), which equates to an accident with local consequences. Three Mile Island was rated 5 while Chernobyl received the highest rating of 7, he added.

-------------

I really hope this is true.

......snip

Among recent developments, it has been reported that three people are being treated for exposure to radiation from the Fukushima nuclear site, while a plant operator has confirmed there has been no damage to the container or the nuclear reactor following the earlier explosion.

......snip

Dozens of aftershocks, some as strong as magnitude 6, struck Japan on Saturday. Japan's state broadcaster has warned people in coastal areas that there could be further tsunamis.
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby barracuda » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:13 pm

While it's good to hope for the best possible outcome at Fukushima, it strikes me as pretty transparent that the news on this disaster has been managed from the start to be as inconsequential as possible to the nuclear industry.

Also - great thread, everyone. (And that means you, slad.)
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Re: Nuclear Meltdown Watch

Postby Peachtree Pam » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:19 pm

Barracuda,

Do you think that there is a cover-up of the extent of the disaster? How could it be covered up? Not trying to be naive, just terrified.

I am so hoping that it is true that the extent of the damage has been exaggerated.
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