Chris Hedges "Revolt is all we have left",on A. Jones 9/5/12

[lupercal]

I've hawked many a button for my own third party

I'm sure that's true.

Before my time gramps, sorry.

p.s. nice swiftboat parked in your driveway.

[2012 Countdown]

Am I really reading this on RI?

Yeah...I did a rolleyes at that too. Hey everybody, Iraq is a done deal!
...which is why debating the obvious facts are pointless as I think we can see. Even trying (and succeeding!) at changing the corporate drumbeat is 'pointless' to some. Lets just keep playing the donkey-carrot game.

[barracuda]

Am I really reading this on RI?

Yeah...I did a rolleyes at that too. Hey everybody, Iraq is a done deal!.

I'm guessing you guys missed this fabulous thread.

p.s. nice swiftboat parked in your driveway.

I don't have a driveway, but how dare you call ol' Bessie a boat!

[2012 Countdown]

So what is the 'real' deal on Lybia? Syria? Why are they openly using Al-CIAda forces, again? And what about all the corporate shit stuffing we are being made to swallow by this puppet (Obama)?

This is silly.

[lupercal]

^ Look, if you don't even know we've been out of Iraq for seven freaking months, and you can't be bothered to look it up (google "troops in iraq 2012" for pete's sake), no, you probably shouldn't be voting because you're about as informed as Sarah Palin. Less maybe. But the point is you're never going to get informed by following the likes of Hedges and Greenwald, because it's not in their interest to tell you the truth, but it absolutely is in your interest to figure out what the hell is going on politically and start making some informed decisions. Otherwise you might as well be posting Tea Party updates on free republic.

[barracuda]

I'd say that most people on this thread are informed enough to make an intelligent decision in November. And I'm glad "we're out of Iraq", besides the 1000 training troops and mercenaries, the 15,000 employees of the Bagdad embassy, the embassies in Arbil, Basra, Kirkuk, and Mosul, the fifteen thousand soldiers in Kuwait and the assorted 35,000 other troops in the Persian gulf, plus the assorted and obviously unknown number of CIA agents, other mercenaries, thousands of US contractors and their security teams, &c. It's great. Just great.

[2012 Countdown]

A non-answer is what I expected, but calling me as 'informed' as Sarah Palin? Okay.

[ninakat]

Am I really reading this on RI?

Yeah...I did a rolleyes at that too. Hey everybody, Iraq is a done deal!.

I'm guessing you guys missed this fabulous thread.

You guessed correctly. I'll take a look..... Oh good god. Drew, please get the rest of emoticons going baby (in your spare time, of course) -- I have a few choice ones in mind just about now.

[jingofever]

Okay. But their arguments sound hollow this year because, well, they are. The war in Iraq for example is over . What ended it? Faux demonstrations organized by the Koch brothers and others?

The Status of Forces Agreement signed during the Bush administration and Iraq's refusal to grant immunity to any troops who would stick around past the deadline?

[JackRiddler]

For his aplomb in wading immediately back into this thread, unaffected by Starman Skye's post, lupercal should be awarded a new avatar!



Now. I'm disappointed in all of you for your short memories.*

Official, uniformed forces of the US military withdrew from Iraq by Dec. 31, 2011, under the conditions specified in the Status of Forces Agreement negotiated by (i.e., forced on) the Bush Regime in 2008. Something you should remember, since the resident's ceremonial trip to Iraq to finalize SOFA provided the best moment of his sham presidency.



In 2011, Obama and the Pentagon attempted to renegotiate SOFA to extend the occupation (no doubt exactly as Bush would have in a third term), at first with Maliki's support. They backed off once it was obvious that the Iraqi government would never, could never provide immunity to US soldiers past the deadline, not without provoking a new uprising.

In short, thanks to the struggles of the long-suffering Iraqi people against the invaders, official US forces were finally withdrawn, in keeping with SOFA, a treaty signed by Bush and implemented (despite efforts to undermine it) by Obama. No American presidents or potentates or generals deserve credit for this; sadly they will be escaping the fate they truly deserve, which would involve a long trip to the Hague.

Debatably the Obama admin's attempt to extend the official US occupation was undermined by the Wikileaks release of the Iraq war logs. Thus Assange probably deserves more credit than Obama for "ending" the war, insofar as it's over. I say probably because it's not certain that Wikileaks had this effect, although since Obama attempted to extend the war, anyone deserves more credit than he.

As others have pointed out here, fulfilment of SOFA terms hardly means an end to a hostile US presence in Iraq, but reduces it to private military contractors working both for the US and the Iraqi governments. Doubtless attacks from the air have continued, which would have to be in collaboration with Iraqi government forces. And of course the region remains destabilized and endangered by the large US forces maintained, at enormous expense to the taxpayer, in Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, Bahrain, bases in the Indian Ocean, carrier groups in the Gulf, etc. And you still have the continuing US wars in Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia, Eritrea/Ethiopia. And the expensive US attack-dog in Israel. And the profitable buyer of hundreds of billions of dollars in US weapons in the Kingdom.

But other than that, hooray! The worst criminals of the 21st century, the unpunished perpetrators of a war of aggression launched against protests from most of the world's peoples and governments, live free and prosper. They destroyed a nation, set up a civil war, caused a million deaths, made millions homeless, and poisoned future generations. But they didn't quite gain their original objective of establishing permanent official US bases on Iraqi territory; or of having US oil companies get all the best Iraqi concessions. Thank you Obama, for not (in the end) violating the SOFA as signed by Bush!

..

ON EDIT: Note

* Except, I see, jingofever in the last post before this one. Oops.

.

[2012 Countdown]

Okay, that shoe throwing made me have to post again, lmao still.

Well, in actuality, of course I know they 'withdrew'. I watched it. Rachel Maddow had the exclusive. I remember how unceremoniously it was too.
But as was pointed out by Cuda, big deal.

But yes, Starmanskye's post was a base clearer that was not even replied to by the accuser. Luther's short comment was pointed enough...the reply was just more faux conspiracy nonsense.
But I'm not going to argue with a guy who makes up all this dumb shit about Hedges being CIA or OWS being an Op he participates in. Its nonsense.
To hail the Iraq war pullout in complete disregard to refutations to his earlier accusations are pointless.

But the last thing in this post, no I don't think I'm going to vote, so good news! It doesn't even matter as I am in R district overwhelmingly. But more importantly, I'm not here advocating 'not to vote', nor am I here trying to 'supress the vote'..wtf?! Some people are in hard campaign mode and ready to tussle behind the battle lines. When I am not here, I might be playing the liberal communist, and of course, an Obama lover/Obamabot -or called one on a financial board. So thinking, I might be 'suppressing the vote' for Romney over there by pointing out how much like Obama he is there.

Hedges' issue is bigger than voting, beyond it. Its not to suppress anything. In the interview, he mentioned it once, maybe twice, but only as a set up or consequence of a much larger point(s).

[lupercal]

Debatably the Obama admin's attempt to extend the official US occupation was undermined by the Wikileaks release of the Iraq war logs. Thus Assange probably deserves more credit than Obama for "ending" the war, insofar as it's over.

You have got to be kidding. That tops even barracuda's fresh-from-the-gluteus-maximus fax'n'figures for sheer wishful thinking.

I say probably because it's not certain that Wikileaks had this effect, although since Obama attempted to extend the war, anyone deserves more credit than he.

So let me guess, after racking up 18,536 posts as a Will Pitt mini-me on DU, you're not really a Democrat, and you're not planning on voting for Obama in November?

Have I got that straight?

[Nordic]

I have Lupercal on ignore. He's one of only 2 people I've ever had on ignore here.

He is such an exception to any sense of normal around here, it's just kind of pointless to read what he has to say about 95% of the time.

This thread would be on a much better track if he were ignored by one and all.

Just a suggestion.

[JackRiddler]

I have Lupercal on ignore. He's one of only 2 people I've ever had on ignore here.

So do I -- the first time I ever noticed him, he was calling me CIA or some such on another forum, with the usual anything-goes logic -- but his posts are so extraterrestrially stupid that it's hard not to look, and often too fat not to target. Ignore isn't really ignore because you can still see he posted, and check it. It's a kind of violence to respond, I suppose - I enjoy imagining his-her-its reaction to the (self-evident) idea that Assange did more to end the official US occupation of Iraq than anyone in the United States government, which tried to extend it. I'm so bad with temptations. On the other hand, you never know who might be reading, and sufficiently ill-informed to take any of it seriously.

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[justdrew]

yes, let's setup a good group think echo chamber, that's be great you two!

come on, do I really even need to make the case? Of course you shouldn't be ignoring someone just because you often don't agree. fast scan, or skip past, but ignore?