Government Shutdown!!!!

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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby Carol Newquist » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:48 pm

As hard as it is to believe given the psychotic babble coming out of the mouths of House Republicans, the Affordable Care Act was the creation of a think tank revered by conservatives, the Heritage Institute, and promoted by Republicans in the early '90s as an alternative to "Hillarycare." Of course, none other than Mitt Romney made it his main legacy as governor of Massachusetts; i.e., that is to say before he retroactively denounced it to jump on the anti-Obamacare juggernaut in the GOP primaries.

Why did the Heritage Foundation promote what is more or less now the Affordable Care Act that the House Republcans are comparing to bubonic plague? Because of the individual mandate. Republicans just love individual responsibility as compared to corporate responsibility, right?


Nice try, Mark. I suppose since this is the case, I should now support the ACA? No dice. It was a transparent gift to the insurance companies and shit sandwich to the patients/customers then when the Republicans supported it, and it is now that the Democrats support it.

What this statement should imply, is what many here have argued for years, and I have argued in my many incarnations across the internet, and that is when the rubber meets the road, meaning on legislation that really matters, aside from the rhetorical hyperbole, there isn't much if any distinction between the Republicans and the Democrats, and certainly any distinction there may be is not substantial to any degree.
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby 82_28 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:59 pm

BPH, I asked the question and you layered on more. I don't know what you're yammering on about. Maybe it's your looming vacation. But to answer all in one fell swoop:

No, I do not give a shit if it shuts down or stays "running" -- either or.. What have the Romans really done for us? You know? Anymore I really don't give a shit whether it's there or not there. I am indifferent. I have, we have, many other layers of government in place should the federal government "shut down".

Perhaps my question was more rhetorical than genuine. I still pay my taxes. I still have no control. I live hand to mouth standing on my feet and aching knees. And I do no harm and stop harm when I detect or see it to the best of my ability. So no, I don't give a fuck whether the government exists or doesn't exist. Even though it's all fake to begin with. The government will still be intact and this is all a ploy. Frankly I am tired of ploys and will no longer play.

I kind of agree with the sentiments in this link:

http://www.earlyclues.com/2013/09/30/ur ... e-in-time/

I don't think he grasps the absurdity of "government shutdown" but his heart seems to be in the right place.

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There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:17 pm

Shutdown: A multi-billion dollar hit to economy
By Chris Isidore @CNNMoney September 30, 2013: 5:18 PM ET


Shutdown and debt ceiling loom large
NEW YORK (CNNMoney)
A government shutdown could cost the still-struggling U.S. economy roughly $1 billion a week in pay lost by furloughed federal workers. And that's only the tip of the iceberg.
First, there are the estimated 800,000 federal employees who will be off the job. That's roughly the same number of workers employed by all the auto assembly lines and auto parts factories across the country.

But economists say the impact will come not just from those lost wages, but also from related businesses cutting back or halting their operations. That will lead to a pullback in spending by employees of affected companies.
Then, there's the impact from increased business uncertainty that trims investments and disrupts financial markets.
The total economic impact is likely to be at least 10 times greater than the simple calculation of wages lost by federal workers, said Brian Kessler, economist with Moody's Analytics. His firm estimates that a three to four week shutdown will cost the economy about $55 billion.
That would mean that the economic impact from a month-long shutdown would be roughly equal to the combined disruption caused by Hurricane Katrina and Superstorm Sandy, not counting the property damage that accompanied those storms.
"What's maddening is this is all totally voluntary. It's totally unnecessary," said Kessler.
While a shutdown now appears inevitable, Kessler said there are still hopes that the economy can be spared the worst of the impact.
Related: How will a government shutdown affect you?
"If it's a relatively short shutdown, it's a minor headache," he said. "But if it lasts several weeks, the people affected start to act like they're unemployed. They delay larger purchases. That's why you start to see a significantly greater effect the longer it goes ."
Many federal contractors will also have to cut back on staffing if they don't get the business they normally do from the government. There's also a large variety of businesses that depend on the government to conduct their normal operations -- tourism businesses that depend on national parks staying open, for example.
Related: How the government will shutdown
"The private sector impacts are quite large," Kessler said.
A government shutdown will also have less-obvious effects.
Related: Shutdown -- what happens on Day 1
A shutdown also will hurt small businesses, since the Small Business Administration also won't be able to process loan applications. Tourism and even air travel could be affected since the state department won't be able to issue visas to allow many foreign travelers to come here.
But the real worry for economists is not what happens because of a government shutdown. The real worry is if the current legislative battle prevents the debt ceiling from being raised before Treasury runs out of cash to pay the nation's bills.

Blankfein: Shutdown threat is bad policy
"A protracted shutdown would cause larger, escalating disruptions, including declines in private production and rising risk premiums in financial markets," said a note from Macroeconomic Advisors. "However, we see the possibility of hitting the debt ceiling later this fall as a far larger threat to the economic outlook."
Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody's Analytics, testified before Congress last week that while a shutdown would slow economic growth, breaching the debt ceiling would force far deeper spending cuts that would quickly plunge the U.S. economy back into recession.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby jingofever » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:17 pm

If the government shuts down then brainpanhandler may be out of luck because national parks are not considered essential services. For some reason I don't think the shutdown will happen but I am often wrong on these things.
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:20 pm

yes the national parks will close at midnight

At least 800,000 federal civilian workers will be furloughed. They will not be paid during the shutdown.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby KeenInsight » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:24 pm

The reason the politicians are making a big hoopla about it is so the complacent citizens get all amped up about it.

"Hey look over here guys, don't mind the fact that our we'll raise the debt ceiling anyways and we'll continue to spend 60% of the budget on the military, nope we ain't cutting the military or deleting our bases!"
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby justdrew » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:25 pm

Elizabeth Warren compares compromise on government shutdown to negotiating with hostage takers
By Travis Gettys | Monday, September 30, 2013 14:49 EDT

A Democratic senator said she hopes her colleagues won’t break ranks and delay the new health care reform law to avoid a government shutdown.

“We’ve had a referendum on that, so we can keep debating it from the floor of the Senate, but you don’t get to hold the entire economy, the entire country, hostage because you don’t like the outcome of the election,” Elizabeth Warren (MA) said Friday at a conference at the University of Chicago.

“We had an election in 2012, and a big part of what a lot of people talked about, including me (and) including the president of the United States, was health care, and the people who said no to the Affordable Care Act – they lost, (and) they are not in the majority,” Warren said.

She had originally been scheduled to speak in person at a kickoff event at the Institute of Politics, but Warren stayed behind in Washington, D.C., and spoke via satellite so she could vote on a proposal to temporarily fund the government.

Senate Democrats had stripped out a provision to fund the government but cut funding to the health care law.

House Republicans voted over the weekend on a proposal to fund the federal government in exchange for a yearlong delay in ACA implementation and the elimination of a tax on medical devices that would help fund the program.

Warren said she doubted the Senate majority would agree to any proposal by the House majority that would cut funding or delay the law’s implementation.

“You can’t go down that path,” Warren said. “You can’t empower people by saying, ‘Here you are in the minority, and you’re going to shut down the whole government because something you don’t like has already – let’s be clear – passed the United States Senate, passed the House of Representatives, was signed into law by the president of the United States, was certified by the United States Supreme Court as constitutional and has partially gone into effect. That’s the democratic process.”
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:56 am

A close friend of mine is a higher up for the parks department, I didn't ask him but does this mean he won't get paid for awhile? Or majorly reduced pay?

At any rate, the "shutdown" has begun. Let the grand experiment begin! And hmmm, let's hope none of these terruhists take advantage of our fiscally weakened and reduced coast guard/homeland security!
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby Carol Newquist » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:17 am

bph, I don't want there to be any hard feelings. I understand your sentiment, and also agree with it. I can agree with both your sentiment and the sentiment of 82_28....they're not mutually exclusive. That being said, I believe a sage quote from my son-in-law, Alfred Chamberlain, sums it up nicely.

It's dangerous to challenge a system unless you're completely at peace with the thought that you're not going to miss it when it collapses.


No more System, no more Breaking Bads.
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby NeonLX » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:18 am

OK, I realize this "shut down" is merely a big Punch and Judy show that nobody finds entertaining, but in the longer run...what do we do?

Full strike?
Everyone stop paying taxes?
Drink ourselves stupid (already there)?
America is a fucked society because there is no room for essential human dignity. Its all about what you have, not who you are.--Joe Hillshoist
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby Carol Newquist » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:07 am

Everyone stop paying taxes?


That's what I've done. Actually, we've lowered our incomes deliberately so we pay no taxes and instead receive tax credits from the government. I have a bro though who makes half a million a year and pays taxes out the ass. The so-called Middle Class takes it up the rear when it comes to taxes. The poor and the wealthy have managed to avoid it (at least FIT). The ACA will end up being a tax on the poor. My strategy won't work for long. If enough people do it, the PTB will find another way to extract your blood(metaphorically and quite literally) for their War Machine.
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:32 am

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby Elihu » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:35 am

OK, I realize this "shut down" is merely a big Punch and Judy show that nobody finds entertaining, but in the longer run...what do we do?

Full strike?
Everyone stop paying taxes?
Drink ourselves stupid (already there)?


keep on keeping on, be patient, get right with God. hope to meet you someday neon. e
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby Carol Newquist » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:23 pm

I just came from outside and the sky still hasn't fallen....and the planes are still flying overhead on schedule. Kids are still at school and people are still going to work. The bars are still open and serving all manner of drink and Breaking Bad is available on Netflix. So much for their bluff. They shut down and we're still breathing....hell, we're more than breathing, we're thriving despite their siphoning.
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Re: Government Shutdown!!!!

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:25 pm

Due to the lapse in government funding, census.gov sites, services, and all online survey collection requests will be unavailable until further notice.

Updates regarding government operating status and resumption of normal operations can be found at <usa.gov>.

Websites affected by this shutdown are all census.gov hosted websites, including:

Census.gov
American Factfinder
Public API
FTP Servers
FAQs
Blogs
Online Surveys
Federal Statistical Organization websites: FCSM, FedStats and MapStats
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