Conspiracy Theories a Sign of Sane Thinking Study Shows

[coffin_dodger]

I know at least one person who is literally dumb as a brick and convinced he's a genius

Irony alert. What if he's convinced of exactly the same thing you are? Which of you is correct?

[MacCruiskeen]

I know at least one person who is literally dumb as a brick and convinced he's a genius

Irony alert. What if he's convinced of exactly the same thing you are? Which of you is correct?

Oh, now you're just being clever.

[coffin_dodger]

Dr Evil said:

To be fair, some people really are smarter than most others, and some people really are stupid.
My main problem with stupid people is that so many of them are absolutely convinced that they're really smart (the Dunning-Kruger effect, they simply don't have the mental capacity to understand that they are stupid, which can be incredibly infuriating. I know at least one person who is literally dumb as a brick and convinced he's a genius. Some of the things he says are mind-boggling. Even when he's on the right track he will miss the most obvious basics and fuck everything up, but I can't tell him because: A) It's not polite, B) He's not going to believe me. He's to dumb to understand it when I try to explain), but as you say - this ties into the notion that people get very upset if they're called stupid, so it's not something you point out in civilized company.

Yeah, I'm beginning to understand your choice of username, now.

If I existed inside the paradigm you find yourself in, I could probably make a case that you are an intelligentist. A bit like a racist, but intelligent(ist).

It sounds like people that you consider to be 'stupid' really annoy you. Would it be fair to say that you consider people less intelligent than yourself as inferior to you in some way?

[Searcher08]

I know at least one person who is literally dumb as a brick and convinced he's a genius

Irony alert. What if he's convinced of exactly the same thing you are? Which of you is correct?

Perhaps in some cases, the criteria for stupidity are quite different


Pseudoskeptic Physicist Peter thinks non-standard physicist James is an idiot
because
he has not been published in a peer reviewed journal
he has not had a university appointment since his PhD
his colleagues think James is an idiot too

Leading edge physicist James thinks Peter is an idiot
because
he is afraid to leave an academically safe String Theory world
he has played the academic game, not searched for the Truth
he is a social metaphysician, who makes his mind up via colleagues opinions


There is also the 'Intelligence Trap' aka Idiots of High IQ

This is equating practical thinking skill with IQ, when the two things are quite different. I have been around MANY PhD research scientists who were very poor thinkers indeed in terms of matters of considering alternatives, looking at multiple points of view, extracting positive features and benefits, looking for downsides when everyone else is convinced an idea is great, examining situations from multiple perspectives, looking at how situations play out over time etc etc

I have also been around inner city kids who would have wiped the floor with them regarding practical thinking skills.

[Forgetting2]

If I hear one more person say (with that inevitable sickly ingratiating smile) "I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but...", I am going to endure it patiently, as usual, probably.

Is there a collection of most effective responses to conspiracy theorist accusations, dismissals or attacks on this board?

One of my favorites is to ask the person to define what precisely they mean by the phrase "Conspiracy Theorist." Ask for a clear definition. That will usually stop it there.

Another favorite is something Mr. Wells said somewhere on here, if I remember correctly: "Conspiracy is the hypothesis. The theory is the deep state." This will also generally stop things, as most people couldn't correctly define the scientific method if their life depended on it, nor do they generally want to hear about the 'deep state.'

If someone cares to engage after that, they generally seem to me to have more of an open mind.

[82_28]

If I hear one more person say (with that inevitable sickly ingratiating smile) "I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but...", I am going to endure it patiently, as usual, probably.

Everywhere I've ever worked which over the last 15 years, all with the public, I learned to size up the personality if I was even going to approach really any subject. But my old boss gave me shit because apparently I exude the opinions of people I would call fucking crazy but since I question everything, it comes off that I am one of "them". I never spoke about 9/11 but if a topic came up that was conventionally accepted I would pipe up with basically "that's fucking bullshit".

[82_28]

I noticed a curious thing - that many of these people find non-binary thinking extremely threatening - in fact an *existential* threat.

I assure you that my intelligence is far from lacking on any scientifically determined objective scale

Perhaps a salient moment to discuss the power of 'intelligence'.

What is it, regarding intelligence, that is so important to people? Why does someone else calling in to doubt the level of one's own intelligence (an imagined sleight, or real), burn like a bastard and cause immediate outrage and agitation? A grown man can be made to splutter, blush and get extremely angry if his 'intelligence' is called in to question. Hate can be generated quickly amongst neutral parties at the very mention of such blasphemy.

Yeah, intelligence is extremely important to us. Yet it remains one of the most subjective terms that I can think of. I can't think of a single person on this board who is not 'intelligent' - yet to simply be intelligent is not enough, is it? - there seems to need to be some kind of ranking system. A system that allows us to dismiss those 'not as intelligent as ourselves' as somehow not as rational, logical or 'right' as ourselves.

That's because the entire notion of 'intelligence' is a scam. It's a form of control, appealing to the narcissistic nature of humankind, instilled into you by a society easily able to control you.

It's a perfect catch22. Teach them they are intelligent. Intelligence means they are no fool. Not being a fool means they can't be caught in a con. Meanwhile, more malign forces keep us in the con. But it can't be, can it? - because we are intelligent, we will see the con...right?

'Intelligence' is elitist and heirarchical. (Sounder - that's another one for your 'methods of control' thread)

Perception and Empathy would be better measures of humankind. Intelligence is rotten.

I flashed on your whereabouts, coffin_dodger and one of my most formative songs in my life re "intelligence" "power" "conspiracy". It's actually worth listening to.

[DrEvil]

Dr Evil said:

To be fair, some people really are smarter than most others, and some people really are stupid.
My main problem with stupid people is that so many of them are absolutely convinced that they're really smart (the Dunning-Kruger effect, they simply don't have the mental capacity to understand that they are stupid, which can be incredibly infuriating. I know at least one person who is literally dumb as a brick and convinced he's a genius. Some of the things he says are mind-boggling. Even when he's on the right track he will miss the most obvious basics and fuck everything up, but I can't tell him because: A) It's not polite, B) He's not going to believe me. He's to dumb to understand it when I try to explain), but as you say - this ties into the notion that people get very upset if they're called stupid, so it's not something you point out in civilized company.

Yeah, I'm beginning to understand your choice of username, now.

If I existed inside the paradigm you find yourself in, I could probably make a case that you are an intelligentist. A bit like a racist, but intelligent(ist).

It sounds like people that you consider to be 'stupid' really annoy you. Would it be fair to say that you consider people less intelligent than yourself as inferior to you in some way?

Sooo.. Shoot the messenger paired with some light Godwin-ing.

It sounds like people that you consider to be 'intelligent' really annoy you. Would it be fair to say that you consider people more intelligent than yourself as inferior to you in some way?

And if I existed in the paradigm of Creationism I could probably make the case that the Earth is 6000 years old. What's your point?

Are you disputing that people have varying intelligence? Or that IQ is irrelevant?

I'm not saying it's the be-all end-all, but general intelligence is a pretty important part of who people are.

Edit: The Dunning-Kruger effect is an actual thing. Are you disputing that too?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

[coffin_dodger]

Dr Evil said:

Are you disputing that people have varying intelligence? Or that IQ is irrelevant?

Neither. I'm explaining how those differences are used against us for control. That's all.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is an actual thing. Are you disputing that too?

A rock or a stone is an actual thing - The Dunning-Kruger effect is a theory, constructed within a society obsessed with heirarchy.

[Wombaticus Rex]

A rock or a stone is an actual thing - The Dunning-Kruger effect is a theory, constructed within a society obsessed with heirarchy.

FWIW, most species of mammalia are equally obsessed with social hierarchy, and every bit as vocal about it, too.

[coffin_dodger]

A rock or a stone is an actual thing - The Dunning-Kruger effect is a theory, constructed within a society obsessed with heirarchy.

FWIW, most species of mammalia are equally obsessed with social hierarchy, and every bit as vocal about it, too.

And therein lies yet another fallacy - that we have risen above the 'animals' - giving us carte blanche to treat them as inferior - when we have, in fact, quite clearly not.

[Sounder]

To be fair, some people really are smarter than most others, and some people really are stupid.

Yes. So what?

My main problem with stupid people is that so many of them are absolutely convinced that they're really smart (the Dunning-Kruger effect, they simply don't have the mental capacity to understand that they are stupid, which can be incredibly infuriating.

That’s funny because in my experience it is the ‘smart’ ones that think they are smarter than they actually are.

I know at least one person who is literally dumb as a brick and convinced he's a genius.

The eight ‘smart’ students in my small high school were hardly any smarter than the admittedly less gifted students. But they had decent memories so they could repeat back fairly reliably to the teacher what was said. This is not a very impressive thing when looked at like this.

‘Smart’ people are more adept at identifying categories and correspondences, but (most) always in terms of (socially constructed) existing forms and understanding. So while the real smart people established their historical worth by upending existing understanding, by creating new categories and correspondences, most ‘smart’ folk are happy to function as willing enforcers of normative thinking.

We become whatever we build our identities around so my choice was to not build mine around, what I view(ed) as essentially, social climbing through mutual validation of fashionable delusions.

This can be left for the ‘smart’ people.

[DrEvil]

Sounder said:

That’s funny because in my experience it is the ‘smart’ ones that think they are smarter than they actually are.

Probably shouldn't say this, but here goes: Another thing Dunning-Kruger points out is that stupid people think smart people are stupid.

[DrEvil]

Dr Evil said:

Are you disputing that people have varying intelligence? Or that IQ is irrelevant?

Neither. I'm explaining how those differences are used against us for control. That's all.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is an actual thing. Are you disputing that too?

A rock or a stone is an actual thing - The Dunning-Kruger effect is a theory, constructed within a society obsessed with heirarchy.

Society isn't obsessed with hierarchy, our species is. Society is a product of that, not the other way around.

Actually "a rock or a stone" is pretty much the same thing, but yes, Dunning-Kruger is a theory that works (as in - it can point out general trends, not absolute black and white truths).

I disagree with your notion that 'intelligence' is a scam used to control us. For instance - prisons are full of dumb people, not because we as a society want to lock them up (as a distinct group), but because dumb people do dumb shit (more often than smart people) and get locked up for it.

[coffin_dodger]

For instance - prisons are full of dumb people, not because we as a society want to lock them up (as a distinct group), but because dumb people do dumb shit (more often than smart people) and get locked up for it.

that tallies perfectly with the number of Wall Street Executives that have received jail sentences.

We'll have to beg to differ, I think.