The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:34 am

They have been burning Hillary's wagon with this silly email business and I have wondered what that is all about. I suspect that is either to make her look pristine because in the mind of the American public "my god if an email account is the worst she is a saint! ".....maybe just to soak up the air time in the media so that nothing really serious can come out like....well never mind i'm not going there but trust me its bad. Worse than most people would ever imagine.


I guess I'm one of few who actually does care about the email business. NPR has made it clear most self-respecting Democrats consider it part of the 'vast right-wing conspiracy' attack on Mrs. Clinton and not worthy of further discussion, but as a former reporter with some knowledge about how FOIA and public records work, I find it extremely disturbing to have a Secretary of State doing government business on a private email account, considering a private email is ostensibly exempt from the disclosure laws that normally apply to any normal governmental correspondence. And then you have the ridiculous excuses made for such a setup and the fake ignorance, such as her reply to a question about wiping a server "with a cloth?"
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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby backtoiam » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:43 am

I understand. But what I was thinking, considering the level these people play at, and the dirt they have on each other, that they wouldn't roll one another over about a detail like an email account. If they wanted to roll her over they could roll her over for things so much worse that it wouldn't even be funny. I think they flip these things into the media a lot of times just to keep the media tied up on things that won't ultimately go anywhere. If they wanted to pop her there is so much worse they could do to her that an email account would look losing a box of girl scout cookies. There is some some massive devastating alternatives they could pull into this in her past but obviously they don't want to.
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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby zangtang » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:14 am

Vince foster cries for vengeance!

- something about a square of carpet cut from the floor?
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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby Luther Blissett » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:48 am

Elvis » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:12 am wrote:Read/Don't Read Notice (R/DRN): the following is a needless expression of malformed opinions and reactionary speculations. Under the rules of Fair Use (FU), they may be freely rejected, ignored, attacked, condemned or ridiculed without restriction. The author reserves all rights not to be taken seriously. "Trump" here means a card in a suit any of whose cards will win over a card that is not in this suit. For more information, reread this paragraph.

Trump is one of the better arguments against democracy. He could win—but wouldn't it be interesting if Trump won the popular vote but not the electoral vote? Would Trump or his herdcore followers take lying down the way Kerry, Gore and a detumescent Democratic party did, even when the vote itself was obviously in question? Street actions wouldn't be like Occupy.

If I was Trump, I'd mobilize the "open carry" clubs and gangs into paramilitary groups, maybe give them some snappy uniforms to wear. With a little goading of the lock-n-load crowd, there's no telling where things could go (straight to hell comes to mind). A lot of people would join just to be on the safe side. Then on election day, have them do that self-appointed wingnut 'poll monitor' thing, checking ID and all that. In areas with snail-mail voting, concentrate on beating up local candidates, smashing up offices etc.

Okay whatever, so say Trump wins. As president he could fold those units into the Natural Guard system, but keep them separate as his special counterterrorist squads.

Wait, how did this happen?

What kind of deals might Trump make in the coming year? Could vulnerable voting machines play an unexpected role? Between now and then, could Trump be successfully flattered, mollified and/or compromised to the point that he and the entrenched warbucks/intel crowd can get along with each other? Wouldn't all parties to that understanding actually be loving it?


You're pretty much putting into words some thought experiments I've given myself.

Related question: I know that this campaign cycle started ludicrously early…what is a typical historical timeframe for past candidates and winners? How late could a campaign theoretically start in 2016?
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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:30 pm

Or...how about "Sanders is a Hillary Plant to energize the base and bury Emailgate?"

Why Sanders’ Win Is Good for Clinton

The socialist senator has been a saving grace for the Clinton campaign. Best to keep him around as long as possible.

By Howard Gutman

2/10/2016

Clintonworld is shaken up. Dismayed by a small victory in Iowa and a big loss in New Hampshire—the campaign is reportedly making big changes to deal with Bernie Sanders, who is, they fear, siphoning support from Hillary Clinton’s flagging campaign.

That’s one way to think about Sanders. Here’s another: If Sanders hadn’t existed, Clinton should have paid big money to invent him.

This campaign season, the socialist senator has been a gift to Clinton. He’s pumped a huge amount of oxygen into a race that could easily have been starved for attention. And even more importantly, he’s made sure that the biggest story in the race isn’t Clinton’s own background. Clinton fans might lament her 22-point loss to him in the New Hampshire primary on Tuesday. But taking a hit in New Hampshire is a small price to pay to keep so useful an opponent around as long as necessary.

For a long time, it seemed that Hillary Clinton's main opponent was going to be Hillary Clinton. Upon completing her tenure as secretary of state, boasting sky-high approval ratings and name recognition, Clinton seemed a lock for her party’s presidential nomination. No relevant Democrat was willing to challenge her. For all his media-trained to-run or not-to-run angst, Joe Biden learned years ago how to read polls and knew his current gig as vice president was also his last hurrah. Virginia Sens. Mark Warner and Tim Kaine, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo and every other potentially serious Democrat knew better than to waste political capital going against Clinton in 2016.

Clinton therefore faced the prospect of hanging around playing solitaire until the summer of 2016 while the Republican traveling circus, offering far more than three rings of entertainment, mesmerized the press and the American public. At her nervous-giggle best, Clinton has never been the life of the party; as a solo act, Clinton would have America changing the channel. July 2016, when Clinton’s race against a GOP nominee would officially begin, would have been awfully late for the plodding Clinton to try to sprint from a flat-footed start into America’s fondness.

And, as it turned out, the risk that she’d be unable to attract meaningful media attention was not even close to Clinton’s biggest problem: In July, last year, a serious challenger—Emailgate—emerged.

Even more than a primary opponent, Emailgate would never fight fair. With no one understanding the State Department’s two different, totally separate email systems—the normal, unprotected (whether using the State Department’s server or Hillary’s home server) one relying on unprotected BlackBerries and desktops to which anyone could and did send any material at any time and the hard-to-access, rarely used, laptop accessible-only protected one that would stamp emails “Classified”—Emailgate could assume whatever size and grotesque features a journalist or Republican chose to ascribe to it. Absent a real primary contest to draw some attention and with Clinton alone in the public eye, Emailgate threatened to appear and undermine every Clinton rally, interview and media hit as her campaign went on.

What Clinton oh-so desperately needed was a rival just credible enough to stir up the grass roots, generate enough excitement for the debates at least to go forward, and attract early wind in the first two march-to-their-own-beat states of Iowa and New Hampshire. A rival who could then use those gusts and the media’s and public’s longing for a close race to sputter through the process toward the summer as long as stubbornly possible, all the while diverting some attention from the emails in the room.

No one too serious, mind you. And certainly no one who could pull off an upset.

Martin O’Malley? Too Dennis-the-Menace milquetoast to get the job done. Jim Webb? Lincoln Chaffee? Wrong party.

Bernie Sanders: Come on down. Please be careful not to trip on your way; Ms. Clinton needs you to go as far as you can toward Philadelphia.

You might have thought him an unlikely challenger: True, he is 74 years old and a socialist who openly proclaims that he is not so much running for president as starting a revolution. True, he likely could not have launched a political career in any city other than Burlington nor progressed in any state other than Vermont.

But, after all, more than 40 percent of the Democrats in Iowa claim to be socialists, and New Hampshire borders Vermont. The young, for their part, don’t know enough history to realize that Sanders has always been considered an asterisk in American politics. He is, moreover, a nice man and brings his own bundle of excitement wherever he goes.

Sanders is, in short, the perfect partner to convert Clinton’s lethargic game of solitaire into a spirited game of rummy. And while Sanders is not strong enough to divert all attention from Emailgate, he does make many voters focus from time to time on “the race” and “the issues” that the next president will have to deal with.

So far, this has all been playing out perfectly for Clinton. Had she scored a major victory in Iowa, or had she made a comeback to win New Hampshire, Sanders’ money might very well have dried up. Clinton would be on her own again, looking for a red queen to put on a black king and debating daily and publicly her prior choice in mobile phones.

But Sanders came through. The virtual tie in the Iowa primary and his big win in New Hampshire will let Sanders go on, even as the race turns to states that believe socialists merit exorcism. A good result for Sanders. And thus an even better one for Clinton.
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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:09 pm

Donald Trump: I would be ‘neutral’ on Israel and Palestine
Newsweek
19 Feb 2016 at 07:52 ET

Image
Donald Trump (AFP Photo/Darren McCollester)

February 18, 2016
Taylor Wofford
Posted with permission from Newsweek

While most Republicans (and most Democrats) come down squarely on the side of Israel in its decades-old and highly complicated fight with Palestinians, Donald Trump has declared that he’d be neutral.

"I think it's probably the toughest agreement of any kind to make," Trump said of a potential peace deal. "It's possible it's not makeable," he told a questioner at a town hall with MSNBC's Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski.

While the U.S. has long tried to play a role brokering peace between Israel and the Palestinian National Authority, which represents the Gaza Strip and parts of the West Bank, most American politicians go out of the way to emphasize the special ties between the U.S. and Israel.

The author of The Art of the Deal didn’t underscore those historic bonds, preferring to dwell on the difficulties of forging an accord. "Whose fault do you think it is that there hasn't been peace: the Israelis or the Palestinians?" Scarborough asked Trump.

"I don't want to get into it," Trump replied. "If I do win, there has to be a certain amount of surprise, unpredictability. If I win, I don’t want to be in a position where I’m saying to you…and the other side now says, 'We don’t want Trump involved.'

"I don't want to say whose fault it is. I don't think that helps," he added.

Trump's Republican rivals have been decidedly less neutral on the issue. Ted Cruz was once booed off a stage for supporting Israel, and Marco Rubio has criticized Trump for his tepid support of the U.S. ally in the past. "This is not a real estate deal with two sides arguing over money. It’s a struggle to safeguard the future of Israel," Rubio said.

All of the GOP candidates have criticized the Obama administration's role in forging an international agreement with Iran to curtail its nuclear program. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has vigorously opposed the Iran treaty and the GOP candidates have made it a point that the agreement would threaten Israel as well as the United States. Trump said that the treaty sold out Israel, endorsed Netanyahu’s 2013 re-election bid and has touted his role as grand marshal of the annual Celebrate Israel parade in New York.


Check my tally: so Hillary gets the Mexicans, Muslims and Jews. Trump gets racists.

The conspiracy seems a little less crazy by the day.
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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby Grizzly » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:44 pm

The truth changes, it's the lies that stay the same...
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby backtoiam » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:44 pm

another little Trump tidbit, he wants the iphone unlocked, now....how comforting...

Trump calls for Apple boycott
Posted on February 19, 2016 by Admin

The Hill

Presidential candidate Donald Trump has called on his supporters to boycott Apple until it agrees to help the FBI unlock an iPhone used by one of the San Bernardino shooters.

“What I think you ought to do is boycott Apple until such time they give that security number,” Trump said at a rally in South Carolina.

“I just thought of it,” the GOP front-runner added. “Boycott Apple.”

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity ... le-boycott
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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:01 pm

The most exasperating thing about analyzing Trump's run -- his magnificent, magnificent run, has there ever been a campaign this entertaining in our lifetime? I bare-ass defy anyone to make a credible case -- but, the worst-est thing is how often the positions that he takes could just as easily be the free association rantings of a guy who really holds these positions and would be an egomaniac reactionary force demolishing bipartisan consensus in favor of what works for the working class as it could be the calculated rhetorical work of an operative who was deliberately trying to alienate a broad demographic swath of voters who are necessary to win an election and drive votes to Clinton.

In other words, he skews very close to the role, either way. It's an impressive performance.

Especially since, like Sanders, Trump might awaken some demographic shifts via huge turnout from(statistically) traditional non-voters.
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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby backtoiam » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:10 pm

I agree Wombat. ..And....Apparently? this super delegate business will be the Queen Of The Ball? How do you beat the super delegate if you are Bernie, or Trump, though? Obviously the 'super delegate' is a playaaa....?
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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby Luther Blissett » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:51 pm

backtoiam » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:10 pm wrote:I agree Wombat. ..And....Apparently? this super delegate business will be the Queen Of The Ball? How do you beat the super delegate if you are Bernie, or Trump, though? Obviously the 'super delegate' is a playaaa....?


Foment civil unrest when the popular vote very clearly illustrates one thing and the conventions very clearly do the opposite.
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Postby IanEye » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:08 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:01 pm wrote:The most exasperating thing about analyzing Trump's run -- his magnificent, magnificent run, has there ever been a campaign this entertaining in our lifetime? I bare-ass defy anyone to make a credible case --



I take your point, but for me Stockdale remains my benchmark.
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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby Project Willow » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:52 pm

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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:11 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:01 pm wrote:The most exasperating thing about analyzing Trump's run -- his magnificent, magnificent run, has there ever been a campaign this entertaining in our lifetime? I bare-ass defy anyone to make a credible case -- but, the worst-est thing is how often the positions that he takes could just as easily be the free association rantings of a guy who really holds these positions and would be an egomaniac reactionary force demolishing bipartisan consensus in favor of what works for the working class as it could be the calculated rhetorical work of an operative who was deliberately trying to alienate a broad demographic swath of voters who are necessary to win an election and drive votes to Clinton.

In other words, he skews very close to the role, either way. It's an impressive performance.

Especially since, like Sanders, Trump might awaken some demographic shifts via huge turnout from(statistically) traditional non-voters.


from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... tion,_1968

United States presidential election, 1968

The United States presidential election of 1968 was the 46th quadrennial presidential election, held on Tuesday, November 5, 1968. The Republican nominee, former Vice President Richard Nixon, won the election over the Democratic nominee, incumbent Vice President Hubert Humphrey. Analysts have argued the election of 1968 was a major realigning election as it permanently disrupted the New Deal Coalition that had dominated presidential politics for 36 years.

The election year was tumultuous; it was marked by the assassination of civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr., subsequent race riots across the nation, the assassination of Democratic presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy and widespread opposition to the Vietnam War across university campuses. Incumbent President Lyndon B. Johnson, who had won a landslide victory for the Democratic Party four years earlier, declined to seek election amid growing discontent over the Vietnam War and his worse-than-expected showing in the New Hampshire primary. The 1968 Democratic National Convention was a scene of violent confrontations between police and anti-war protesters as the Democrats split into multiple factions.

Richard Nixon ran on a campaign that promised to restore law and order to the nation's cities and provide new leadership in the Vietnam War. He popularized the term "silent majority" to describe those he viewed as being his target voters. He won the popular vote by a narrow margin of 0.7% and obtained a far wider 301-191 victory in the Electoral College. The election also featured a strong third party effort by former Alabama Governor George Wallace, a vocal advocate for racial segregation in public schools. He carried several states in the Deep South and ran well in some ethnic enclave industrial districts in the North. This is the last election where at least one state was carried by a third-party candidate. (In 1972 John Hospers received a vote from a faithless elector in Virginia but did not carry any states.)

This was the first election after the passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, which had led to mass enfranchisement of racial minorities throughout the country, especially in the South. It was the last election in which New York had the most votes in the electoral college (43 votes). After the 1970 census, California gained the most electoral votes and has remained the most populous state since then. It was the most recent election in which the victorious national ticket failed to carry the vice presidential candidate's home state and the only time an incumbent vice president ran against a former vice president for the presidency.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 1968 persidential campaign was a watershed election cycle. See above. There were assassinations, riots, a controverisal hot war, and major changes in civil and voting rights.

I first was of age to vote in 1972 but was most personally active ever in 1968 because of location and circumstance. That period formed what became my lifetime political philosophy but I have never again taken such an active role.. I was living in the SF Bay area going to boarding school. My roommate's mother was big in Democratic Party politics. She later lost the Democratic Party primary election for Nevada Senator to Harry Reid. Eric's sister was Eugene McCarthy's daughters roommate at another boarding school.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/M ... 517389.php

I was already anti-war and was thus influenced by the Episcopal seminarians that were dorm masters at another boarding school attended from 1966-1968 (8th and 9th grades when I discovered Haight-Ashbury, pot, and live rock and roll). I went to anti-war rallies in Berkeley and San Francisco on my own time, on school field trips, and with Eric and his mother in 1968-1969. I went to rallies for Eugene McCarthy, Hubert Humphrey, and George Wallace in San Francisco. I got to meet and have meals with McCarthy because Eric's family came to San Francisco when McCarthy came to campaign in San Francisco and we all stayed at the Clift Hotel and we kids went to see Credence Clearwater at Fillmore West.

Eric (RIP) tuned me on to Philip K Dick and Frank Zappa and Heathkits.

One thing that is different now is the large number of white gun fetishists and the lack of the right wing armed militia movement in 1968.

Still I do not think mass violent civil disobedience is likely as there are checks in place (homeland security and militarized law enforcement) that would stomp such situations in the bud. Some prime real estate might burn for redevelopment like New Orleans and Katrina but organized social violence is not likely over the short term to challenge the neoliberal status quo.

Hillary Clinton and Trump and the entire GOP clown car creep me out. The illusion of a democratic republic died with the 2000 election, the end of the Fairness Doctrine, 9-11, and all the financial corruption. Clinton and Trump have more in common than they do with potential constituents. That said Clinton is a vote for the status quo, Trump a vote for a truly different dystopia, and Sanders for the people but likely to fail even if allowed to be elected POTUS.

The current POTUS campaign appears to be a reality show aimed at the lowest common denominator and designed social fragmentation more than a serious attempt to serve the interests of a nation and its citizens.

Call me gloomy and cynical.
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Re: The "Trump Is A Hillary Plant" Conspiracy...Crazy?

Postby Grizzly » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:26 pm

On a close, but different note: Halford for queen of England 2016! ...lmao!

“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

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