Mass sexual assaults in Cologne

[divideandconquer]

This is all mass production propagenda. I don't even know why I'm posting in reply as well as why it's even posted here as it's all over the interwebs. Fuck these meme's the attention given to them 9nly service to catapult the propagenda. ... I will say however, if these events are truly coordinated they are being pushed to further the tension, methodically. I however will not be pushing THEIR fear based tactics for them.

My feelings exactly.

[Project Willow]

First post by a woman in this thread, and frankly I swore off RI for the holidays because it is so, so entirely toxic for me these last several months.

http://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/01/07/its-time-to-consider-a-curfew-on-men/
(Links in original)
It’s time to consider a curfew on men

You’ve had your chance, bepenised ones. And you’ve blown it. What you’ve proven, time and time again, is that you cannot be trusted to behave yourselves after dark. In Germany, about 1000 men are reported to have arrived to the Cologne Cathedral area on New Years Eve, intending to sexually assault and mug as many women as possible. The CBC reports, “Some 121 women are reported to have been robbed, threatened, or sexually molested there by gangs of mostly drunk men between 18 and 35 years old while out celebrating.” Similar attacks took place in Hamburg and Stuttgart as well. One victim told N-TV in Germany:

“At around 11pm we were at the main train station and wanted to travel on to see the fireworks, and that was when we first noticed all these men standing around. We managed to go into the cathedral and wanted to go past the Museum Ludwig to join everyone and watch the fireworks by the river, but suddenly we were surrounded by a group of between 20 and 30 men.

They were full of anger, and we had to make sure that none of us were pulled away by them. They were groping us and we were trying to get away as quickly as possible.”

Another victim, named only as Katja L, told Der Express:

“I was groped everywhere. It was a nightmare. Although we shouted and beat them, the guys did not stop. I was desperate and think I was touched around 100 times in the 200 meters. Fortunately I wore a jacket and trousers. A skirt would probably have been torn away from me.”

After a series of assaults on campus at UBC, “the general public” (let’s call them “women,” why don’t we) were warned to “remain extra vigilant of their surroundings and take every precaution to enhance their personal safety” when walking alone at night or, alternatively, have a campus escort accompany them to their destination.

Similarly, after the attacks in Germany, the Mayor of Cologne, Henriette Reker, suggested keeping “a certain distance of more than an arm’s length” from unknown men and told women that, “they should go out and have fun, but they need to be better prepared, especially with the Cologne carnival coming up.” She went on to say that there will be “online guidelines that these young women can read through to prepare themselves.”

Female students are under constant threat on college campuses — afraid to walk home at night, raped at parties, after the bar, and in their dorms. Despite the fact that male violence can and does happen at all hours, it is at night — walking to their cars, clutching their keys as they travel from the bus stop to their front doors, lying awake at night wondering what that sound is outside their windows, as well as during drunken celebrations like on New Years Eve or simply while out on Friday night — when women often feel most fearful of attack.

There are solutions: a feminist revolution; real consequences for men who rape, harass, and abuse women; ensuring women are financially independent and that they are able to leave abusers safely; a cultural shift that addresses male entitlement, porn culture, and the objectifying male gaze; an end to masculinity and, more broadly, gendered socialization that says men are actors whereas women are passive recipients of men’s “action” — that is, the idea that men are to “get” sex from women, which positions coercion as a normal and expected part of heterosexual relations… All of that. All of that would help. But while we’re working on that (with little help even from liberal feminists who claim a desire to end to rape culture, something they mysteriously separate from all the rest of that stuff), what are women to do? How long will it take for generations of men to shed the deeply ingrained notion that women’s bodies are for them and that sex is one of their natural born rights as men? Particularly when progressive and even other so-called “feminists” are fighting tooth and nail to ensure men continue to believe sex is a right, not a privilege?

In the meantime, women live in fear. We are attacked by large groups of drunk, aggressive men while ringing in the New Year. We double lock all our doors and windows but still can’t sleep at night. We fear those who drive us home at night. In the meantime, we are not safe and men — most men — are given free reign to behave however they wish, as most men who rape, harass, and abuse are not punished.

While, yes, men are violent during the day and while, yes, a curfew would not resolve the problem of patriarchy and male violence against women, it does, in a way, address entitlement and privilege. While, in some ways, my argument here began facetiously, the more I consider the idea of a curfew for men, the more it makes sense. Why should men, if they have proven time and time again that they cannot — will not — leave women alone, stop harassing, raping, drugging, stalking, catcalling, groping, flashing, be permitted to move about freely in this world? We — women — are the ones who suffer and who feel afraid.

And who is it we fear? Is it other women? Is it ghosts (Ok, yes, sometimes, if you are me, it is ghosts — but only while sleeping in large, old, creaky houses)? Is it a genderless, faceless, bodiless being? No. It is a male. A male with a penis that he may or may not use as a weapon.

“What real impact would a curfew have?” you might ask. Certainly it would send the message that we are taking men’s behaviour seriously and that it is no longer acceptable. Certainly it would allow women to move about more safely at night — on campus, in their homes, at bars, at the bus stop. Certainly it would name the problem. It would say, unequivocally, “The problem is you, men. You are the problem, and therefore, it is you who must be stopped.”

Think of it as a mass grounding for men. After a designated period of time, we’ll allow them back on the streets after dark to see how it goes. If the sexual assaults and harassment continue, well, it’s back to the curfew.

I mean, really, they asked for it.

This is obviously a polemic, and I can't speak with any informed authority whatsoever as to whether the incidents were overblown in service to political agendas, however, it is absolutely egregious that the female Mayor would react to these reports with instructions targeted to women and their behavior and not men, whomever they may be.

I've been so disillusioned over the past few years, seeing coverage of "feminist" issues in online media outlets, thinking that the younger generation and left leaning men were gaining awareness and coming around, thinking women were gaining power and western culture beginning to improve. Ha! I was completely mistaken. My brand of feminism is as much on the outs today as it ever was. What I was witnessing was a brief flailing before the opposition reorganized for renewed counter-attack. The pernicious nature of the gender hierarchy makes me feel like it has some sort of base point that can't be overcome, even though I know intellectually, culture is its ultimate master, and my brief lifetime too short to make accurate assessments.

[RocketMan]

First post by a woman in this thread, and frankly I swore off RI for the holidays because it is so, so entirely toxic for me these last several months.

I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope you hang in there, you're an extremely valuable and valued voice here. It wouldn't be the same without your perspective.

[Nordic]

I have a 20 year old stepdaughter in her sophomore year at USC. And I am absolutely appalled at the fraternity culture that permeates that place, and how it is accepted, and even supported, without question. It's truly a thing if the distant past and has no place in the 21st century. It's exacerbated by the university being surrounded by some truly crime-ridden povert-stricken neighborhoods, so on weekends the fears can easily lure in damn near every female on campus to their date-rape festivals since there's pretty much no other game in town, especially within walking/bicycling distance. One night after I dropped off my girl, almost every female I saw was dressed in "sexy schoolgirl" outfits, most of them, well, pretty damn sexy. It was the "theme" of every frat on "The Row" that night. The girls buy into it completely (well about 95% of them it seems) and seem completely clueless as to how they're being used. So glad my girl is one of the few who doesn't buy into that culture, but it's just luck that she doesnt (or maybe I helped raise her right, maybe). The Greek system needs to go. Abolish it. Ban it. You might as well have black guys in uniforms doing slave labor at the houses. (And they would do this, too, if they could get away with it).

OT i know. Apologies.

The curfew actually isn't a bad idea. But who would enforce it? You'd need a force of female cops, just for that.

I do NOT understand this kind of male behavior. I do not possess whatever gene must exist in these men.

[Heaven Swan]

On Perilous Migrant Trail, Women Often Become Prey to Sexual Abuse

New York Times article
By KATRIN BENNHOLDJAN. Jan 2, 2016

BERLIN — One Syrian woman who joined the stream of migrants to Germany was forced to pay down her husband’s debt to smugglers by making herself available for sex along the way. Another was beaten unconscious by a Hungarian prison guard after refusing his advances.

A third, a former makeup artist, dressed as a boy and stopped washing to ward off the men in her group of refugees. Now in an emergency shelter in Berlin, she still sleeps in her clothes and, like several women here, pushes a cupboard in front of her door at night.

“There is no lock or key or anything,” said Esraa al-Horani, the makeup artist and one of the few women here not afraid to give her name. She has been lucky, Ms. Horani said: “I’ve only been beaten and robbed.”

War and violence at home, exploitative smugglers and perilous seas along the way, an uncertain welcome and future on a foreign continent — these are some of the risks faced by tens of thousands of migrants who continue to make their way to Europe from the Middle East and beyond. But at each step of the way, the dangers are amplified for women.

Photo

Esraa al-Horani, from Syria, at a refugee shelter in Berlin in November. She still sleeps in her clothes and, like several women at the shelter, pushes a cupboard in front of her door at night.

Interviews with dozens of migrants, social workers and psychologists caring for traumatized new arrivals across Germany suggest that the current mass migration has been accompanied by a surge of violence against women. From forced marriages and sex trafficking to domestic abuse, women report violence from fellow refugees, smugglers, male family members and even European police officers. There are no reliable statistics for sexual and other abuse of female refugees.

Among the more than one million migrants who have entered Europe over the past year, fleeing war and poverty in the Middle East and beyond, men outnumber women by more than three to one, United Nations statistics show. “The men dominate, numerically and otherwise,” says Heike Rabe, a gender expert at the German Institute for Human Rights.

Susanne Höhne, the lead psychotherapist at a center in west Berlin specializing in treating traumatized female migrants, says that almost all of the 44 women in her care — some barely adults, some over 60 — have experienced sexual violence. “We go to our own therapists for supervision twice a month to cope with what we hear,” Ms. Höhne said about her 18 staff members. Together they provide two weekly therapy sessions to each woman and up to seven hours of social work, including home visits, to help them with adjusting to life in Germany.

A 30-year-old Syrian mother of four fled the war with her family early last year. When her husband ran out of money to pay their smuggler in Bulgaria, he offered his wife as payment instead. For three months, she was raped almost daily to earn her family’s onward journey.

Soon her own husband was abusing her, too. A “twisted logic,” Ms. Höhne said. “What her husband made her do ended up tainting his honor. She became the guilty party.”

The woman now has asylum and lives in Berlin with her children. Her husband, who lives elsewhere in Germany but has stalked her on the street in Berlin at least once, is under a restraining order. But she remains too terrified to provide even her first name, for fear of being killed by him or another relative over the perception that she brought “dishonor” to the family.

Ms. Höhne says the woman displays all the symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, including flashbacks, insomnia and trouble concentrating. “One moment she will seem perfectly healthy, the next she is in her chair opposite you dodging bullets in Damascus or reliving her abuse in Bulgaria,” she said.

In Greece, one of the main entry points to Europe for migrants, reception centers are often overcrowded and lack adequate lighting and separate spaces for single women, said William Spindler of the United Nations refugee agency. “Men, women and children sleep in the same areas,” he said. Across Europe, he added, “cases of sexual violence and family violence have been reported to our staff in the field.”

Even in the relative safety of Germany, an asylum system struggling with the logistics of accommodating close to one million migrants in 2015 has been cutting corners when it comes to basic protections for women, like lockable bedrooms.

“The priority has been to avoid homelessness,” said Ms. Rabe, the German expert on gender-based violence. “But an environment that inadvertently facilitates violence is a risk factor. We cannot allow standards to slip.”

That is easier said than done, said Jan Schebaum, who manages two homes for asylum seekers in east Berlin. There are two bathrooms per floor, and the rooms are full.

One of the homes he runs is the emergency shelter where Ms. Horani, the makeup artist, stays. Of 120 adults there, most are Syrian and Afghan, and 80 are men.

“The women are in the shadow of the men,” Mr. Schebaum said. “Their voices are drowned out, and it’s a problem.”

Photo

Samar danced at a women's "coffee hour" at a local cafe organized by the shelter in Berlin. Credit Djamila Grossman for The New York Times


At the food counter, where volunteers hand out hot soup and fresh fruit, the women are often last in line. They stay in their rooms a lot and rarely sign up for activities advertised on the notice board, like museum visits or concerts. One Syrian woman has not left the building since arriving two months ago because her husband, who has not yet arrived in Germany, prohibited her from doing so.

In the laundry room, stories of domestic abuse circulate in hushed conversations among the women. There is a violently jealous husband on the fourth floor who has beaten his wife. There is a woman who has been beaten by her husband because they cannot have children. A couple of months ago, two Afghan men harassed an Afghan girl with lewd comments and pushed her off her bike before others intervened, a volunteer at the shelter said. But few incidents of violence are reported.

The asylum claims of married couples are often linked, Ms. Rabe said, making the women more dependent on their husbands and more reluctant to be separated. In theory, German law is well equipped to deal with domestic violence, she said. But in practice, measures like the physical separation of partners are hard to carry out inside a shelter.

The first time Mr. Schebaum learned about a husband beating up his wife he called the police, only to find the wife shouting at him for “stealing her husband.” Since then, he deals with reports of violence mostly through mediation, and by trying to empower the women in his homes.

Last month one of his volunteers started a weekly walk for women. Even husbands who were initially skeptical allowed their wives to go. One woman left the premises for the first time. In the park she played a song on her cellphone and started dancing. “The longer we were outside, the more confident she became,” recalled the volunteer, Vivien Roos, a 34-year-old yoga teacher.

There is now an all-women knitting evening and an aerobics class. On Wednesday mornings, small groups of women go to the house of a volunteer for a private shower, nail-painting and grooming session.

One afternoon a week, female social workers take migrant women to a cafe across the street for a “coffee hour.” The walls are covered in graffiti, and it smells of smoke. But no matter. When Ms. Horani arrived with a large Arabic music selection on her smartphone, the scruffy interior was transformed into a bobbing sea of dancing head scarves.

As some women painted their hands with henna and others traded frustrations about the time it was taking to get refugee status, Samar, a 35-year-old former employee of the Syrian Finance Ministry, opened up about the particular stress of being a woman on the move. Bombed out of her home in Darayya, a suburb of Damascus that early in the civil war became known for antigovernment protests, Samar spent 14 months on the road alone with her three daughters, ages 2, 8 and 13.

“I did not leave them out of my sight for one minute,” she said in Arabic, speaking through an interpreter. She and other single mothers slept in shifts along the way, watching over their daughters and one another.

But in Izmir, Turkey, about to board a boat to Greece, Samar was robbed and left with no money to pay the smuggler. A stocky man who called himself Omar, he offered to take her for free, but only if she had sex with him. Samar had heard him before, at night, in the hostel where she and other refugee women were staying, “going to this room and that.”

“Everybody knows there are two ways of paying the smugglers,” she said. “With money or with your body.”

But she refused, and Omar became angry. That night he burst into Samar’s room, threatening her and her daughters before her screaming chased him away. Samar stayed in Turkey for almost a year to work and save up the 4,000 euros needed for the remainder of the journey.

Sitting with her youngest daughter curled on her lap, Samar concluded: “Almost all men in the world are bad.”

Across town, in west Berlin, Ms. Höhne sympathized, but had a more nuanced view. There are no easy solutions, she said. Female-only shelters are not an option because most families want to stay together. Some women rely on men for protection. And, she added, “We mustn’t forget many of the men are traumatized, too.”

“There is no black and white, good and evil,” she said. “If we want to help the women, we need to help the men, too.”

[Heaven Swan]

Quoted from above New York Times article:

Susanne Höhne, the lead psychotherapist at a center in west Berlin specializing in treating traumatized female migrants, says that almost all of the 44 women in her care — some barely adults, some over 60 — have experienced sexual violence.

The percentage sounds about the same as here in the west.

[82_28]

I fail to see where anything about the board has become toxic. Care to point out some glaring examples, Willow? I'd like to see them. If anything it's a dull roar of something or another. If anything it's petty bullshit on and off the board in which people don't respect other's boundaries given time and circumstance.

At least a synopsis of what you recall would be cool!

[Wombaticus Rex]

Quoted from above New York Times article:

Susanne Höhne, the lead psychotherapist at a center in west Berlin specializing in treating traumatized female migrants, says that almost all of the 44 women in her care — some barely adults, some over 60 — have experienced sexual violence.

The percentage sounds about the same as here in the west.

Squares with my experience as well.

I fail to see where anything about the board has become toxic. Care to point out some glaring examples, Willow? I'd like to see them.

Great idea, we never do stuff like this. I think if we tried, it should work out really well. We all have good intentions here.

[parel]

things suddenly got a lot more scary.

‘Cologne-Style’ Attacks on Women Reported in Austria, Switzerland


Several women were robbed and sexually harassed in Austria and Switzerland, on New Year's Eve, and there have been about many similar cases also reported in Hamburg and other German cities with the victims saying that they had been robbed, groped and molested by groups of “dark-skinned men,” an Austrian newspaper reported.

The attacks in Salzburg and Zurich were reported within hours of similar assaults in Cologne where numerous criminal complaints have been filed about robbery and sexual abuse, including two reported rapes by perpetrators who allegedly staged orchestrated attacks on mainly female revelers in the crowds, Der Standard wrote on Thursday.
Several cases of sexual assaults and robberies have been reported also in Stuttgart, Dusseldorf, Munich and Frankfurt.

Picture taken on December 31, 2015 shows people gathering in front of the main railway station in Cologne, western Germany
© AFP 2015/ MARKUS BOEHM / DPA
Picture taken on December 31, 2015 shows people gathering in front of the main railway station in Cologne, western Germany
Cologne police said on Tuesday that ninety criminal incidents, many involving sexual assaults, were reported following New Year's Eve celebrations in the city.

Women hold up placards that read Mrs. Merkel: Where are you? What are you saying? This worries us! and Thanks (Cologne mayor Henriette) Reker!! Poor Cologne (R) during a protest in front of the Cologne Cathedral, Germany, January 5, 2016
© REUTERS/ WOLFGANG RATTAY
'Beyond Description': Leaked Police Report Reveals Horrific Details of Cologne Sex Attacks
The victims described the attackers as gangs of intoxicated Arab or North African men between the ages of 15 and 35.
Many of the assaults were apparently meant to distract, allowing attackers to snip wallets, cellphones and other devices. Those who tried to fight off the assailants were told in no uncertain terms to get back or face the consequences.

Media reports said that the attacks appeared to have been organized as around 1,000 young men arrived in large groups, seemingly with the specific intention of carrying out attacks on women.

On Thursday Cologne police said that most of the suspects in the New Year’s Eve attacks had entered the country only recently and had applied for refugee status. Many of them are migrants from Syria and North Africa.

A German ex-policeman, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that Cologne-style attacks on women are common and routinely hushed up by the authorities.



Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160108/ ... z3wgNt45dO

[stefano]

Arab men definitely feel a greater sense of entitlement to the female body in public spaces than do German men. The same could be said about Spaniards or Italians, but their living conditions in Germany aren't conducive to conformist rebllion against the host society in the same way as Arabs'. Add to that the effect of reaction against the racism and exclusion that young Arab men experience in a place like that (second-generation ones more than recent immigrants, relevantly) and it's absolutely no stretch to think that one or two gangs went out with the aim of squeezing some white chicks' tits and stealing their phones. To engage in feats of intellectual contorsionsim in order to play down this kind of thing - 'relax, love, it wasn't a big deal, and should you really have been out that late?' - does one thing only, and that's to make the nationalist parties, who get ever better at disguising their inherent racism, seem like they get it. The European left has drowned itself with such effectiveness that it's impossible not to suspect complicity.

[brekin]

Arab men definitely feel a greater sense of entitlement to the female body in public spaces than do German men. The same could be said about Spaniards or Italians, but their living conditions in Germany aren't conducive to conformist rebllion against the host society in the same way as Arabs'. Add to that the effect of reaction against the racism and exclusion that young Arab men experience in a place like that (second-generation ones more than recent immigrants, relevantly) and it's absolutely no stretch to think that one or two gangs went out with the aim of squeezing some white chicks' tits and stealing their phones. To engage in feats of intellectual contorsionsim in order to play down this kind of thing - 'relax, love, it wasn't a big deal, and should you really have been out that late?' - does one thing only, and that's to make the nationalist parties, who get ever better at disguising their inherent racism, seem like they get it. The European left has drowned itself with such effectiveness that it's impossible not to suspect complicity.

Kudos for speaking your truth. There are a dozen lazer sights pointed at you right now, but still kudos.

I agree, we can't be blind to the differing respect accorded women in different cultures and nations. Transplanting and marginalizing disenfranchised young men from these cultures isn't going to magically make them less misogynistic. Disrupting their social controls and making it harder for them to marry or have gainful employment exacerbates their inferiority and who do you lash out when that happens? Groups that you believe are inferior to you.

I'm a little surprised at the willfull dismal of the presented facts. Look at the amount of evidence there is.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/08/europe/eu ... -violence/

Cologne police spokeswoman Christoph Gilles told reporters Friday that some 170 criminal complaints have been filed related to the apparently coordinated attacks, "at least 120 of which have a sexual angle."
An 80-person investigative team is looking at 250 videos (with about 350 hours of footage), Gilles added.
The suspects include nine Algerian nationals, eight people from Morocco, five from Iran and four from Syria, German interior ministry spokesman Tobias Plate said. Two are German citizens, while one each are from Iraq, Serbia and the United States.

And is this so hard to believe? Think of the harassment and gropings that women in these cultures experience and especially a Western woman in their midst can.

As for this being a set up or over amplification for propaganda purposes. Do people really think this was a orchestrated Boston Tea party-type event with agent provocateurs disguising themselves as young males of Arab descent? Or the suspects were paid off? Or the authorities have been told to multiply and falsify the complaints? It seems if you wanted to run some anti-Arab/migrants sexual hysteria reindeer games you could do it much more effectively and higher profile wise with a more targeted, specific attacks. I mean one framed up migrant sexual serial killer would accomplish more than this.

There were probably as many or more gropings, assaults and male on female robbings in the U.S. on New Years Eve, but because the victims and perpetrators were probably much more pluralistic and less conspicuously organized it doesn't get as much play. But that shouldn't blind us to the commonalities of the perps in Germany.

I think there is definitely too much male bashing on this forum at times (and it goes without saying I'm not anti-Arab or migrant) but I don't think what happened in Cologne is completely out of the realm of possibility. But then, sadly, I roughly agree with the statement below from the article:

Sitting with her youngest daughter curled on her lap, Samar concluded: “Almost all men in the world are bad.”

[Nordic]

I don't think most are bad. It just seems that way when some are bad.

[brekin]

I don't think most are bad. It just seems that way when some are bad.

Fair enough. I go back and forth. Maybe it isn't that almost all men in the world are bad, but that they can be, or become bad. Just more susceptible to going along with whatever all their dominant conditioning (school, family, church, gov, friends, occupation, etc) has outlined for them. Some men are raised in a Mai Lai Massacre mindset, but many adopt it when it is handed to them. I like to think most men can become good. But I'm not sure. Most seem too eager too please, be accepted, or ready to do anything for a new car.

[Harvey]

I don't have a problem acknowledging the fact that shit heads come from every race, colour and culture. I can simultaneously hold in mind that one of my oldest friends a gentle and wise man, a scientist who introduced me to Kahlil Gibran and Russel Hoban is a Muslim and also that some Muslim traditions encourage parents to cut the genitals from their baby girls or cut the heads from condemned criminals or stone them to death, and not least cynically foment ideology which creates mayhem around the world while protecting and furthering their oil interests or financial relationships with and against the rivals it's 'children' learn to hate.

At the same time I have Christian friends who share their wealth with people they hardly know asking no reward but perhaps enabling the neo-liberal/neoconservative agenda through a hierarchic tradition, while another largely Christian culture wages wars of aggression each decade, wages secret wars destabilising governments of all political shades and ideologies where it suits them, kills tens of thousands of it's own every year, takes a decent death toll of it's minorities every year through those tasked to protect them, puts to death hundreds of convicted criminals each year many of them subsequently proved innocent beyond any reasonable doubt and yet fosters some of the brightest and most enlightened minds in every generation.

That's life.

All that said I found nothing in this story which satisfied a prejudice nor did I set myself against hearing evidence of a cultural disposition toward misogyny etc and so forth.

But anyone who followed this story from "MOB OF A THOUSAND MUSLIM REFUGEES SEXUALLY ABUSE WOMEN IN COLOGNE" to 18 out of 31 arrested are refugees, none charged with sexual assault, has to wonder what the fuck happened to 'western standards' of journalism.

Cowards. Cowards. Cowards.

[Project Willow]

I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope you hang in there, you're an extremely valuable and valued voice here. It wouldn't be the same without your perspective.

Thank you. Hugs to you!

I fail to see where anything about the board has become toxic. Care to point out some glaring examples, Willow? I'd like to see them.

Great idea, we never do stuff like this. I think if we tried, it should work out really well. We all have good intentions here.