Scottish Independence and the UK State

[MacCruiskeen]

Whenever Ahab has time, I look forward to hearing about his experiences of the last few weeks.

And thanks for this thread and all your work, Ahab. Wish I was there, as much to sample the mood as to vote. It's been a trip, though, even from this distance.

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Well, not long to go now.

Don't have much to say, or much time to say it in. We were never meant to reach this point. There was never meant to be a Scottish Parliament with real powers, a Scottish government that could actually challenge the UK one, and most of all there was never meant to be a free and democratic referendum on independence, with Downing Street bound by it's own agreement to respect the result.

The entire UK state was designed to prevent this, and has spent the last 307 years delaying, ignoring, or stymying the calls for it, keeping it all discretely in the background. But here we are. It's all out in the open now.

I've been very impressed by the speed and zeal with which the English regions, Welsh Assembly, and various city councils have begun demanding greater autonomy and devolution from Westminster (already!). Regardless of the result tommorrow, things have happened here as a result of the referendum that cannot be undone. Good things. We have breached the gates, and now it's up to you to storm the castle. Get in there. The power has always been yours to take, you only have to...uh... take it.

Demand better, and keep demanding better. It's the only way anything will ever improve. The UK state does not give away power easily, and it does not give out prizes for good behaviour either, but if you worry it sufficiently while keeping your nose clean you'll get what you want in the end. Or at least, you'll be promised what you want. A watered-down version of what you want. Often hastily, and in a shaky voice, and in direct contradiction of earlier dismissals.

Mac, it's a shame you can't vote, but I'd say you've done your bit here anyway.

Let's see how it turns out at the polls. Hearing very good things from canvass results - 2 to 1 for Yes in most of the areas near me. Whether that translates to the overall vote remains to be seen.

Hell of a turnout in George Square tonight - Councillor Matheson won't be happy. He must feel like Ceaușescu in his palace, just before the end. Let's make Gordon Brown a real ex-politician. Let's make David Cameron an ex-Prime Minister. Let's make Niall Ferguson's revisionist rehabilitations of Empire redundant. Let's make Jim Murphy unemployed. Concurrent with all that (and not wholly unrelated to it) let's make a better country.

Anyway. Onwards and upwards. We were never meant to get here, but here we are.

EDIT: That Better Together spoof reminded me of some of the darker stuff from Limmy's Show (the compulsive cereal eating) - those moments where your brain might not fully get the joke... because it's not a joke, as such... but your subconcious knows exactly what's up.

[AhabsOtherLeg]

Whenever Ahab has time, I look forward to hearing about his experiences of the last few weeks.

It's actually been great fun. Contrary to how the Mail and BBC have portrayed it, the "ground war" has been almost universally polite and friendly, in contrast to the "air war" in the media. Actually, "polite" was the wrong word to use. This is Scotland, after all. But I haven't seen any families torn apart or friendships destroyed. My No-voting pals are still my pals, my No-voting family members haven't been disowned or cast into the outer darkness (maybe later ). There has been the odd angry exchange on the doorsteps, but not much more than what you'd expect during any important political debate.

There have been some minor acts of violence during the campaign, I admit. Contrary again to what the Telegraph, Mail, and BBC will tell you, every single one of these assaults (barring the egging of Jim Murphy) has been committed by No supporters against Yes campaigners, or else have been acts of vandalism against Yes campaign property. You won't have heard about these incidents for the reasons I mentioned above - they were minor, they were committed by unionists, and you'd have to rely on the UK media to report them, which they won't. If they'd been perpetrated by Yes campaigners, we could've been certain of wall-to-wall coverage for months on end, but the discipline on the streets has been a marvel to behold. Less so online... ... but that really does come from both sides.

Ah, one funny campaign story. There's a house in my area that kept changing the signs in the window - one day it would be Yes, the next No Thanks, and so on. Couldn't figure out why this guy was so changeable. It turns out that the guy who lives there's a dealer. When he had gear in the house he'd put up a Yes sign, so that customers would know to come to the door. When he was sold out, he'd put his No Thanks sign back up. Clever. The nation that produced Adam Smith, right enough.

[MacCruiskeen]

Thanks, Ahab. Glad, but not the least bit surprised (I'd heard the same from my family), to hear that British media rumblings about Glencoe-like levels of animosity among the Jocks have been, eh, somewhat exaggerated. And Miliband's alleged 'mobbing' in the mall was just funny

I'm off to my kip now. Meeting some people in the pub tomorrow night to hear a few speakers and follow the results as they come in.

PS I was present when the Berlin Wall came down. You might be present when the UK comes down. Or stays up.

What with Celtic being out of the Champions League it's gonna be an unusually grey Scottish winter if it turns out to be a No. However. Rome wasn't razed in a day.

[MacCruiskeen]

Great last day campaigning for indy

Posted by John Hilley on September 18, 2014, 1:09 am

Another truly intoxicating day on the streets of Glasgow, the enthusiasm palpable.

A great mood of hope apparent around the east end, speaking to so many battered by austerity and alienated from Westminster.

Down in Buchanan Street too, amazing amounts of people talking, smiling, taking badges, stickers and leaflets, a wonderful atmosphere of expectation. We even felt a little sorry for the few No campaigners nearby trying vainly to match it all.

And then that inspiring mass carnival gathering in George Square.

Just the last task now of getting around and helping to ensure that vital vote.

Better get to bed....

John

http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens ... 98979.html

[Project Willow]

Well, not long to go now.

I'll be thinking of you and watching how it turns out tomorrow. Hoping to join in from thousands of miles away.

[streeb]

Same here, from the west coast. Thanks to you and Mac for the excellent commentary.

[Iamwhomiam]

So, this is what it's come to! The warm embrace of the Arab Spring has finally brought Great Britain's Fall. Absolutely amazing!

Good Luck. To be Free Scots once again and no longer subjects of the Crown of England will be quite a wonderful thing. Let the old biddy stew.

This is the best I could do at the moment, so I hope you'll find it acceptable.

[semper occultus]

..well tbh it still looks like a no vote based on consistent poll figs 48-49 vs 51-52....although the blind and clueless panic caused by the Sunday Times poll showing a Yes lead whilst highly amusing on one level was also profoundly shocking ....like watching your coach-driver suddenley waking up from his restful slumber and wrestling madly with the steering wheel as your vehicle crashes through the flimsy wooden barriers on some precipitous mountain pass ......we now appear to be rocking gently back & forth in mid-air for the next 24 hrs....



( ....and they were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off ! )

[RocketMan]

Independence for Scotland!!!

Here's to interesting times.

[semper occultus]

...Germany will win it on penalties...

[zangtang]

I think a great many of you are being staggeringly naive.
- which surprises me.

[MacCruiskeen]

I think a great many of you are being staggeringly naive.

Why naive? Have you actually followed the thread? No one is mistaking Alex Salmond for the Messiah. No one is confusing independence with the Big Rock Candy Mountain.

[Belligerent Savant]

.




Another reason to vote FOR Scottish independence:

President Barack Obama reiterated his stance against Scottish independence with a tweet on Wednesday.

Obama said he hopes the UK remains "strong, robust and united." The Scottish independence vote takes place Thursday, Sept. 18.

White House tweet:
The UK is an extraordinary partner for America and a force for good in an unstable world. I hope it remains strong, robust and united. -bo

Former President Bill Clinton has also spoken out against Scottish independence, saying he hopes "the Scots will inspire the world with a high turnout and a powerful message of both identity and inclusion."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/1 ... 38142.html

[American Dream]

It's a long, long road ahead, no matter what:

A proposal on the Scottish referendum: “Yes, but…”

by GORDON ASHER SEPTEMBER 18, 2014




“A ‘Yes, but’ campaign supports a ‘yes’ vote as our least worst option, and supports the autonomy of social movements regardless of which side wins.”


Read more…