Scottish Independence and the UK State

[Rory]

I think a great many of you are being staggeringly naive.
- which surprises me.

What's that supposed to mean? Context and explanation, ye ken?

[MacCruiskeen]

Long queues outside the polling booths:

In Edinburgh's New Town, most early voters were somewhat cagey about their intentions. "I'm the proudest Scot you'll meet", said Torquil McArbitrage (25), a junior financial analyst at Financial Analysis plc, "but I'm not entirely convinced independence will be good for our economy." His fiancée, Claire Airehead (21), a student of Financial Analysis at St. Andrews, said "I'm not, like, a very political person? I find it all a bit, y'know, baffling? I'll probably decide when I get there?" In Morningside, human resources manager Richard Vyle (46) chuckled, "No comment."

In Stirling, freelance financial consultant Fraser Rapacious (32), who asked not to be named, said it was too early to be talking about politics and that he wished to eat his cereal in peace.

Voters in Glasgow were more forthcoming about their intentions. In Shettleston, Mrs Iona Telli (78) said "I don't like that Alec Salmond. I'm voting Labour", while Kylie McGlashan (16) from Govan said: "The No campaign is relying on the fear and weariness with democratic engagement that springs from a particular neo-liberal subjectivity. The referendum is not a battle of atavism against progress: it is one of politics – of the salience of the political – against post-politics." Her friend Shug Kelly (17) from Nitshill added: "David Cameron can sook ma dangy, I'm voting Yes."

[...]

http://ceasefiremagazine.co.uk/wp-conte ... cot-11.jpg

Still too close to call, then.

[tazmic]

Can anyone offer a good reason why this vote should have found itself balancing anywhere near 50/50?

What are the chances of that? And why is it so common....?

Perhaps the 50/50 is the critical mass of opinion which has to happen before the question is raised.

[Rory]

It's neck and neck despite wall to wall anti independence propaganda from the state, and popular media.

With all of the government, many of the celebrity and public figures, and international opinion from Europe and the West (not to mention, big business and the big finaicial players), all emphatically anti independence.

All them fuckers can do is push it to a near tie?

[IanEye]

just thought I would post this to show the difference between the U.K. & the U.S. in terms of an entity breaking off from the Union:

When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.

So, in the U.K. y'all Scots apparently get to vote if you want to leave.

In the U.S. the only democratic manner in which Texas gets to leave is if the rest of the States in the Union vote it out.



*

[norton ash]

Go, Scots, go. I want to see a Celtic wedge from Brittany-Normandy (they have their own separatist movements) through Scotland to the isles and bays of the Dal Riata where we can all join the dance on the bones of Ian Paisley. Down to the Dingle peninsula, where Cuchulainn can throw the clod of earth that wakes up Newfoundland... he could fire a few at Cape Breton and Boston while he's at it.

The Celtic Caliphate awaits.

[Rory]

The Celtic Caliphate awaits.

It would be an ArchDruidocracy or something - reawaken the old faiths and cast this Christian pish into the sea where it belongs

Age of Aquarius, my bawbag

[RocketMan]

Uh-oh... Not only is there electronic voting THERE ARE NO EXIT POLLS. Sigh.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ic-deficit

Anyone who’s sat up watching the TV on election night knows there’s a pattern to how things go: before the polls close, early in the evening, broadcasters assiduously say as little as possible to avoid breaking election broadcasting rules.

Then comes 10pm, and the polls close. Moments later, the anchor behind the desk (almost always a Dimbleby of some description) gives the results of the exit poll – often the only bit of red meat to talk about for the next several hours.

Except, as the polls close in the Scottish referendum, this won’t happen – as neither the BBC nor any other media outlet has bothered to pay to get one done.

[MacCruiskeen]

Twitter Trends Map, fwiw (makes weirdly hypnotic viewing):

http://trendsmap.com/v2/Lf62/w

Overwhelmingly Yes, fwiw. NB, it's not recording actual votes, obviously, just tweets. Still, it gives a pretty striking indication of how younger people are feeling, or at least tweeting.

The pre-referendum opinion polls were all done on landlines, with people who a) have landlines, and b) had previously agreed to be polled. That's an older, more domesticated & wealthier demographic, on the whole, and probably more likely to vote No.

Polls close in about two hours.

[Perelandra]

Fwiw, I quickly looked up a rough astrology chart for the time you note, Mac. I see indications of a fortunate upset, so maybe...?

[RocketMan]

Twitter Trends Map, fwiw (makes weirdly hypnotic viewing):

http://trendsmap.com/v2/Lf62/w

Overwhelmingly Yes, fwiw. NB, it's not recording actual votes, obviously, just tweets. Still, it gives a pretty striking indication of how younger people are feeling, or at least tweeting.

The pre-referendum opinion polls were all done on landlines, with people who a) have landlines, and b) had previously agreed to be polled. That's an older, more domesticated & wealthier demographic, on the whole, and probably more likely to vote No.

Polls close in about two hours.

Twitter is certainly overwhelmingly in the Yes camp, globally. Interestink.

[MacCruiskeen]

Scotland’s yes campaigners are voting to leave the Titanic
The British state is an imperial behemoth that can only look on in panic as Scots scramble for the lifeboats

Adam Ramsay
theguardian.com, Thursday 18 September 2014 09.00 BST
Jump to comments (1081)


Deacon Blue frontman, Ricky Ross (centre), at a yes rally in Glasgow on the last day of campaigning. Photograph: Mark Runnacles/Getty Images

In Scottish city centres right now, you’re rarely out of sight of a yes badge. The vibe was summed up by an Edinburgh cabbie: “We’re being invited to run our country. It’s very exciting. Maybe we can show how things can be done differently”. It’s not just him. Polls have shown the yes vote surging.

It’s worth noting how remarkable this is. The only UK party supporting independence is the Greens. Of all of the local Scottish and British papers, only the Sunday Herald backs yes. The official story has long been that it’s only a few angry men in kilts who care about this.

But in the internet age, officials don’t get to write the stories any more. There were always people who had little time for flags, tartanry and shortbread, but who wanted to escape a political system that has made Britain one of Europe’s most unequal counties. And it is these people – a better organised and vastly more powerful version of the Occupy movement – that the Westminster parties and their media partners failed to consider. These people created their own media and founded their own organisations. They are young, energetic, enthusiastic, funny. They looked the British state straight in the eye and saw through its illusions. The hierarchies of a steeply unequal country reward loyalty and elite connections while punishing independence of mind. No wonder kids from “the regions” are running rings around the “gurus” of a floundering establishment.

It isn’t just about activist groups. Visiting one of Edinburgh’s gurdwaras with Scots Asians for Yes, the people I met were typical. Some were undecided; some were no. Most were yes. And what distinguished the yeses was this: they were discussing how to persuade relatives and friends. They collected data-filled booklets to talk through with their families. They had become Google and Twitter aficionados, digging out and sharing information that debunks the horror stories our politicians use to frighten us away from any notion that another world is possible. With social media, Paul Mason once wrote, “truth moves faster than lies, and propaganda becomes flammable”.

It’s against this self-organised network that the British state is flagging. Research from Edinburgh University shows that the more information people have, the more likely they are to vote yes. In the face of mass peer-to-peer education, the puffed-up power of elites melts away: polls show most Scots no longer believe what Westminster MPs say. As David Cameron and George Osborne and Ed Miliband huff and puff and woo and cajole the people of Scotland, more and more simply look these politicians up and down, shrug, and say: “You have no power over us any more.”

[...]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... tish-state

[gnosticheresy_2]

No exit polls , BBC wouldn't spring for one apparently, don't know about why the polling companies themselves won't.

[Laodicean]

Quite tasty. Now get out!

[AhabsOtherLeg]

The Celtic Caliphate awaits.

"Evil CyberNat Calls For Celtic Caliphate"

"Revealed: How Indy Crisis Will Only Aid ISIS."

Daily Mail and Express headlines tommorrow.

Actually, those papers will either be in utter meltdown or doing cartwheels across the room tommorrow, depending on the result. They'll maybe drop the CyberNat chat now that Andy Murray is taking absolute dog's abuse on Twitter for coming out as a Yesser.

Good news - the ballots are all being hand-counted, though e-counting machines are apparently still to play some role in proceedings that I'm not really sure about. We don't use actual voting machines, like those arcade game things in Florida, thank Christ. Sorry if I gave that impression earlier. Electronic counting of hand-marked ballots can be manipulated too of course - just sayin'. And there have been over 900,000 postal votes.

97% voter registration, 100% voter turnout in some areas. Pretty much unheard of in a modern Western democracy. I pray we don't use this brief burst of democratic power to throw our own power away. It'd be pretty fucking typical if we did though. Hubris followed by self-harm would be a pretty accurate short summation of our entire national history.

Mac, I thought that "sook ma dangy" quote was real for a minute. Like I said earlier, not all of the campaigning has been polite. Kaye Burley called a Yes campaigner "a bit of a knob" while she was presenting the news the other day. Got a laugh out of this Daily Mash article too, which is rare:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/inte ... 4091790696

.