7/7 Dallas Shooting

[stickdog99]

Black Negotiator Lives Matter

While a host of FBI agents continued to comb downtown streets for evidence, Dallas homicide investigators analyzed evidence already gathered from the shooter, Micah X. Johnson, while preparing to question their own officers next week about the attack.

...

On Sunday morning, Dallas Police Chief David Brown provided new details to CNN about the department's negotiations with Johnson. The chief said that Johnson demanded to speak with a black negotiator.

Brown said Johnson's request "didn't matter to us and it shouldn't make sense to anyone because it didn't lead to any type of peaceful resolution."

Brown said the negotiator is black. However, Johnson did not initially believe that until they had talked at length.

...

It's still unclear when and where Johnson began his deadly assault, but at some point, he shot his way into one of the school's three buildings, then ran upstairs to another building and finally to a third where he was trapped by police, according to school officials.

"Our account is that he tried multiple locations to shoot his way into the building, and eventually he was able to do that and enter the A building and go up the stairs in the B building, which gave him access to the second floor," said Ann Hatch, a spokesperson for the Dallas County Community College District, which includes El Centro. "He then went down the hallway on the second floor into the C building."

Getting outside help

Patrol cars blocked off roadways and yellow crime scene tape stretch across several blocks of downtown Saturday. Streets surrounding El Centro College, the West End and the George L. Allen Sr. Courts Building are expected to remain closed through the weekend as officials investigate.

A team of "approximately 70 evidence collection experts from the Dallas field office, neighboring field offices, and the FBI laboratory in Quantico, Virginia" meticulously went through the evidence on those closed streets Saturday, said FBI spokesperson Allison Mahan.

[Novem5er]

Let's keep in mind we only know what we distantly know. There is no reason to take another's speculation so serious to make it personal. Obviously everyone can read here so I think insults should be out. I want to reiterate that we will never know for sure. But what we do "know" or theorize over should be the most important issue. 8bit on FB shared with me a friend's film of where his friend was. I won't share a link as he thinks it may be "private". Anyway, pure chaos and it definitely appeared that non cops and non-white were hit too.

I have no idea. Imagine if the Aurora theater shooter had prohibited cellphones on amidst the crowd. They said there were multiple shooters there too at first. Police also found a "booby trapped" apartment with "bomb making material" or some shit.

Agreed. I would hate it if I come across as trying to stamp out debate. Not at all! I came into the thread with some input and then a statement that I said would likely make me unpopular: that I think people are putting too much emphasis on conflicting early reports and photos of people looking up. That's it. Maybe there is more to this story (probably is) but I'm just cautioning about reading too much into any specific statement or photo.

Nothing wrong with speculating, but some posters (not you 82_28) go straight from speculation to explanation.

Mac, the difference between a lie and a mistake is intention. We "Heroes of Reason" are simply saying that its more likely a mistake than a lie. A lie would require a conspiracy of a grand proportions, while mistakes are made all the time in variety of situations.

I've already explained that authorities often provide inaccurate information to "get out in front" of a story and to make a public appearance of being informed and in control. This happens all the time, in even non-crisis situations. In the video you just linked to, Brown says "we are negotiating with that person as we speak" meaning that this statement was made as the crime was still unfolding. The next morning he changed this story, i.e. corrected earlier mistakes. You think Brown was out there on the streets eye-witnessing multiple snipers on different buildings? Or was he being fed reports from his own officers and eye witnesses who, possibly, had been mistaken?

Does anyone have a video of a witness (citizen or officer) actually making a statement that they saw people on rooftops with guns shooting down into the street? I'm just curious.

I always get a kick out of people who comment about the unlikelihood of "conspiracies of grand proportions." Innocent people are framed by the police and convicted by our criminal "justice" system everyday. Do these routine incidents require "conspiracies of grand proportions"? Look at the Ferguson criminal justice system or the Chicago PD or the LAPD during the very recent bad old days. Would you count these organizations as "conspiracies of grand proportions"?

I'm glad you brought that up. A conspiracy within a single organization is not necessarily a grand conspiracy. Individual police departments may be filled with racists who work together to commit crime; sure that's a conspiracy. But if those same police departments are communicating specific plans to each other to commit crimes on a wider scale, that would be a larger conspiracy. If those multiple police departments also organized with a federal agency to commit crimes, that would be an even larger conspiracy! Throw a complicit media into the mix and now we have a grand ol' conspiracy worthy of Rigorous Intuition.

So, no, framed individuals are falsely convicted without grand conspiracies. They usually fall victim to small conspiracies of a few individuals.

[stickdog99]

No, he's saying that the shooter was down at street level.

Really? So he is really saying that the shooter kept riding an escalator up and down while somehow triangulating better than a Clinton?

What I am saying is that the shooting started on the first floor of the parking garage, killing leo in the street where the protest was marching, everyone scatters.
Perp comes down to campus street level, one flight of stairs, 10 seconds?
Engages at least the person murdered by the column.
Perp then gets back in parking garage,(2nd floor?) engages with leo, gets cornered.
Kills negotiator?
Eats a bomb.
All speculation thank you very much.

Yeah, ok. Why not? As I said before, it's possible. But why is this always the game they make us play? You know, the game of trying to come up with scenarios that allow us to believe as much as we possibly can about the latest and greatest official rewrite?

Why doesn't anybody ever bother to ask the obvious questions?

[stickdog99]

So, no, framed individuals are falsely convicted without grand conspiracies. They usually fall victim to small conspiracies of a few individuals.

Consider the Ferguson criminal justice system or the Chicago PD or the LAPD during the very recent bad old days. Would you count these organizations as "conspiracies of grand proportions"?

This time please at least attempt to consider and answer the most relevant questions.

[Nordic]

Novemb5r you seem to be suffering from one of many preconceptions about conspiracies. Assuming they all have to be "grand". They don't. And the media doesn't have to be "complicit", only obedient to the authorities.

Do you even remember the Washington DC sniper? How weird that was? That was one mind-controlled guy (maybe gone awry, it's hard to tell) let loose. No grand conspiracy. The RFK hit just needed a few people and one hypnotized patsy.

[Harvey]

From every direction: Divide and rule.

I'll ask again, why is it that the rich and the wealthy display far more solidarity than the poor?

Here's how it was done in Iraq.

And this substantially altered article (the original is long gone.) However this remains for whatever reason:

"Everyone you talk to [thinks the two undercover men] were up to something very bad... to kill somebody or destroy a building, and let us battle against each other," he said.

Clue: http://www.nytimes.com...blast-destroys-shrine-in-iraq-setting-off-sectarian.html?_r=0

The enemy is the organising principle.

[Novem5er]

Hah!

So, no, framed individuals are falsely convicted without grand conspiracies. They usually fall victim to small conspiracies of a few individuals.

Consider the Ferguson criminal justice system or the Chicago PD or the LAPD during the very recent bad old days. Would you count these organizations as "conspiracies of grand proportions"?

This time please at least attempt to consider and answer the most relevant questions.

I'm sorry, I thought I did. I'll be more specific in answering: no, I wouldn't consider the old Chicago or LAPDs conspiracies of grand proportions because there wasn't a connection to other departments or federal agencies (AFAIK), and the goal of their conspiracies was not to alter national or international politics i.e. 9/11.

Novemb5r you seem to be suffering from one of many preconceptions about conspiracies. Assuming they all have to be "grand". They don't. And the media doesn't have to be "complicit", only obedient to the authorities.

Do you even remember the Washington DC sniper? How weird that was? That was one mind-controlled guy (maybe gone awry, it's hard to tell) let loose. No grand conspiracy. The RFK hit just needed a few people and one hypnotized patsy.

You're right, some conspiracies can be very small. I actually gave you some props earlier for bringing up the mind control idea earlier in this thread. I think this Dallas shooter could be a mind control victim and, you're correct, that it wouldn't have to involve that many people.

But that conspiracy would grow exponentially in complexity if suddenly key members of the Dallas PD was in on it. I've been specifically talking about the claims that Mac has been making, that Chief Brown has specifically been lying, insinuating that Brown is "in on it". I find this to be entirely unlikely, but also unnecessary to a mind control plot. The idea that there were multiple shooters and now the Dallas PD is covering it up just doesn't make sense, unless they ARE part of the conspiracy, which makes it less believable.

[Cordelia]

'Wag The Dog' Photo-Ops








‘Graceful in the lion’s den’: Photo of arrest in Baton Rouge becomes powerful symbol

"The photo quickly drew comparisons to the Statue of Liberty, Rosa Parks's sitting in a seat at the front of a segregated bus and "tank man" facing down war machines in Tiananmen Square."



Obama and Bush to speak Tuesday at Dallas memorial service for fallen police officers




Former top cop: America is ‘sitting on a powder keg’
"The former top cop in Washington and Philadelphia said Sunday that the country is “sitting on a powder keg” amid outcry over a number of fatal police shootings, including two last week that prompted nationwide protests.

And he fears that “some incident” will take place at the national political conventions later this month."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... 34c47a6472
[
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_qpuu4DoTU

[Nordic]

Well I don't claim to actually know anything for certain, but having higher-ups in the Dallas PD being involved wouldn't surprise me at all. Especially considering the fate of the "shooter". Blown to bits, everything about him being 100% provided by the authorities. No body, no pics, no nothing.

Remember, members of the LAPD were involved in the RFK murder.

Trouble is we're all just guessing. Even you. <----- meaning Novemb5r.

[Harvey]

"We're all human until proven otherwise."

"They're not human until proven otherwise."

I know which one I'm for. There's no script, but there are plenty of authors.

Don't play the game.

[stickdog99]

Novemb5r you seem to be suffering from one of many preconceptions about conspiracies. Assuming they all have to be "grand". They don't. And the media doesn't have to be "complicit", only obedient to the authorities.

Do you even remember the Washington DC sniper? How weird that was? That was one mind-controlled guy (maybe gone awry, it's hard to tell) let loose. No grand conspiracy. The RFK hit just needed a few people and one hypnotized patsy.

How about the mafia? Does the mafia ever kill people? Does the mafia ever kill people and finger the wrong suspect? But wouldn't that take a "massive, grand conspiracy"? How could such an improbable thing ever be accomplished?

How about corporations? Do corporations ever cheat or lie or successfully cover up the clearly harmful effects of their products? But wouldn't that take a "massive, grand conspiracy"? How could such an improbable thing ever be accomplished?

[Harvey]

Stick, you may not be entirely wrong, but until someone or something shows you how, you may not know exactly where you're wrong. And it can be a helluva 'where.'

People are people, until you begin to see them as something else. That's when there is the utmost moral duty to step back from the brink and reassess. Those who do not or will not do that, damn them.

[Novem5er]

How about the mafia? Does the mafia ever kill people? Does the mafia ever kill people and finger the wrong suspect? But wouldn't that take a "massive, grand conspiracy"? How could such an improbable thing ever be accomplished?

How about corporations? Do corporations ever cheat or lie or successfully cover up the clearly harmful effects of their products? But wouldn't that take a "massive, grand conspiracy"? How could such an improbable thing ever be accomplished?

Come on, man, I already explained my 100% unofficial definition for grand conspiracies - which is the collaboration of multiple organizations. An example of a "grand conspiracy" in this case would be as follows:

1. CIA mind control unit preps multiple future slaves over several years.
2. CIA enlists the aid of police units in multiple cities: Boston, Aurora, San Berdino, Orlando, Dallas and preps them for a future attack.
3. Mind control slave is activated.
4. Each time, the corrupted police officers and brass assist in containing the damage and covering up evidence of the truth.
5. CIA puts pressure on media assets to ask the right questions and ignore the wrong questions.
6. Media assets comply and enforce the narrative that the CIA and local officers have conspired to create.
7. Rinse and repeat in cities all across the country over multiple years.

That would be a pretty big conspiracy, if you ask me - not involving hundreds of people - but a grand conspiracy of scope and effect.

[Novem5er]

Well I don't claim to actually know anything for certain, but having higher-ups in the Dallas PD being involved wouldn't surprise me at all. Especially considering the fate of the "shooter". Blown to bits, everything about him being 100% provided by the authorities. No body, no pics, no nothing.

Remember, members of the LAPD were involved in the RFK murder.

Trouble is we're all just guessing. Even you. <----- meaning Novemb5r.

Absolutely! I have no problems with guessing. I have no problems with any of this. I just jumped in a few pages ago to say "hey, let's be careful about guessing too much based on a few photos and a very early police report" and then I elaborated on that position. I don't feel attacked and I hope I'm not coming across as attacking anyone else.

You make a good point that all it takes is for a few crooked individuals within an organization to act; it doesn't take the entire department to make a conspiracy. Granted! I'll just say two things about that; RFK and other situations were researched for years and eventually people were implicated by those researchers. People should dig and keep digging - but I think we are very quick to say "Aha! Got 'em!" these days within hours or days of something happening. Secondly, if we look at the pattern of these mass shootings over the last few years (hell, just this year!) we see the same narrative appear over and over. Either that means that a lot of these are interconnected (which would indicate a larger conspiracy) or that at least some of these are exactly as they appear - aka solo nuts shooting people.

[stickdog99]

Stick, you may not be entirely wrong, but until someone or something shows you how, you may not know exactly where you're wrong. And it can be a helluva 'where.'

People are people, until you begin to see them as something else. That's when there is the utmost moral duty to step back from the brink and reassess. Those who do not or will not do that, damn them.

I am not trying to be right. I would typically much rather be wrong, and I could very well be. I see people as people. IMHO, sociopathic people make up only a tiny minority of people. I have seen hundreds of thousands of people gather together happily and peacefully without incident without a single show of authority "to keep them in line." I think that is how regular people generally are, be they Muslim or black or even blue.

But to assume that the same people with both the power and the desire to successfully foment war do not partake in a little ritual sacrifice among their own citizenry when they feel that this could benefit them because the scale of such a "conspiracy" would be too great is not very rigorous.