stickdog99 wrote:DoYouEverWonder wrote:So where did all this fuel come from on a planet that doesn't have fossils?
Good question. What's amusing is that most planetary scientists don't even see the inconsistency. Such is the power of the reigning paradigm.
I looked up methane on wiki;
It is associated with other hydrocarbon fuels, and sometimes accompanied by helium and nitrogen. The gas at shallow levels (low pressure) forms by anaerobic decay of organic matter and reworked methane from deep under the Earth's surface.
So yes, the orthodoxy insists that methane recoverable for human energy use from the planet's crust is produced by decay of organic matter. It's a hydrocarbon fuel that we use, therefore it is a "fossil" fuel.
So Stephen's witty remark below, was entirely apropos, "fossil fuels" (simple chemical hydrocarbon compounds) arising from other than organic sources, should be as unremarkable as alcohol (simple chemical hydrocarbon compounds) arising from something other than a brewery.
wintler2 wrote:Stephen Morgan wrote:You know there are entire nebulae of alcohol out there in areas of space that have never seen a brewery.
And thats about as close to relevance as you get.
SCIENTISTS TAP INTO CLOUDS OF PURE ALCOHOL IN OUTER SPACE
COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Using data collected by researchers at Ohio State University, astronomers have found vast quantities of pure alcohol in an interstellar cloud some 10,000 light years from Earth.
Scientists said the cloud, located near the constellation Aquila, contains enough alcohol to make 400 trillion trillion pints of beer.
The discovery was made during a study of how stars begin. Stars form from interstellar clouds, large conglomerations of gases and dust particles which can extend hundreds of light years across. Scientists have known for some time that the largest component of these clouds is hydrogen, but until now, they were not sure if ethyl alcohol molecules were also an ingredient.
"Over the course of the last 25 years or so, a number of molecules have been observed in space and scientists identify them by studying the frequencies of radiation they emit," said Eric Herbst, a professor of physics and astronomy at Ohio State. Herbst and Frank De Lucia, professor and chair of the physics department, authored a study on the specific radio frequencies of
ethyl alcohol.
Ethyl alcohol can only be observed in its gaseous phase. To observe the frequencies of ethanol, De Lucia and Herbst used a laboratory microwave spectrometer developed by De Lucia, a tabletop apparatus that shoots waves of radiation through a gaseous molecular sample. The molecule absorbs the radiation at selected radio frequencies, which are identical with the frequencies emitted by the molecules in space. A detector on the spectrometer records the frequencies for study.
On a visit to Ohio State, Tom Millar, an astronomer from the University of Manchester Institute of Science and Technology in England, discovered the research done by Herbst and De Lucia and used it in his study of star formation.
"It seems the ethanol molecule is found in relatively high concentrations in regions where stars are forming," Herbst said. "The current thought is that ethanol is formed on the surface of tiny sand-like particles in interstellar clouds. The heat from the star that is forming transforms the molecule to a gas and we are able to observe it."
Millar, along with Geoff Macdonald and Rolf Habing of the University of Kent in England, found 350 spectral lines emitted from molecules in an interstellar cloud. About 70 of these lines could not be matched to any molecule until Millar found out about the work done by Herbst and De Lucia.
"By studying these frequencies, the astronomers were able to learn more than just what molecule was there," Herbst said. "They were able to get information about the cloud's environment, such as temperature and density, by studying the intensity of the frequencies."
The research suggests that ethanol can be found in other interstellar clouds in which stars are forming, Herbst said.
The research by Herbst and De Lucia was published in the April issue of the Journal of Physical and Chemical Reference Data .
Wintler2 clearly demonstrates his ignorance by somehow thinking it completely lacks relevance. You should have more modesty. If you mock people when you don't understand what they are saying, then perhaps it is you that ought to be held up as a subject of mockery.
wintler2 wrote:I'm pro oil depeletion protocolmyself, was involved a little in trying to get the Aus govt to take issue seriously but no longer, and have over last 5 years reshaped my life around less oil. I think most westerners would, like i did, benefit from cutting down or even kicking their oil habit.
I agree. I recycle, live small, don't drive or fly. I do have a fair few plastic toys. But I don't have a small carbon footprint in order to sustain "our way of life," so much as I do it to undermine "our way of life." You and me recycling and living small will likely not protect the planet completely from those who would exploit and damage the earth and the life upon it.
wintler2 wrote:Those who just want to be liked leave themselves permanently vulnerable to being socially gamed ,'normed', and i think that gaming goes on here. Being obnoxious means i have nothing to lose on that front, which is very liberating.
Well, that explains a lot. I have to say though, I think it's a rotten strategy; alienating people with your abrasiveness. That is, if you want a productive dialogue. Although if you already know The Truth, perhaps then it is just a matter of outing the purveyors of Untruth and subjecting them to your excoriating invective and scathing ridicule.
In fact, a lot of people's posts would benefit from less invective and ridicule. Do I have to point it out? Don't you know it makes you seem very boorish, except perhaps for those whose prejudices coincide with your own, who might enjoy the humor and the abuse? Is that not obvious to you? And no, I didn't find AD's cartoons funny either. Are you sure you want to act like a boor? The arguments and facts dry up, so we are left just with insults and jeering? Act like adults, not children. I very much doubt I am alone in not holding name-calling and mockery in high regard. Those who employ it reveal the paucity of their arguments.
"F**k off and die", indeed! Simply appalling! Personally, I don't see any excuse for it.
