One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:02 am

I know this is old news, but it's still baffling. This should be a bumber sticker alongside "Free Bradley Manning", a meme, a Kony 2012 level campaign by the left and activists and just everyone.

Obama administration kills an American Denver CO boy 16 years old eating at a restaurant, was definitely not a terrorist, yet refuses to apologize. If Bush had done this, the left would have been up in arms. Welcome to the new left, where up is down and black is beige.


Ok they support gay rights. Fantastic. LBJ signed laws to give civil rights to blacks, yet covered up FBI orchestrated murders of civil rights leaders and ramped up the genocide in Vietnam.

I mean seriously. An American kid who literally just turned 16. Who listed "The Simpsons" as one of his favorite shows on Facebook. A hip hop fan who routinely posted goofy pictures. A boy who would sneak out
at night to hang at parties.

My government targeted and murdered this kid, who had snuck out to eat at a restaurant. And fucking Obama wants to talk about the Boston bombers?
I think what's so maddening is that Bush isn't president. We now have to live in this bizarre fucking society where right wingers hate Obama's guts for fake reasons and both right wingers and mainline liberals don't want
to discuss how he's continued and or ramped up Bush era policies. I seriously feel like Fats Blue being waited on by Grover on Sesame Street. Or someone who sees a giant green elephant floating in the sky and noone wants to hear about it.

More evidence Awlaki's family were not extremists, but educated moderate people with no ties to extremism. In this clip Scahill explains how CIA agents met with Awlakis brother in Austria
and tried to pay him off for info on Anwar. They claimed they didnt want to kill him, just arrest him


I really wish someone would buy up billboards or tv ad space to highlight all these war crimes. The double taps, the everything this administration is doing. It's immoral, and it's not right they can sit there and hide behind
that "Democratic" white hat bullshit. It's almost as sickening as Bush and the neocons with the smugness.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby justdrew » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:40 am

According to U.S. officials the killing of Abdulrahman al-Awlaki was a mistake; the actual target was an Egyptian, Ibrahim al-Banna. Abdulrahman al-Awlaki was reported to have gone out in the desert to search for his missing father but was sitting in a cafe when he was killed.


Abdulrahman was never put on the kill list. "the administration" had no idea he was going to die.

As for al-Awlaki Sr. - he knew exactly what he was doing and accepted the risk. Do you REALLY think ANY nation on earth is going to do anything other than kill a known terrorist leader recruiter and motivational expert out to kill citizens of that country? He made himself a target and ended up in a predictable manner. These are not sympathetic victims.

None the less, "the left" you love to slag off is the only political force ACTUALLY trying to reign in the (popular) use of these damn drones, which you can see some movement on in the last post on the last page.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:28 am

justdrew wrote:These are not sympathetic victims.



The 16 year old was.

And just stop for a minute. The father was killed by an extra judicial killing. Does the US have jurisdiction to bomb yemen or anywhere else with drones?

Of course it doesn't. If the US is so keen on killing people in other countries the least they can do is not blow the fuck out of everyone in the vicinity. Obama made jokes about killing minors with drones which makes him a bloodthirsty prick or so lacking in awareness that he shouldn't be in charge in of the world's biggest military. And for one of his advisers to deflect a question about a minor being killed by a flying robot by blaming the kids dead father. That sort of thing might be acceptable for barbarian cannibals on acid, but it isn't for people.
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 10616
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby justdrew » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:02 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:
justdrew wrote:These are not sympathetic victims.



The 16 year old was.

And just stop for a minute. The father was killed by an extra judicial killing. Does the US have jurisdiction to bomb yemen or anywhere else with drones?

Of course it doesn't. If the US is so keen on killing people in other countries the least they can do is not blow the fuck out of everyone in the vicinity. Obama made jokes about killing minors with drones which makes him a bloodthirsty prick or so lacking in awareness that he shouldn't be in charge in of the world's biggest military. And for one of his advisers to deflect a question about a minor being killed by a flying robot by blaming the kids dead father. That sort of thing might be acceptable for barbarian cannibals on acid, but it isn't for people.



I would totally agree, were we not talking about blowing up people who themselves would have not a moments thought about blowing up a 16 year old.

It's a cycle of violence problem and it's not likely to have any chance of stopping completely until Islamic Terrorists disband and stop. Yes I know, right-wing forces from the US got this ball rolling allied with Saudi religious extremists, but that was decades ago, they're rolling all on their own now, and something is going to be done about it, politics, public opinion and electability considerations in the US demand it.

Awlaki knew damn well he was putting his own as well as the lives of his family in jeopardy, and he didn't give a damn. If anyone runs off to war with their child in tow, that parent is damn well responsible for the entirely predictable consequences.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:18 am

I would totally agree, were we not talking about blowing up people who themselves would have not a moments thought about blowing up a 16 year old.


That doesn't make it alright.

Its the worst excuse in the world, and it doesn't make it alright.

Yes I know, right-wing forces from the US got this ball rolling allied with Saudi religious extremists, but that was decades ago, they're rolling all on their own now, and something is going to be done about it, politics, public opinion and electability considerations in the US demand it.


The US can go and get fucked if it thinks its ok to bomb other countries at random. The US does more harm than any Islamic terrorist and has since the 1800s. Other countries don't do it, even a pariah like Israel assassinates individuals as individuals a fair proportion of the time. If the US electorate think bombing people with drones is OK then might want to take a good look at them selves cos civilised people don't do that and its a dangerous precedent to set. The US had worldwide public sympathy following the 9/11 attacks and now its universally despised by people with an ounce of compassion, and this is why - cos the US thinks its ok to deliver high explosive death to people anywhere if they're unfortunate enough to be with in cooee of where some dipshit terrorist is thought to be.

Awlaki knew damn well he was putting his own as well as the lives of his family in jeopardy, and he didn't give a damn. If anyone runs off to war with their child in tow, that parent is damn well responsible for the entirely predictable consequences.


I've heard that exact same sentiment expressed to justify atrocities by criminals. Besides which yemen isn't actually a warzone, cept in the sense that the whole world is cos the US military machine doesn't give a fuck about peoples lives or international borders and law.
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 10616
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby justdrew » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:19 am

drones warfare has to be controlled. I don't care for this approach, but it's the political situation as it stands. Hammer corporate media for it's cheer-leading. This direction was set by bush, FOX, and republicans in congress, it's going to take time to turn it around.

I can't change the fact that a large part of this electorate seems to be functionally sociopathic. Just look at Rand Paul. His base eats this shit up. It's disgusting and pathetic and depressing as fuck. I only seek to explain the calculus 'this administration' believes it must apply.

I suspect Obama would very much like it if congress would reign in the CIA's damned 'signature strikes' - in fact Obama called them off for a time, then reversed that. Why? We don't know :shrug:

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/04/23-11

http://forusa.org/blogs/nathaniel-mahlberg/contact-senators-about-killer-drones-before-senate-judiciary-subcommittee

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/04/23/senate-hearing-on-drone-wars-constitutional-counterterrorism-implications-of-targeted-killings-live-updates/

Tax Day and The Pentagon. Op-Ed on Common Dreams
April 15, 2013

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/04/14-1

Published on Sunday, April 14, 2013 by Common Dreams

Tax Day and the Pentagon

by Kevin Martin

This month, as budget and policy issues in Washington muddle along inconclusively as usual, grassroots peace activists are busy organizing, educating, protesting and lobbying.

Last weekend, Historians Against the War hosted an ambitious, illuminating conference at Towson University north of Baltimore on “The New Faces of War” with speakers and participants examining rapidly-changing foreign and domestic policies.

Anti-Nuclear activists will converge on Washington next week for the Alliance for Nuclear Accountability’s D.C. Days, for strategizing, training and lobbying on nuclear weapons, power, waste and cleanup issues.

Around the country, peace and social justice organizers will convene local actions on Tax Day, April 15, to educate taxpayers on the country’s skewed budget priorities that favor the Pentagon over human and environmental needs. This year, April 15 is also the Global Day of Action on Military Spending, with activities around the world and in over 30 U.S. states drawing attention to the world’s addiction to militarism and exorbitant “defense” budgets. If you can’t organize or attend a Tax Day event, you can still join our Thunderclap “It’s Our Tax Day, Not Theirs” online social media action.

The prestigious, independent Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) will release its annual report on world military expenditures on Monday, which will show the United States continues to spend over 40% of the world’s $1.7 trillion annually allocated to weapons and war. Randy Schutt of Cleveland Peace Action put together an impressive article titled Our Tax Dollars are off the War – 2013 edition on Daily Kos with charts, graphs and citations comparing U.S. military spending to the rest of the world, and to domestic spending, which serves as a nice complement to the upcoming SIPRI report.

Lastly, an impressive national coalition has come together to organize days of action throughout the month to stop U.S. drone warfare.

All these actions focus on crucial issues, and they come at a time when there is hope not just to impact those specific policies, but when a confluence of events give us an opportunity not seen in at least a decade to fundamentally question the mission and role of the U.S. military in both domestic and foreign policy.

In short, it’s time for the Pentagon to stop weaving all over the road, to get back in its lane, and to stay there.

On domestic policy, the most obvious issue is the metastasis of the Pentagon budget, which has doubled since 9/11. The total “national security budget,” which includes not just the Pentagon but also intelligence agencies, Department of Homeland Security and nuclear weapons spending under the Department of Energy is over $1 trillion per year. Globally, the U.S. accounts for about 43% of total military spending, and more than the next 13 countries (most of which are U.S. allies) combined. The opportunity cost of this Pentagon pig-out is investment in the things we really need to make our country more secure – improved education, health care, jobs, rebuilding our infrastructure and addressing climate change.

While not necessarily the fault of the Pentagon, a creeping militarization of social policy, as seen in policing, prisons, the “war on drugs” and immigration, among other areas, is cause for grave concern and corrective action.

Constitutionally, the arrogation of power by the Obama Administration to assassinate anyone, anywhere on the planet, anytime it wants to by drones or other weapons with little or no congressional or judicial oversight can hardly be what the president ran on as “change you can believe in.”

(The president’s home state senator and former colleague, Assistant Majority Leader Dick Durbin, plans a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee hearing later this month to address this issue, including the Administration’s assertion of the Authorization of the Use of Military Force after 9/11 as the legal justification for drone strikes in countries with which we are not at war.)

Militarization of U.S. foreign policy has been a bipartisan project since at least the end of World War II. And perhaps that’s not surprising for a country founded on and consolidated by the extreme violence of the genocide of the First Americans and imposition of slavery on Africans brought here in chains.

Quick, name the last real diplomatic success by the United States. Anything really significant since Carter’s Camp David peace accords between Egypt and Israel? That was in 1978 (and of course Palestine is still waiting for justice while Israel gets over $3 billion in U.S. military aid annually).

Look at U.S. foreign policy under our current Nobel Peace Prize laureate president. It’s less obviously and ham-handedly belligerent than Bush’s, okay. But in addition to ongoing drone strikes in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and other countries, he says “all options are on the table” with regard to Iran’s nuclear program, when even military leaders themselves say there is no military solution, only a diplomatic one. The U.S. and South Korea evidently think putting out the fire with gasoline is the right approach to North Korea’s nuclear test and recent threats, evidenced by ongoing war games, simulated nuclear attacks on the North using B-2 and B-52 bombers, and rushing F-22 fighter jets to South Korea to beef up the already robust U.S. military presence in the region as part of the “Asia-Pacific Pivot” aimed at isolating our main banker, China. And last but not least, despite voting for the Arms Trade Treaty at the United Nations this week, the U.S. remains the world’s number one exporter of conventional weapons.

Certainly the tens of millions of dollars annually spent on lobbying and campaign contributions by the largest war profiteers — Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon and others — have a toxic effect on our national priorities. It’s doubly galling, in that their profits come almost entirely from military contracts paid for by our tax dollars, which they then use to impact legislation and elections to benefit their interests, to the detriment of those of the taxpaying public.

It is not necessary to pinpoint cause and effect on this state of affairs, where Pentagon interests and macho militarist approaches seemingly run roughshod over everything else, to declare that it is wrong, and needs to be changed. And there is no blame, only respect, for those serving in the military, who need the very best care we can provide as they return home from our misguided wars and far-flung military bases abroad (over 800 of them!).

So what is the mission of the U.S. military supposed to be? According to United States law, it is “Preserving the peace and security and providing for the defense of the United States, the Commonwealths and possessions and any areas occupied by the United States; Supporting the national policies; Implementing the national objectives; Overcoming any nations responsible for aggressive acts that imperil the peace and security of the United States.”

I see nothing there about “full-spectrum dominance” of the rest of the world, as the Pentagon’s joint Vision 20/20 doctrine released in 2000 advocates, and which has seemingly become the military’s de facto mission.

Regardless of what anyone in the military says its mission is, they work for us, the taxpayers that provide their salaries and buy their weapons. So we can overrule them and force the Pentagon to reduce its role and get back in its lane.

It shouldn’t be hard to see how we can get the Pentagon back in its lane, and let more peaceful, just and sustainable priorities prevail in our domestic and foreign policies. Slash the Pentagon budget by at least 25%, and invest those savings in human and environmental needs in order to jump start our economy. Let diplomacy take precedence in foreign policy over military threats and false solutions. I suspect many people, even in the military hierarchy, might welcome such a reduced role in U.S. policy, and in the world. It must be tiring driving all over the road. Staying in one’s own lane can have its advantages.

Kevin Martin is Executive Director of Peace Action, the country’s largest peace and disarmament organization with 100,000 members and over 70,000 on-line supporters.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby elfismiles » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:46 am

Source link added for clarity/posterity.

justdrew wrote:

Yemeni activist condemns ‘terror’ of drone strikes in emotional speech to senatorsBy Eric W. Dolan
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 19:53 EDT
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/23/y ... -senators/

A Yemeni activist and writer gave an emotional testimony to members of the Senate on Tuesday afternoon, expressing the anguish he felt after the country he had grown to love became the country that terrorized his home.

“Just six days ago, my village was struck by an American drone in an attack that terrified the region’s poor farmers,” Farea Al-Muslimi said during a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee hearing on drone strikes.

Al-Muslimi explained he owed many of the happiest years of his life to the United States. He grew up in the small Yemeni village of Wessab, where his father earned less than $200 a month farming. Thanks to U.S. State Department scholarships, Al-Muslimi was able to attend a California high school and later attended American University in Beirut.

“I could never have imagined that the same hand that changed my life, and took it from a miserable to a promising one, would also drone my village. My understanding is that a man named Hameed Meftah was the target of the drone strike. Many people in Wessab know Al-Radmi and the Yemeni government could have easily found and arrested him,” he said.

“In the past, what Wessab villagers knew of the U.S. was based on my stories about my wonderful experiences here. The friendships and values I experienced and described to the villagers helped them understand the America that I know and that I love. Now, however, when they think of America they think of the terror they feel from the drones that hover over their heads ready to fire missiles at any time.”

Al-Muslimi described drone strikes as the “face of America” in Yemen and warned they were creating anti-American sentiment. He gruesomely described how civilians were often killed by drone strikes on small villages.

“I believe in America, and I deeply believe when Americans know about how much pain and suffering the U.S. airstrikes have caused… they will reject this devastating targeted killing program,” he concluded.

Sens. Dick Durbin (D-IL) and Patrick Leahy (D-VT) held the hearing on Tuesday to investigate the use of drone strikes against suspected terrorists in Pakistan and Yemen. At the hearing, Durbin called on the Obama administration to release information about its drone strike program. He also warned the United States “may undermine our counterterrorism efforts if we do not carefully measure the benefits and costs of targeted killing.”

Watch video, uploaded to YouTube by Sen. Dick Durbin, below:

User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby elfismiles » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:51 am

SkyNet DroneWar seems like bipartisan continuation of Bill Clinton's "Cruise Missile Diplomacy" to me ...

So we have 1/3 of domestic terror cases in the US fomented by the FBI's entrapment strategem, some other portion possible covert-ops for various agendas, and still other portions are "legitimately" caused as blowback from American Foreign Policy.

Yeah, we're fucked - might as well keep bombing everyone everywhere.

justdrew wrote:This direction was set by bush, FOX, and republicans in congress, it's going to take time to turn it around.
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8512
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:31 pm

elfismiles wrote:SkyNet DroneWar seems like bipartisan continuation of Bill Clinton's "Cruise Missile Diplomacy" to me ...


That rant above - I was actually thinking of Clinton's policy of randomly sending cruise missiles around the joint when he couldn't get a root as well, its a continuum.
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 10616
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby Canadian_watcher » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:48 pm

justdrew wrote:drones warfare has to be controlled. I don't care for this approach, but it's the political situation as it stands. Hammer corporate media for it's cheer-leading.


what about you? can we hammer you for yours?
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby justdrew » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:40 pm

Canadian_watcher wrote:
justdrew wrote:drones warfare has to be controlled. I don't care for this approach, but it's the political situation as it stands. Hammer corporate media for it's cheer-leading.


what about you? can we hammer you for yours?


hammer away :eeyaa

so you think it's good parenting to take your child to a lawless strife ridden country and start your career as a terrorist 'leader' ?

I'd very much like to see these 'signature strikes' ended and recognized as a bad evil policy.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby Canadian_watcher » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:12 pm

justdrew wrote:I'd very much like to see these 'signature strikes' ended and recognized as a bad evil policy.


yes, well...

justdrew wrote:I suspect Obama would very much like it if congress would reign in the CIA's damned 'signature strikes' - in fact Obama called them off for a time, then reversed that. Why? We don't know :shrug:



he seems not to give too much of a shit:

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/senators-obama-drones/2013/04/24/id/501148
or in case you don't like that source (I'm not familiar with it) Here's Democracy Now:

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/4/24/as_obama_shuns_hearing_yemeni_says

All this well wishing and hoping and ascribing the best possible motives to the leader is getting you nowhere.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby justdrew » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:43 pm

whatevah :grumpy .

but hey...
here's one of those actors cast to play the role of our elected representatives in the ongoing US government hoax... so don't bother to vote, or actually get involved with actual politics

Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA) on Wednesday called for the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) to be repealed.

“I’m convinced that if we do not repeal this authorization to use force that I voted against in 2001, we are going to see this state of perpetual war forever,” she told Current TV’s John Fugelsang.

Congress approved the AUMF just days after the September 11 terrorist attacks, giving the President authority to wage war “against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks.” Lee was the only member of Congress to vote against it, describing it as a “blank check” for war.

The Obama administration has used the AUMF as a legal justification for its targeted drone strike program in Pakistan and Yemen.

“The use of drones in many instances creates more hatred, more anger, more hostility toward our country,” Lee added, citing the recent congressional testimony of a young Yemeni activist.


congress has to do this, the president is forcing them to make the move, and it's high time they do.

By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby Canadian_watcher » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:54 pm

justdrew wrote:whatevah :grumpy .


sorry, I couldn't read the rest of your post after your ignorant, hypocritical and childish dismissal of the evidence I set before you.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: One Drone Thread to Rule them ALL

Postby justdrew » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:58 pm

Canadian_watcher wrote:
justdrew wrote:whatevah :grumpy .


sorry, I couldn't read the rest of your post after your ignorant, hypocritical and childish dismissal of the evidence I set before you.


I was dismissing this...
All this well wishing and hoping and ascribing the best possible motives to the leader is getting you nowhere.


as for Obama not sending someone to the hearing? No shit, it's mentioned prominently in every story I've posted about said hearing.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 168 guests