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psynapz wrote:Forgive me if you saw this on the "2016" thread, but since it sunk like a fucking rock the day I posted this, and since it took for fucking ever to write, and since it cost me what would be a month's salary in the third world in lost billable hours while writing it, and since it's literally keeping me up at night pondering it, and since, despite the issues having been raised in this thread already, I'm still not satisfied that the whole point has been adequately addressed amid all the shit-slinging, I thought I'd cross-post it here just in case anybody has anything else interesting to say in response to it here:psynapz wrote:So I'm troubled by Rory's point about disenfranchised human beings bound to be affected by slashing federal funds for social programs if the Republican machine of inhuman blithe ruthlessness regains executive power. I don't want that. But I also don't want to act based on fear. I mean, In the short term, real measurable damage is done to so many things when these fuckers seize and wield executive control, but in the long term, that's just going to keep happening unless there's a populist challenge to the de-facto binary system by fielding third-party candidates. Every time a third-party candidate gains momentum, undeniable grassroots support and overall campaign visibility, an incremental step is indelibly taken towards mounting a challenge to the two-party paradigm. It's like the peak indicators in a graphical EQ on a stereo -- every time a note or a beat exceeds the highest level previously attained in that frequency range, the high point is marked by, say, a red LED. Hunter S. Thompson famously wrote about the high water mark of the 60's, attained just before the energy crested and receded. It was framed tragically in his context, but over the long term, every attempt at popular revolution, every time an opportunity to create uncontrolled situations and take advantage of the chaos to create new forms and push the envelope of given assumptions, the range of possibility for the outcome of all future actions along those lines is widened. Eventually it's going to include some incremental but fantastic goal, like a governorship or senate seat. And someday, who knows.
But even if Jill Stein doesn't get elected (and I'm told by an elector from another state that she's on the ballot in enough states to win the electoral college), which I'm gonna say, not to be defeatist, but she straight up won't (because we'd have to have seen a much broader and energetic build-up already), the very act of fielding a third-party candidate that grabs a not-insignificant percentage of the votes (like Ron Paul) does push the Overton window a bit more, and embolden politicos into more vigorous campaign work next time around, and emboldens potential third-party voters into overcoming the pack-mentality fear of taking an unpopular action or converting from bystander to responder. Every time that envelope is pushed, it not only becomes more possible to elect a third-party president who can not only attempt, but be in the best possible political position to enact some radical systemic improvements. All it takes is popular will. And more of it.
Speaking of popular will, what happened to the Occupy project to create a constitutional convention in the US? That sounded like a great idea for expediting some world-saving radical changes. You know, Occupy showed a lot of us that we're not alone in our righteous outrage and that there is definitely, undeniably a sleeping giant that's more savvy and psyops-resistant (not -proof, but definitely -resistant) than perhaps most of us could have conceived of from our perspective here in the beach bar on Wells Island, and there is this sense of freshly-realistic-seeming potential for the application of real, actual popular power in what has otherwise seemed to be an unmovable, entrenched, criminal power structure. We owe this to scholarly experts (young and old) who applied their expertise within Occupy (and the Indignados, and others, but I'm using Occupy as shorthand here) to non-violently create crisis to which the system must respond wherever and whenever they could on whatever scale, which is of course using the criminals' own Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis method against them ingeniously and effectively.
But in the meantime, does raising the bar on the acceptable number of viable presidential candidates while knowing it's handing over another piece of that precious DMZ of non-robot-voters between an Obama re-election and a Romney victory, plus the free cookie it earns (yum!), actually worth the short-to-medium-term risk to what's left of all the social and environmental safeguards upon which the people and planet rely, ultimately for survival? Or is that like the needs of the many (the long-term need for it to be really possible to vote a third-party in) outweigh the needs of the few (those relying upon the next four years being a non-Republican term), and a bitter medicine we must risk having to swallow in order to create possibility for our childrens' lives by confronting the binary system with a creative crisis to which it must respond?
On edit:
Obama moves to make the War on Terror permanent
Complete with a newly coined, creepy Orwellian euphemism – 'disposition matrix' – the administration institutionalizes the most extremist powers a government can claim
Glenn Greenwald
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 24 October 2012 08.17 EDT
(updated below - Update II - Update III)
A primary reason for opposing the acquisition of abusive powers and civil liberties erosions is that they virtually always become permanent, vested not only in current leaders one may love and trust but also future officials who seem more menacing and less benign.
The Washington Post has a crucial and disturbing story this morning by Greg Miller about the concerted efforts by the Obama administration to fully institutionalize – to make officially permanent – the most extremist powers it has exercised in the name of the war on terror.
Based on interviews with "current and former officials from the White House and the Pentagon, as well as intelligence and counterterrorism agencies", Miller reports that as "the United States' conventional wars are winding down", the Obama administration "expects to continue adding names to kill or capture lists for years" (the "capture" part of that list is little more than symbolic, as the US focus is overwhelmingly on the "kill" part). Specifically, "among senior Obama administration officials, there is broad consensus that such operations are likely to be extended at least another decade." As Miller puts it: "That timeline suggests that the United States has reached only the midpoint of what was once known as the global war on terrorism."
In pursuit of this goal, "White House counterterrorism adviser John O Brennan is seeking to codify the administration's approach to generating capture/kill lists, part of a broader effort to guide future administrations through the counterterrorism processes that Obama has embraced." All of this, writes Miller, demonstrates "the extent to which Obama has institutionalized the highly classified practice of targeted killing, transforming ad-hoc elements into a counterterrorism infrastructure capable of sustaining a seemingly permanent war."
The Post article cites numerous recent developments reflecting this Obama effort, including the fact that "CIA Director David H Petraeus is pushing for an expansion of the agency's fleet of armed drones", which "reflects the agency's transformation into a paramilitary force, and makes clear that it does not intend to dismantle its drone program and return to its pre-September 11 focus on gathering intelligence." The article also describes rapid expansion of commando operations by the US Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) and, perhaps most disturbingly, the creation of a permanent bureaucratic infrastructure to allow the president to assassinate at will:
"JSOC also has established a secret targeting center across the Potomac River from Washington, current and former U.S. officials said. The elite command's targeting cells have traditionally been located near the front lines of its missions, including in Iraq and Afghanistan. But JSOC created a 'national capital region' task force that is a 15-minute commute from the White House so it could be more directly involved in deliberations about al-Qaeda lists."
The creepiest aspect of this development is the christening of a new Orwellian euphemism for due-process-free presidential assassinations: "disposition matrix". Writes Miller:
"Over the past two years, the Obama administration has been secretly developing a new blueprint for pursuing terrorists, a next-generation targeting list called the 'disposition matrix'.
"The matrix contains the names of terrorism suspects arrayed against an accounting of the resources being marshaled to track them down, including sealed indictments and clandestine operations. US officials said the database is designed to go beyond existing kill lists, mapping plans for the 'disposition' of suspects beyond the reach of American drones."
The "disposition matrix" has been developed and will be overseen by the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC). One of its purposes is "to augment" the "separate but overlapping kill lists" maintained by the CIA and the Pentagon: to serve, in other words, as the centralized clearinghouse for determining who will be executed without due process based upon how one fits into the executive branch's "matrix". As Miller describes it, it is "a single, continually evolving database" which includes "biographies, locations, known associates and affiliated organizations" as well as "strategies for taking targets down, including extradition requests, capture operations and drone patrols". This analytical system that determines people's "disposition" will undoubtedly be kept completely secret; Marcy Wheeler sardonically said that she was "looking forward to the government's arguments explaining why it won't release the disposition matrix to ACLU under FOIA".
This was all motivated by Obama's refusal to arrest or detain terrorist suspects, and his resulting commitment simply to killing them at will (his will). Miller quotes "a former US counterterrorism official involved in developing the matrix" as explaining the impetus behind the program this way: "We had a disposition problem."
The central role played by the NCTC in determining who should be killed – "It is the keeper of the criteria," says one official to the Post – is, by itself, rather odious. As Kade Crockford of the ACLU of Massachusetts noted in response to this story, the ACLU has long warned that the real purpose of the NCTC – despite its nominal focus on terrorism - is the "massive, secretive data collection and mining of trillions of points of data about most people in the United States".
In particular, the NCTC operates a gigantic data-mining operation, in which all sorts of information about innocent Americans is systematically monitored, stored, and analyzed. This includes "records from law enforcement investigations, health information, employment history, travel and student records" – "literally anything the government collects would be fair game". In other words, the NCTC - now vested with the power to determine the proper "disposition" of terrorist suspects - is the same agency that is at the center of the ubiquitous, unaccountable surveillance state aimed at American citizens.
Worse still, as the ACLU's legislative counsel Chris Calabrese documented back in July in a must-read analysis, Obama officials very recently abolished safeguards on how this information can be used. Whereas the agency, during the Bush years, was barred from storing non-terrorist-related information about innocent Americans for more than 180 days – a limit which "meant that NCTC was dissuaded from collecting large databases filled with information on innocent Americans" – it is now free to do so. Obama officials eliminated this constraint by authorizing the NCTC "to collect and 'continually assess' information on innocent Americans for up to five years".
And, as usual, this agency engages in these incredibly powerful and invasive processes with virtually no democratic accountability:
"All of this is happening with very little oversight. Controls over the NCTC are mostly internal to the DNI's office, and important oversight bodies such as Congress and the President's Intelligence Oversight Board aren't notified even of 'significant' failures to comply with the Guidelines. Fundamental legal protections are being sidestepped. For example, under the new guidelines, Privacy Act notices (legal requirements to describe how databases are used) must be completed by the agency that collected the information. This is in spite of the fact that those agencies have no idea what NCTC is actually doing with the information once it collects it.
"All of this amounts to a reboot of the Total Information Awareness Program that Americans rejected so vigorously right after 9/11."
It doesn't require any conspiracy theorizing to see what's happening here. Indeed, it takes extreme naiveté, or wilful blindness, not to see it.
What has been created here - permanently institutionalized - is a highly secretive executive branch agency that simultaneously engages in two functions: (1) it collects and analyzes massive amounts of surveillance data about all Americans without any judicial review let alone search warrants, and (2) creates and implements a "matrix" that determines the "disposition" of suspects, up to and including execution, without a whiff of due process or oversight. It is simultaneously a surveillance state and a secretive, unaccountable judicial body that analyzes who you are and then decrees what should be done with you, how you should be "disposed" of, beyond the reach of any minimal accountability or transparency.
The Post's Miller recognizes the watershed moment this represents: "The creation of the matrix and the institutionalization of kill/capture lists reflect a shift that is as psychological as it is strategic." As he explains, extra-judicial assassination was once deemed so extremist that very extensive deliberations were required before Bill Clinton could target even Osama bin Laden for death by lobbing cruise missiles in East Africa. But:
Targeted killing is now so routine that the Obama administration has spent much of the past year codifying and streamlining the processes that sustain it.
To understand the Obama legacy, please re-read that sentence. As Murtaza Hussain put it when reacting to the Post story: "The US agonized over the targeted killing Bin Laden at Tarnak Farms in 1998; now it kills people it barely suspects of anything on a regular basis."
The pragmatic inanity of the mentality driving this is self-evident: as I discussed yesterday (and many other times), continuous killing does not eliminate violence aimed at the US but rather guarantees its permanent expansion. As a result, wrote Miller, "officials said no clear end is in sight" when it comes to the war against "terrorists" because, said one official, "we can't possibly kill everyone who wants to harm us" but trying is "a necessary part of what we do". Of course, the more the US kills and kills and kills, the more people there are who "want to harm us". That's the logic that has resulted in a permanent war on terror.
But even more significant is the truly radical vision of government in which this is all grounded. The core guarantee of western justice since the Magna Carta was codified in the US by the fifth amendment to the constitution: "No person shall . . . be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." You simply cannot have a free society, a worthwhile political system, without that guarantee, that constraint on the ultimate abusive state power, being honored.
And yet what the Post is describing, what we have had for years, is a system of government that – without hyperbole – is the very antithesis of that liberty. It is literally impossible to imagine a more violent repudiation of the basic blueprint of the republic than the development of a secretive, totally unaccountable executive branch agency that simultaneously collects information about all citizens and then applies a "disposition matrix" to determine what punishment should be meted out. This is classic political dystopia brought to reality (despite how compelled such a conclusion is by these indisputable facts, many Americans will view such a claim as an exaggeration, paranoia, or worse because of this psychological dynamic I described here which leads many good passive westerners to believe that true oppression, by definition, is something that happens only elsewhere).
In response to the Post story, Chris Hayes asked: "If you have a 'kill list', but the list keeps growing, are you succeeding?" The answer all depends upon what the objective is.
As the Founders all recognized, nothing vests elites with power – and profit – more than a state of war. That is why there were supposed to be substantial barriers to having them start and continue - the need for a Congressional declaration, the constitutional bar on funding the military for more than two years at a time, the prohibition on standing armies, etc. Here is how John Jay put it in Federalist No 4:
"It is too true, however disgraceful it may be to human nature, that nations in general will make war whenever they have a prospect of getting anything by it; nay, absolute monarchs will often make war when their nations are to get nothing by it, but for the purposes and objects merely personal, such as thirst for military glory, revenge for personal affronts, ambition, or private compacts to aggrandize or support their particular families or partisans. These and a variety of other motives, which affect only the mind of the sovereign, often lead him to engage in wars not sanctified by justice or the voice and interests of his people."
In sum, there are factions in many governments that crave a state of endless war because that is when power is least constrained and profit most abundant. What the Post is reporting is yet another significant step toward that state, and it is undoubtedly driven, at least on the part of some, by a self-interested desire to ensure the continuation of endless war and the powers and benefits it vests. So to answer Hayes' question: the endless expansion of a kill list and the unaccountable, always-expanding powers needed to implement it does indeed represent a great success for many. Read what John Jay wrote in the above passage to see why that is, and why few, if any, political developments should be regarded as more pernicious.
Detention policies
Assuming the Post's estimates are correct – that "among senior Obama administration officials, there is broad consensus that such operations are likely to be extended at least another decade" – this means that the war on terror will last for more than 20 years, far longer than any other American war. This is what has always made the rationale for indefinite detention – that it is permissible to detain people without due process until the "end of hostilities" – so warped in this context. Those who are advocating that are endorsing nothing less than life imprisonment - permanent incarceration – without any charges or opportunities to contest the accusations.
That people are now dying at Guantanamo after almost a decade in a cage with no charges highlights just how repressive that power is. Extend that mentality to secret, due-process-free assassinations – something the US government clearly intends to convert into a permanent fixture of American political life – and it is not difficult to see just how truly extremist and anti-democratic "war on terror" proponents in both political parties have become.
UPDATE
As I noted yesterday, Afghan officials reported that three Afghan children were killed on Saturday by NATO operations. Today, reports CNN, "missiles blew up part of a compound Wednesday in northwest Pakistan, killing three people - including one woman" and added: "the latest suspected U.S. drone strike also injured two children." Meanwhile, former Obama press secretary and current campaign adviser Robert Gibbs this week justified the US killing of 16-year-old American Abdulrahaman Awlaki, killed by a US drone in Yemen two weeks after his father was, on the ground that he "should have a far more responsible father".
Also yesterday, CNN profiled Abu Sufyan Said al-Shihri, alleged to be a top al-Qaida official in Yemen. He pointed out "that U.S. drone strikes are helping al-Qaida in Yemen because of the number of civilian deaths they cause." Ample evidence supports his observation.
To summarize all this: the US does not interfere in the Muslim world and maintain an endless war on terror because of the terrorist threat. It has a terrorist threat because of its interference in the Muslim world and its endless war on terror.
UPDATE II
The Council on Foreign Relations' Micah Zenko, writing today about the Post article, reports:
"Recently, I spoke to a military official with extensive and wide-ranging experience in the special operations world, and who has had direct exposure to the targeted killing program. To emphasize how easy targeted killings by special operations forces or drones has become, this official flicked his hand back over and over, stating: 'It really is like swatting flies. We can do it forever easily and you feel nothing. But how often do you really think about killing a fly?'"
That is disturbingly consistent with prior reports that the military's term for drone victims is "bug splat". This - this warped power and the accompanying dehumanizing mindset - is what is being institutionalized as a permanent fixture in American political life by the current president.
UPDATE III
At Wired, Spencer Ackerman reacts to the Post article with an analysis entitled "President Romney Can Thank Obama for His Permanent Robotic Death List". Here is his concluding paragraph:
"Obama did not run for president to preside over the codification of a global war fought in secret. But that's his legacy. . . . Micah Zenko at the Council on Foreign Relations writes that Obama's predecessors in the Bush administration 'were actually much more conscious and thoughtful about the long-term implications of targeted killings', because they feared the political consequences that might come when the U.S. embraces something at least superficially similar to assassination. Whoever follows Obama in the Oval Office can thank him for proving those consequences don't meaningfully exist — as he or she reviews the backlog of names on the Disposition Matrix."
It's worth devoting a moment to letting that sink in.
JackRiddler wrote:I see that one of two things is going to happen. I prefer one of the only two possible outcomes for various reasons that have nothing to do with "support" for either of the two options. So please don't call me a baby killer, or apply that label to the majority who by choosing actively rather than watching the outcome happen genuinely believe they're doing the best they can under the circumstances.
The system is an abomination. It needs to be supplanted. It's all about what you do the other 365 days and 20 hours.
JackRiddler wrote:It's fine.
Long as you don't call me an "Obama supporter."
I see that one of two things is going to happen. I prefer one of the only two possible outcomes for various reasons that have nothing to do with "support" for either of the two options. So please don't call me a baby killer, or apply that label to the majority who by choosing actively rather than watching the outcome happen genuinely believe they're doing the best they can under the circumstances.
The system is an abomination. It needs to be supplanted. It's all about what you do the other 365 days and 20 hours.
Project Willow wrote:JackRiddler wrote:I see that one of two things is going to happen. I prefer one of the only two possible outcomes for various reasons that have nothing to do with "support" for either of the two options. So please don't call me a baby killer, or apply that label to the majority who by choosing actively rather than watching the outcome happen genuinely believe they're doing the best they can under the circumstances.
The system is an abomination. It needs to be supplanted. It's all about what you do the other 365 days and 20 hours.
I've swung back and forth a bit, but at this point, I can't agree with the tactical approach. I do see it as a moral dilemma. The majority don't give a fuck about people like me, they accept that there will be sacrifices, as long as it doesn't have to be them. I find it mightily uncomfortable to look people in the face who would willingly make a sacrifice of me. I can't name it anything but betrayal. It's well past time to stand up, not just the rest of the year, but in the voting booth.
Fresno_Layshaft wrote:spending hours on the internet
JackRiddler wrote:It's fine.
Long as you don't call me an "Obama supporter."
I see that one of two things is going to happen. I prefer one of the only two possible outcomes for various reasons that have nothing to do with "support" for either of the two options. So please don't call me a baby killer, or apply that label to the majority who by choosing actively rather than watching the outcome happen genuinely believe they're doing the best they can under the circumstances.
The system is an abomination. It needs to be supplanted. It's all about what you do the other 365 days and 20 hours.
“… we live in an interlocking world, in which no sphere and no area is insulated… [we] must choose our priorities, and do it on the basis of inadequate evidence. To disregard consequences in the name of purity of principle can itself often be a kind of indulgence and evasion.”
Ernest Gellner, 1990
JackRiddler wrote:Did I say yet anywhere on these threads that I was going to vote for Obama?
Nordic wrote:Wow. I just had the nauseating experience of reading probably 200 or more comments in a row (out of thousands) on Facebook under a photo of the Obama family at a page called "left Coast Voter". Probably 90 percent of them were from brainwashed right wingers saying how horrible Obama was for reasons such as "he doesn't support the military" or he "refuses to salute the flag" and especially because of this bizarre Benghazi thing, which they all believe is some kind of liberal cover up or some Fox News created scandal.
I think I saw exactly one comment that actually criticized Obama for the right and truthful reasons. The remainder of the comments wrre either blindly praising Obama ("i love this man as if he came out of my womb") or were just attacking the rw'ers for being stupid and racist.
If I were the head propagandist in this counyry I would be asking for a big fat raise. It's astounding how successful the propaganda program in this country is! Makes me want to puke, but it's astonishing nonetheless.
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