2016 Election Day Night

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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby DrEvil » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:07 pm

Freitag » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:07 am wrote:
seemslikeadream » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:05 pm wrote:oh sorry I was in a hurry ....now could you answer the question?

I want you to give me a legitimate reason to oppose illegal immigration


Because it's illegal.

Any chance you could answer my questions? Here they are again:

Freitag » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 pm wrote:Do you even believe a nation has the right to determine who does and does not enter into it? Are borders, themselves, racist to you?


But drugs are also illegal, and you want to legalize those, right? :?
Something being illegal doesn't automagically make it right.

Any chance you could answer my question from my previous post?
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:20 pm

Citibank (CitiGroup) Could Gain $4 Billion Dollars From Trump's Proposed Corporate Tax Cuts
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-citig ... 3B2A1?il=0


why should I care about how Freitag "illegal" persons would affect me?

I'd rather call corporations illegal
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby Belligerent Savant » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:28 pm

.
As if corporations weren't already reaping all manner of rewards under the current administration -- and would continue to do so regardless of the status quo fevered ego placed at the pulpit.

But go 'head; continue to proceed with the "TRUMP's THE DEVILLLLL!!!!!!!!" campaign. I think if y'all post along those lines enough times, he may be conjured OUT OF EXISTENCE!!

Surely you'll be testing that theory in due course.

Carry on.
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:37 pm

corporations hurt me way more than any "illegal" person could ever ...no matter who is president

and yes Trump is a racist and therefore evil
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby Belligerent Savant » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:40 pm

.
seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:37 pm wrote:corporations hurt me way more than any "illegal" person could ever ...no matter who is president


Don't disagree with you on that point.
Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:42 pm

no person can be considered "illegal"

no human being is illegal


Image
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:52 pm

By Shahid Haque-Hausrath, Immigration Attorney.

No Human Being is Illegal


One can rarely enter into a discussion about immigration without hearing the term "illegal alien," or references to undocumented immigrants as simply "illegals." Our basic discourse has come to accept these terms, despite the fact that they are highly inaccurate and pejorative. Whether intentional or accidental, the use of these terms has shaped public opinion on immigration policy. Of course, not everyone who uses these terms intends to color undocumented immigrants with the stigma that these terms carry with them. Therefore, the purpose of this editorial is to explain why these terms should be eliminated from our discourse.
When one refers to an immigrant as an "illegal alien," they are using the term as a noun. They are effectively saying that the individual, as opposed to any actions that the individual has taken, is illegal. The term “illegal alien” implies that a person’s existence is criminal. I’m not aware of any other circumstance in our common vernacular where a crime is considered to render the individual – as opposed to the individual’s actions – as being illegal. We don’t even refer to our most dangerous and vile criminals as being “illegal.”
"Illegal alien" is not a legal term. An alien is defined as anyone who is not a citizen or national of the United States. However, "illegal alien" is not a legal term in the Immigration and Nationality Act. For some, the use of the term "illegal alien" is likely based on a misconception that an immigrant's very presence in the United States is a criminal violation of the law. While the act of entering the country without inspection is a federal misdemeanor, and for repeat offenders could be a felony, the status of being present in the United States without a visa is not an ongoing criminal violation.
In addition, estimates are that almost half of the undocumented aliens in the United States actually entered with lawful status but merely overstayed their visas. These aliens have not committed a criminal offense at all. Their presence in United States while being out of status is a civil infraction, not a criminal offense.
To make it a criminal violation of the law to be present without a visa would be a "status offense." A status offense is an offense that is based on the fact that the offender has a certain personal condition or is of a specified character, rather than any action or inaction that the offender takes in violation of the law. A common example is vagrancy; if a law rendered homelessness illegal, then the status of being homeless would be criminal. Our courts wisely look upon status violations with heightened scrutiny, as the creation of status offenses infringe upon personal liberties and carry significant due process concerns.
Over the years, anti-immigration activists have proposed criminalizing the presence of the millions of immigrants here without documentation. Such attempts have failed, as our legislators have recognized that social, economic, and political forces often forcibly displace immigrants and compel them to come to the United States. To make federal criminal offenders of the individuals who are present in the United States under these circumstances would ignore their basic human rights.
By using the term "illegal alien" to refer to those without a visa or I-94 to show lawful entry into the United States, the speaker purports to assign guilt before a Judge ever considers the evidence and makes a determination on the individual's status. A basic principle of our legal system is innocence until guilt is proven. This same principle applies to removal hearings in immigration court, and the government bears the burden of proving removability.
When white collar criminals are arrested, we are careful to label them as "accused" and state that the government's accusations are merely "alleged." But when newspapers refer to immigration raids by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the headlines often repeat ICE's figures on the number of "illegal aliens" who were arrested. These individuals are effectively convicted in the media before trial ever begins. Officers in the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) often take full advantage of this to the detriment of the immigrants who are unfairly stigmatized as a result.
The reckless use of the term "illegal alien" is belied by the complexity of our immigration laws. Immigration attorneys often discover that their clients -- many of whom may have believed they were present without status -- are actually citizens or are entitled to adjust status to become lawful residents. Those without any specialized training in immigration law should be reluctant to make snap judgments on issues that they are not familiar with.
Further, the term is imprecise, and is used to encompass individuals who are in the United States under vastly different circumstances. Some individuals are brought here against their will, such as victims of human trafficking. Others come here on valid visas but subsequently fall out of status. For instance, many victims of domestic violence have legal status that depends on the continued sponsorship of their abuser. Some individuals are here under "temporary protected status" because of strife in their home country, but fall out of status when our government removes their protected status. To blanket all immigrants who are out of status as being "illegals" is overly simplistic.
For many, the term "illegal alien" serves an entirely different purpose. As David Bacon points out in his book "Illegal People: How Globalization Creates Immigration and Criminalizes Immigrants," the term is used as a divisive tool to define the social strata in which some believe that undocumented immigrants should be confined. It serves to distinguish those with papers from those without, and to cement the idea that "illegal" people should be entitled to fewer rights and privileges. Simply put, the term is an effective tool in the age old struggle of inequality between the "haves" and the "have nots."
The term "illegal alien" has been used to dehumanize immigrants and divorce ourselves from thinking of them as human beings. For some, this may serve as a defense mechanism to avoid feeling sympathy for undocumented immigrants, many of whom are separated from their children or loved ones when they are deported. However, Elie Wiesel, a Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize winner, wisely stated that "No human being is illegal." We should all take care to recognize this ideal and avoid using the term "illegal alien."
http://www.nohumanbeingisillegal.com/Home.html
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:05 pm

one more thing directed at Freitag for emphasis .....because apparently I have not repeated myself enough in this thread to get my point across

'illegal immigrant' is a slur

it is an ethnic slur ...therefore a racist statement and using that term needs to stop here


Why 'illegal immigrant' is a slur
By Charles Garcia, Special to CNN
Updated 12:14 PM ET, Fri July 6, 2012

Charles Garcia: Supreme Court majority was wise to avoid term "illegal immigrant"

The term suggests that individuals, rather than actions, are unlawful, he says

He says foreign nationals residing unlawfully in the U.S. are not criminals

Repetition of phrases like "illegal immigrant" is like a poison that infects society, Garcia says

Last month's Supreme Court decision in the landmark Arizona immigration case was groundbreaking for what it omitted: the words "illegal immigrants" and "illegal aliens," except when quoting other sources. The court's nonjudgmental language established a humanistic approach to our current restructuring of immigration policy.

When you label someone an "illegal alien" or "illegal immigrant" or just plain "illegal," you are effectively saying the individual, as opposed to the actions the person has taken, is unlawful. The terms imply the very existence of an unauthorized migrant in America is criminal.

In this country, there is still a presumption of innocence that requires a jury to convict someone of a crime. If you don't pay your taxes, are you an illegal? What if you get a speeding ticket? A murder conviction? No. You're still not an illegal. Even alleged terrorists and child molesters aren't labeled illegals.

By becoming judge, jury and executioner, you dehumanize the individual and generate animosity toward them. New York Times editorial writer Lawrence Downes says "illegal" is often "a code word for racial and ethnic hatred."

The term "illegal immigrant" was first used in 1939 as a slur by the British toward Jews who were fleeing the Nazis and entering Palestine without authorization. Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize winner Elie Wiesel aptly said that "no human being is illegal."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/05/opinion/g ... mmigrants/
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby Freitag » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:21 pm

DrEvil » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:08 am wrote:
Freitag » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:43 am wrote:Do you understand that it's possible to arrive at the same conclusion from different tracks? Person A wants illegal immigrants deported because they are a flaming racist. Person B wants them deported because they're a drain on public services, undermine our legal immigration system, on principle, whatever. These people want the same thing, but for different reasons. One set of reasons is deplorable, the other isn't. It's like if you voted to re-elect Obama because of the economic recovery, shared social values, etc. etc. But then someone else voted for him because they're on welfare and they know democrats give them more free stuff. Same conclusion, different tracks, one deplorable and one not. Quit assigning deplorable thought processes to people for wanting things that there is a legitimate argument for. Both Left and Right have fringe elements.


You're talking about Latinos


I am not talking about Latinos. I'm talking about illegal immigration of any creed or color.

Why is no one ranting about banning Christians?


Because being a Christian isn't illegal, whereas being an illegal immigrant is.

Why again is it not racist to want to ban all Muslims (and yeah, I know Muslim is a religious affiliation, but how many white Muslims are there)?


Because there's been a little problem with Islamic terrorism of late. We have to deal with reality as it is, not as we want it to be. We must be clear-eyed when it comes to national security. If some feelings have to be hurt, that's unfortunate, but the safety of the American people is of paramount importance.

And by the way, I understand that those are not your sensibilities. But you share the United States with Americans of all different opinions. Many of them just voiced their concern for their security with the election of Donald Trump. Just respect that we can be Americans and have different opinions.

Something being illegal doesn't automagically make it right.


Doesn't make it wrong, either.
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:26 pm

STOP IT NOW

stop using that ethnic racist slur

I have explained it to you over and over again and your insistence to keep using that racist slur can lead me to only one conclusion
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby 82_28 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:38 pm

Use it all the fuck you want, Freitag. It is not going to get any traction probably anywhere. Wait. You're an American. I guess you got your orange brick road to skip down. Being left or liberal means fucking nothing. What it means to me is that you care about people at all times, no matter what. Hatred or intimidation do not play well. Always do the opposite. Say you "hate" a minority, do the opposite and never allow for it because everyone has feelings that need to be meshed with.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby NeonLX » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:01 pm

It's a good thing this place wasn't a country when the Europeans started arriving.
America is a fucked society because there is no room for essential human dignity. Its all about what you have, not who you are.--Joe Hillshoist
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby Freitag » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:44 pm

SLAD, respectfully, don't tell me what to do. I'm tired of engaging with you, it's a complete waste of energy.
Last edited by Freitag on Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:45 pm

oh ok go ahead and post all the ethnic racist slurs you want
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: 2016 Election Day Night

Postby Freitag » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:47 pm

seemslikeadream » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:45 pm wrote:oh ok go ahead and post all the ethnic racist slurs you want


Please tell me which ethnicity the term "illegal immigrant" is racist against? Considering that a person of any race can be an illegal immigrant.
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