How Bad Is Global Warming?

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby coffin_dodger » Mon May 06, 2013 5:41 am

Arctic Ocean 'acidifying rapidly ' 6 May 2013

The Arctic seas are being made rapidly more acidic by carbon-dioxide emissions, according to a new report.

Scientists from Norway's Center for International Climate and Environmental Research monitored widespread changes in ocean chemistry in the region.

They say even if CO2 emissions stopped now, it would take tens of thousands of years for Arctic Ocean chemistry to revert to pre-industrial levels.

Many creatures, including commercially valuable fish, could be affected.

They forecast major changes in the marine ecosystem, but say there is huge uncertainty over what those changes will be.

It is well known that CO2 warms the planet, but less well-known that it also makes the alkaline seas more acidic when it is absorbed from the air.

more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22408341
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby coffin_dodger » Fri May 10, 2013 6:00 pm

Carbon dioxide passes symbolic mark - 10 May 2013

Carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere have broken through a symbolic mark.
Daily measurements of CO2 at a US government agency lab on Hawaii have topped 400 parts per million for the first time.
The station, which sits on the Mauna Loa volcano, feeds its numbers into a continuous record of the concentration of the gas stretching back to 1958.
The last time CO2 was regularly above 400ppm was three to five million years ago - before modern humans existed.


more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22486153
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Simulist » Sun May 12, 2013 3:19 pm

coffin_dodger wrote:
Carbon dioxide passes symbolic mark - 10 May 2013

Carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere have broken through a symbolic mark.
Daily measurements of CO2 at a US government agency lab on Hawaii have topped 400 parts per million for the first time.
The station, which sits on the Mauna Loa volcano, feeds its numbers into a continuous record of the concentration of the gas stretching back to 1958.
The last time CO2 was regularly above 400ppm was three to five million years ago - before modern humans existed.


more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22486153

What other topic in the news is more important than this single story?

Precisely now: WHICH ONE?!?
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Simulist » Sun May 12, 2013 3:19 pm

coffin_dodger wrote:
Carbon dioxide passes symbolic mark - 10 May 2013

Carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere have broken through a symbolic mark.
Daily measurements of CO2 at a US government agency lab on Hawaii have topped 400 parts per million for the first time.
The station, which sits on the Mauna Loa volcano, feeds its numbers into a continuous record of the concentration of the gas stretching back to 1958.
The last time CO2 was regularly above 400ppm was three to five million years ago - before modern humans existed.


more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22486153

What other topic in the news is more important than this single story?

Precisely now: WHICH ONE?!?
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Sun May 12, 2013 3:21 pm

None, whatsoever.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby coffin_dodger » Sun May 12, 2013 5:26 pm

Simulist wrote:What other topic in the news is more important than this single story?

Precisely now: WHICH ONE?!?


Indeed.

Have you seen Guy McPherson over at Nature Bats Last latest update?
http://guymcpherson.com/2013/01/climate-change-summary-and-update/

Let's hope he's overstating the problems.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Sun May 12, 2013 6:02 pm

coffin_dodger wrote:Let's hope he's overstating the problems.


I hope you're right, but I don't think so. :)

It's like he says - scientists and researchers are a conservative bunch, and if anything they have been understating things. The worst case scenarios from previous IPCC reports are now the best case scenarios.

What worries me the most is the idea of a tipping point. That we mess up so badly that our climate goes into overdrive, completely destabilizes and then finds a new equilibrium.
If that happens there's no guarantee that the new equilibrium is even remotely friendly to humans, or complex life for that matter.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby coffin_dodger » Sun May 12, 2013 6:39 pm

DrEvil wrote:...What worries me the most is the idea of a tipping point....


I'm more worried about how far past the tipping point we are. Mind you, I worry a lot.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Jerky » Sun May 12, 2013 7:53 pm

I may be growing slightly more eco-skeptic, but I would still love to see James Delingpole repeatedly run over by a tractor trailer.

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon May 13, 2013 1:27 am

They’re mired in the dank Swamp of Nothingness.

Too bad that's not true, though that's certainly what some are saying. It's more like their draining the swamp of nothingness in pursuit of evermore profit.

Capitalism demands growth. New resources, new markets, new profits from new conveniences for new suckers who believe such "things" will somehow improve their life and unburden them from all the world's troubles. Money!

We cannot change anything unless we first change our values. Good luck with that. Perhaps you've noticed the rancor over recent gun control measures between those of differing opinions?

Environmentalists are being portrayed as worse than obstructionists to corporate giants when all we really want is for industry to pollute less. To be responsible to the people from whom they derive their profits and host their polluting presence while bearing the brunt of its damage. To their health, their waters and their lands. And when they have either exhausted the area's natural resources or have polluted the area so greatly it will become a hazardous EPA Superfund site, they abandon the site, laying off their workers and leave town altogether, never to return.

Capitalists take the Libertarian view, that self-regulation is all that's needed, and any interruption of their schedule beyond that which they've planned for is downright unAmerican.
Regulations impact the bottom line. Pollution devices are expensive. Global warming is a hoax. Get out of the way of progress!

Simulist wrote,
coffin_dodger wrote:

Carbon dioxide passes symbolic mark - 10 May 2013

Carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere have broken through a symbolic mark.
Daily measurements of CO2 at a US government agency lab on Hawaii have topped 400 parts per million for the first time.
The station, which sits on the Mauna Loa volcano, feeds its numbers into a continuous record of the concentration of the gas stretching back to 1958.
The last time CO2 was regularly above 400ppm was three to five million years ago - before modern humans existed.



more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22486153



What other topic in the news is more important than this single story?

Precisely now: WHICH ONE?!?

Dr. Evil wrote,
None, whatsoever.


Quite true. What are you doing about it? Just wondering.

Unfortunately we have introduced a most inappropriate term. "Tipping Point." Some imaginary date in the future. The problem is that we have passed the tipping point. We pass it every day. And each and every day that passes we add new sources of pollution in addition to those long present. It's not getting better all the time. We're dying.

And we'll take at least 75% of earth's species with us before the oceans evaporate away.

Drought persists in the central US, though they have experience recent near record flooding, and our great lakes are being emptied faster than they can be recharged. Yeah, our water is disappearing at an incredible rate. An unsustainable rate. And hydrofracking is wasting, no, worse, poisoning billions of gallons of fresh water that will remain unrecoverable and irradiated forever. Methane emissions are astronomical across the industry and while natural gas does burn rather cleanly, its extraction causes its carbon footprint to be as dirty as burning coal.

Hopefully you'll all live out your lives before the worst. I Pray for future generations well-being and dread to think about what survival for them will be like. The worst in humanity will come out. The biolabs doors will be left open. There won't be enough food to support the military and martial law will evaporate. First the mobs, then the gangs. Then the food dies.

And no fucking body cares enough to light a fire under their representatives' ass. Or to protest and object to their local proposed climate warming project, the current trend being any form of thermal treatment, gasification and synthetic fuels. (wouldn't batteries be better?)

These awful people are killing us and in doing nothing to slow the machine, we'll never stop it, but I'll die trying. It's lonely. Love your grandchildren? Of course you do, so why not give them the gift of life? Get involved. It's a tad more important than any war and at the moment, maybe a bit more important than nuclear weapons, nuclear power and nuclear waste, too.

What's on TV?

Whaddaya mean there no weed?

Maybe that's another way for some to look at it? Please do something.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon May 13, 2013 2:24 am

There are too many links embedded into the original for me to incorporate here. But the first given in the article, to Environment Canada, relates some very disturbing news about the diminishing water levels of the Great Lakes and shares current and historical figures for each lake.

Here's a link to the original. (Sorry, I do not know how to embed this type of video!)
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/geekquinox/concerns-rising-over-low-great-lakes-water-levels-173524590.html

Concerns are rising over significantly low Great Lakes water levels

By Scott Sutherland | Geekquinox – Mon, 6 May, 2013

Despite winter's wet, snowy weather seeming to latch on to the Great Lakes area with a death-grip going into spring, water levels in the lakes are still well below normal and this is raising concerns about the effect this will have on the environment, lakeside businesses, and consumers' wallets.

According to Environment Canada, water levels are down across the Great Lakes. As of the beginning of April, levels ranged from 17 cm below the 1918-2012 average in Lake Ontario, to 68 cm below the average for Lakes Huron and Michigan, and these levels are significantly lower than last year at this time.

Visit http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/geekquinox/concerns-rising-over-low-great-lakes-water-levels-173524590.html for video

"Levels are down," said Toronto boater Philip Hill, in a report on CBC's The National on Saturday. "We're all worried."

For those that depend on the ferry service between Manitoulin Island, Tobermory and the Bruce Peninsula, their livelihood is at stake due to the low water levels causing a delay in service. Mary, a hotel owner along Lake Huron, told the CBC: "I'm very upset. I don't have a livelihood."

The situation is having an impact on the consumer as well, since cargo ships need to carry less to avoid bottoming out in these low waters. This raises the cost of their cargo, which is directly reflected in the prices consumers see on store shelves.

Part of the reason for the lack of water is the significant drought experienced in the United States last year. This meant that there was far less precipitation coming into the Great Lakes basin than normal, and even a return to more 'typical' wet weather this winter couldn't make up for it. Also, even with winter clinging on to the area going into the start of spring, there was still less ice on the Great Lakes than normal, and the relatively drier weather over the month of March and the latter half of April has seemingly undone any gains the lakes may have seen.

"We have less ice in the wintertime," said John Nevin, of the International Joint Commission, told the The National in a Skype interview. "If you have less ice, you have increased evaporation, especially in the winter."

"Evaporation is actually the number one cause of water loss in the Great Lakes," he added.

The International Joint Commission (IJC) is a joint Canada-U.S. organization that monitors water levels and water quality in the Great Lakes, and acts to identify and hopefully prevent any conflicts from the two countries' use of the lakes and connecting waterways.

There are also other issues that cause a serious drain on the lake water levels. Dredging of the St. Clair River, to allow larger cargo ships to pass through the lakes, has increase the drainage of Lakes Huron far beyond normal amounts, and the shoreline ecosystems and the businesses that depend on ferry services are both suffering. Also, municipalities draw from the lake system, as do industries.

Word has come of some relief for Lake Huron and Georgian Bay, though. Just last week, reports came out saying that the Commission was recommending that structures be built in the St. Clair River to slow the flow of water out of Lake Huron, but the returns on that could be slow in coming.

"Acting now is a bit of challenge because to do anything takes time … you are dealing with two levels of government, two national governments," said Ted Yuzyk, the IJC’s director of science and engineering, according to CTV News. "Even if we start now, we’re looking years out before anything is actually fully accomplished."

"People are going to have to adapt to the low water levels," he added. "So the commission is telling the government that adaptive management is a new strategy that the population is going to have to look at in a more serious manner."
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby justdrew » Mon May 13, 2013 2:56 am

hmmm

so...

well...

uh \<]

Seems like some major major geo-engineering projects are our only hope.

but we can't even get all the roofs painted white it seems like.

I just don't know. Next election is last chance. We either crush the republican party or it's over.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon May 13, 2013 3:21 am

It's not as though this has been unexpected.

From Great Lakes, Grand Problem: The Impacts of Significantly Lowered Lake Levels on the Industries, Ecosystems, and Individuals in the Great Lakes region

A White Paper Produced for the Citizens of Canada and the United States by Erika E. Lentz
Coastal Institute IGERT Project, May 12, 2006

"Increased water temperatures may require nuclear plants that depend on water to cool
their turbines to sink their intake pipes lower into the lake to obtain cooler waters."

"There are currently 11 nuclear power plants with 18 reactors on the U.S. side, and four nuclear power plant sites with 21 reactors on the Canadian side of the lakes
(Alliance for the Great Lakes 2004)."

<snip>

"Nuclear power is the second largest water user in the Great Lakes Basin, though this represents a small fraction when compared against the heavy water demands of the hydropower industry.

The hydroelectric industry in the Great Lakes region supplies approximately 25% of the
electricity for Ontario, and 10% for New York State, and depends on specific water levels to run their turbines (GLC 2002). Hydropower is not only cheaper (in the U.S. it costs $0.85 per kilowatt hour, which is 50% of the cost of nuclear, 40% of the cost of fossil fuel, and 25% of the cost of natural gas), it is a renewable resource. It is also cleaner to run than many other forms of energy production such as coal fired power plants, which makes it popular in the face of clean air standards. Approximately half of all the water withdrawn from the Great Lakes daily is put toward hydropower generation, though nearly most if not all of this water is returned to the lakes once it has passed through the plant (GLC 2002)."

That was written exactly seven years ago today, (now yesterday for me).
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby DrEvil » Mon May 13, 2013 4:39 am

The million dollar question. I'm not really sure if we have time to get to a consensus through normal channels before it's way too late. The 2020's should be interesting times indeed.

The only ideas I have for more.. um.. rapid change aren't exactly legal, but we're fast approaching a point where I would seriously consider some of them.

Right now, the way the system works, there's just way too much profit involved in killing us all.
The system needs some serious, bottom-up reform, or preferably, a fresh start altogether.
(By "system" I mean the capitalist system and the institutions that prop it up.)
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