'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 2012 Countdown » Thu May 27, 2010 8:11 pm

On an investing forum, there is a thread going on this subject. I do not agree with all of it, but I just thought I would post it here in its entirety, as anyone on the coast may find some of this info useful:
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I was waiting for..and am grateful that you made that above post. I know you were unconcerned about the oil spew at your location, but I am going out on boats and flying in helos to and from many areas just south of you. Just read all of my posts where I posted information that was anywhere from 2 days ahead of news media to sometimes more than a week ahead of news media. By no means, am I trying to toot my own horn. I'm too tired to toot. But the sub-surface oil levels are so tremendous that these "landings" could appear for the next 20 years, or more. The congealed oil could be hanging up on reefs or floor topographic rises only to appear after a good storm. One measure gone unreported, the slicks are reforming at different weights and levels-this really scares me as I cannot make calculations of slicks all at one level-they don't exist. Future landings, therefore, could appear at any time, from any depth, and stay (cleanup) rolling in for hugely variant time lengths. If the oil was allowed to stay on surface, skimming could have continued day and night, oil slicks tracked, bring in the Corps of Engineers and Navy, and use thousands of boats all coordinated by GPS mapping and scurrying from place to place to minimize affects.

My point is extremely relevant and your post is extremely important too. Your initial reaction is what I am up against over here in the panhandle on a daily basis. I've not screamed, "It's the end of the world" but rather told people to "please, please, prepare", the same that anyone would do for a hurricane. The preparation is not just get food and water stored, that's obvious. What is not obvious is to collect vasts amounts of data, pictures, interviews, etc. that can be used for the rounds and rounds of litigation to follow. Expect our home and business insurance companies to fail under the pressure of initial claims + ongoing claims. I've got three statements from FEMA saying it is doubtful that FEMA will be involved in paying claims. BP will have no assets-theirs being stripped by EPA. Who in the *ell is going to pay claims? Will this be like the stock market, "board up in May and go away?" This will come down to suing the incompetent government officials that are most likely to win, unless vast amounts of data are presented that show how incompetent they were, that nobody was taking responsible actions, and while they were partying downtown New Orleans almost every night, were they using government credit cards?

Doesn't everybody see that this oil spew has to fall on the liability of the government, or am I the only one out front on this? Don't post that it was BP's fault, blah, blah, blah, and they should be held accountable. They won't have the assets to sue, they are soon to be broke, and making themselves more judgment proof every day. The blame has to be pointed directly at the government, sans the terrific Coast Guard and the work they are trying to do, despite having incompetent bosses with strictly political agendas.

ANYBODY, reading these posts from Texas to Tampa to Palm Beach-get as much data as possible. I am making an online database that can be accessed for a small fee that will contain data and pictures as Plaintiff's evidence for legal actions. The fee will pay an IT guy 24/7 to help/assist property and business owners retrieve data. After much thought, this approach is better than going to news and getting shut down on new info coming in. We must crouch down like tigers and stalk our victims silently-while preparing for the kill. It's the only way.

For all you guys on the government dime that hit the NO night life, didn't Elliot's Client #9 teach you anything? You don't think that $50 hookers talk? How did you sleep, over at the Marriott, when workers are getting sick and oil continues to roll in. It's 3:00 a.m. right now where I am, and I can't sleep. In fact, I'm really fortunate to get 2 hours a night. My 2010 car has 37,000 miles on it-and it has not been north of I-10. But, all of your meetings, which half of you miss the conference room if scheduled at or before 8:00 (hangover) resulted in nothing anyway.

BTW, if you think the oil disaster in the marshes is close to the peak, consider this. Less than 1% of the oil that's coming to shore in those marshes has already arrived. This is what I've been stumping about. This disaster will continue for many, many years. All of these "rankings" about being in the top ten spills, yadda yadda, what numbers are you using? Are you counting the fact the Corexit 9500 has been used to "sink" as much as 90% of the oil? Are you ranking this spill based upon what is on top of the water? Isn't that a bit miscalculated and short-sided?

Again, if you live 0-50 miles north of the ocean, PLEASE have a contingency plan. Have a plan to remove your clothing, paintings, pictures, bedding, drapes, rugs, anything paper or cloth. These items, less likely to be paid for true value, should be spared. Not now, just be ready to move them.

Go to Costco or other big box mart and get those large rolls of plastic to wrap electronics and furniture. Go around same over and over until you feel that you have made them air tight. This would be stage II, just preparing furniture and electronics for move. You can easily make your own "vacuum" by cutting small round hole in plastic and using PVC pipe-then your vacuum cleaner to suck out air-tape over hole and check for leaks. This works extremely well for paintings and pictures in frames.

Know where to get U-Haul or other trailer and truck for Stage III, actually moving your wrapped items and moving them to storage or new living area at least 150-200 miles north of ocean. You can always bring them back later on. Get your storage space now-they are starting to dwindle down.

Have food and plenty of bottled water (gee, don't we all do this for hurricane season anyway?) to make trips moving furniture and other items. Buy whatever masks you can afford, from simple painter's masks at Home Depot or medical supply stores to elaborate ventilators found in surplus stores or on the Internet.

Get out your insurance policy and actually read it. Know where you stand. Call your agent. Know your procedure for filing claims. It will result in much less stress, believe me.

Wax your cars. Really. Wax them to protect the paint. Consider buying enough plastic to cover expensive landscaping (rarely covered by insurance) on really "bad" days. Yes, we will have really bad days. If you can afford to paint your house, do so now. Take pictures immediately after you paint. Take pictures of your landscaping. Take pictures of producing fruit and nut trees.

If the smell is inside your house, empty and shut off your refrigerator. Try to enter/leave your house as little as possible and store several boxes of a/c filters and change them frequently.

Cover an area with tarp or plastic to pull back for your pets to go to bathroom. DO NOT walk them through woods, grass, etc. as chemicals will accumulate in their fur and paws. It is very tough to get a dog or cat to wear a mask, so they should be moved at stage I.

Have enough gas to get you to your safety zone. If you have a small generator, or can afford to buy one, now is the time. I have several air cleaning units to introduce, and the factories that produce them will make them available at their wholesale factory price (60% savings). I would only buy these if you decide to return, whether the "all clear" has been given or not. Why take chances. These units remove particulates and other dangerous stuff. I'll have a factory number where you can deal with them direct.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 82_28 » Thu May 27, 2010 8:15 pm

I was just texted by a friend that's from southern LA: "this is the beginning of the end". It seems like the sentiment whether "true" or not down there is that this is Bush's fault ultimately. Can you confirm 2012, the sentiment?

In honor btw, we're having andouille, red beans and rice, okra and other unconfirmed things for dinner tonight. Just waiting for my lady to get back from the farmer's market.

Also, when are the fucking riots going to start? It's high time.

(Actually paradoxically, cajun food started sounding real good ever since this began.

RIP. Fucking awful.)
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 2012 Countdown » Thu May 27, 2010 8:20 pm

82_28 wrote:I was just texted by a friend that's from southern LA: "this is the beginning of the end". It seems like the sentiment whether "true" or not down there is that this is Bush's fault ultimately. Can you confirm 2012, the sentiment?

In honor btw, we're having andouille, red beans and rice, okra and other unconfirmed things for dinner tonight. Just waiting for my lady to get back from the farmer's market.

Also, when are the fucking riots going to start? It's high time.


I wished I could say so, as I truly despise the man, but that isn't prevailing opinion I don't think. BP and associates are getting blame, the federal agencies are, and Obama by his delay is getting big time blame. The righties here WILL find some way to blame 'big government' and the black guy. That why there was a moment, early last week, he could have come down, took control, got some equipment here...he would have been a HERO.

If this isn't stopped, it is no hyperbole to say an entire way of life for a million people hangs in the balance.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 2012 Countdown » Thu May 27, 2010 8:24 pm

Oh, the riots, yes...well, hard to riot when you're fighting oil. Those cajuns and bayou people are a quiet sort who keep to themselves. This is very taxing mentally too. Its all so sad.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby Jeff » Thu May 27, 2010 8:33 pm

2012 Countdown wrote:If this isn't stopped, it is no hyperbole to say an entire way of life for a million people hangs in the balance.


It's a regional catastrophe, rapidly becoming a global emergency.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby justdrew » Thu May 27, 2010 8:39 pm

well, here we go now...

I'll tell ya what, I'm not raising my taxes to pay claims to a part of this nation consistently electing regulation-hating republicans who enabled this mess by making a joke out of the regulatory apparatus. These states elected these government hating clowns and now they're going to expect payment of claims from BPs reckless failure to be paid by the hated fedrul-gubamint? This is their reward for decades of buying into "pro-business" propaganda from the republican party. democrats are to blame slightly but only because they didn't fight it hard enough, and they didn't because the electorate didn't want them to and would have and did vote out anyone who tried.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby bks » Thu May 27, 2010 8:49 pm

There is no getting around that BP was permitted to set the priorities for disaster response, and its priority was to 'bury the body. The dispersant, toxic in itself, is responsible for that subsurface oil which is doing untold damage to marine life and which will continue to for years.

Those who allowed this decision to be made will live in infamy.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 82_28 » Thu May 27, 2010 8:55 pm

justdrew wrote:well, here we go now...

I'll tell ya what, I'm not raising my taxes to pay claims to a part of this nation consistently electing regulation-hating republicans who enabled this mess by making a joke out of the regulatory apparatus. These states elected these government hating clowns and now they're going to expect payment of claims from BPs reckless failure to be paid by the hated fedrul-gubamint? This is their reward for decades of buying into "pro-business" propaganda from the republican party. democrats are to blame slightly but only because they didn't fight it hard enough, and they didn't because the electorate didn't want them to and would have and did vote out anyone who tried.


The slyly, OBVIOUSLY, used gays, guns, military, terror and finely honed media machine to bring us the likes of Jerry Springer et al, court shows featuring the illiterate idiots they created, fomented hatred in the "liberal" cities of the down home red neck racist folk etc etc. It's like, this friend of mine from LA (loozianna) and a number of others all rolled up here to the Pacific Northwest together about a decade ago and I worked with a few of them. At the time, I made fun of them, made fun of their accents, made fun of the south's racist "ideals" and was an overall dick. We're all close now, but goddamn, what would I be like had I not gotten to know these guys? The southern racist hick humor is second to none -- filthy basically (remember I am still anti-porn) -- but they're honest motherfuckers. Honest as hell. And I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt that some of the very best people on planet Earth hail from the southeast of the USA.

They do say it's a racial hellhole down there though still. And another anecdote -- when they moved here they were surprised at how much people care for their pets. They're all like "down south, people kick their dogs and keep em tied up" and thought the difference was striking. I suppose it is. But there are many good people down there without a doubt. Clever fuckers -- all tied up in the good ol' racial double bind and whatnot.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby smiths » Thu May 27, 2010 9:04 pm

anyone got anymore updates on those mystery 11 BP executives that were aboard, or was it 6 as wiki says?
11 workers killled, 17 injured
youd think given the shocking scope of this catastrophe that there would be a lot more information about those execs
and the completely fascist way they took the rig workers, held them for extremely long periods and tried to force them under a type of duress to sign statements
it does seem as though the incompetence is not endemic in government and corporate decision making though,
because when it comes intimidation, perverting the course of justice, secrecy, spinning, lying and withholding basic liberties they seem very efficient

i really always have been a very optimistic person, i am working very hard to keep that spirit of optimism going but all this shit does make it very difficult
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 2012 Countdown » Thu May 27, 2010 9:09 pm

justdrew wrote:well, here we go now...

I'll tell ya what, I'm not raising my taxes to pay claims to a part of this nation consistently electing regulation-hating republicans who enabled this mess by making a joke out of the regulatory apparatus. These states elected these government hating clowns and now they're going to expect payment of claims from BPs reckless failure to be paid by the hated fedrul-gubamint? This is their reward for decades of buying into "pro-business" propaganda from the republican party. democrats are to blame slightly but only because they didn't fight it hard enough, and they didn't because the electorate didn't want them to and would have and did vote out anyone who tried.


I can understand this sentiment. In fact in the early stages of this, I dropped comments about how all the 'drill baby drillers' should go out there and help clean up. Said much more abot all the things you mentioned about hating 'regulation', etc.. I said it with a cavalier attitude, 'see this is what you get'.

I must say though, the entire region should not be convdemned. There are large pockets of community minded, caring people. NO is heavy democratic, as are other areas. I only ask that you consider this and know we all aren't like that.

That's why it is disappointing. He could come in and SHOW these people why they need the government to regulate these corporations. Show them how government is SUPPOSED to work. His approval would go to the roof too.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 82_28 » Thu May 27, 2010 9:10 pm

smiths wrote:anyone got anymore updates on those mystery 11 BP executives that were aboard, or was it 6 as wiki says?
11 workers killled, 17 injured
youd think given the shocking scope of this catastrophe that there would be a lot more information about those execs
and the completely fascist way they took the rig workers, held them for extremely long periods and tried to force them under a type of duress to sign statements
it does seem as though the incompetence is not endemic in government and corporate decision making though,
because when it comes intimidation, perverting the course of justice, secrecy, spinning, lying and withholding basic liberties they seem very efficient

i really always have been a very optimistic person, i am working very hard to keep that spirit of optimism going but all this shit does make it very difficult


You are exactly right, smiths! There has been little to no mention of the crew members or execs, dead or alive in the media. I've been glued to this shit since it happened. Hide nor Hair.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby ninakat » Thu May 27, 2010 9:56 pm

Jeff wrote:
2012 Countdown wrote:If this isn't stopped, it is no hyperbole to say an entire way of life for a million people hangs in the balance.


It's a regional catastrophe, rapidly becoming a global emergency.


I agree Jeff, but I'm curious how you believe that might play out. Will it be primarily because of (a) the environmental devastation and potential spread far beyond the Gulf via the gulf stream and ocean currents, (b) the economic ramifications for the U.S. directly, and thereby indirectly to the rest of the world because of a faster dollar decline, (c) the resultant increase in resource wars, or (d) all of the above? I listed those in the order I see them occuring: environment, economy, war.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby justdrew » Thu May 27, 2010 10:14 pm

2012 Countdown wrote:
justdrew wrote:well, here we go now...

I'll tell ya what, I'm not raising my taxes to pay claims to a part of this nation consistently electing regulation-hating republicans who enabled this mess by making a joke out of the regulatory apparatus. These states elected these government hating clowns and now they're going to expect payment of claims from BPs reckless failure to be paid by the hated fedrul-gubamint? This is their reward for decades of buying into "pro-business" propaganda from the republican party. democrats are to blame slightly but only because they didn't fight it hard enough, and they didn't because the electorate didn't want them to and would have and did vote out anyone who tried.


I can understand this sentiment. In fact in the early stages of this, I dropped comments about how all the 'drill baby drillers' should go out there and help clean up. Said much more abot all the things you mentioned about hating 'regulation', etc.. I said it with a cavalier attitude, 'see this is what you get'.

I must say though, the entire region should not be convdemned. There are large pockets of community minded, caring people. NO is heavy democratic, as are other areas. I only ask that you consider this and know we all aren't like that.

That's why it is disappointing. He could come in and SHOW these people why they need the government to regulate these corporations. Show them how government is SUPPOSED to work. His approval would go to the roof too.


oh I have no doubt that everyone isn't like that, I know a few from down there myself, maybe you've seen King Louie play in his one man band format? and in the greater sense, blame can't be totally handed out by region, to a real extent the whole damn country has been asking for this kind of calamity for years. The senseless decision to pull the mud out and flood the well with seawater, because some BP managerhole wanted to save money on MUD, is the most proximate cause of this anyway seems to me.

as for Obama... well... seems to me had he tried to take over more, they'd just be hating on him for "getting in the way of the experts" - there was/is no sure way to fix this, so the first failure would have accrued to him and the government's response. Can't you just imagine the jpeg's of obama wearing a coffer-dam top hat. It would have been good to prevent them from using the dispersant probably (we'll see how that plays out in time, probably it was a terrible mistake) - but if he had... 24x7 blame would have been heaped on him. I don't really think there's much he could have done differently. Should have done differently... yes... but, all the experts would have been pointing to the same actions I'd guess. With the possible exception of the damn corexit.
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby ninakat » Thu May 27, 2010 10:27 pm

justdrew wrote:as for Obama... well... seems to me had he tried to take over more, they'd just be hating on him for "getting in the way of the experts" - there was/is no sure way to fix this, so the first failure would have accrued to him and the government's response. Can't you just imagine the jpeg's of obama wearing a coffer-dam top hat. It would have been good to prevent them from using the dispersant probably (we'll see how that plays out in time, probably it was a terrible mistake) - but if he had... 24x7 blame would have been heaped on him. I don't really think there's much he could have done differently. Should have done differently... yes... but, all the experts would have been pointing to the same actions I'd guess. With the possible exception of the damn corexit.


Take it away James Carville and Mary Matalin, the favorite political odd couple:

James Carville To Obama: Tell BP 'I'm Your Daddy' And Take The Lead In Response

James Carville offered new criticism of the federal response to the BP oil spill Wednesday, and argued President Obama still doesn't get it.

On Tuesday, BP's chairman argued that the oil company was "big and important" to the U.S. An angry Carville took issue with those remarks and told CNN's John King that Obama must lay down the law:

Carville: "BP is not the equal of the United States government. This president needs to tell BP 'I'm your daddy, I'm in charge, you're going to do what we say. You're a multinational company that is greedy and you may be guilty of criminal activity.' It's time that we understand, BP does not wish this thing well. They have been negligent. They need to whip out their checkbook and start moving into action and the president needs to push them."
Carvile told King that he believes President Obama is not being told what the situation is in "a very candid way," but that he's optimistic that a "sea change" will occur after President Obama visits on Friday, the 39th day of the disaster.

Carville's wife, Republican strategist Mary Matalin, appeared with him and agreed that the federal response was not enough.

Carville has been a vocal critic of the federal response.

VIDEO AT LINK
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Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby justdrew » Thu May 27, 2010 10:33 pm

well, I don't know if either of them have much track record of giving good advice.

Fixing oil disaster my responsibility, Obama says
By JENNIFER LOVEN and TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writers Jennifer Loven And Tom Raum, Associated Press Writers Thu May 27, 3:10 pm ET

WASHINGTON – On the defensive more than five weeks into the nation's worst-ever oil spill, President Barack Obama insisted Thursday that his administration, not oil giant BP, was calling the shots in the still-unsuccessful response.

"I take responsibility. It is my job to make sure that everything is done to shut this down," Obama declared at a news conference in the East Room of the White House. The Gulf of Mexico oil spill dominated the hour-long session.

He called the spill an "unprecedented disaster" and blasted a "scandalously close relationship" he said has persisted between Big Oil and government regulators.

Obama announced new steps to deal with the aftermath of the spill, including continuing a moratorium on drilling permits for six months. He also said he was suspending planned exploration drilling off the coasts of Alaska and Virginia and on 33 wells under way in the Gulf of Mexico.

The president's direct language on being in charge of the spill response, which he repeated several times, marked a change in emphasis from earlier administration assertions that, while the government was overseeing the operation, BP had the expertise and equipment to make the decisions on how to stop the flow.

As recently as Monday, the top federal official in charge of dealing with the oil catastrophe, Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen, declined to broadly say the federal government was "in charge." Instead, when asked about that, Allen told reporters that BP was responsible for the cleanup and the government was accountable to make sure the company did it. "I would say it's less a case of 'in charge,'" Allen said when asked about that phrase.

Yet with each passing day, public frustration with Obama's administration has grown, and his poll numbers on the matter are dropping.

Claiming control carries its own political risks for Obama, because any failure to stop the gusher will then belong to the president. But he could suffer politically if his administration is seen as falling short of staying on top of the problem or not working hard to find a solution.

"The American people should know that from the moment this disaster began, the federal government has been in charge of the response effort," Obama said. He was reacting to criticism that his administration has been slow to act and has left BP in charge of plugging the leak.

Obama said many critics failed to realize "this has been our highest priority."

"My job right now is just to make sure everybody in the Gulf understands: This is what I wake up to in the morning, and this is what I go to bed at night thinking about. The spill."

"There shouldn't be any confusion here. The federal government is fully engaged," he said, underscoring his central point.

As he spoke, BP worked furiously to pump mud-like drilling fluid into the blown-out well.

It was an untested procedure but seemed to be working, officials said Thursday, even as new estimates showed the spill has surpassed the Exxon Valdez in Alaska as the worst in U.S. history.

Obama said while the "top kill" procedure being used by BP demonstrated his administration's willingness to try "any reasonable strategy" to stop the gusher, the process "offers no guarantee of success."

Asked about inevitable comparisons between his handling of the disaster with his predecessor's handling of Hurricane Katrina in 2005, Obama said: "I'll leave it to you guys to make those comparisons and make — and make — and make judgments on it, because — because what I'm spending my time thinking about is how do we solve the problem?

"And I'm confident that people are going to look back and say that this administration was on top of what was an unprecedented crisis," he added.

"This has been our highest priority," he said. He conceded that "people are going to be frustrated until it stops."

As an example of the government's hands-on approach, Obama said that BP had wanted to drill a single "relief" well in an effort to eventually stop the leak in several months if all else failed. Instead, the administration insisted on two relief wells being drilled, Obama said.

Over and over, the president sought to counter criticism that the administration was giving too much leeway to BP PLC. "Make no mistake, BP is operating at our direction," he said.

"We will demand that they pay every dime they owe for the damage they've done and the painful losses that they've cost," he said. Still, he acknowledged, "We've got to get it right."

He denounced what he called "the oil industry's cozy and sometimes corrupt" ties with government regulators.

Sen. Frank Lautenberg , D-N.J., a critic of offshore drilling, said Obama had taken an important step to halt the most imminent environmental threat to the Atlantic coast, but he said the danger will remain until there is a permanent ban on drilling in the Atlantic.

"BP's oil catastrophe in the Gulf is a wake-up call for our nation. Giving Big Oil more access to our nation's waters will only lead to more pollution, more lost jobs and more damage to our economy," Lautenberg said.

Obama said the federal government "has acted consistently with a sense of urgency" on the spill. But, he acknowledged a "sense of complacency on the government's part in planning how to deal with the worst-case scenario" before it happened.

He said a cozy relationship between industry and government didn't change when he came into office.

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar "came in and started cleaning house. But the culture had not fully changed at MMS. And surely I take responsibility for that."

But, he added, "there is no evidence some of the corrupt practices that took place earlier took place under the present administration's watch."

He spoke shortly after the head of the troubled agency that oversees offshore drilling, Minerals Management Services Director Elizabeth Birnbaum, resigned under pressure.

"I found out about her resignation today. I don't know the circumstances under which this occurred," Obama said.

A senior administration official said that Salazar had informed the president Wednesday night that he had decided to replace Birnbaum at MMS, after Obama told the interior secretary to make sure that every person under him was capable of doing the job he had. However, Obama was not aware of how the replacement was carried out Thursday morning, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity to describe private conversations.
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justdrew
 
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