Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

[coffin_dodger]

The push toward binary polarity is alive and thriving, as evidenced by this thread.

[MacCruiskeen]

The push toward binary polarity is alive and thriving, as evidenced by this thread.

¿Qué?

[nashvillebrook]

I'd like to know what exactly is the purpose of "provide links" and "provide proof" of Mateen being the shooter. Who are you, MC, exactly? Why should we provide you anything? We're just trying to have a conversation here. I don't see a notification here that says all discourse must pass your wild CT intuitions. So maybe just cool your jets a little and let folks hash it out.

[MacCruiskeen]

I'd like to know what exactly is the purpose of "provide links" and "provide proof" of Mateen being the shooter.Who are you, MC, exactly? Why should we provide you anything? We're just trying to have a conversation here. I don't see a notification here that says all discourse must pass your wild CT intuitions. So maybe just cool your jets a little and let folks hash it out.

It's becoming ever more obvious that TV has damaged people's brains, and quite severely too. (I am not joking.)

[FourthBase]

Mac, are there any terrorist attacks in the world the last 10 or 20 years which you think weren't a PTB setup?

[MacCruiskeen]

I'm no expert on the world's terrorist attacks. The four in the US & UK this century have certainly all been "PTB setups", yes.

The most recent case, San Bernardino, was a particularly clear, simple and brutal set-up: a double murder by police and the subsequent blackening of the couple's name via the corporate media. Not one of the many eyewitnesses ever identified the killers, and no evidence whatsoever was ever produced against either of the posthumously accused, least of all the woman.

[82_28]

Mac, are there any terrorist attacks in the world the last 10 or 20 years which you think weren't a PTB setup?

I don't think it really matters. It's the whole "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" situation. Except lifetime becomes deathtime. We live in a society that whether or not it was a "PTB setup" no matter what happens the PTB (whoever they are) benefits. So I consider it all self same.

But what do I know in my process of growing the fuck up? Just all of this plays into the hands of somebody and it ain't no "us".

[Nordic]

I think it's wise to always question the very base assumptions behind any of these narratives. Because now that we know that they do set these up, and they go lie to us about the most basic facts of these situations, and one of the key things they do is hit us with "facts" right as the news gets out, and the public tends to believe these "first impressions" and never actually question them. For example, "terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into the twin towers which then collapsed due to fires".

So it's a good idea to question the very basis. What we know as facts seem to be that a bunch of people got shot in a crowded nightclub. Beyond that, everything were being told may or may not be true.

To me the fact that the PTB's documented acts such as these always involve a carefully cultivated patsy or patsies, I don't doubt very much that Mateen was involved to some extent either wittingly or unwittingly.

But we should all question the base assumptions. It's silly to claim you "know" much of anything. Either way.

And I shouldn't even have to say this here of all places, but to be skeptical about everything you're being told does not mean that every stupid ignorant unsubstantiated "theory" MUST therefore be true.

But that seems to be how Americans think now. They have built-in strawmen in their cognitive regions now.

And this whole thing could possibly be just a psychosexual mass murder/suicide by a fucked up guy.

[Grizzly]

Missing Orlando Massacre 911 Audio¿ If you can disregard the "Jesus crap" at the end, this becomes very interesting.

[NaturalMystik]

I think it's wise to always question the very base assumptions behind any of these narratives. Because now that we know that they do set these up, and they go lie to us about the most basic facts of these situations, and one of the key things they do is hit us with "facts" right as the news gets out, and the public tends to believe these "first impressions" and never actually question them. For example, "terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into the twin towers which then collapsed due to fires".

So it's a good idea to question the very basis. What we know as facts seem to be that a bunch of people got shot in a crowded nightclub. Beyond that, everything were being told may or may not be true.

A bit of well spoken sanity in a torrent of sillyness...

[Nordic]

Well that's interesting, Grizzly. Thanks for that.

[FourthBase]

Surreal to have flipped to TBS and caught some of this ELeague shit after bearing through some cable news political-grief-porn about Orlando. Apparently I almost saw "history made" as one team was virtual-murdering the shit out of the other, had a 14-1 lead at halftime, almost shut out the other team 16-0 out of a total of 30 rounds. Mateen went 49-1 last week...I'm sure the ED page for Mateen has already been packed with vile shit like that. Just like it was for Breivik, Lanza, Loughner, etc. It's amazing to think that there were moral panics about the dark influence of metal albums, comics, toys...and now we have international 3D-murder-simulation competitions. Not just simulations, trainers. It's amazing that millions of people spend as much time perfecting their murder-simulation skills as pilots do on flying-simulations. It's amazing that it hasn't triggered even more rampages from the tiny fraction of people who play it that happen to be seething with a level of rage just beneath homicidal. A tiny fraction of ten million is, of course, still a fucking lot. And yet, it's just been a couple dozen or so, so far. That we know of. That weren't stopped or self-redirected at the last minute. Perhaps all this time, though, even the most well-adjusted players' potential for/ability at/comfort with mass murdering has been raised from .02% to .04%, or from 2% to 4%...in some "normal" but sick-and-twisted types, maybe 20% to 40%. And in that tiny fraction, something like 60% to 80%...and in maybe a hundred, out of millions (so far), 80-90% to 99%...and in a handful, 100%. And as the graphics and the immersiveness improve, maybe the effect gets incrementally stronger. And so then instead of a hundred, before long it becomes two hundred, three hundred. Who might benefit from that? (Could be multiple disparate factions at once, mind you, the battle only being which side gets to define the narrative.) What turns my gut is if this technology that Americans use to nihilistically entertain themselves could possibly affect the tiny fraction of disaffected Muslim kids who are Americanized enough to be playing these 3D murder sims but who are also susceptible to jihadist propaganda. Any word yet on whether Mateen had ever been a CoD or GTA junkie?

[Nordic]

I'm with you there but why is your gut only turned by Muslim kids and their potential for mad mass murder? Brevik in Norway was the biggest gut-turner yet and he was the personification of Arayan.

[FourthBase]

I'm with you there but why is your gut only turned by Muslim kids and their potential for mad mass murder? Brevik in Norway was the biggest gut-turner yet and he was the personification of Arayan.

Dude, of fucking course my stomach is turned by Brevik's mass murdering terrorism. If you and Mac and whoever else could kindly cease operating as if I am actually some kind of all-Muslim-hating bigot, whatever malicious caricature your brains have finger-painted of me, that'd be great, thanks.

No, half of what would especially turn my gut about it is the sheer sick irony. The other half is that I think the tiny fraction of seething disturbed Muslims which 3D murder sims could possibly nudge over the edge is, while smaller in total, disproportionately way higher because of a combination of extra social isolation, extra anger, and (ahem) whatever extra motivation and resolve jihadists get from Allah.

[stickdog99]

All I want is some actual evidence before I convict another mentally unstable patsy simply because his father practices Islam, and all Muslims are subject to the irresistible siren song of jihad.

All I want is for the most obvious questions to be answered. Hell, all I want is for the somebody, anybody in our corporate media stenography pool to even so much as ask the most obvious questions.

I'm willing to believe anything the evidence tells me, but not on the basis of unnamed sources claiming X was said in some unreleased 911 calls or Y was visible on some unreleased club surveillance videos. Where are the actual WITNESSES who recognized Mateen as the shooter and saw Mateen kill people in cold blood?

Where is the testimony of the off duty policeman who supposedly initially engaged Mateen in a firefight, forcing Mateen to barricade himself in a bathroom? Why couldn't that guy just as easily be the terrorizing shooter? Why can't we hear the 911 calls? Why can't we read the supposed text messages Mateen sent to his wife? Why can't we get a list of and statements from all of the rescued survivors? Why can't we see and hear a media interview of Mateen's wife? Why can't we be apprised the initial ballistic results?

Why do we instead summarily convict Mateen and then jump to speculating about our favorite psychological motive?