'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby freemason9 » Thu May 27, 2010 10:48 pm

Well, it's not Obama's responsibility, though . . . at least, not from the traditional conservative American approach to governance, right? This is the worry of BP; they engaged in risk to make a profit (supposedly, that's capitalism), and sometimes the risk becomes apparent. Like now. So, considering that everyone seems to be crying for less government, I see no reason at all why Obama is even messing with it. Let BP figure it out, let them deal with the litigation, and let them deal with the criminal complaints.

And, by all means, let's change corporate law to make shareholders responsible for their investment outcomes. All BP shareholders should be responsible for compensating damages (based upon their level of investment).

I believe strongly in free markets, but I'm not a capitalist. Capitalism creates fascism and destroys competition and free markets. This disaster is a case in point.
The real issue is that there is extremely low likelihood that the speculations of the untrained, on a topic almost pathologically riddled by dynamic considerations and feedback effects, will offer anything new.
User avatar
freemason9
 
Posts: 1701
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:07 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 82_28 » Thu May 27, 2010 11:02 pm

Well, even if they do let BP handle it -- which I don't believe they should -- the litigation is going to be the most extreme in US history. Who really be paying for this? This is such a conundrum. I mean, even if it were a smaller spill than Valdez, which obviously it is not, this affects exponentially more people and industries than that of Valdez. Valdez was one ship -- it was knowable the amount that it could ultimately spew. This is a motherfucking fiasco. BO should be saying as of today all PB assets have been seized. I understand how fucking complicated this must be and every party is absolutely reeling, but someone with the power needs to step up. That only power as of now is the US government. I simply don't know what they're waiting for. BO's rhetoric and oratory style ain't gonna get him out of this one I don't think.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)


Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby Laodicean » Thu May 27, 2010 11:19 pm

User avatar
Laodicean
 
Posts: 3528
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:39 pm
Blog: View Blog (16)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby operator kos » Thu May 27, 2010 11:40 pm

http://www.eutimes.net/2010/05/toxic-oil-spill-rains-warned-could-destroy-north-america/

Russian Scientists Warn Toxic Oil Spill Rains Could Destroy North America

A dire report prepared for President Medvedev by Russia’s Ministry of Natural Resources is warning today that the British Petroleum (BP) oil and gas leak in the Gulf of Mexico is about to become the worst environmental catastrophe in all of human history threatening the entire eastern half of the North American continent with “total destruction”.

Russian scientists are basing their apocalyptic destruction assessment due to BP’s use of millions of gallons of the chemical dispersal agent known as Corexit 9500 which is being pumped directly into the leak of this wellhead over a mile under the Gulf of Mexico waters and designed, this report says, to keep hidden from the American public the full, and tragic, extent of this leak that is now estimated to be over 2.9 million gallons a day.

The dispersal agent Corexit 9500 is a solvent originally developed by Exxon and now manufactured by the Nalco Holding Company of Naperville, Illinois that is four times more toxic than oil (oil is toxic at 11 ppm (parts per million), Corexit 9500 at only 2.61ppm). In a report written by Anita George-Ares and James R. Clark for Exxon Biomedical Sciences, Inc. titled “Acute Aquatic Toxicity of Three Corexit Products: An Overview” Corexit 9500 was found to be one of the most toxic dispersal agents ever developed. Even worse, according to this report, with higher water temperatures, like those now occurring in the Gulf of Mexico, its toxicity grows.

The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in discovering BP’s use of this dangerous dispersal agent ordered BP to stop using it, but BP refused stating that their only alternative to Corexit 9500 was an even more dangerous dispersal agent known as Sea Brat 4.

The main differences between Corexit 9500 and Sea Brat 4 lie in how long these dangerous chemicals take to degrade into their constituent organic compounds, which for Corexit 9500 is 28 days. Sea Brat 4, on the other hand, degrades into an organic chemical called Nonylphenol that is toxic to aquatic life and can persist in the environment for years.

A greater danger involving Corexit 9500, and as outlined by Russian scientists in this report, is that with its 2.61ppm toxicity level, and when combined with the heating Gulf of Mexico waters, its molecules will be able to “phase transition” from their present liquid to a gaseous state allowing them to be absorbed into clouds and allowing their release as “toxic rain” upon all of Eastern North America.

Even worse, should a Katrina like tropical hurricane form in the Gulf of Mexico while tens of millions of gallons of Corexit 9500 are sitting on, or near, its surface the resulting “toxic rain” falling upon the North American continent could “theoretically” destroy all microbial life to any depth it reaches resulting in an “unimaginable environmental catastrophe” destroying all life forms from the “bottom of the evolutionary chart to the top”.

Note: For molecules of a liquid to evaporate, they must be located near the surface, be moving in the proper direction, and have sufficient kinetic energy to overcome liquid-phase intermolecular forces. Only a small proportion of the molecules meet these criteria, so the rate of evaporation is limited. Since the kinetic energy of a molecule is proportional to its temperature, evaporation proceeds more quickly at higher temperatures.
User avatar
operator kos
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 2012 Countdown » Thu May 27, 2010 11:41 pm

Laodicean wrote:


Yes sir.
George Carlin ~ "Its called 'The American Dream', because you have to be asleep to believe it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
User avatar
2012 Countdown
 
Posts: 2293
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:27 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby Jeff » Thu May 27, 2010 11:58 pm

Russian Scientists Warn Toxic Oil Spill Rains Could Destroy North America


"Sorcha Faal"
User avatar
Jeff
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 8:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby 82_28 » Fri May 28, 2010 12:21 am

Jeff wrote:
Russian Scientists Warn Toxic Oil Spill Rains Could Destroy North America


"Sorcha Faal"


Like this leak, this Sorcha Faal seems to "begin shit" that once fermented takes on a mind of its own and then hits the loop current. People start sending it out, talking about it, linking to it etc. I got no idea because I spend far too much time on the Internet to be a control group sample.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby norton ash » Fri May 28, 2010 12:25 am

Sorcha Fail is an irrresponsible, malicious disinfoteer ghoul.
Zen horse
User avatar
norton ash
 
Posts: 4067
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Canada
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby alwyn » Fri May 28, 2010 12:30 am

Jeff wrote:
Russian Scientists Warn Toxic Oil Spill Rains Could Destroy North America


"Sorcha Faal"


Thanks, Jeff. For a minute, I was going to do something drastic...this is bad enough all on it's own without this kind of muck-raking sensationalism.
question authority?
alwyn
 
Posts: 771
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:25 pm
Location: Laytonville
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby ninakat » Fri May 28, 2010 1:04 am

via Cryptogon:



After BP oil has been found in the marshes of the parish, a frustrated Louisiana Parish President, Billy Nungesser, is interviewed after a press conference at Venice Louisiana on May 23. Nungesser, in responding to questions from Bayoubuzz.com said the U.S. Coast Guard Commandant, Thad Allen, could step up take better control of the oil spill operation which has resulted in oil-affected lands. Nungesser criticized Allen, a top BP official and others. He said something stinks, claimed that they were told to hold that permit up for some reason in referring to an emergency permit to build a barrier. Nungesser also said, its criminal, they ought to go to jail.
User avatar
ninakat
 
Posts: 2904
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:38 pm
Location: "Nothing he's got he really needs."
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby operator kos » Fri May 28, 2010 1:41 am

Jeff wrote:
Russian Scientists Warn Toxic Oil Spill Rains Could Destroy North America


"Sorcha Faal"


Ugh... my sincere apologies. I did not realize that was the original source of this.

That aside, I do believe there could be serious consequences from the chemicals being used. If they do evaporate and then rain down into people's drinking water, that can't be a good thing. I have a very limited faith in the capabilities of standard water treatment plants considering all estrogen/prozac/etc that comes out of my tap.
User avatar
operator kos
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby Nordic » Fri May 28, 2010 1:41 am

freemason9 wrote:Well, it's not Obama's responsibility, though . . . at least, not from the traditional conservative American approach to governance, right? This is the worry of BP; they engaged in risk to make a profit (supposedly, that's capitalism), and sometimes the risk becomes apparent. Like now. So, considering that everyone seems to be crying for less government, I see no reason at all why Obama is even messing with it. Let BP figure it out, let them deal with the litigation, and let them deal with the criminal complaints.

And, by all means, let's change corporate law to make shareholders responsible for their investment outcomes. All BP shareholders should be responsible for compensating damages (based upon their level of investment).

I believe strongly in free markets, but I'm not a capitalist. Capitalism creates fascism and destroys competition and free markets. This disaster is a case in point.


Why the fuck would you think any such thing? This is EXACTLY what governments are FOR.

If a truck wipes out in front of your house and spills a few thousand gallons of toxic chemicals, I guess you'd be just A-OK with waiting around for the trucking company to clean it up.

Nice going, ace.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby justdrew » Fri May 28, 2010 2:24 am

Nordic wrote:
freemason9 wrote:Well, it's not Obama's responsibility, though . . . at least, not from the traditional conservative American approach to governance, right? This is the worry of BP; they engaged in risk to make a profit (supposedly, that's capitalism), and sometimes the risk becomes apparent. Like now. So, considering that everyone seems to be crying for less government, I see no reason at all why Obama is even messing with it. Let BP figure it out, let them deal with the litigation, and let them deal with the criminal complaints.

And, by all means, let's change corporate law to make shareholders responsible for their investment outcomes. All BP shareholders should be responsible for compensating damages (based upon their level of investment).

I believe strongly in free markets, but I'm not a capitalist. Capitalism creates fascism and destroys competition and free markets. This disaster is a case in point.


Why the fuck would you think any such thing? This is EXACTLY what governments are FOR.

If a truck wipes out in front of your house and spills a few thousand gallons of toxic chemicals, I guess you'd be just A-OK with waiting around for the trucking company to clean it up.

Nice going, ace.


I think that was mostly sarcasm. I agree though that in some cases shareholders should be held responsible. the corporate immunity shouldn't extend to calamities like this.

I really don't see why we shouldn't have a single national oil company, all the profits of which accrue to the general fund alleviating the need for some tax.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: 'Not for public': the oil spill may be getting much worse

Postby wintler2 » Fri May 28, 2010 2:44 am

Obama is nuts to take responsibility, he's fallen for the messianic Presidential rhetoric and been stupid about the politics, and should instead be using the opportunity to rewrite limited liability corporation law and making BP start paying out in cash right now.

That said, the day is approaching when nationalising oil companies will be in the interests of capitalism. The risk, cost and consequences of extracting the last of the oil will grow so immense that the entities doing the extracting will need the full cloak of government. We need that oil, if BAU to persist for the privileged.
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

Research question: are all god botherers authoritarians?
User avatar
wintler2
 
Posts: 2884
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:43 am
Location: Inland SE Aus.
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests