The Network of Stolen Consciousness

[nathan28]

Glad you're not committed to the idea, because I would advise not getting committed to any idea that has no real evidence, testimony, or experience to back it up. If you're using the "astral plane" as a metaphor for collective experience, well then, ok.

Besides the fact that I and others have to disagree with you as to the lack of "testimony, or experience", my point was metaphorical as you surmise and I'm in agreement that there's no need to mention an "astral plane" and that doing so is only a distraction--hence my own reluctance to have any discussions in a certain vein.

Then you don't have much of an imagination about these things, and that is good. So, I'll give you a hint. Put a subject in a depro environment, the body goes into hyper awareness. If you wish to torture, overstimulate the body, unexpectedly, and exremely. That is shit, and what I meant by co-opted.

I'll certainly admit to my own naivety on this and many other things. To start a very long list, I'd failed to connect deprivation with its more common deployment (see Gitmo), because I'm interested in the experience of sensory deprivation and have never sat around thinking about how to torture someone with it. It's one thing to put yourself into a Ganzfeld environment, it's another to have someone do that to you through coercion as part of torture or "enhanced interrogation".

[Amethystina]

PS In a waking vision I had back in my 20's, I saw a vast grid that underlaid our reality. And I know a guy, a scientist, who had a very similar one. But neither of us attach any occult baggage to it and we continue to question its meaning and source. Interestingly, he's a survivor of severe childhood abuse too...

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126911.300-our-world-may-be-a-giant-hologram.html

The holograms you find on credit cards and banknotes are etched on two-dimensional plastic films. When light bounces off them, it recreates the appearance of a 3D image. In the 1990s physicists Leonard Susskind and Nobel prizewinner Gerard 't Hooft suggested that the same principle might apply to the universe as a whole. Our everyday experience might itself be a holographic projection of physical processes that take place on a distant, 2D surface.

There seem to be quite a few magical systems that use numbered grids and cyphers, perhaps as a way of interacting directly with the proposed underlying "grid" of reality.

[Username]

~
re: Grids

Link

. . . I hadn't given that lsd trip much thought through the years, before arriving here at RI, and then felt a desire to throw it into the mix of speculation and wonderment.

After the initial shock and awe, I more or less, chalked it up to experience, and labeled it a "bad trip" and maybe psychoanalyzed myself as being too paranoid, and then went on my merry way. But things kept pointing back to the incident.

Let me tell you about one of the subsequent trips that took place a year or two after the one described above, because there was a "perception of reality" in it that relates somewhat to the incident with the gentleman/demon in the car that night.

I started coming onto the acid in my Houston apartment, with friends, and my mind shot up and saw me in a square room, surrounded by square rooms. I got up, opened the door and as I walked out into the courtyard, the view from above shot up into the square structure of the courtyard, and as I walked toward the street, the view expanded again, including the square designs of the streets resembling a road map. I was eager to see what would happen once I reached the main drag, but before that could happen, my friends retrieved me and took me back into the apartment. . . .

[Username]

~
From the same thread linked to above. Re: Beth Goobie

Link

. . . I was talking with a friend about beth goobie and the above encounters with drugs (somehow they seem to relate), and I'd like to share with you what she said to me about it. (She is answering an email; my quotes are in black, her replies in dkblue.)

***


To: Username
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007
Subject: Re: Beth G's articles

Hey Terry,

"the articles from Beth are fantastic pieces. Mind you, I don't know they're true,
but things like this have certainly entered my personal realm of what's possible."

it's helpful to know that what Beth describes has been seen,
experienced, demonstrated and described by both those who have been
within, and without (witnesses) the events, by many people over the
course of human history

much of it has been conveyed through oral traditions and the practices of
traditional sacred sciences; but there are written accounts as well,
and now we have the beginnings of abstract mathematical/geometric
"descriptions" as well

it has been experienced within traditional sacred practices, through certain artistic
disciplines, by individuals (and a few groups) entirely independent of such formal means,
as well as by persons induced and/or forcibly directed, afflicted, into the experience

extremity is certainly a path and a portal, perhaps the oldest and
most common: if extremity is sought/reached voluntarily, as in a
vision quest, there is neither cause for alarm, nor concern for the
validity and true nature and source of the transforming event, for the
event has waited to be asked, has not crossed volition, not violated a
soul's free will in order to intrude itself

employing certain drugs is another way to engage the experience, but
this is dangerous and for the most part ill advised: without housing
the drug's effects in a larger field of sacred shape/form, balance and
"filtration/ordering," there can be no proper exercise of soul
volition: by using the drug one's ego, one's personality, has said
"yes" only to the drug's portal, which will of its nature be "neutral"
and non-differentiating, at best; under the influence, your soul is
disabled from making any further consent or dissent; this is not a
sound approach or practice

if the extremity comes upon one against one's will, then the soul will
decide how willing it is to receive the transforming experience; or
will choose perhaps to pass from this life; or will choose, rather,
assistance from lesser sources: such persons as Viktor Frankl are
famous examples of those who had extremity visited upon them
and chose both transformation and to live on

extremity and drugs are not the only paths/portals: there are also,
among others, dedication, service, communication, certain practices,
love - there are many ways, but all depend upon the soul's
volition/intention, reverence, and humility, for a good outcome

"It's unsettleing to think this type of manipulation to be tradition in
certain circles/families, and at the same time I can see how this
trauma-based MC has managed to influence the general population, built
into the system via child-rearing practices, schools, religions,
movies, etc. We are a fractured, abused, dissociated group of
entranced beings ripe for the picking, so to speak."

well but there it is, the very point and purpose of being human in this world:
to choose reverence; perhaps against all odds, and through long trials,
although not always nor necessarily. One can choose
reverence also through love and joy

whatever can be used for good, in harmony with nature and the cosmos,
in service to divine health and creation, can be inverted and
manipulated to smaller, meaner, foul ends. but, as I said in my little
foray into the discussion of good and evil, those who attempt to harness Creator,
harness Creation, to the morgue cart of their low desire (for power over and control of all Resource), these are not powerful persons at all

if they were, they would need no cruel coercion, no brutal terror, no
artifice nor artificial chemistries to compel service and supply: it
would all be theirs for the wanting

it's not. at all.

these are not powerful persons; but they are dangerous

becos they are desperate, always in total need, and entirely ruthless

so their very stock-in-trade is to deceive others into believing that
they are powerful, very, very powerful, perhaps all-powerful

but they have only the power of death, not life, and must steal the
power of life from Creation, through ... the living

it's a losing game, and they know this, which is why they are
desperately and ruthlessly trying to find some way out of that
inescapable truth, by off loading decay and death onto Creatures
(many, tho not all, human) of Creation/Source that will be kept and
allowed to renew under limits and control (farmed), as a Resource (by
extraction) for their select group, in order that these few might
achieve some form of endless (eternal) Life and ultimate Control

uh, that's the little detail at which they'd rather you didn't look
too closely, lol, cos you might just figure out that ... uh, that
would mean, and does mean, that they're nothing without ... us, their
supposedly powerless victims and potential collaborators, lol

it's we who have the power, the only real power that is endless,
enduring, always capable of renewing: the power of Life and Creation

clearly, to conceal this truth is critical to the interested parties,
and so there is high motivation to usurp and subvert all communication
and schooling of the mind and spirit; but we can choose, we can always
choose, reverence, and eschew the contempt and arrogance and death
dealing that hides behind the deceit

<snip>

of course the dark actors can as easily (often more easily) use our
better nature against us , when our lesser natures do not lead our
hearts; but sooner or later, we do get to choose

we are at once the sleeping princess and the prince: it is our own
kisses that wake us from the entranced slumber, into wakeful love

even those most cruelly, despotically, diabolically, and extremely
"entranced" can, and often, do wake: Beth Goobie is but one of these

anyone can join her

as I like to say, let's not be afraid, shall we

<snip>

[Free]

I re-read Goobie’s articles: The Network of Stolen Consciousness and The Illuminati and the Auric Field and I have to say, the more I read the more irritated and angry I get.

I am so fed up with the truckloads of BS that have been dumped on us by her and other extravagant exaggerators and slick scribes.

Project Willow wrote:
If it were up to me, I wouldn't promulgate it. I agree it's probably not possible to tell whether it's controlled or conscious bad faith, but it is one or the other.

Good point.

And I think we have to get beyond always bending over backwards to determine if the disinfo spouters are doing it consciously and in bad faith. I mean, does it really matter? The important thing is that they are actively spreading this stuff. If they are being used and manipulated, well, then later, if they are in good faith, they should write retractions i.e. explain what happened and how they extricated themselves, and APOLOGIZE TO THE READING PUBLIC.

BTW I rarely, if ever, have seen anyone apologize.

Project Willow wrote:
I'll make another small note here. Civilian science with its FMRI studies of DID and related "disorders" is beginning to approach what military science was working with over 4 generations ago. They are discovering finally that experiences labeled dissociation do not exist upon a scale of quantitative difference, but may be entirely different experiences altogether. To wit, to tap into the stream of time is qualitatively different from accessing the alter who taps into the stream of time.

Re: Dissociated alters having entirely different experiences altogether.

In the two articles by Goobie referenced above, I see her craftily blurring the line between programming grids and “astral plane” and universal grids.

If she is dissociated and programmed, why should she extrapolate any of her observations about grids and the like to the astral plane and the outside world?

Having grids programmed into your inner world through MK torture is one thing, and is something that I have experienced as well. If she were to talk strictly about programming, I wouldn’t have such a problem with what she’s saying, but she uses pseudo-scientific/spiritual hard-to-follow babble to claim that:

“Cults have always used trauma-based programming to force their members to send fragments of consciousness into aligned dimensions.”

and cites Barbara Brennan, Bruce Cathie and other unreliable new agers to lend herself a veneer of authority.

“the Illuminati fragment a child’s consciousness and deliberately send it out of the body into carefully constructed interdimensional structures.”

She confers on the “illuminati” super-advanced, metaphysical powers and knowledge.

Hogwash.

In truth, torturing children is fraught with pitfalls, and they’re lucky if the programming “takes” and the subject remains a functioning human being. Often, they damage or destroy the person who ends up dead or on disability for life.


And that, my friends, is why we’re known as survivors.



* The Illuminati, as far as I’m concerned, is a myth with a history that the perps like to invoke to pump up their image.

[LilyPatToo]

New Age-y babble drives me crazy too, but I know other survivors of systematized abuse who cling to it as a way to handle their pain. In fact, I'm embarrassed to admit that I did it myself for close to 40 years I didn't begin to wake up from my long flight from reality until 2004 and even then, with all I was learning about what had really happened to me, it still took me quite a while to be able to walk away from the comforting, intricate mythology entirely. So when I run into someone who's living within a largely self-assembled New Age religion, I try to remember my own struggle to face very unpleasant facts alone and naked of any sort of supernatural protection (or rhyme or reason) and then I try to be patient with their faith. I don't know that this is what Beth Goobie is doing, but I assumed that it was when I first read her articles about mind control programs several years ago.

I definitely agree that this way of presenting information about programming does nothing to improve our chances of ever being listened to by most of society and that bothers me a lot. But I'm not certain that there's any intent to disinform here at all. And to me intent matters a lot. I'm by no means sure that she's doing any of her writing craftily or with malice aforethought, either. She sounds to me as though she's blurring lines due to the thick lens through which she views her life. Her awareness of being dissociated and programmed may be bearable only when she wreaths it 'round with astral planes and other trappings of Spiritism. She wouldn't be the first survivor to turn to some form of elaborate religion to replace the structure of her life within a program...it's just that most of the other high-profile women victims have chosen Fundamentalist Christianity, not the New Age. But they're more similar than it might seem at first glance--both have their jargon and both allow immersion in a community of fellow True Believers.

My current best guess re: the "Illuminati" is close to the low opinions of them expressed in this thread, but other survivors for whom I have a lot of respect differ with me. And since I have little indication in my life that they were involved in what happened to me, I generally just listen and reflect on what I hear. The survivor who found me was "deprogrammed" by Springmeier and Wheeler and is completely obsessed with the Illuminati, so I've been trying for over 5 years to figure out the truth about that group. The problem is that the self-proclaimed high-profile escapees from their ranks who spread the sensationalized stories about them just don't strike me as very reliable people. OTOH, I know very reliable people who have memories of being taken to palatial estates and of having interacted with richly robed men. Them, I believe.

And I too have a problem accepting that so many celebrities use sex slaves, even though other things that Sue Ford has said ring very true for me, personally--particularly the mind file folders (of which I have a whole "room" full inside my mind) and also the involvement of the Mob. But brochures on night stands pushes my envelope of credulity too--it's just too risky and will be as long as prostitution and slavery are illegal.

Still, that said, my experience in my 20's and early 30's was of being literally owned (as in bought and sold) by a succession of wealthy businessmen, several of whom "loaned me out" and profited from doing so, even if only in the form of favors owed them, rather than directly monetarily. It's possible that some of the assignations involved blackmail, since I was alter-switched and remember almost nothing that happened, but I don't think it was the main focus of how I was used back then. Both Ford and O'Brien have talked about owners (as well as handlers) and that was my experience too, as was apparent courier work in Europe.

My point is that different survivors in different places may have been exploited in very different ways, particularly if they were in government-run programs very early in life and in effect grew up in a succession of them. For instance, there are indications that I was used in radiation experiments, but among the survivors I know personally, only one other person has this in their past. And they have no memories of ever having been bought or sold. No survivors that I know were programmed to commit suicide at 30, even though that's an important part of the sex slave mythology. Until high-level insiders (as in perps or perhaps middle management or support personnel) come forward from a variety of programs and explain exactly what was done to their victims, I have no idea how the disparate stories of survivors can be reconciled and placed into perspective. Everything I have learned points to complexity and diversity, rather than to one simple story for even most of us.

LilyPat

[Cordelia]

I also contemplate questions about 'legitimate' information vs. 'disinformation' and who are the 'Illuminati', survivors, and wonder, too, how can we ever really know? I have a real hard time reading some of the confusing and far-fetched claims by high profile survivors, but I think what LilyPat's written, if I understand her correctly, about differing circumstances among survivors to be very important, and if some of what they say or write is outlandish, they may be, after all, just the messengers, and messengers not in charge of their own lives. I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all. Much as I don't like, really don't like, New-Age jargon, I can understand, maybe begrudgingly, why some people seek to join, if they haven't been led into, an 'alternative' religion or community and once there, absorb and spout the propaganda.

Some thoughts I have to add to the mix because I'm reminded of a close co-worker at a center where I worked on-and-off for years. She suffered from a life-threatening disease, and had joined, really, turned her life over, to the center, which was more a cult. She was 100% dedicated to them, lived on the campus, studied all the teachings and doctrines, 'practiced' the principles and fluently spoke the 'language'. I participated very little in the group's activities; in fact, I worked on condition that I not be required to, but she and I became friends and sometimes got together outside the office. She was a talented artist, kind and seemed very vulnerable, but she could also suddenly turn, and with so much vehemence, working with her was like navigating a mine field. In retrospect, I think she might have been DID, because she'd have no recollection of what she'd said during a rage. I quit (the first time), because I couldn't work with her unpredictability and for a long time I was very angry and contemptuous of her dedication to the organization (I called her 'the nun'), but now I feel mostly compassion. I think that by initially joining the group,she may have been trying to save her life, but she was also used, really badly, especially by the founders, and one who was particularly sadistic. Though at the same time, at least during the time I was there, her health had stabilized. I think one reason we were drawn to each another was because, had we been conscious, we might have found similarities in our history. I sometimes think about her and wonder how she is.

About the 'Illuminati', my understanding is that of old, aristocratic and royal bloodlines that engineer, orchestrate and control societies. Historically powerful families, whose members are prominent in politics, banking, medicine, law, education, entertainment, etc... I read an article in a major state newspaper, that its ultra rich, multi-term senator, a member of several exclusive societies, clubs and councils, was distantly related to another very rich, multi-term, powerful senator, his contemporary, who also participated in some of the same, and other, organizations (not addressed in the newspaper article, of course). I read elsewhere that one of these senators is also related to a former U.S. president, but I don't know if they both are. (Burke's Peerage http://www.burkespeerage.com/ traces the lineage of most American Presidents to European royalty. I'd be fascinated to learn more from Burke's but it costs to join, which I can't afford.) It wouldn't be surprising to learn that there are many other distant, and not-so distant bloodlines that intersect between politicians, major media and entertainment moguls, etc....... In horse breeding, pedigree is meticulously researched for validation and documentation and the same attention to detail of ancestry and breeding surely extends to people of the 1% upper, upper class.

I once worked as the bean counter for a millionaire couple's offshore interests. They were both descended from old money; coincidently, distantly related, fraternally, to one of the above senators. Their daughter shared his first name. (In addition to generational suffixes, there's a strange custom, at least of old moneyed families for parents to give their children, as first names, the last names of their ancestors. And it doesn't matter if it's a really odd name, or even a name generally given to the other sex. Most likely an ancient tradition to establish a thread of identification of family members through the generations.) The trajectories their kids' lives were expected to follow were carefully laid out, probably before they were born: their friends, interests, private schools, universities, careers, etc......a very structured and not exactly enviable life, I discovered. Though the money would be nice.

[Free]

Lilipat2 wrote:
New Age-y babble drives me crazy too, but I know other survivors of systematized abuse who cling to it as a way to handle their pain. In fact, I'm embarrassed to admit that I did it myself for close to 40 years.

I was also involved with the New Age. Going through it taught me a lot, mostly about discernment. I’m not embarrassed about it because I feel that I, like many others, was attracted to it because I sought a spirituality that was independent and genuine.

Like yourself though, I became disenchanted (disgusted really), due to the rampant manipulation and commercialization.

I’ve also studied and practiced qigong for over 20 years, therefore I feel I know something about life force energy, which is the subject of Goobie’s articles about energy grids and ' Illuminati or Annunaki' energy vampirism.

LiliPat2 wrote:
I didn't begin to wake up from my long flight from reality until 2004 and even then, with all I was learning about what had really happened to me, it still took me quite a while to be able to walk away from the comforting, intricate mythology entirely. So when I run into someone who's living within a largely self-assembled New Age religion, I try to remember my own struggle to face very unpleasant facts alone and naked of any sort of supernatural protection (or rhyme or reason) and then I try to be patient with their faith. I don't know that this is what Beth Goobie is doing, but I assumed that it was when I first read her articles about mind control programs several years ago.

Yes, but did you write pseudo-scientific articles for magazines in which you tried to convince the public that the people who abused you have extraordinarily sophisticated metaphysical powers?

Conversing with friends in your living room about your struggle to put together the puzzle pieces of your dissociated past is very different than publicly positioning yourself with a disinformation alliance, doing your best to set yourself up as an authority, then pumping out articles that mislead people and muddy the waters.

LiliPat2 wrote:
And I too have a problem accepting that so many celebrities use sex slaves, even though other things that Sue Ford has said ring very true for me, personally--particularly the mind file folders (of which I have a whole "room" full inside my mind) and also the involvement of the Mob. But brochures on night stands pushes my envelope of credulity too--it's just too risky and will be as long as prostitution and slavery are illegal.

Many things, that Sue Ford, Beth Goobie and the other high profile survivors have said ring true for me as well. It’s diabolical what they’re doing, because they’re survivors like us, and they say a lot of true things, but they mix them with distortions, exaggerations, triggers, bizarre pornographic tidbits, etc. It really pisses me off.

LiliPat2 wrote:
Still, that said, my experience in my 20's and early 30's was of being literally owned (as in bought and sold) by a succession of wealthy businessmen, several of whom "loaned me out" and profited from doing so, even if only in the form of favors owed them, rather than directly monetarily. It's possible that some of the assignations involved blackmail, since I was alter-switched and remember almost nothing that happened, but I don't think it was the main focus of how I was used back then. Both Ford and O'Brien have talked about owners (as well as handlers) and that was my experience too, as was apparent courier work in Europe.

I never said, nor do I believe that sex slaves don't exist. The main thing I was taking issue with in my last post was Goobie’s claim that the ‘illuminati’ are setting up elaborate energy-stealing apparatuses on the astral plane.

Lilipat2 wrote:
My point is that different survivors in different places may have been exploited in very different ways, particularly if they were in government-run programs very early in life and in effect grew up in a succession of them. For instance, there are indications that I was used in radiation experiments, but among the survivors I know personally, only one other person has this in their past. And they have no memories of ever having been bought or sold. No survivors that I know were programmed to commit suicide at 30, even though that's an important part of the sex slave mythology. Until high-level insiders (as in perps or perhaps middle management or support personnel) come forward from a variety of programs and explain exactly what was done to their victims, I have no idea how the disparate stories of survivors can be reconciled and placed into perspective. Everything I have learned points to complexity and diversity, rather than to one simple story for even most of us.

I am so angry that you were used in radiation experiments, and so sorry, Lilipat. This is why I get irritated with people like Beth Goobie. Here you are trying to figure out what happened to you, find support, heal and help others, and here she is sitting at her desk, crafting toxic articles that f**k with peoples heads. I’m sorry but I find it inexcusable. We are talking about atrocities and human rights violations. This is not a respectful way to approach MK Ultra abuses.

[justdrew]

I just came across this letter again from an old magazine... May 2007 issue Fortean Times, "It happened to me" letters section...
Given what was said about Montreal this may be of interest.

Years ago when I was in my senior years of secondary school, there was a series of odd happenings that I have never been able to explain to my satisfaction. I would meet someone for the first time at school, and usually like the person, who would be about my size and height and age, and be interested in many of the same things I am interested in. Some time would pass and I would re-encounter the person - with the same name - who would then be taller, larger and older, and apparently just that bit much more of an ass than the original person I had met.
I had considered it was someone's idea of a joke, using an older brother or sister, but in retrospect it really doesn't wash that someone would "replace" another in his or her day-today life at school. There were really marked differences in several examples of this - yet there was never an attempt to "come clean" by anyone apparently involved. I postulate some kind of odd "operation" to discredit the aforementioned individuals, or were alien abductions taking place?
Ramona S.
Montreal, Canada

[LilyPatToo]

justdrew, that's a fascinating find Wish Ramona S. was posting here, since the only other time travel-linked stories out there right now (that I know of) unfortunately center around Andrew Basiago (also see this thread). But to get the full and unmistakable whiff of disinfo-stench, you have to read this one on his alliance with the self-proclaimed (and NewAgeRyhmesWithSewage shameless self-promoter) the "great granddaughter of Ike" Which is a real bummer for me, since I have first-hand knowledge that time is not what we think it is and that it's possible to move in it, though I've only moved a few minutes forward myself and come back with information. I want to find out WTF was being done in that field in the 40's through 70's in the worst way, but the few "whistleblowers' who've surfaced have all sounded to me like self-promoting, intel-connected narcissists with delusions of grandeur--think that Bielek guy who wove such a Byzantine sci-fi tale around the Philadelphia Experiment, for an example. Or the one who went on and on about surviving a mind control/time travel experiment that used naked teenage boys in a special chair--?--sorry, my mind is (thankfully!) blank on his name, but I think Montauk was the location. All of which suggests (to me at least) that there really were time-related experiments being run that have required damage control releases of disinformation to cover up.

Free, re: Beth Goobie's beliefs--she's not the first mind control program survivor I've run into who's completely submerged herself in W.O.O. and gone on to talk about it far and wide on the internet. The woman who found and woke me up had an unshakable belief in all sorts of very similar stuff and her mythology centered on the Illuminati/the Cult too. It amounted to an obsession, in fact, one that ended our personal interaction back in the spring of 2005. Other survivors I've known well had similar fixations on all-powerful perps, some of whom were non-human--either standard extraterrestrials or more exotic Archons or demonic entities. I'm not sure whether there's any truth in these belief systems at all, but they sure are useful to the perps who can count on such a person to completely invalidate themselves and all other survivors. And of course they keep the survivor so fixated upon the W.O.O. that they tend to reject Real World mind control programs as the source of their abuse. So I deplore the message, but try not to shoot the messenger, since I suspect they're programmed to do what they're doing.

For every survivor like us here at RI, who's determined to stay reality-based, there seem to be a couple elsewhere in the fringe spouting wild, sexy disinfo. It's very discouraging, since we're in total agreement that:

We are talking about atrocities and human rights violations. This is not a respectful way to approach MK Ultra abuses.

When I've approached human rights activists working in the area of slavery, I've been completely ignored as soon as they found out I wasn't talking about 3rd world human trafficking. And as long as other survivors of the MC programs get the attention of the public with their wild and W.O.O.ly claims, we'll go on being marginalized, I'm afraid. When it comes to psychic stuff, the baby goes sailing out the window with the bathwater almost every time, thanks to the disbelief of people who've never had that kind of experience and to the skillful work of disinfo pros who've known for at least 60+ years how to get us automatically lumped in with frothing-at-the-mouth True Believers. I know my despair and anger at the damage they're unwittingly doing to our cause angers them, but the more I see of the fall-out, the more upset I get. I used to wonder if most of the loudest voices weren't witting disinfo agents, but I'm beginning to wonder if they aren't just expert programming + Denial in action?

LilyPat

[justdrew]

It hadn't occurred to me that Ramona S.'s report could have anything to do with time travel. It just sounded to me like some group, with connivance of some school officials, was "laundering" kids.

Let me think about this time travel thing, maybe some dots will connect. My first thought would be that perhaps there's a strong ability for a person to alter their perception of the passage of time, like how an hour can sometimes seem like 10 minutes or vice-verse and that this could be trained/conditioned to some "useful" end. If someone could do an hours worth of thinking in 10 minutes, that seems like it could be a goal. The other method might involve "sharing" one's own future mind and awareness with one's present self.

[Howling Rainbows]

Let me think about this time travel thing, maybe some dots will connect. My first thought would be that perhaps there's a strong ability for a person to alter their perception of the passage of time, like how an hour can sometimes seem like 10 minutes or vice-verse and that this could be trained/conditioned to some "useful" end. If someone could do an hours worth of thinking in 10 minutes, that seems like it could be a goal. The other method might involve "sharing" one's own future mind and awareness with one's present self.



Trauma can produce those sensations. When the body and mind are exposed to severe trauma the body can produce hallucinatory substances. Six hours can go by and seem like it was ten minutes and produce that "missing time" effect.

[justdrew]

if truth ever leaks out through fiction (either by knowing or by some more subtle process)...

I've never actually read this, and wasn't aware of even what it was about as far as I knew, but this came to mind and upon reading the description... perhaps relevant...

The Cat Who Walks Through Walls

---

Trauma can produce those sensations. When the body and mind are exposed to severe trauma the body can produce hallucinatory substances. Six hours can go by and seem like it was ten minutes and produce that "missing time" effect.

this may be down to the brain stopping short term memory storage, and it might be helped along by drugs such as Propranolol.

[LilyPatToo]

Actually, Howling Rainbows, what's referred to as "missing time" in mind control program survivors isn't usually due to time-perception-bending brain chemistry. it's due to another personality taking over for a while without sharing consciousness with the personality that's usually "in front." Anywhere from a few seconds to hours or even longer can seem to the front personality to have vanished. They often have no memories at all of what they may have done or where they went--it's gut-level terrifying. Each time it's happened to me, I've jumped every time anyone knocked at the door for weeks afterward, scared to death it's the police and I'll find out I did something illegal.

justdrew, I have an alter who experiences time very differently than I do--for her it passes with extreme slowness, which is a plus, since she surfaces when we're in immediate physical danger. The times I've stayed co-conscious with her, she's used the time to plan her strategy. It also feels really cold when she's out--as though the air temperature has dropped 20-30 degrees--not sure what that's about. I'm pretty sure she started out as a programmed alter, since she's never once surfaced when anyone connected to the program was abusive. She's sort of like an automated car alarm that only goes off if the person entering the car doesn't know how to disarm it. And it serves the same purpose, I guess--protects the merchandise.

To me, Ramona S's encounters with what appeared to be the same people at very different ages suggested either time travel experiments or mysterious mindfuckery on a level that's difficult to figure out without a lot more information. If she'd just caught a glimpse of a child trafficking group in action, why distract her with something as odd as people seeming to age impossibly quickly? Seems like an unlikely choice of methods to deal with a witness...the people who do this stuff are risking long terms in federal prison and, from what I've read, would be pretty ruthless about silencing a possible witness against themselves.

It's not unusual for someone who's being tampered with in a mind control program to put the high strangeness in their lives down to "alien abduction" as Ramona did. Especially since some survivors have gotten beneath those memories and discovered human intelligence agents or program doctors messing with them. But until I read Kathleen Sullivan's bio (she's a survivor who publicly corrected her story once she got down to what had really happened to her) and one of Mauri's articles (where she was forced to dress up as a "grey" alien as a skinny little girl growing up in a cult family) that I understood the deception. Until then I believed I was an alien abductee, since there'd been so much High Strangeness and missing time in my life. I'd love to get word to Ramona to read about the UFO/alien promoting part of the mind control programs and then see if she re-evaluates her experience at all.

LilyPat

[DeltaDawn]

justdrew, true, propranolol may help with some symptoms but truly???.....it only slows heart beat and helps with blood pressure. And here lately??? still need something else to control blood pressure, am very experienced w/propranolol...been on it for 20 yrs for mitral valve prolapse. Trauma is not miraculously cured w/any drug like propranolol or any other 'new' breaking news drug.

Long term trauma/ptsd is not cured by slowing down your heart rate or easing your ability to breath.....there is no miracle cure.....it takes diligence, research, therapy (whatever works for u), and prayer to get over true 'missing time'.....just another ball game if u ask me!! Sure wish there was a pill that would make all this seem 'normal'....sigh