Democratic Underground in a nutshell

[Jeff]

...and just to add my thoughts on the terminology issue, I take (as most everyone else I would think), that the 'official story' means simply that, the official story as told in the 9/11 Commission report. That is literally the official US government story, is it not?

But everyone's 9/11 narrative will find some points of concurrence with that account, so I don't see the virtue of "Official Story" as a rhetorical device. So what, precisely, are the components of the story with which, if we agree, it can be said that we're endorsing the "Official Story"? I am, to someone who believes exotic weapons were used to bring down the towers, or a missile hit the Pentagon, or CD is beyond dispute.

I can't give a meaningful answer to Do you believe the Official Story? before I know your story.

[MacCruiskeen]

Oh jesus, Jeff, this is simply ridiculous now. You are taking the piss.

[MacCruiskeen]

I don't see the virtue of "Official Story" as a rhetorical device.

It is not a rhetorical device; it is a name.

So please produce a better name than "official account" for the confused and incoherent official account, or else accept that people are entitled to call that confused and incoherent official account "the official account", especially when they don't have an endless amount of time at their disposal.

And then please accept that different people will accept or reject different parts of that official account, depending (for example) on: 1) who they are, 2) how brave they are 3) how much they know, 4) how much they care, 5) how much they have to lose, 6) who employs them, 7) how good they are at thinking, and 8 ) what motivates them. This is an entirely unremarkable fact in itself, and not worth wasting time on. It's the way of the world.

[8bitagent]

I literally have 9/11 truthers call me every name in the book because I believe there were 19 hijackers(whether they got on the plane is a different matter) and that al Qaeda was intimately involved. In their narrow Alex Jones/Loose Change view, such a view is heresy.

And it's sad, there was a time PrisonPlanet and 9/11 Truth sights were focusing on the real provable ins and outs of 9/11.

Now, why is it that the left/right who hate 9/11 Truth and the 9/11 truthers chose to do battle over carefully parroted memes?(melting points, pentagon diameter holes, "hijackers alive", etc)

[Jeff]

So please produce a better name than "official account" for the confused and incoherent official account, or else accept that people are entitled to call that confused and incoherent official account "the official account", especially when they don't have an endless amount of time at their disposal.

Haven't I been clear? Call it what you like. But you have to know that there is considerable variance about the sine qua nons of the "Official Story." Again, I accept Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. To many Truthers, that means I believe a false narrative. So I can't meaningfully answer Do you believe the Official Story? until I know the salient points of their story.

[2012 Countdown]

...and just to add my thoughts on the terminology issue, I take (as most everyone else I would think), that the 'official story' means simply that, the official story as told in the 9/11 Commission report. That is literally the official US government story, is it not?

But everyone's 9/11 narrative will find some points of concurrence with that account, so I don't see the virtue of "Official Story" as a rhetorical device. So what, precisely, are the components of the story with which, if we agree, it can be said that we're endorsing the "Official Story"? I am, to someone who believes exotic weapons were used to bring down the towers, or a missile hit the Pentagon, or CD is beyond dispute.

I can't give a meaningful answer to Do you believe the Official Story? before I know your story.

I just don't see it that way at all. I think that may be over-thinking an unnecessarily nuanced response. Whether points of deviation to the 'official' story may/may not be agreed upon by you, or me or others, the basic fact is that we DO agree that the 9/11 Commission report is not true, bunk, deceptive, misleading, bogus, not true...assuming one believes that ultimately there is no such thing as a half-truth...or is but a lie by another name.

I'll answer this one for you then. Based on what you've written, you do NOT believe in the 'official' story. See, its just that easy, really. Nothing more, but certainly nothing less.

[8bitagent]

Sort of Offtopic, its so funny...on StormFront and other Nazi forums and sites they absolutely eat up everything posted by Alex Jones and Prisonplanet, about 9/11...martial law, etc.

But in their twisted minds, they twist it to mean that the rulers are Jews who will go after whites. They dont realize that the elite hates everyone, and that many neo Nazi leaders and incidents are FBI provocatuered, which Alex Jones has exposed. So funny.

Anyways, I guess the only thing we can agree on is that two towers fell and lots of people died.

[2012 Countdown]

So please produce a better name than "official account" for the confused and incoherent official account, or else accept that people are entitled to call that confused and incoherent official account "the official account", especially when they don't have an endless amount of time at their disposal.

Haven't I been clear? Call it what you like. But you have to know that there is considerable variance about the sine qua nons of the "Official Story." Again, I accept Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. To many Truthers, that means I believe a false narrative. So I can't meaningfully answer Do you believe the Official Story? until I know the salient points of their story.

We are all just trying piece together a puzzle without the benefit of seeing what it actually is beforehand. I think it would be safe to say we who question the official story, believe the figures shown to us by the government do NOT add up, and in fact are very misleading. Those who would give others (you or 8bit for example) grief over not being convinced of this or that aspect (particulars in which you've both have noted) are zealots, the fringe. I do not know if controlled demo was employed. Building 7's story and its collapse seems fishy though... but I am no expert. The plane switching seems a hard one to buy as well. Remote controlled flights? Seems 'out there', but will not dismiss. The 9/11 war games are a big deal to me... NORAD stand down stinks to the core. There are a vast array of 'theories' out there being offered. Some are stupid, some not. However, they are born of a desire to compensate for the lack of a coherent , honest account. I say do not let the fringe dictate the debate. I can see though how you might use the objection to the term as a premise/device to differentiate yourself from those types, but it is merely a tactical device as I see it.

[stickdog99]

I literally have 9/11 truthers call me every name in the book because I believe there were 19 hijackers(whether they got on the plane is a different matter) and that al Qaeda was intimately involved. In their narrow Alex Jones/Loose Change view, such a view is heresy.

And it's sad, there was a time PrisonPlanet and 9/11 Truth sights were focusing on the real provable ins and outs of 9/11.

Now, why is it that the left/right who hate 9/11 Truth and the 9/11 truthers chose to do battle over carefully parroted memes?(melting points, pentagon diameter holes, "hijackers alive", etc)

Let me hazard a guess. For the same reason that the lead administrator of DU calls himself Skinner?

[stickdog99]

So please produce a better name than "official account" for the confused and incoherent official account, or else accept that people are entitled to call that confused and incoherent official account "the official account", especially when they don't have an endless amount of time at their disposal.

Haven't I been clear? Call it what you like. But you have to know that there is considerable variance about the sine qua nons of the "Official Story." Again, I accept Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. To many Truthers, that means I believe a false narrative. So I can't meaningfully answer Do you believe the Official Story? until I know the salient points of their story.

Talk about missing the forest for the trees. Not believing the OCT doesn't mean that your body has been taken over by the pod people. All it means is that you don't believe the OCT: Osama & the 19 did it with no outside help and incompetence fully explains their amazing success.

[2012 Countdown]

Sort of Offtopic, its so funny...on StormFront and other Nazi forums and sites they absolutely eat up everything posted by Alex Jones and Prisonplanet, about 9/11...martial law, etc.

But in their twisted minds, they twist it to mean that the rulers are Jews who will go after whites. They dont realize that the elite hates everyone, and that many neo Nazi leaders and incidents are FBI provocatuered, which Alex Jones has exposed. So funny.

Those people are numbskulls. I listen to Jones on occasion. That isn't what he says at all. He admonishes those very people who advance that nonsense. Every time I happen to listen it seems. He constantly says he gets hate mail calling him a zionist/papal/fillintheblank agent/stooge because he DOESN"T say its the 'this or that' group, and always talks of the global elite that control these groups and events to pit us against one another.

Disclamer: I'm not a Jones 'follower' by any means, but I do think he brings up some good stuff you will not hear about anywhere else. He's a bit paranoid at times, but I believe his heart is in the right place, if that means anything. Incidentally, he called the missle/pentagon theory a 'honeypot' and has stayed away from that theory. He has some great guests on too. Its an interesting show in my opinion.

[8bitagent]

Sort of Offtopic, its so funny...on StormFront and other Nazi forums and sites they absolutely eat up everything posted by Alex Jones and Prisonplanet, about 9/11...martial law, etc.

But in their twisted minds, they twist it to mean that the rulers are Jews who will go after whites. They dont realize that the elite hates everyone, and that many neo Nazi leaders and incidents are FBI provocatuered, which Alex Jones has exposed. So funny.

Those people are numbskulls. I listen to Jones on occasion. That isn't what he says at all. He admonishes those very people who advance that nonsense. Every time I happen to listen it seems. He constantly says he gets hate mail calling him a zionist/papal/fillintheblank agent/stooge because he DOESN"T say its the 'this or that' group, and always talks of the global elite that control these groups and events to pit us against one another.

Disclamer: I'm not a Jones 'follower' by any means, but I do think he brings up some good stuff you will not hear about anywhere else. He's a bit paranoid at times, but I believe his heart is in the right place, if that means anything. Incidentally, he called the missle/pentagon theory a 'honeypot' and has stayed away from that theory. He has some great guests on too. Its an interesting show in my opinion.

Oh hey, Im a big Alex Jones fan. I don't mind admitting that. He goes out of his way to make fun of neo Nazis, calling them pawns. He is always getting called a Zionist because he doesn't obsess over them. He sees Israel is a puppet, not a puppet master.

There's always been a tendency in far right racist circles to latch onto global conspiracies, but that's the trick. Hitler used it, banking on the Protocols hoax. But if you were to replace "Jews" in Protocols with "European occult elite and American military Pentagon CIA globalists"
it would be seen more as revelation of the method.

Thats why hate groups love of Alex Jone's site doesnt make sense: He's always been talking about racial eugenic Nazi types ruling over people, and using fear to divide and conquer. The neo Nazis somehow missed the memo. The "Jews" did 9/11 is a globalist meme, but that of course doesn't absolve the very real possible involvement of Israel in the attacks.

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

So what, precisely, are the components of the story with which, if we agree, it can be said that we're endorsing the "Official Story"?

Which officials officiate the official story? The gubmint. And their mainstream shills.
That Official Story.

I am, to someone who believes exotic weapons were used to bring down the towers, or a missile hit the Pentagon, or CD is beyond dispute.

I don't know how to explain a bright guy like you not seeing/comprehending the physical proof of controlled demolition so well laid out at Richard Gage's website. No explanation.

A 10 year-old could understand that a quarter mile of steel and concrete can't come down like that without being blown up leaving a wide radial field of debris.

Jeff Wells as a 10 year-old-


(Sorry Jeff. I just found the photo and I love it. It may have legs.)

[IanEye]

People, people, can we get back to the OP?

leftofthedial (1000+ posts)
Tue May-06-08 12:08 AM
Original message:

Read about your band in some local page
Didn't mention your name, didn't mention your name
Sweet Georgia breezes, safe, cool and warm
I headed up north, you headed north

On and on and on and on
What side are you on?
On and on and on and on
What side are you on?

Weary voice that's laughin', on the radio once
We sounded drunk, never made it on
Passin' through and it's late, the station started to fade
Picked another one up in the very next state

On and on and on and on
What side are you on?
On and on and on and on and...

Pretty girl keep growin' up, playin' make-up, wearin' guitar
Growin' old in a bar, ya grow old in a bar
Headed out to San Francisco, definitely not L.A.
Didn't mention your name, didn't mention your name

And if I don't see ya, in a long, long while
I'll try to find you
Left of the dial