Un-PC Men Are Attacked By Bitches for No Reason.

[posting tulpa]

Posting Tulpa -- Hello, my man! I've been waiting for you. And, seriously, that is intended as a gesture of good will and good faith. I'm not interested in being right. I don't like power. I just want justice. For all.

Right back at ya. looking forward to the new thread. I can't say anything other than GM and Nathan have stated much more eloquently than that which I could have...and that even speaks way back to our other conversation, because my exact points were echoed, but again, more clearly stated, than I could muster.

I happen to take personal offense to many of the racial and gender specific discourses that occur here, and while many other classes enjoy a designated off limits shielding from Mods (see Jeff's ADC referenced post earlier along with admonition) white. men. do not and therefore are targets by omission.

I have seen more black comedians stereotype white guys as dorky, frat-boy, surfer dude, etc than I have white comedians make black jokes. But that's ok, right?

(I swear I heard some one in the back say "Its true though!" under their breath)

Anyway all I want to say is:

I am all for justice, in fact you can go first in line!!!
Just don't trample mine on your way up there. I have no need to be right, but am compelled to point out when someone is wrong, but at least I am in good company. I usually LEARN for the most part here, and I offend anyone its usually only in playing devil's advocate. I apologize for my crude two lettered reply but had typed on a reply for 20 minutes and then had a power failure. I wasn't about to go into the whole diatribe again, ineffectual as it has been in the past.

[IanEye]

I am all for justice, in fact you can go first in line!!!
_ _ _

I apologize for my crude two lettered reply but had typed on a reply for 20 minutes and then had a power failure. I wasn't about to go into the whole diatribe again, ineffectual as it has been in the past.

when it matters, i always try to type out a response in a text editor, save, and then cut and paste it into an actual response on a thread. if you are living so close to the bone that you can't manage this, you should say so.

People Will help you out, so says "We The People".

otherwise, Fascism will have won. Thanks, Ian.

[Truth4Youth]

I am all for justice, in fact you can go first in line!!!

"
I often wonder why women would want to be "first in line." I mean right now the white male is "first in line" and look what he is- selfish, arrogant, greedy, power-obsessed, cold, piggish, and egotistical. In other words white males are pigs, and the reason is probably because we're "first in line."

I wish more women would realize that they don't have to try to be "equal" to us because honestly they are already better than us as it is. It's like Tim Leary said:

Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition.

[GM Citizen]

Like I said, women who rise above through their strength and independance are admirable. I feel however, that viewing them as strong is usually a way to abdicate our own responsibility as men for the conditions that exist for women.

The more you view men as responsible for the conditions that exist for women (if you're still going on about this patriarchy thing), the less willing you are to cede acknowledgement to the individual woman for her achievements, because if conditions are bad (as you believe?) then men held her down/back (she is a victim..wow), and if conditions were good, then men allowed her success (once again a victim, albeit of manipulation).

Really now, when do you PC types ever give the woman credit for what she has done, and stop viewing her as a current product of the stone age? How about if she did it, it's her responsibility. Successful? Yup, she did it. Failure, well, yeah, she did that too. Is that so hard to see a female as fully in power of her choices, and responsible for her actions?

A question here: what exactly is patriarchy to you guys? I just don't get it. Are you guys like some Dworkinesque Haley Joel Osment in Sixth Sense, but that you guys see dicks everywhere, and this skews your view on just about everything?

[Occult Means Hidden]

Hi GM, according to this quote, you equate legal false statements with the crime of rape:

...From what I recall reading about some cases in the US, where a woman was found to have made a false rape claim, the worst she might face is a misdemeanour charge. The guy could have been locked up, beaten, even raped, for many long years. She might get 6 months, and often with a recommendation that she get mental help. Hardly fair, really."

I think the mere fact that you are equating the two as somehow similar and should be deserving of the same punishment, shows a need for you to reevaluate your positions. I think your statment shows that you are really not fully aware of how much of a crime the act of rape is. I'd like to see you admit this, otherwise I have a hard time reading your posts seriously. Also, i can easily imagine the same possible 6months with reference for psychiatric help, if a man was found to false charge another man of the same. Wouldn't you?

[barracuda]

A question here: what exactly is patriarchy to you guys? I just don't get it. Are you guys like some Dworkinesque Haley Joel Osment in Sixth Sense, but that you guys see dicks everywhere, and this skews your view on just about everything?

You are still cracking me up. "You guys." "Dicks everywhere." It ain't rocket science here. I guess the reason we have had so few women in the US congress is because the women are just failures. Great! I guess I sure got set straight there. Yeesh.

Have you noticed this whole thread has now devolved to a conversation amongst men?

[GM Citizen]

Hi GM, according to this quote, you equate legal false statements with the crime of rape:

...From what I recall reading about some cases in the US, where a woman was found to have made a false rape claim, the worst she might face is a misdemeanour charge. The guy could have been locked up, beaten, even raped, for many long years. She might get 6 months, and often with a recommendation that she get mental help. Hardly fair, really."

I think the mere fact that you are equating the two as somehow similar and should be deserving of the same punishment, shows a need for you to reevaluate your positions. I think your statment shows that you are really not fully aware of how much of a crime the act of rape is. I'd like to see you admit this, otherwise I have a hard time reading your posts seriously. Also, i can easily imagine the same possible 6months with reference for psychiatric help, if a man was found to false charge another man of the same. Wouldn't you?

Not equating the two points at all, other than to point out the obvious...they are 2 sides of the same issue. It is very easy to follow:

Basic hypothetical premise - guy did not rape her, but she makes a false charge...worst case scenario for the guy

1) Guys life is fucked up major. At the very least, his name and pic appear all over the media. He is guilty in just about everyone's eyes, because, after all, police don't make mistakes, right? And why would a woman lie about something so serious as rape? (note sarcasm).

2) The justice system is not on his side, especially so if he is poor. He may spend months (years?) in jail waiting for his case.

3) If the guy gets convicted, he goes to jail. No, he goes to prison, where he is just about second from the bottom of the food chain, child molestors being the lowest.

4) He stands a good chance of being beaten by guards, and being beaten and raped by inmates.

5) If he ever gets out alive, he is branded forever in ways I cannot even imagine

All of that could happen....and likely has....and he did not commit a crime at all.

Now let's look at her side...worst case scenario

1) For whatever motivation she has, she concocted a false charge

2) Her charge is determined to be false either during the investigation

3) If the DA decides to charge her with anything (from some of what I have read), a misdemeanour, I believe the sentence for the charge is 6 months MAX, dependent upon jurisdiction. The max sentence is rarely meted out, and I do believe professional mental help may be necessary.

So in answer to your first question, when I stated "Hardly fair, really.", that by no means advocates that both deserve the same punishment if you are saying that I meant a false accusation is worth the same as a rape, which I did not.

But let's look at a variant of this case, Gary Dotson.

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/wrongfu ... mmary.html

Dotson was sentenced to "25 to 50 years for rape and another 25 to 50 years for aggravated kidnaping", because Cathleen Crowell, the alleged victim "ultimately acknowledged that she had made up the entire scenario and inflicted superficial injuries on herself because she feared that she might have become pregnant through consensual sex with her boyfriend the previous day.". She lifted the false rape scenario from a boudice-ripper she was reading, entitled "Sweet Savage Love (Avon Books, 1974)".

I believe we can say this guy's life was ruined. Certainly for 12 years, and if he is still alive today, he is likely still adversely affected.

All of that versus a possible misdemeanour? I still don't think it's fair, and you need read nothing more into that statement.

With regards to your second question about a man falsely accusing another man of rape, I see no need to distinguish between genders. A false charge is a false charge, and a rape is a rape, regardless of which gender is involved on any side. It's the PC crowd that puts more stock in women being raped, versus men being raped, in my opinion.

Equality is such an easy word to say, yet so hard a goal to achieve.

[GM Citizen]

A question here: what exactly is patriarchy to you guys? I just don't get it. Are you guys like some Dworkinesque Haley Joel Osment in Sixth Sense, but that you guys see dicks everywhere, and this skews your view on just about everything?

You are still cracking me up. "You guys." "Dicks everywhere." It ain't rocket science here. I guess the reason we have had so few women in the US congress is because the women are just failures. Great! I guess I sure got set straight there. Yeesh.

Have you noticed this whole thread has now devolved to a conversation amongst men?

I have no idea who is female or male or anything in between. I'm just notr hung up on that.

That is your comment about the lack of women in congress being a result of women being failures. I will presume you were being sarcastic.

We don't need to get politics in here, cuz I have a sneaking suspicion that you might believe your vote actually counts. That's a whole other issue.

[GM Citizen]

A question here: what exactly is patriarchy to you guys? I just don't get it. Are you guys like some Dworkinesque Haley Joel Osment in Sixth Sense, but that you guys see dicks everywhere, and this skews your view on just about everything?

You are still cracking me up. "You guys." "Dicks everywhere." It ain't rocket science here.

Just askin' what your definition of patriarchy is. I was hoping you would have one handy so that I can help you get through this.

[barracuda]

I have no idea who is female or male or anything in between. I'm just notr hung up on that.

I'm not really hung up on it, either, it was just an observation, but I do happen to delight in the differences. The thought that you would "have no idea" is kinda weird though. For the record, I'm a guy, and obviously so are you.

That is your comment about the lack of women in congress being a result of women being failures. I will presume you were being sarcastic.

I had hoped you were being sarcastic when you said, "Successful? Yup, she did it. Failure, well, yeah, she did that too." But I guess not.

We don't need to get politics in here, cuz I have a sneaking suspicion that you might believe your vote actually counts. That's a whole other issue.

No I don't really believe that much. But the ratio of men to women in congress is, I think a pretty fair indicator of the power differences in our society between men and women. Or do you feel that women just aren't really interested in elective politics that much, and would generally rather stay home? How do you explain this ratio, just out of curiosity?

[Occult Means Hidden]

GM,

Nothing is changed. Still, you are saying it is unfair that (hypothetically) a discovered false statement of rape charge, finding the man innocent, still warrants subsequent action against the liar on-par with the crime of rape.

Giving this example: "But let's look at a variant of this case, Gary Dotson. " is different. In that case, the man has already suffered victim to the woman's lie.

The guy could have been locked up, beaten, even raped, for many long years

'Could have', means he wasn't.

Again, in your original statement that i quoted, you were saying that although it may be discovered that the woman lied, and hence no action was/may taken against the man, you again think the action,: still warrants subsequent action against the liar on-par with the crime of rape. versus discovering the lie retroactively as with your unrelated example of Gary Dotson. Will you please admit a mistake?

[OP ED]

Have you noticed this whole thread has now devolved to a conversation amongst men?

Yes. That is likely because the women here realize that anyone who disagrees with feminist theory hates women and is an advocate of rape and oppression.

You realize that your posts generally sound like the university catalogue's class descriptions, right?

(as long as we're talking about white men)

Just checking.

I generally held the view that the number of women in congress, is more indicative of the moral superiority of women than anything else.

Though I'd point out that I have seen studies that seem to indicate that women (statistically) DO feel less interested in engaging in these sorts of organizations than men (suprise!). This is probably a reflection of the fact that these systems reflect male-chimpanzee-type hierarchical culture. Although this is far from universal and the rigor and/or breadth of these studies was disputed (althought not so politely as the subjects in this thread).

The layers of complications and contradictions inherent in many of these subjects seem to further widen breaches of understanding.

gotta go oppress ann coulter now.

[GM Citizen]

No I don't really believe that much. But the ratio of men to women in congress is, I think a pretty fair indicator of the power differences in our society between men and women. Or do you feel that women just aren't really interested in elective politics that much, and would generally rather stay home? How do you explain this ratio, just out of curiosity?

Not sure if there is a one-size-fits-all reason for the difference. Perhaps women have been conditioned to believe it's a man's world, and that government is a man's domain, or some other such fiction. Maybe enough of them are scared into thinking like that, and so they may not feel they have the wherewithal to join a "man's" game, despite what they may bring to the table. I mean, if you do the patriarchy booga-booga stuff enough, odds are more folks will fall for it, and be less inclined to do what they believe in their heart would be of benefit to their fellow citizens. I think that may be a part of it.

But I believe a more adequate question would be why there needs to be a different ratio than whatever it is right now. Do we need to have 52% (or whatever their current percentage of population is) representation by women? Just because they're women? Sorry, to me that's not a good enough reason....if I bought into the whole politics shitbowl.

I would much rather have someone who was competent, and could look after issues that were important to me. And if that was male, female, or Martian, I could care less.

[barracuda]

Just askin' what your definition of patriarchy is. I was hoping you would have one handy so that I can help you get through this.

I don't have one handy, but since you intend to school me, root one out for us, if you are so inclined. I suggest you try teh intertubes.

[barracuda]

You realize that your posts generally sound like the university catalogue's class descriptions, right?

That is likely because I studied feminist theory at the university, and I find those teachings a wonderful way of bugging people to death. If I don't use them, then I feel like I wasted my money.

I generally held the view that the number of women in congress, is more indicative of the moral superiority of women than anything else.

You are being funny again.