shooting at DC Holocaust museum

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Postby Sweejak » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:18 pm

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Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:42 pm

American Dream wrote:Nordic, if you do indeed have clear thinking about how anti-Zionism and anti-Racism can coexist in a principled framework, then I look forward to seeing that, and will not shirk from the opportunity to withdraw my previous questions.


American Dream, did you just out yourself? I'm not sure.

Do you have "clear thinking" about how zionism and anti-racism can coexist in a principled framework?

Cause I'd sure like to see you explain it, if you do.
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Postby professorpan » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:12 pm

Nordic wrote:The Israeli-can-do-no-wrong crowd is already starting to milk this for all it's worth.

Just made the mistake of cruising past CNN.

"Help! We're being oppressed!"

Yeah, you and a million other people. Oh, including the Palestinians, big time, by YOU.

I mean, it's a bad thing, but I hate to see a militant group use it to justify their own violence against others.


You're mixing up things here. This racist murder has *nothing* to do with the Palestinians or the Israeli government except for you bringing it into the discussion.

Anti-Semitism, of the "Jews are evil vermin that must be exterminated" flavor, is alive and well, as we see from yesterday's murder. Jews and Jewish organizations have a responsibility to point out the existence of this ugly mind virus to arrest its spread.

You characterized Jews or Jewish organizations as saying "Help! We're being oppressed!" So tell me -- when you cruised past CNN, did anyone actually say that Jews were being "oppressed" or is that your word choice? I can't remember ever hearing/reading/seeing any Jew or Jewish organization claiming they were oppressed. Targets of racist nutjobs? Certainly. Scapegoats in a very old strain of hatred? Absolutely.

Pointing out anti-Semitism does not require a caveat about Jewish oppression of Palestinians. All Jews are not responsible for the Israeli government's crimes against the Palestinians, but all Jews are targets for violent anti-Semites. Please don't mix up the two issues.

And all Jews are not part of a "militant group." Really, I can't believe that ridiculous stereotyping didn't catch more flack. What's next -- blacks are a "lazy group?"
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Postby professorpan » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:21 pm

Nordic:

Just wanted to point out that your use of "The Israeli-can-do-no-wrong-crowd" made me curious about what you actually saw on CNN. Did you see an *Israeli* suggesting that he/she was "oppressed?" Did an Israeli tie the murder to the importance of Israel? What exactly was the milking-for-all-its-worth that bothered you?
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Postby StarmanSkye » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:50 pm

I know at this point I shouldn't be surprised at ANY degree of BS being spun-out by the mass media, but the cite by Secrets re: Beck's discreditting all 911 Truthers because von Brunn was 'admired' as a Hero by Truthers is
just
too
idiotic ...

It would make more sense to stereotype all WW II veterans and white men as rightwing paranoid NeoNazis because von Brunn was a WW II veteran and a while male.

Honestly, sometimes I think we're doomed.

Also, apparently a lot of folks are now pointing to von Brunn as a hate-crime conspiracist to discredit EVERYONE who endorses a concpiracy -- without acknowledging that there are many, many dozens of officially-subscribed conspiracy theories that are part of our modern, recent history.

I mean, the level of cultural foolishness here is unbelieveable.

By definition, almost every significant crime or outrage or theft is a conspiracy, if only because one guy can't hide all the bodies, deny all the charges, answer all the phones or carry all the loot.

The opportunistic demonization of 'conspiracy' is a sign that the criminal official's cover-up and denial desperation is reaching fever-pitch -- No cheap-shot left unexploited.


-S
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Postby Nordic » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:16 pm

StarmanSkye wrote:Also, apparently a lot of folks are now pointing to von Brunn as a hate-crime conspiracist to discredit EVERYONE who endorses a concpiracy -- without acknowledging that there are many, many dozens of officially-subscribed conspiracy theories that are part of our modern, recent history.

The opportunistic demonization of 'conspiracy' is a sign that the criminal official's cover-up and denial desperation is reaching fever-pitch -- No cheap-shot left unexploited.


-S


Well ...... YEAH!!

That's been really ramping up just lately. I think, with the revelation that the 9/11 commission report was based a) on torture and b) is being revealed in a book coming out this fall to have literally been a "lie by conspiracy", that they're really starting to ramp out this stuff.

The last couple of weeks the Mouthpiece Media has really been all over the whole "conspiracy theory" thing, on both sides of the "aisle". The left gatekeepers like Kos and others throwing around the "conspiracy theorist" label at people like Beck, and now Beck doing it back to everybody else.

Even Obama got on the bandwagon in his Cairo speech.

"conspiracy theorist" = "murderous nutjob"
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Postby Nordic » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:20 pm

professorpan wrote:
Nordic wrote:The Israeli-can-do-no-wrong crowd is already starting to milk this for all it's worth.

Just made the mistake of cruising past CNN.

"Help! We're being oppressed!"

Yeah, you and a million other people. Oh, including the Palestinians, big time, by YOU.

I mean, it's a bad thing, but I hate to see a militant group use it to justify their own violence against others.


You're mixing up things here. This racist murder has *nothing* to do with the Palestinians or the Israeli government except for you bringing it into the discussion.

Anti-Semitism, of the "Jews are evil vermin that must be exterminated" flavor, is alive and well, as we see from yesterday's murder. Jews and Jewish organizations have a responsibility to point out the existence of this ugly mind virus to arrest its spread.

You characterized Jews or Jewish organizations as saying "Help! We're being oppressed!" So tell me -- when you cruised past CNN, did anyone actually say that Jews were being "oppressed" or is that your word choice? I can't remember ever hearing/reading/seeing any Jew or Jewish organization claiming they were oppressed. Targets of racist nutjobs? Certainly. Scapegoats in a very old strain of hatred? Absolutely.

Pointing out anti-Semitism does not require a caveat about Jewish oppression of Palestinians. All Jews are not responsible for the Israeli government's crimes against the Palestinians, but all Jews are targets for violent anti-Semites. Please don't mix up the two issues.

And all Jews are not part of a "militant group." Really, I can't believe that ridiculous stereotyping didn't catch more flack. What's next -- blacks are a "lazy group?"


Please. Your comment is exactly the kind of crap I'm talking about. You can't say anything without being instantly categorized into some group that the commentor doesn't like.

The thing I like about this site is you can usually avoid that categorization bullshit here.

Read my lips -- I don't like racists, I don't like bullies, I don't like control freaks, I don't like violence, I don't exploitation of tragedies to further one's political ends, I don't like strawmen, I don't like judgmental tendencies, I don't like lumping people together into different categories because it makes my life more convenient and makes it easier to demonize those with whom I disagree.

What more do you want me to says I don't like?

I don't really give a shit what nationality or religion or race ANY individual is.

I care about their actions, and I care about how they group together to commit crimes against other groups. I care about how they lie, how they manipulate, and how they cheat and steal.

Most of the crimes I'm aware of from the last eight years or so were committed by White Christian Men. Now who is gonna get all jumpy about me "hating Christians" or "hating men" or "hating white people?"

C'mon, go ahead. I'm waiting for those charges .....

But if somebody is Jewish, OMIFUCKINGGOD that means I might be a fucking neo-nazi racist who thinks that all Jewish people are vermin and should be exterminated from the face of the earth.

Wrong.

Don't you think it's time to end that ubersensitivity? Especially when that sensitivity is used as an EXCUSE to murder other people, steal their land, commit all manners of atrocities?

The ubsersensitivity isn't even real any more, it's used as a tool to manipulate and cajole and bully people. Which, hm, let me check my list, are things I don't like.

And the whole "help we're being oppressed" thing is a line from Monty Python which I just assumed everybody was familiar with. If not, well, I apologize for it coming across as something else. It's a joke.

But if you're happy with the unfair advantage Israel has in the United States, so be it. But it's a bizarre thing, it makes no fucking sense, and it's just plain wrong.

And let's face it, this whole thing is indeed getting played up far more than the other acts of terrorism lately. Why? Because it was at the Holocaust museum and was done by a neo-nazi jew-hater. Is that any more wrong than the Muslim who killed the Army recruiters, or the guy who killed the abortion doctor? They're all EQUALLY heinous.
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Postby Jeff » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:27 pm

Nordic wrote:Even Obama got on the bandwagon in his Cairo speech.

"conspiracy theorist" = "murderous nutjob"


Well, let's respect that remark's context.

For instance, Robert Fisk: "The protocols of the Elders of Zion, the infamous anti-Semitic tract forged by the Tsarist secret police, floats around the Arab world like a monster.... Now the Egyptians have gone one worse. They are showing a 30-part series based around the vicious text."
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Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:52 pm

Jeff wrote:
Nordic wrote:Even Obama got on the bandwagon in his Cairo speech.

"conspiracy theorist" = "murderous nutjob"


Well, let's respect that remark's context.

For instance, Robert Fisk: "The protocols of the Elders of Zion, the infamous anti-Semitic tract forged by the Tsarist secret police, floats around the Arab world like a monster.... Now the Egyptians have gone one worse. They are showing a 30-part series based around the vicious text."


Yes, Jeff, you are so right. Robert Fisk sure has our number -- we Arabs just sit around all day and read The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It's a very important book to us, which is why we are such anti-semites. According to Fisk (though he doesn't understand Arabic and often makes huge mistakes in his articles about the Arab world as a result) and the poor, maligned neocons, there was a whole series all about it! They're all such experts, who could doubt their word? Fisk is never wrong, and when his account conflicts with that of Egyptians who actually SAW the series or who WROTE the series, well, we know who to believe. Right?

Besides, Arabs believe all kinds of wacky conspiracy theories. They actually claim that Arabs have been systematically portrayed as subhuman savages by Hollywood, imagine that. There's another conspiracy theory that "floats around the Arab world like a monster" that the zionists conspired to set up a Jewish state in Palestine and to rob, kill and expel the Palestinians. It's true! Believe it or not, there are actually nut-jobs who believe that "Al Qaeda" was created by the CIA!! And get this, some even say that there was a conspiracy to invade and destroy Iraq! Crazy stuff.

Those dumb, "vicious" anti-semitic Arabs, always making wild accusations and claiming to be the victims of conspiracies. It's all because of those damn Protocols making holes in their brains.
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Postby lightningBugout » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:58 pm

Alice I agree with every last drop of your sentiment. But I don't see why that is in any way at odds with recognizing the importance of constantly debunking the Protocols. Less so because of anything it has to do with the Arab world as it does to with the Smash-ZOG types in the States.
"What's robbing a bank compared with founding a bank?" Bertolt Brecht
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Postby Jeff » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:21 pm

Whatever you think of his comments, This is the reason he made them in Cairo.

Image

He wasn't speaking to Alex Jones and Richard Gage.
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Postby DrVolin » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:02 pm

Overheard on ACia 360 last night:

POTOK: Well, he like, many anti-Semites -- people were involved in this movement felt that the Federal Reserve Board is not really an entity that was created for the good of the nation, that in fact it's a private scam set up to benefit international Jewish bankers. Set up by the Rothschild family, as they say. And so it's a part of a much larger conspiracy theory about Jews essentially trying to take over the country; Jew and Christian whites and so on.

And he got this idea in his head to the point that he was actually willing to march into the Federal Reserve Board building with a sawed-off shotgun and a hunting knife. And his plan was in fact to take the governors of the board, along with Paul Volcker, hostage and essentially force them to admit the terrible things they had done on television.


Oh I get it. Everyone who says that the federal reserve was not created in the best interest of the nation must be a racist, anti-semitic, murderous crazed gunman. That makes perfect sense. I'll be sure to remember that. In fact, any time anyone mentions the Fed from now on, I'll immediately label them as white supremacist potential domestic terrorists (and probably veterans!) and start ignoring them. In fact, I might just report them to Homeland Security. Just in case.
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Postby JackRiddler » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:26 pm

.

As von Brunn was a member, I blame MENSA and its supremacist ideology. Those middlebrow IQ test-taking dorks need to search their souls and understand that their groundless, charmless sense of superiority inevitably causes a number of the more extremist members to walk into museums with .22 rifles and shoot security guards. When will Congress act to protect society from these conceited fuckers?

.
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Postby Brentos » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:41 pm

Jeff wrote:Whatever you think of his comments, This is the reason he made them in Cairo.

Image

He wasn't speaking to Alex Jones and Richard Gage.


"Whatever you think of his comments, This *is* the reason he made them in Cairo. "
F*ckin hell, no wonder I dont post here anymore.
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Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:23 am

So early?
I should've posted my prediction earlier...

Gee, what decoy event is going to be whipped up before the 40th anniversary of the July 20, 1969 moon walk.

Because that will bring up Werner von Braun and the Jews.

Oops. There it is.
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
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Disney is CIA for kidz!
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