So Whose Fault Is It "9/11 Truth" Was An Abysmal Failure?

[jingofever]

I blame Heidi Montag and Spencer Pratt for not pushing 9/11 Truth hard enough.

[hanshan]

...


AliceTheKurious:

So, to answer your strange question, 8bit, it is not "9/11 Truth" that has failed,
but the political and legal system in the United States, and the highly
centralized corporate media that have been exposed as utter, abject
failures, unless their true purpose is to serve the interests of a tiny
number of predator elites at the expense of everyone else, including
the American people. In that sense, they've been very successful,
although in the process they've outed themselves to a growing number
of individuals whose dawning realization that "their" government and "the
'respectable' media" are not only untrustworthy, but hostile and dangerous
as hell has been confirmed by all that followed 9/11, culminating in the mammoth
wealth transfer to rich con artists represented by the 'financial crisis'
and the War on Terra; hence the accelerating transformation of
America into a totalitarian police state. None of that would
be necessary if the 9/11 Truth was such an abysmal failure.


This is a marvelous summation AlicetheKurious.
Highlighting the obvious.
tx


...

[sunny]

...


AliceTheKurious:

So, to answer your strange question, 8bit, it is not "9/11 Truth" that has failed,
but the political and legal system in the United States, and the highly
centralized corporate media that have been exposed as utter, abject
failures, unless their true purpose is to serve the interests of a tiny
number of predator elites at the expense of everyone else, including
the American people. In that sense, they've been very successful,
although in the process they've outed themselves to a growing number
of individuals whose dawning realization that "their" government and "the
'respectable' media" are not only untrustworthy, but hostile and dangerous
as hell has been confirmed by all that followed 9/11, culminating in the mammoth
wealth transfer to rich con artists represented by the 'financial crisis'
and the War on Terra; hence the accelerating transformation of
America into a totalitarian police state. None of that would
be necessary if the 9/11 Truth was such an abysmal failure.


This is a marvelous summation AlicetheKurious.
Highlighting the obvious.
tx


...

I came in here to do the same thing hanshan. As usual, Alice nails it to the wall.

[Hammer of Los]

How perfectly lovely to see Sunny here again.

Yeah, fer sure Alice has a way with words. She's a killer ain't she? I actually rather liked this bit;

[8bit's].. analysis is like a popcorn machine, with factoids and bullshit and genuine nuggets of fact all flying in the air, along with a few balls of lead from the Official Script thrown in.

[sunny]

Thank you Hammer.

Alice should write a book, any kind of book.

[thatsmystory]

Like his insistence on the accuracy of the 'hijackers' story: when he was cornered with overwhelming evidence that it doesn't hold up under scrutiny, even he admitted it didn't make sense. But then he popped up with it again, just as he does with everything else, quoting from the same script.

[/quote]
So who were they? Did they think it was a skit and they were playing the role of terrorists? That appears to be a theory of some in the 9/11 truth movement. Why is it difficult to believe that the hijackers were motivated by opposition to US foreign policy?

[kenoma]

I don't think he's funny at all. I've spent hours and hours researching and posting to expose the fakery (and, as Hugh said, "false framing") that 8bit insistently embeds in his voluminous rants about the supposed hijackers, "Arab elites" (!!!!?!), , and how silly it is to ask "cui bono?", how even sillier it is to trace the role of very powerful Israeli-connected players at every stage in the planning, execution and cover-up of the 9/11 attacks, not to mention the ensuing War on Muslims which has already claimed millions of innocent lives with no end in sight. His analysis is like a popcorn machine, with factoids and bullshit and genuine nuggets of fact all flying in the air, along with a few balls of lead from the Official Script thrown in. Like his insistence on the accuracy of the 'hijackers' story: when he was cornered with overwhelming evidence that it doesn't hold up under scrutiny, even he admitted it didn't make sense. But then he popped up with it again, just as he does with everything else, quoting from the same script.

Bravo.
. 8bit consistently confabulated a ridiculous hollywood narrative of dark foreigners infiltrating a hapless US establishment by employing magical computer technology (ptech etc etc ) and occult numerology. There was nothing sinister about this: just the product of a tv-addled imagination convincing itself that the investigation of 'deep' politics automatically conferred upon the investigator a corresponding profundity. From his perspective, and indeed, in the whole scheme of things, this was all quite harmless and certainly without malicious intent. But the filter of American schlock-pop through which he interpreted geopolitics inevitably reproduced the most ridiculous racial stereotying ("Muslim financiers") and a kind of clueless belief in the ultimate ignorance/innocence of the American elite. He diligently wished the empire out of existence by means of increasingly baroque explanations of 9/11.
BTW, I remember well that the usually voluble 8bit fell silent for a long period of time (3 months I think) just after this long-forgotten thread, in which the ludicrous fable where the head of a very large and sophisticated intelligence agency would personally wire money to an alleged field operative was challenged. I thought that silence indicated some rethinking of his position re: the dubious role of ISI in 9/11. But really it seems he had a very naive understanding of tradecraft, since he continued as before.

[nathan28]

I don't think he's funny at all. I've spent hours and hours researching and posting to expose the fakery (and, as Hugh said, "false framing") that 8bit insistently embeds in his voluminous rants about the supposed hijackers, "Arab elites" (!!!!?!), , and how silly it is to ask "cui bono?", how even sillier it is to trace the role of very powerful Israeli-connected players at every stage in the planning, execution and cover-up of the 9/11 attacks, not to mention the ensuing War on Muslims which has already claimed millions of innocent lives with no end in sight. His analysis is like a popcorn machine, with factoids and bullshit and genuine nuggets of fact all flying in the air, along with a few balls of lead from the Official Script thrown in. Like his insistence on the accuracy of the 'hijackers' story: when he was cornered with overwhelming evidence that it doesn't hold up under scrutiny, even he admitted it didn't make sense. But then he popped up with it again, just as he does with everything else, quoting from the same script.

Bravo.
. 8bit consistently confabulated a ridiculous hollywood narrative of dark foreigners infiltrating a hapless US establishment by employing magical computer technology (ptech etc etc ) and occult numerology. There was nothing sinister about this: just the product of a tv-addled imagination convincing itself that the investigation of 'deep' politics automatically conferred upon the investigator a corresponding profundity. From his perspective, and indeed, in the whole scheme of things, this was all quite harmless and certainly without malicious intent. But the filter of American schlock-pop through which he interpreted geopolitics inevitably reproduced the most ridiculous racial stereotying ("Muslim financiers") and a kind of clueless belief in the ultimate ignorance/innocence of the American elite. He diligently wished the empire out of existence by means of increasingly baroque explanations of 9/11.
BTW, I remember well that the usually voluble 8bit fell silent for a long period of time (3 months I think) just after this long-forgotten thread, in which the ludicrous fable where the head of a very large and sophisticated intelligence agency would personally wire money to an alleged field operative was challenged. I thought that silence indicated some rethinking of his position re: the dubious role of ISI in 9/11. But really it seems he had a very naive understanding of tradecraft, since he continued as before.

The Ruppertesque PTECH thing a joke? Okay, sure. But otherwise, besides it being bad form to bash someone who just left and can't defend this: Because there are, like, no banks in Dubai, and stuff, and totally no wealthy Saudi families. And, like, no Islamist would ever, ever consider getting into drug trafficking and inadvertantly bumping elbows with intel people, especially not if, like, you could buy a couple crates of Kalashnikovs with the money. No way. Totally unbelievable fairy tale. And that whole thing about the private airfield scene in the US? Nothing to it. Fairy tale. What's 43 lbs. of dope between friends of both the GOP and Osama bL?

[nathan28]

Oh... and.

Take a moment, and ask yourself:

Can and do the upper class look beyond race for the set of their interests? Do Saudi bankers have more in common with Israeli bankers than they do with Muslim North African immigrants in France? Would a governmental agency with a demonstrated, on-the-record history of involvement in drug trafficking--would it be surprising to find rumors of activity by that agency in a pair of Central Asian countries responsible for almost all the opium in the world? Is it racist to suggest that people with different colored skin can and do co-operate for their own mutual advancement? Why would the American far right, usually explicitly white supremacist and either Christian or Aryanist, cooperate with, at least upon review of current information, Arabs like John Does 1 & 2 in OKC? And isn't it really strange that US-tagged explosives get used on US ships by supposed Muslim extremists when there's really only one route for those into the Middle East, and it rhymes with "schmizrael?" And getting back to now-departed 8bit, do you remember how he'd routinely post that image showing the supposed locations of 9/11 hijackers overlapping with known Mossad agents' placement?

Is it possible that the world might be a nuanced place?

Look, I'm not going to convince anyone here that the "The Zionists" didn't not only kill Jesus, but use 9/11/01 to defame the Arab world. But never mind, it's racist to think that anything but Republicans with dual Israeli-US citizenship could have wired the WTC to pancake collapse.

[Alaya]

Good points, Alice. I think this thread may be one of the reasons why 8bit is leaving.

I hope that no one leaves any discussion, about any subject, because their points aren't being received in a manner that they prefer.

The message suffers, in such an instance, because of the messenger's need.

True but needs change too and people go through phases of backing up, retreating and going forward again.

I thought there was more of a sense of community here. None of us are static. Sometimes we are all over the place, instead of being focused. So what?

The way I see it, we all need the space room to be less than perfect.

[kenoma]

The Ruppertesque PTECH thing a joke? Okay, sure. But otherwise, besides Because there are, like, no banks in Dubai, and stuff, and totally no wealthy Saudi families. And, like, no Islamist would ever, ever consider getting into drug trafficking and inadvertantly bumping elbows with intel people, especially not if, like, you could buy a couple crates of Kalashnikovs with the money. No way. Totally unbelievable fairy tale. And that whole thing about the private airfield scene in the US? Nothing to it. Fairy tale. What's 43 lbs. of dope between friends of both the GOP and Osama bL?

I am utterly mystified by this. I honestly have no idea what point I'm supposed to respond to here.

[thatsmystory]

Bravo.
. 8bit consistently confabulated a ridiculous hollywood narrative of dark foreigners infiltrating a hapless US establishment by employing magical computer technology (ptech etc etc ) and occult numerology. There was nothing sinister about this: just the product of a tv-addled imagination convincing itself that the investigation of 'deep' politics automatically conferred upon the investigator a corresponding profundity. From his perspective, and indeed, in the whole scheme of things, this was all quite harmless and certainly without malicious intent. But the filter of American schlock-pop through which he interpreted geopolitics inevitably reproduced the most ridiculous racial stereotying ("Muslim financiers") and a kind of clueless belief in the ultimate ignorance/innocence of the American elite. He diligently wished the empire out of existence by means of increasingly baroque explanations of 9/11.
BTW, I remember well that the usually voluble 8bit fell silent for a long period of time (3 months I think) just after this long-forgotten thread, in which the ludicrous fable where the head of a very large and sophisticated intelligence agency would personally wire money to an alleged field operative was challenged. I thought that silence indicated some rethinking of his position re: the dubious role of ISI in 9/11. But really it seems he had a very naive understanding of tradecraft, since he continued as before.

Are you suggesting the Mahmoud/Atta story is a deliberate false trail? Which trails are real?

[82_28]

I don't think he's funny at all. I've spent hours and hours researching and posting to expose the fakery (and, as Hugh said, "false framing") that 8bit insistently embeds in his voluminous rants about the supposed hijackers, "Arab elites" (!!!!?!), , and how silly it is to ask "cui bono?", how even sillier it is to trace the role of very powerful Israeli-connected players at every stage in the planning, execution and cover-up of the 9/11 attacks, not to mention the ensuing War on Muslims which has already claimed millions of innocent lives with no end in sight. His analysis is like a popcorn machine, with factoids and bullshit and genuine nuggets of fact all flying in the air, along with a few balls of lead from the Official Script thrown in. Like his insistence on the accuracy of the 'hijackers' story: when he was cornered with overwhelming evidence that it doesn't hold up under scrutiny, even he admitted it didn't make sense. But then he popped up with it again, just as he does with everything else, quoting from the same script.

Bravo.
. 8bit consistently confabulated a ridiculous hollywood narrative of dark foreigners infiltrating a hapless US establishment by employing magical computer technology (ptech etc etc ) and occult numerology. There was nothing sinister about this: just the product of a tv-addled imagination convincing itself that the investigation of 'deep' politics automatically conferred upon the investigator a corresponding profundity. From his perspective, and indeed, in the whole scheme of things, this was all quite harmless and certainly without malicious intent. But the filter of American schlock-pop through which he interpreted geopolitics inevitably reproduced the most ridiculous racial stereotying ("Muslim financiers") and a kind of clueless belief in the ultimate ignorance/innocence of the American elite. He diligently wished the empire out of existence by means of increasingly baroque explanations of 9/11.
BTW, I remember well that the usually voluble 8bit fell silent for a long period of time (3 months I think) just after this long-forgotten thread, in which the ludicrous fable where the head of a very large and sophisticated intelligence agency would personally wire money to an alleged field operative was challenged. I thought that silence indicated some rethinking of his position re: the dubious role of ISI in 9/11. But really it seems he had a very naive understanding of tradecraft, since he continued as before.

I know surprisingly little about 8bitagent. I know nothing about his background or lineage. I do not know where 8bitagent was educated or what he has done besides poison the relationship between teacher and student. Nevertheless, I can tell you all that you need to know about him. Permit me this forum to rant. Contrast, for example, his views with those of the most morally questionable schmucks you'll ever see, and observe that there is no contrast. I, by (genuine) contrast, take the view that he says that advertising is the most veridical form of human communication. Whenever I hear such statements from 8bitagent I reel in disbelief. Does he really believe such dangerous things? Before you answer, let me point out that if one dares to criticize even a single tenet of 8bitagent's circulars, one is promptly condemned as unsavory, insensitive, hidebound, or whatever epithet 8bitagent deems most appropriate, usually without much explanation.

Worst of all, our children's children would never forgive us for letting 8bitagent shame my name. If I recall correctly, if you'll allow me a minor dysphemism, he is too contemptible to reason with. Or, to phrase that a little more politely, when a friend wants to drive inebriated, you try to stop him. Well, 8bitagent is drunk with power, which is why we must convince conniving, twisted spongers to stop supporting 8bitagent and tolerating his excuses. 8bitagent proclaims at every opportunity that he'd never get as many people as possible to line up behind the geek-tent barkers at the latest and greatest carnival of paternalism. The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks. He knows that performing an occasional act of charity will make some people forgive—or at least overlook—all of his refractory excesses. My take on the matter is that 8bitagent definitely believes that his barbs provide a liberating insight into life, the universe, and everything. What kind of Humpty-Dumpty world is he living in? Many people consider that question irrelevant on the grounds that I am not interested in debating 8bitagent. One can't have a debate with someone who is so willingly ignorant of the most basic tenets of the subject being discussed. Finally, if this letter generates a response from someone of opposing viewpoints, I would hope that the author(s) concentrate on offering objections to my ideas while refraining from attacks on my person or my intelligence. I've gotten enough of that already from 8bitagent.

[psynapz]

Blow away, 8bit. And take your fictitious 'hijackers' with you.

Wow, I guess Hugh Manatee really does Win.

Hugh, real hijackers, some using using stolen passports, motherfucking hijacked those planes. If remote control was used, it was secondary to this. Like the 7/7 bombers, they might not have even known what was in store for them until the damn things just started flying themselves. Who knows, but we do know there were some goddamn hijackers, and we do know some were trained at a CIA-protected flight school who also runs drugs, and we do know there were middle-eastern financiers, and we do know those financiers are connected to the intel world.

Also, we know (save for Jeff) that the traumatic demise of the buildings was ensured by careful planning, planting, priming and sequencing of demolition, regardless of who paid who to fly into what. I don't understand how these two things are mutually exclusive in your head.

[Nordic]

I know surprisingly little about 8bitagent. I know nothing about his background or lineage. I do not know where 8bitagent was educated or what he has done besides poison the relationship between teacher and student. Nevertheless, I can tell you all that you need to know about him. Permit me this forum to rant. Contrast, for example, his views with those of the most morally questionable schmucks you'll ever see, and observe that there is no contrast. I, by (genuine) contrast, take the view that he says that advertising is the most veridical form of human communication. Whenever I hear such statements from 8bitagent I reel in disbelief. Does he really believe such dangerous things? Before you answer, let me point out that if one dares to criticize even a single tenet of 8bitagent's circulars, one is promptly condemned as unsavory, insensitive, hidebound, or whatever epithet 8bitagent deems most appropriate, usually without much explanation.

Worst of all, our children's children would never forgive us for letting 8bitagent shame my name. If I recall correctly, if you'll allow me a minor dysphemism, he is too contemptible to reason with. Or, to phrase that a little more politely, when a friend wants to drive inebriated, you try to stop him. Well, 8bitagent is drunk with power, which is why we must convince conniving, twisted spongers to stop supporting 8bitagent and tolerating his excuses. 8bitagent proclaims at every opportunity that he'd never get as many people as possible to line up behind the geek-tent barkers at the latest and greatest carnival of paternalism. The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks. He knows that performing an occasional act of charity will make some people forgive—or at least overlook—all of his refractory excesses. My take on the matter is that 8bitagent definitely believes that his barbs provide a liberating insight into life, the universe, and everything. What kind of Humpty-Dumpty world is he living in? Many people consider that question irrelevant on the grounds that I am not interested in debating 8bitagent. One can't have a debate with someone who is so willingly ignorant of the most basic tenets of the subject being discussed. Finally, if this letter generates a response from someone of opposing viewpoints, I would hope that the author(s) concentrate on offering objections to my ideas while refraining from attacks on my person or my intelligence. I've gotten enough of that already from 8bitagent.

Could you cut that out? It's getting kind of old, and I just spent the last seven minutes carefully reading that, trying to figure out what you were talking about.

Seriously, it's kind of annoying. Or maybe I'm just grumpy.