No credible explanation except a vicious anti-Semitic plot.

[82_28]

I however think, that there are a lot of Jewish people and American people ad infinitum who also wish to kill Muslims. I would be a friend of a peaceful Muslim before I would be a friend of a Jewish racist. The same, you see, goes vice versa -- I prefer, as a sole human, to be respected on my merits to the kindness I present to others, not where I have come from and what my blood lineage is. Humanity is humanity and all needs to be respected if we are going to live through this mess. It is only one pale blue dot after all. Eh?

[Joe Hillshoist]

Poor Joe. Israel me and Dershowitz are making him use Nazi terminology against Jews. Wah!!!!!!!!

No ones making me do it.


But ... how can you deny the similarities in policy in both cases? You can't, can you? They aren't the same obviously, but there's this banality to state based fascist brutality that looks the same whatever the differences in scale or technique or whatever else. Dershowitz is Jewish, but non Jewish people say the same sort of thing and neither are justified. Nor is this comment:

If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli.

Then again is that what he actually said? That quote is as untrustworthy as Kuntar's claim about the newspaper report. However he at least stated the original source. If it exists. I'm actually treating his claim with the same scepticism I have that the quote is an accurate translation. It may be tho. An original source or several (if its a translation) would convince me because wrt

To your credit you have spoken against the Zion-Nazis stuff yet NOW lower yourself to this and put the blame on everyone but yourself. Now you being Kuntar's lawyer??????

The first casualty in war is truth and Kuntar story could easily be what he claims, that the child and the father were killed in a gunfight, and that he was tortured into confessing. But it could be what the court found is true, cos honestly I can easily see a stressed out 16 year old idealist/idealogue in his situation (having spent nearly a year in prison already) would commit a horrific act easily. Its not justifiable but it isn't pre meditated murder of a child either. People do horrific things in war all the time, and regret them or repress them for years. Africa is full of traumatiused child soldiers who did horrific things to people. It doesn't justify them tho. And he's been in jail for 25 years, his entire youth. He didn't get away with it.

Anyway he has consistently claimed his innocence since day one. And thats not rehab either, since the guy has basically told the same story since his trial. Its not like the Israeli justice system is immune to political interference - Mordecai whatshisname's in prison again isn't he?

Its interesting you define me pointing out the other side in a propaganda war as terrorist love too. Is that plan B in the defenders of fascism handbook?

I don't hate Israel either. Yet again you build these ... what are they scare crows or something? Easier to argue with straw when you're losing against me isn't it 17b?

I am consistently appalled by the Israeli governments behaviour, (I'm also consistently appalled by my own government's behaviour as well. But I don't hate Australia.) Of course I have made this clear fairly constantly as well, and I've even specified the faction of Israeli politics responsible. Its scarily similar to the faction in Australia that supported and enabled blowing the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan, locking up kids in the desert cos they were running from oppression elsewhere and had the guts to come to australia in leaky boats, and shat on blackfellas at every opportunity. And the one in the US that actually blew the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as implementing policies of torture, undermining its own constitution etc etc.

Yeah right I'm a terrorist loving crypto Nazi Israel hating antisemite who cheers the killing of babies and have you got any other strawmen you want me to burn down, you know, seeing as you can't mount an actual argument against what I'm saying. Its ok - I'm a fireman I'll put them out when I'm done.


Oh yeah - about Hezbollah ... just what the fuck do you expect is going to happen?

You might see one side as terrorists and one as righteous defenders of themselves but I see two sides committing violence, the only difference being the scale and who started it. Honestly tho you can't compare the two. The damage done to Israel by terrorists from lebanon and palestine vs the damage to those places by Israel? Its easy to see who does the most brutal violence and the massive scale they do it on.

You are the one trying to act like that has no bearing on this and yet again you are wrong. The people who do the minor violence in response are worse cos of the words they use? Is that really your point?

Wah!!!!!!!!

BTW I'm not the crying - thats projection on your part but since you mention Wah.

I appreciate the compliment, but I'm not him. Maybe one day... I'd love to have a beer with him.

And sometimes you do deserve a nomination on his other blog.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Damn, Joe, he's figured you out! The gig's up!

Yeah time to get that swastika tattooed onto my forehead.

FOR THE RECORD: I don't think you are a nazi or an antisemite. Just a useful idiot for their propaganda because of your ideology. Many Israel haters fall prey to the disease because it's so easy to go along. They see others doing it and figure it's ok to go beyond rational criticism of Israeli policies and into the siren call of Nazis comparisons and into the romanticism of "resistance fighters," who are actually antisemites with the express goal of killing Jews and destroying Israel.

ps useful idiot does not mean I consider you an idiot; just a fellow traveller.

I know you just got suspended, and although you have no come back to this (at least for a week) but I take what you said on face value, and don't actually consider you a troll. I think you genuinely believe that I hate Israel. Thats really sad, cos it isn't true. But ... the right in Israel is responsible for the entire mess in the middle east right now, Rabin's assassination then the constant provocation leading to the second intafada have been so fundamental to the situation now. Without their actions there is a real case that there could be something approaching peace by now. Maybe not - other things could have happened who knows. BUT there was a chance and they killed it.

Thats really all there is to it.

And thats all I've actually said. You know as far as actual rational criticism - that and - well if you invade people's homeland and blow the fuck out of them for 30 years. Then you re surprised that they hate you and want to destroy your state...

I mean you know rationalism and all.

And I'm not a useful idiot, any more than you are.

My Nazi call was no different to your terrorist call on Chomsky. You might think so, but it isn't. If anything there's less justification for your call cos there are disturbing trends or similarities between nazi germany or any oppressive regime that practices reprisal and collective punishment and the state of Israel's actual practices and policies today. That probably makes the comparison more odious cos the truth hurts.

(And its not actually a fair comparison. There is no real comparison there with Nazi Germany, yet, but there are disturbing trends - hence the painful truth.)

Its irrelevent anyway. Israel's actions stand on their own, like Iran's or the US or Australia's or Russia's or anyone's. They should be judged on their own terms.


However if you don't like having your buttons pushed don't be so keen to push them in others. If you want sensitivity and respect then show some - its a lesson we should learn in childhood.

And honestly, I can understand why the comments about destroying Israel are so scary for Jewish people. There is still that fear and trauma, and tho Finklestein's right about the exploitation of it (especially by said political right in and out of Israel) it should still be acknowledged. Its a valid fear, and if I was Jewish and living in Israel those words would scare the crap out of me on some level.

(Tho it should never be used to justify the treatment of the Palestinians or the Lebanese or anyone else. Thats what makes this situation so bad and it'll end up being a self fulfilling prophecy.)


Saying there is only one legitimate side to this and anything else is some form of antisemitism - thats garbage. Its a strawman (again ), like my alleged love for Hezbollah, and its not what I am doing, saying or enabling.

Then trying to say ... "well rational criticism would be ok but ..." - my criticism has been rational.

Thats why you have actual no come back to it.

And why you have lost the argument.

[Nordic]

Many Israel haters fall prey to the disease because it's so easy to go along.

Actually, the opposite is true.

I never used to hate Israel. Because I wasn't paying attention.

In fact, I used to fall for the company line, promulgated by the media and everything else -- that the Israelis are the victims, everybody wants to kill them, nasty terrorists abound everywhere, and they're just innocent "settlers" trying to tame an otherwise inhospitable landscape, and that the hatred sent their way was 100% religious, because, well, "those people" have always hated them and vice versa, and that to live in peace they had to express an inordinate amount of force to quell the racist violence irrationally sent their way on a continual basis.

That's what I used to believe, you ignorant ***.

The reality as it turns out is 180 degrees DIFFERENT.

THAT'S why people like me hate Israel. Because we realized we were fucking LIED TO our entire lives, and we've discovered who the real BAD GUYS are there.

You racist warmongering *******.

[barracuda]

Nordic.

I know you have voiced a wish to spend a bit less time on the board, but do you actually want to be suspended?

Please quit directing the motherfucking shitty obscenities at goddamn members of the forum.

It's the fucking rules. A quantum of civility, you know?

[Nordic]

Nordic.

I know you have voiced a wish to spend a bit less time on the board, but do you actually want to be suspended?

Please quit directing the motherfucking shitty obscenities at goddamn menbers of the forum.

It's the fucking rules. A quantum of civility, you know?

sir yes sir.

It's okay to be a genocidal racist warmongering troll, but heaven forbid I should use a few naughty words.

But okay, done.

[82_28]

Nordic.

I know you have voiced a wish to spend a bit less time on the board, but do you actually want to be suspended?

Please quit directing the motherfucking shitty obscenities at goddamn menbers of the forum.

It's the fucking rules. A quantum of civility, you know?

sir yes sir.

It's okay to be a genocidal racist warmongering troll, but heaven forbid I should use a few naughty words.

But okay, done.

17 was trolling and flaming this board and I can see where Nordic acquired his frustration. I wasn't gonna go there myself, but many I think here wanted to. Look at Nordic's rant as the final explosion of a supernova. 17 was getting more and more caustic as the days wore on. We all know Nordic can be caustic too -- as can we all. We had the only successful planetary Top Kill of the day! We should be proud of this RIkkies.

And if 17 comes back, let me say, that racism, flaming nor trolling is appreciated here. I don't care what side of the fence you are on. Engage in discussion or don't at all.

[Nordic]

And his Avatar was as visually abrasive as he was.

[justdrew]

Nordic.

I know you have voiced a wish to spend a bit less time on the board, but do you actually want to be suspended?

Please quit directing the motherfucking shitty obscenities at goddamn menbers of the forum.

It's the fucking rules. A quantum of civility, you know?

sir yes sir.

It's okay to be a genocidal racist warmongering troll, but heaven forbid I should use a few naughty words.

But okay, done.

17 was trolling and flaming this board and I can see where Nordic acquired his frustration. I wasn't gonna go there myself, but many I think here wanted to. Look at Nordic's rant as the final explosion of a supernova. 17 was getting more and more caustic as the days wore on. We all know Nordic can be caustic too -- as can we all. We had the only successful planetary Top Kill of the day! We should be proud of this RIkkies.

And if 17 comes back, let me say, that racism, flaming nor trolling is appreciated here. I don't care what side of the fence you are on. Engage in discussion or don't at all.

the fun thing with a potential troll is to nearly force them to talk and defend their position, it takes a lot of tact, but i think I got a fair, real response out of him once or twice. I don't think he was some pro-troll but I do think it wasn't quite working out. I also am a little disappointed in the vitriol he engendered. don't let him play scape goat like that. and we''re really so much better than that. or w(sh)ould be.

(I freely admit I've emitted flame and bullshit from time to time and am far from perfect. thanks for any toleration )

[The Consul]

Israel is almost as afraid of Chomsky as William F. Buckley was. I don't get it. He talks a lot and thereby says things that are less than agreeable (true according to one's own rational interpretations, leanings and depth of self deception) to any particular host country, network or political faction. He has at times seemed an apologist for people who have assumed the most grotesque forms of resistence. I don't believe everything he says just because he is Noam Chomsky. And the NSA is full of wide eyed brainiacs from MIT, so, well...what? But he asks great questions that don't get asked by anyone else with that weight, or at least don't get the air time. And it was myopia not to peel what led to the rise of Pol Pot from year zero and the muggy boneyards of Campuchea.
If you lurp on the wrong side of that river, the witch man points the ancient bone at you and from then on, you belong no no one and nothing and all you possess is like a swirl of sand beneath the moon and you are free only to realize your life has been but a tool for darkness, death and horror.

[82_28]

Nordic.

I know you have voiced a wish to spend a bit less time on the board, but do you actually want to be suspended?

Please quit directing the motherfucking shitty obscenities at goddamn menbers of the forum.

It's the fucking rules. A quantum of civility, you know?

sir yes sir.

It's okay to be a genocidal racist warmongering troll, but heaven forbid I should use a few naughty words.

But okay, done.

17 was trolling and flaming this board and I can see where Nordic acquired his frustration. I wasn't gonna go there myself, but many I think here wanted to. Look at Nordic's rant as the final explosion of a supernova. 17 was getting more and more caustic as the days wore on. We all know Nordic can be caustic too -- as can we all. We had the only successful planetary Top Kill of the day! We should be proud of this RIkkies.

And if 17 comes back, let me say, that racism, flaming nor trolling is appreciated here. I don't care what side of the fence you are on. Engage in discussion or don't at all.

the fun thing with a potential troll is to nearly force them to talk and defend their position, it takes a lot of tact, but i think I got a fair, real response out of him once or twice. I don't think he was some pro-troll but I do think it wasn't quite working out. I also am a little disappointed in the vitriol he engendered. don't let him play scape goat like that. and we''re really so much better than that. or w(sh)ould be.

(I freely admit I've emitted flame and bullshit from time to time and am far from perfect. thanks for any toleration )

True. He was nice to me in a PM at one point. And he never attacked me personally. This is why I will welcome him back in a week if he so decides. I don't mind any sort of thought process. I just think he stepped over the line when he became caustic to certain members for shit I really didn't see being caustic over. Plus I didn't get his one liners seemingly filled with a strange rage.

[Nordic]

He was a troll from the get-go and there was no reason for him to be here whatsoever. He had no interest in joining any conversation here other than those places where he was trolling.

I have no patience for subhumans like that anymore. None.

Which is why this is the only place I post to now. I'm done with idiots and trolls. They can all go swim in our brand new Gulf of Oil and die with the sharks.

[82_28]

He was a troll from the get-go and there was no reason for him to be here whatsoever. He had no interest in joining any conversation here other than those places where he was trolling.

I have no patience for subhumans like that anymore. None.

Which is why this is the only place I post to now. I'm done with idiots and trolls. They can all go swim in our brand new Gulf of Oil and die with the sharks.

True as well. Only racial hot topics did you ever see him show up.

[norton ash]

17Breezes used to really bug me, but now I find him a brief, oddball interruption to what are generally reasonable discussions... easy to ignore, and an occasional source of humour when he makes a total ass of himself.

The monomaniac at the end of the bar you learn to tolerate and tune out.

[Nordic]

The monomaniac at the end of the bar you learn to tolerate and tune out.

See, I can't, and won't, tune them out. I mean, I'd leave the bar and go somewhere else, or else I'd get into an altercation.

When it's happening at a dinner party, it's just intolerable. And I consider this place an ongoing dinner party I suppose.