Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Postby cptmarginal » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:50 pm

might as well plug this again, it's certainly crucial to understanding...

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/


Somewhat off-topic, but I thought this article points out some aspects which are good to keep in mind as well. Especially regarding why the "Tea Party" model can be influential to other countries.

(the original article was deleted, this has the text)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-blo ... 1379/posts

Will vote fraud emerge as a tea party cause? Maybe, maybe not. Meckler, the closest thing the movement has to an organizational visionary, meant what he said. No one gives orders: In the expansive dominion of the Tea Party Patriots, which extends to thousands of local groups and literally countless activists, people just do stuff, talk to each other, imitate success, and move the movement.

"Essentially what we're doing is crowd-sourcing," says Meckler, whose vocabulary betrays his background as a lawyer specializing in Internet law. "I use the term open-source politics. This is an open-source movement." Every day, anyone and everyone is modifying the code. "The movement as a whole is smart."

Can it work? In American politics, radical decentralization has never been tried on so large a scale. Tea party activists believe that their hivelike, "organized but not organized" (as one calls it) structure is their signal innovation and secret weapon, the key to outlasting and outmaneuvering traditional political organizations and interest groups. They intend to rewrite the rule book for political organizing, turning decades of established practice upside down. If they succeed, or even half succeed, the tea party's most important legacy may be organizational, not political.

[...]

Strange though it may seem, this is a coordinated network, not a hierarchy. There is no chain of command. No group or person is subordinate to any other. The tea parties are jealously independent and suspicious of any efforts at central control, which they see as a sure path to domination by outside interests. "There's such a uniqueness to every one of these groups, just as there's an individuality to every person," Wildman says. "It has this bizarre organic flow, a little bit like lava. It heats up in some places and catches on fire; it moves more slowly in other places."

Lava is a pretty good analogy. Ask the activists to characterize their organizational structure, however, and usually they will say it is a starfish.

Look, Ma, No Head

The Starfish and the Spider, a business book by Ori Brafman and Rod A. Beckstrom, was published in 2006 to no attention at all in the political world. The subtitle, however, explains its relevance to the tea party model: The Unstoppable Power of Leaderless Organizations.

Traditional thinking, the book contends, holds that hierarchies are most efficient at getting things done. Hierarchies, such as corporations, have leaders who can make decisions and set priorities; chains of command to hold everyone accountable; mechanisms to shift money and authority within the organization; rules and disciplinary procedures to prevent fracture and drift. This type of system has a central command, like a spider's brain. Like the spider, it dies if you thump it on the head.

The rise of the Internet and other forms of instantaneous, interpersonal interaction, however, has broken the spider monopoly, Brafman and Beckstrom argue. Radically decentralized networks -- everything from illicit music-sharing systems to Wikipedia -- can direct resources and adapt ("mutate") far faster than corporations can. "The absence of structure, leadership, and formal organization, once considered a weakness, has become a major asset," the authors write. "Seemingly chaotic groups have challenged and defeated established institutions. The rules of the game have changed."

Moreover, hierarchies are at a loss to defeat networks. Open systems have no leader or headquarters; their units are self-funding, and their members often work for free (think Wikipedia). Even in principle, you can't count or compartmentalize the participants, because they come and go as they please -- but counting them is unnecessary, because they can communicate directly with each other. Knowledge and power are distributed throughout the system.

As a result, the network is impervious to decapitation. "If you thump it on the head, it survives." No foolish or self-serving boss can wreck it, because it has no boss. Fragmentation, the bane of traditional organizations, actually makes the network stronger. It is like a starfish: Cut off an arm, and it grows (in some species) into a new starfish. Result: two starfish, where before there was just one.

"We're a starfish organization," says Scott Boston, the Tea Party Patriots' educational coordinator, and a rare paid staffer. He started a tea party group in Bowling Green, Ohio, but then let it slide when he went to school. Filling the gap, another group popped up; now there are two. Groups fuse as well as split. In Dallas, Emanuelson says, if a coordinator burns out, "sometimes another coordinator picks up the reins, but if not, a group can get involved with a nearby group." No one else even needs to know about it.

From Washington's who's-in-charge-here perspective, the tea party model seems, to use Wildman's word, bizarre. Perplexed journalists keep looking for the movement's leaders, which is like asking to meet the boss of the Internet. Baffled politicians and lobbyists can't find anyone to negotiate with. "We can be hard to work with, because we're confusing," Meckler acknowledges. "We're constantly fighting against the traditional societal pressure to become a top-down organization."

[...]

"There have been many efforts to create decentralized movements before," says Francesca Polletta, a sociologist at the University of California (Irvine) and a student of political movements. Those efforts, however, have been smaller in scale than the tea party. And, ironically, they have typically been offshoots of the political Left. (Structurally speaking, you could do worse than to think of the Tea Party Patriots as a left-wing organization with a right-wing, or at least libertarian, ideology.)

[...]

Not coincidentally, the educational coordinator is among the Tea Party Patriots' handful of paid employees. "Our real mission," says Sally Oljar, a national coordinator, "is education and providing resources to grassroots activists who want to return the country to our founding principles. We recognize that's going to require a cultural change that will take many years to accomplish."

Many years? How many? "We have a 40-year plan," Meckler says. "We don't want to raise another generation of sheeple."

One hears again, there, echoes of leftist movements. Raise consciousness. Change hearts, not just votes. Attack corruption in society, not just on Capitol Hill. In America, right-wing movements have tended to focus on taking over politics, left-wing ones on changing the culture. Like its leftist precursors, the Tea Party Patriots thinks of itself as a social movement, not a political one.

Centerless swarms are bad at transactional politics. But they may be pretty good at cultural reform. In any case, the experiment begins.


See also:
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/glo ... works.html
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/glo ... ation.html

"MEND, Tea Party, 4Chan, Wikileaks, al Qaeda, Linux, etc."

(Chinese restaurant model vs. McDonald's model)

...

I take any statement about the "Tea Party" sticking around with a huge grain of salt (as soon as a Republican president comes around and the MSM changes it's tune again they'll go *poof*) - but this:

"the tea party's most important legacy may be organizational, not political."

...can also be applied to the Obama campaign machine's fancy tactics of network-creation, and disregard of the classic "Democratic machine". Think tanks are coming up with this stuff, trying to keep up with the effects of the internet and cell phones. What creepy assholes.
The new way of thinking is precisely delineated by what it is not.
cptmarginal
 
Posts: 2741
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: Gordita Beach
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Postby Luther Blissett » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:31 pm

justdrew wrote:how about we just take over by destroying their leaders and rubbing their faces symbolically in the dirt over and over again until they are all completely broken and recognize US as their strong daddies?

they WILL be lead, the only question is, by who?


That sounds scary.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4994
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Postby justdrew » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:50 pm

Luther Blissett wrote:
justdrew wrote:how about we just take over by destroying their leaders and rubbing their faces symbolically in the dirt over and over again until they are all completely broken and recognize US as their strong daddies?

they WILL be lead, the only question is, by who?


That sounds scary.


yes yes it does. you may recognize the tactic from being politically on the receiving end.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Postby psynapz » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:59 pm

justdrew wrote:they WILL be lead, the only question is, by who?

Christ, what about the Evangelicals?
“blunting the idealism of youth is a national security project” - Hugh Manatee Wins
User avatar
psynapz
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:01 pm
Location: In the Flow, In the Now, Forever
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Postby Luther Blissett » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:02 pm

justdrew wrote:
Luther Blissett wrote:
justdrew wrote:how about we just take over by destroying their leaders and rubbing their faces symbolically in the dirt over and over again until they are all completely broken and recognize US as their strong daddies?

they WILL be lead, the only question is, by who?


That sounds scary.


yes yes it does. you may recognize the tactic from being politically on the receiving end.


Haha. Yes. That being said, I think that given our current technology, Democratic Socialism (i.e. pure democracy) is becoming more and more feasible. However, that is the hardest sell in the world.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4994
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Postby justdrew » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:14 pm

psynapz wrote:
justdrew wrote:they WILL be lead, the only question is, by who?

Christ, what about the Evangelicals?


Reverend Billy of the Church of Stop Shopping will be their new leader.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Postby justdrew » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:18 pm

Luther Blissett wrote:
justdrew wrote:
Luther Blissett wrote:
justdrew wrote:how about we just take over by destroying their leaders and rubbing their faces symbolically in the dirt over and over again until they are all completely broken and recognize US as their strong daddies?

they WILL be lead, the only question is, by who?


That sounds scary.


yes yes it does. you may recognize the tactic from being politically on the receiving end.


Haha. Yes. That being said, I think that given our current technology, Democratic Socialism (i.e. pure democracy) is becoming more and more feasible. However, that is the hardest sell in the world.


is pure democracy desirable though? As it stands there are many counties and maybe states that would be happy to vote in favor of all kinds of crazy things and a uncontrolled demagogue can still lead a crowd to vote as he wants.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:04 pm

cptmarginal wrote:...can also be applied to the Obama campaign machine's fancy tactics of network-creation, and disregard of the classic "Democratic machine". Think tanks are coming up with this stuff, trying to keep up with the effects of the internet and cell phones. What creepy assholes.


The medium sans messages is what they're interested in. Done work for a few of these types -- I'd say they're amoral more than creepy assholes but I'm kinda amoral myself and thus probably a creepy asshole. Tell you what, though, having worked traditional politics gigs, too, the normal "Party Machine" system is thunderfuck retarded, all they do is irritate people and repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot. The situation the Democratic Party is dealing with in Illinois right now with their absentee ballot fiasco is...well, it's very lucrative for those of us getting paid by the hour, so fuck it.

Now that I think about it, maybe everyone else in the machine is just like me: totally non-committed to their party and their leaders, only concerned about their paychecks, and utterly cynical about the entire process.
User avatar
Wombaticus Rex
 
Posts: 10896
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Vermontistan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Postby 82_28 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:14 pm

Why is it only the fascists get away with this shit? Us? The only peace loving, social solution making provocateurs there are, would get our asses summarily kicked for lending a helping hand. God help us if we went there and handed out flowers. Why, in the face of uncertainty and fear, the only answer the fully funded and corporate controlled right can come up with is darkness, fear and death?

Helping, thinking, creating, loving, truthfulness, sharing are all fucking illegal! This place is ripe for this shit to hit the fan very, very soon.

They get their cake and they get to eat it too. Peace protests? Insert provocateurs, police, robocops, military tactics, violent, seething counter "protesters", vandalism, intimidation, horses, SWAT tanks, etc etc etc. Have a decent caring canditate for office? Summarily destroyed in the media. Over and over and over. . .


It was after the catastrophe, when they shot the president and machine-gunned the Congress and blamed it on the Islamic fanatics, at the time.
Keep calm, they said on television. Everything is under control.
I was stunned. Everyone was, I know that. It was hard to believe. The entire government, gone like that. How did they get in, how did it happen?
That was when they suspended the Constitution. They said it would be temporary. There wasn't even any rioting in the streets. People stayed home at night, watching television, looking for some direction. There wasn't even an enemy you could put your finger on.
Look out, said Moira to me, over the phone. Here it comes.
Here what comes? I said.
You wait, she said. They've been building up to this. It's you and me up against the wall, baby. She was quoting an expression of my mother's, but she wasn't intending to be funny.


~Handmaid's Tale
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Postby cptmarginal » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:54 pm

Wombaticus Rex wrote:
cptmarginal wrote:...can also be applied to the Obama campaign machine's fancy tactics of network-creation, and disregard of the classic "Democratic machine". Think tanks are coming up with this stuff, trying to keep up with the effects of the internet and cell phones. What creepy assholes.


The medium sans messages is what they're interested in. Done work for a few of these types -- I'd say they're amoral more than creepy assholes but I'm kinda amoral myself and thus probably a creepy asshole. Tell you what, though, having worked traditional politics gigs, too, the normal "Party Machine" system is thunderfuck retarded, all they do is irritate people and repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot. The situation the Democratic Party is dealing with in Illinois right now with their absentee ballot fiasco is...well, it's very lucrative for those of us getting paid by the hour, so fuck it.

Now that I think about it, maybe everyone else in the machine is just like me: totally non-committed to their party and their leaders, only concerned about their paychecks, and utterly cynical about the entire process.


Maybe the interest in "medium sans messages" is exactly why I, having 100% ignored the content of Tea Party stuff and having refused to engage on the topic, still have an OK grasp on what's going on.

I almost typed "amoral", but decided to go further because I was really trying to refer to the people who come up with the idea of this stuff. The people who actually might have the power to shift the American situation somewhere more desirable for everyone while maintaining corporate control, but are instead going to great lengths to manufacture psy-war political movements that try to force ugliness. Seems to me that the people who are directly coming up with these ideas might just have an overlap with people who want to, y'know, fuck kids or dangerously experiment on people.

But I definitely have a hazy understanding of where the people who, for example, came up with the dynamic of "Democrat president -> activate militias" intersect with the people who are doing the work of actualizing things on capitalism's end-user level. And whether those people working in the machine possibly even are the ones coming up with the partially-decentralized organizational strategies I posted about. I don't really know. I just vaguely guess that some sort of think tanks are coming up with this stuff, they're a suitably all-purpose sinister villain for me, haha. And they seem like the types who would both want to be ahead of the "starfish vs. spider" curve and possibly be in bed with the devil.

And thanks for the reminder in your last sentence; sometimes it's easy to forget to what extent a lot of crazy shit just gets done in a basically robotic fashion by basically cool people (what extent? almost entirely).

"thunderfuck", haha
The new way of thinking is precisely delineated by what it is not.
cptmarginal
 
Posts: 2741
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: Gordita Beach
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Postby Montag » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:58 pm

Luther Blissett wrote:
Haha. Yes. That being said, I think that given our current technology, Democratic Socialism (i.e. pure democracy) is becoming more and more feasible. However, that is the hardest sell in the world.


Yes, I've been thinking a lot about socialism from above lately... Maybe it's time to dust off those copies of Mao's political pamphlets.
User avatar
Montag
 
Posts: 1259
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:32 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Postby Montag » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:08 pm

I was of course joking in the previous comment... It's just when you see a certain kind of "populism" flourishing, you begin to wonder what options may have been taken off the table.
User avatar
Montag
 
Posts: 1259
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:32 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

McDonald’s ‘intimidated’ workers into voting GOP

Postby Allegro » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:14 am

.
Democrats: McDonald’s ‘intimidated’ workers into voting GOP
The Raw Story
By Daniel Tencer | Saturday, October 30th, 2010 | 7:23 pm

    Officials in the Democratic Party in Ohio are calling on officials to investigate the owner of McDonald's restaurants in the state over what they say is an attempt to "intimidate" employees into voting Republican.

    Employees at as many as 12 McDonald's restaurants received a letter with their most recent paycheck urging them to vote for Republican candidates, or else future paychecks would be in jeopardy.

    "If the right people are elected, we will be able to continue with raises and benefits at or above our present levels," said the letter, as quoted at the Cleveland Plain Dealer. "If others are elected, we will not."

    The letter was written on McDonald's stationery and included a pamphlet promoting Ohio Republican candidates John Kasich (for governor), Rob Portman (for Senate) and Jim Renacci, who's running for a House seat.

    Ohio Democratic Party chairman Chris Redfern has asked county and federal prosecutors to investigate the letter, AP reports.

More on the story.
Art will be the last bastion when all else fades away.
~ Timothy White (b 1952), American rock music journalist
_________________
User avatar
Allegro
 
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:44 pm
Location: just right of Orion
Blog: View Blog (144)

Re: Tea Party Counterpart Message Boards?

Postby nathan28 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:31 am

cptmarginal wrote:I almost typed "amoral", but decided to go further because I was really trying to refer to the people who come up with the idea of this stuff. The people who actually might have the power to shift the American situation somewhere more desirable for everyone while maintaining corporate control, but are instead going to great lengths to manufacture psy-war political movements that try to force ugliness. Seems to me that the people who are directly coming up with these ideas might just have an overlap with people who want to, y'know, fuck kids or dangerously experiment on people.

But I definitely have a hazy understanding of where the people who, for example, came up with the dynamic of "Democrat president -> activate militias" intersect with the people who are doing the work of actualizing things on capitalism's end-user level. And whether those people working in the machine possibly even are the ones coming up with the partially-decentralized organizational strategies I posted about. I don't really know. I just vaguely guess that some sort of think tanks are coming up with this stuff, they're a suitably all-purpose sinister villain for me, haha. And they seem like the types who would both want to be ahead of the "starfish vs. spider" curve and possibly be in bed with the devil.



I'm not sure I understand this. In the case of the Tea Party there quite clearly is centralized funding on the one hand, and a few centralized, if not centrally-controlled, message distribution methods, and a few central, reputable outlets on the second and third hands. To wit, FreedomWorks (Kock [sic] family), TalkingPointsMemo & similar outlets like far right radio and the right-leaning mass media operations particularly CNBC and Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal. IOW, the infrastructure has been in place pre-Tea Party and was in action pre-Tea Party largely doing something similar. Is the Tea Party an "intensification," to use a academic term, of all that? Sure, but it's not a disjunction and I would be deeply wary of disregarding the vehicles that introduced it and by which it still travels. What this means to me is that the strategizing is at least in part attributable to discrete organizations and individuals that are not all that invisible.

That's not to say that there isn't anything nefarious going on. H.L. Hunt sponsored both the John Birchers and the Nation of Islam at the same time, which all but proves he was running what was *at least* his own private strategy of tension and it's hard to imagine there aren't billionaries pulling that crap right now. Likewise the Obama administration's Bush-like commitment to opaque government--realizing that all party politics are opaque but Obama didn't just put up black-out curtains, considering how the press seems to have stopped prying into his continuation of Bush-era policies we may as well be in Gitmo sensory deprivation--suggests that there are many, many "unknown unknowns" here, more than just your typical political campaign dirty tricks. Consider, e.g., the simple fact that the TP runs, literally, anti-masturbation candidates and has groups that curb-stomp people; I bet some Dem strategists see this as a means to spin the mouthbreathing retardofascist vote out of Repub hands and drive away "centrists" on the other, which would dovetail with the Dem strategy of trying to become the Center-Right (liberal on social issues!) "Party of Sanity".

But I'm not going that far with the Tea Party yet. This guy who stomped that one woman on the ground is getting hit with possible first-degree charges for a premeditated act--but that doesn't mean his premeditation had anything but a couple minutes behind it. Having been an asshole that's started shit with people before for the hell of it, I can see that.

Of course, I could be all wrong and I realize much of what I've written here isn't clear. I am literally speculating about possible speculations. What I mean to say is that regardless of how foggy it all is there's still clear institutions and individuals involved here.
„MAN MUSS BEFUERCHTEN, DASS DAS GANZE IN GOTTES HAND IST"

THE JEERLEADER
User avatar
nathan28
 
Posts: 2957
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Previous

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 51 guests