Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:47 pm

No_Baseline wrote:
Loyalty to the Democratic Party — in spite of decades of selling its supporters down the river — has helped bring about the terrible situation being faced today.

Those Democrats who are doing the right thing should themselves be praised — but the party itself should be viciously excoriated for its multitudinous betrayals of its loyal supporters.


Yeesss.

And Jack, I always read your posts with interest and the utmost respect.

But here the Dems are still not espousing what they stand for, or even against. If they had shown up in the rotunda and stood with the protesters, the message would have been clear.

What exactly is their message by fleeing... obviously they are disagreeing, but with what exactly? Why are we left still trying to suss out the meaning when 25,000 protestors are making it perfectly clear?




you still don't get it, they had to leave or be forced to vote and then the legislation would pass, period. It was the only alternative or let the unions lose collective bargaining

If you don't know that by now you are not paying attention or just watching Fox News
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby Simulist » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:53 pm

The Wisconsin Democrats are doing the right thing by remaining absent, and thereby not permitting a vote. Were they to do otherwise, the legislation would pass.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby NeonLX » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:55 pm

Mallard wrote:I wish I was there. Seems to me that they should have enough signatures there to start the recall. I'm sure thats going on, it must be.


I am there. It's invigorating, if nothing else. I've felt a sense of power that I haven't experienced in decades. Being around so many people who finally seem to have awakened is a big boost.

Tomorrow, the teabaggers are organizing a counter-protest. I'm old (and very tired), but I hope to be able to perform some serious confrontation.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby eyeno » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:33 pm

But here the Dems are still not espousing what they stand for, or even against. If they had shown up in the rotunda and stood with the protesters, the message would have been clear.

What exactly is their message by fleeing... obviously they are disagreeing, but with what exactly? Why are we left still trying to suss out the meaning when 25,000 protestors are making it perfectly clear?




Amen. They have a voice. They did not use it. Chicken shit. "keep my job, nothing else matters"




You still don't get it, they had to leave or be forced to vote and then the legislation would pass, period. It was the only alternative or let the unions lose collective bargaining

If you don't know that by now you are not paying attention or just watching Fox News




Amen. But they should have SPOKEN THEIR INTENTIONS. They did not. They are waitng on the wind to blow. So for now, I am in the "fuck em" camp. They have a voice. They should use it.
(with you in spirit though, most assuredly)


I support the runaway. If nothing else it stalls the vote. The motive for doing so however, remains questionable in my mind.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:39 pm

eyeno wrote:Amen. But they should have SPOKEN THEIR INTENTIONS. They did not. They are waitng on the wind to blow. So for now, I am in the "fuck em" camp. They have a voice. They should use it.
(with you in spirit though, most assuredly)

I support the runaway. If nothing else it stalls the vote. The motive for doing so however, remains questionable in my mind.



Sorry, you're only showing that you may not be paying very close attention. A number of the Wisconsin senate runaways today HAVE been clearly stating their positions in radio and TV interviews (from undisclosed locations outside Wisconsin). They have said clearly it's to prevent a vote to end collective bargaining.

I don't understand why on the third or fourth clarification about this you are still, out of all the things that one might say about Wisconsin, choosing to attack the politicians who, for a change, are doing the right thing. They are not "running away" -- they are blocking a quorum, and announcing why. Maybe you are watching FOXNEWS only?

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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby crikkett » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:22 pm

NeonLX wrote:
Mallard wrote:I wish I was there. Seems to me that they should have enough signatures there to start the recall. I'm sure thats going on, it must be.


I am there. It's invigorating, if nothing else. I've felt a sense of power that I haven't experienced in decades. Being around so many people who finally seem to have awakened is a big boost.

Tomorrow, the teabaggers are organizing a counter-protest. I'm old (and very tired), but I hope to be able to perform some serious confrontation.


Bravo!!
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby 23 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:25 pm

I suspect that it may have something to do with the prevailing corporatist media's use of the terms "fled", "ran from", etc. when discussing this news item.

I prefer to use another descriptor like "boycotting" or "striking" instead.

My solidarity eyes are seeing this as a strike action.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:44 pm

eyeno, surely you've head the expression "Actions speak louder than words?"

This is one of those occasions.

Sometimes winning the war requires a retreat from the battle.

You're barking up the wrong tree for wrong reasons.

The governor by his actions has returned us to a time 35 years ago in order to complete that unfinished Republican effort to dissolve the long recognized right of workers to organize. He is no friend of the working class.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby Simulist » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:48 pm

23 wrote:I suspect that it may have something to do with the prevailing corporatist media's use of the terms "fled", "ran from", etc. when discussing this news item.

I prefer to use another descriptor like "boycotting" or "striking" instead.

My solidarity eyes are seeing this as a strike action.

I think you're right about that, 23.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:13 pm

23 wrote:I suspect that it may have something to do with the prevailing corporatist media's use of the terms "fled", "ran from", etc. when discussing this news item.

I prefer to use another descriptor like "boycotting" or "striking" instead.

My solidarity eyes are seeing this as a strike action.



STRIKE
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Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:29 pm

Class Warfare in Wisconsin: 10 Things You Should Know
posted by Josh Healey on Feb 17
Image
For most of the last decade, I lived in the crazy, cold, contradictory state that is Wisconsin. I wrote research papers in Madison, performed poems in Milwaukee, walked picket lines in Jefferson, organized student conferences in Eau Claire, led artistic workshops in Green Bay, spoke at my roommate’s wedding in Merrill, and went camping with my future wife at Black River Falls.
A big-city kid from the East Coast, I never fully got used to the overwhelming whiteness of Wisconsin — the winter, and yes, the people. But I eventually learned how to wear five layers in February, and that amidst the farms and abandoned factories, there was a working-class people with a strong populist ethic. As my freshman roommate from Wausau once told me, “Josh, I don’t follow politics. I just hate corporations.”
Fast-forward to 2011: the new Republican Governor, Scott Walker, has declared war on my old roommate and all Wisconsin workers. Under the guise of a budget deficit, Walker just put forth a bill that would destroy the unions that represent teachers, social workers, and over 100,000 public employees. He’s also making huge cuts to schools, health care, public transportation, and anything that actually helps people live.
Want more crazy? Walker ordered the National Guard to get ready to respond to a strike or any resistance to his plan. The last time Wisconsin called in the National Guard during a labor dispute was way back in 1886, when Guard militiamen shot on a rally of Milwaukee workers advocating an 8-hour work day. Five unarmed workers were killed in the massacre.
I loved living in Wisconsin. Truth be told, I hated it many times too, especially when its ugly side came out like now. I was fighting this same struggle during most of my junior and senior years at UW. Our campaign demands were nothing new: lower tuition for students, better health care for workers, higher taxes on the rich, and a real investment in public education over private incarceration. That was with Jim Doyle in office. But now with this dude Walker, it’s at a whole new level.
Of course, the people aren’t going down without a fight. There have been unprecedented demonstrations at the state Capitol in Madison every day this week — from 1,000 the first day to over 25,000 yesterday.
I wish I could be out there on State Street with my Badgers in the struggle, but at the very least, I can do my best to spread the word. So for all my old students and roommates taking to the streets, and for everyone else wondering what the hell is going on in America’s Dairyland, let’s clear some things up:
1. The deficit is a made-up crisis.
Like most states, Wisconsin is struggling in the recession, but the state government isn’t actually broke. The state legislature’s fiscal bureau estimated the state would end the year with a $121 million balance. Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit — but it is not because of an increase in worker wages or benefits. According to the Capital Times, it is because “Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for corporate and special-interest groups in January.” Nice. A man-made “crisis” as an excuse to push neoliberal cutbacks: Shock Doctrine, anyone?
2. Even if there was a deficit, blame Wall Street — not the workers.
The economy isn’t crumbling because state workers in Madison have decent pensions. It’s because Wall Street bankers stole our money, Bush and now Obama have us in two trillion-dollar wars, and states like Wisconsin keep spending more on prisons than schools. What do the rich pay? According to the Wisconsin Department of Revenue, corporate tax income has fallen by half since 1981 and over two-thirds of Wisconsin corporations pay zero taxes.
3. The Green Bay Packers are with the people.
They won the Super Bowl. They’re owned by the people of Green Bay, not some schmuck billionaire. And now the Pack is standing in solidarity with their union brothers and sisters. If only Brady Poppinga (pictured below) would tackle Scott Walker like that. If the green and gold are down, you already know what side to roll with. (I heard Walker is a Vikings fan, anyway.)

4. This is not “just another Madison protest.”
Madison is famous for its progressive tradition, but this is more than just another march down State Street. This struggle is engaging people across the state — not just Madison and Milwaukee, but LaCrosse, Eau Claire, and outside Gov. Walker’s home in Wauwatosa. This struggle is multi-racial, multi-generational, and multi-issue. Working- and middle-class white folks (the majority population) might finally realize that long-term unity is stronger than short-term tax relief. Looking for the progressive antidote to the Tea Party? They’re brewing something in the Badger State.
5. Public worker unions were founded in Wisconsin.
The first union for public employees was actually started in Madison in 1932, to ensure living wages for the workers and end political patronage for government jobs. The biggest public union, AFSCME, was born right where the protests are happening today in Madison. Wisconsin has always had a dual legacy — home to the last Socialist mayor in the country (Frank Zeidler of Milwaukee) and the ultimate anti-Communist himself, Joe McCarthy; more recently, both progressive Sen. Russ Feingold and immigrant-basher Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner — but the Dairyland’s populist ethos can be traced back to the Progressive Era and its public unions.
6. Hurting public workers will not help you get a better job.
Many conservatives, and even some liberals, argue that we need to “bring public workers’ benefits down to the level of private workers.” First off, it’s not true that public workers are better off — they usually get lower wages in exchange for better benefits. More important, though, is the idea that we should raise all boats, rather than continue this race to the bottom. Russ Feingold said yesterday that “Republicans are trying to pit private workers against their public counterparts.” No more divide and conquer. Yes, people with a private-sector job (or, people who like 50% of black men in Milwaukee don’t have a job at all) have a right to be angry: but that anger should be reserved for the companies who are downsizing and outsourcing those jobs, not for middle school teachers and the lunch lady.
7. This is about more than unions.
This is about public education, affirmative action, immigrant rights, stopping foreclosures, and basic human rights. This is about how much the Radical Right thinks they can get away with. This is about drawing a line in the sand — if first they come for the unions, who will they come for next?
8. The country is watching Wisconsin.
What happens this week in Madison has national ramifications. Right now, everyone’s eyes are on Wisconsin. The governor of Ohio and Tennessee are threatening to adopt similar legislation — and Obama has his own conservative budget proposal at the federal level. If they can force it through relatively liberal Wisconsin, your state could be next.
9. Wisconsin was watching Egypt.
News travels fast, and uprisings inspire each other across continents. The protesters out on the Madison streets watched the millions of Egyptians who successfully, nonviolently took down their dictator. Many of them are now carrying signs like the one below calling Scott Walker “the Mubarak of the Midwest.” And while the American media loves the union workers that toppled a dictator in Egypt, CNN has little sympathy for the workers that will be silenced right here in the heartland.

10. Who’s Capitol? OUR Capitol!
This is our moment. Our state. Our growing movement to change the course of the country. The legislature could vote as soon as today on Walker’s bill — unless the real Badgers stand up to stop him.
The protests are escalating every day, inside and outside the Capitol. To all my Madison folks, stay strong and know that we’re with you. To the rest of the country, spread the word, donate to the legal defense funds, and make sure your own states don’t go down this same road.
For resources and up-to-date info on what’s happening on the ground, check out:
AFT-Wisconsin
Wisconsin Wave
Teaching Assistants’ Association
Student Labor Action Coalition
On, Wisconsin! Solidarity Forever!
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby 2012 Countdown » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:41 am

Postcard from Egypt (To Wisconsin Workers)

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Image

Image

===

Muhammad Saladin Nusair is the sign maker/holder


http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=6 ... =7006456...

http://twitter.com/M_Nusair
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby 23 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:52 am



This was a very helpful read. Thanks.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby 23 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:31 am

Simulist wrote:
23 wrote:I suspect that it may have something to do with the prevailing corporatist media's use of the terms "fled", "ran from", etc. when discussing this news item.

I prefer to use another descriptor like "boycotting" or "striking" instead.

My solidarity eyes are seeing this as a strike action.

I think you're right about that, 23.


Here's one example (below) amongst many similar ones. The headline contains the derogatory spin, of course. But four paragraphs down into the article, the "b" word is more accurately applied.

I guess the paper is convinced that its readers can be easily manipulated to translate boycotting to mean running and hiding.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/116434554.html
The Dems' tantrum
In a snit, Senate Democrats run and hide - making a mockery of the democratic process.
(excerpted)

In a snit, Senate Democrats run and hide - making a mockery of the democratic process.[/b]

Democrats in the state Senate threw a temper tantrum Thursday - essentially they took their ball and went home.

Actually, they didn't go home. They apparently went to Illinois, just out of reach of their obligations.

By boycotting an expected vote on Gov. Scott Walker's budget repair bill, they were able to prevent action on the measure. Twenty senators are required for a quorum; the Republicans have only 19.
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Re: Thousands fill the Capitol rotunda in Madison, Wis.

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:50 am

.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to why some are equating the actions [or is it 'non-actions'] of the WI Democrats with the actions of the Democratic Party as a whole..

Absolutely, the WI Democrats should be commended for not showing up to vote -- if indeed we are to accept their collective decision at face value, and not part of a larger agenda/plan that may not be clear right now but would ultimately be to the detriment of the WI citizenry, and/or perhaps, the Citizenry en masse -- but to suggest we should curtail any criticisms of the Democratic party due to the recent actions of a subset of individuals within said Party is ludicrous.

The "Democratic Party" has been partially complicit in the farce/theatre otherwise known as American Politics since its inception, and with few exceptions throughout our govt's history, each member has been as guilty in tarnishing whatever ideals our government was allegedly founded upon as any member of the Republican Party. As quite a few of us have alluded in prior postings, any distinction between the 2 Parties are ultimately cosmetic and/or illusory; they are part of a whole.

"God Bless" those WI Dems, if indeed their intentions are honest; F U C K the system otherwise.
Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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